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  #201  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:31 AM
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Australia win the toss - they're batting.
  #202  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:33 AM
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Well, I'd back at least Warner and Khawaja to add themselves to that list before the series is out.
If Aust consistently post first innings 300 totals, which I rank as the benchmark, it will be because the lesser knowns Bancroft, Head, Wade who make the runs.
  #203  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:33 AM
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Australia confirmed as:

1 David Warner, 2 Cameron Bancroft, 3 Usman Khawaja, 4 Steve Smith, 5 Travis Head, 6 Matthew Wade, 7 Tim Paine (capt & wk), 8 Pat Cummins, 9 James Pattinson, 10 Nathan Lyon, 11 Peter Siddle.
  #204  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:42 AM
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Apart from Bancroft, that’s as solid a line up
  #205  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:08 AM
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England could have just had Warner caught down the leg side on 0 - spike on UltraEdge, not reviewed.

Watch him get a ton now.
  #206  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:18 AM
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England could have just had Warner caught down the leg side on 0 - spike on UltraEdge, not reviewed.

Watch him get a ton now.
And now England burn a review on an lbw shout missing high. Classic.

Still the good news is we'll be treated to yet another symposium on the morality of walking in the professional game, which will no doubt be as edifying as they all are.

.... Or not! Out this time.

Last edited by Stanislaus; 08-01-2019 at 05:20 AM.
  #207  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:19 AM
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Then double down with a crap review for LBW.
Don’t these guys look at the track record?

Then they get him LBW, pretty plumb
  #208  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:25 AM
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... then maybe not.

Warner has been standing well forward, even got told by umps to move back.
So I underestimated how far down leg it was tracking.

If he’d reviewed he it would have been overturned.

Call it 1 all
  #209  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:25 AM
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Apparently it was missing leg! So justice served, sort of.
  #210  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:26 AM
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Watch him get a ton now.
That sort of stuff doesn't normally work. Don't use them up all at once .
  #211  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:30 AM
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That sort of stuff doesn't normally work. Don't use them up all at once .
We should keep score:

Warner, b. Cumbrian (2). Failed to spot the wrong 'un.
  #212  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:30 AM
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On the walking thing, I've never played the game properly, but I can easily imagine situations where the batsman themselves is unsure if they clipped pad or ball with their bat. And for those very, very fine snicks, I can also believe you might not be sure if you even felt something through your gloves. So I've got no problem with batsmen of any stripe not walking in such situations. I mean, it's not uncommon for batsmen to burn an lbw review when they think they've edged it, but haven't, right?

On the other hand, clearly edging it and then standing there hoping the camera angles on a catch low to the ground will be inconclusive (when on the field it looks out) is borderline cheating.
  #213  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:39 AM
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Call it 1 all
Yeah, two not great decisions this morning - 1-1.
  #214  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:39 AM
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Bancroft nicks off to Broad.
Routine dismissal 2-17
  #215  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:40 AM
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England's lbw review was bloody awful. He's in the crease, it's hit him above the knee roll and he's on his toes. What suggests that this is going to hit the wicket? Dumb.

Last edited by Cumbrian; 08-01-2019 at 05:40 AM.
  #216  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:54 AM
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My view is that reviews of LBW, unless the batsman knows he’s got an inside edge, are an exercise in futility. Umpires aren’t making howlers and they don’t get many borderline ones wrong.

My view of plain dumb reviews like that one is the match referee should fine the captains match payment and have him give it (personally and in cash) to the presiding umpire.
  #217  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:00 AM
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On the other hand, clearly edging it and then standing there hoping the camera angles on a catch low to the ground will be inconclusive (when on the field it looks out) is borderline cheating.
As an umpire and a cricketer who did once walk when given not out, pretty much as you describe, I don't think most players would see it that way. Most players would feel that the fielding side is never going to change their mind when you get a bad decision - they won't invite you back to bat on. So why give them the edge when you get one that goes your way. the attitude is just accept the umpire's decision and get on with the game.

On the occasion that I walked the umpire thought a catch to a diving gully fieldsman hadn't carried but I knew that it had. It was such an awesome catch I didn't have the heart to rob the fieldsman of it. Mind you I was only playing club cricket in a meaningless game that I can't recall who won.
  #218  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:07 AM
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My view is that reviews of LBW, unless the batsman knows heís got an inside edge, are an exercise in futility. Umpires arenít making howlers and they donít get many borderline ones wrong.
Pretty much - per this, 34% of out decisions reviewed are overturned, vs only 20% of not out decisions - and that includes catches. Only 22% of all LBW calls are overturned, with presumably a similar skew in favour of the batters.

I think a big part of this is the umpire's call rule, where you can be right about it hitting but wrong to review. That's debatable, but while it's the rule, anyone appealing for less than a dead plumb howler is wasting their time.

Quote:
My view of plain dumb reviews like that one is the match referee should fine the captains match payment and have him give it (personally and in cash) to the presiding umpire.
A similar internal rule specifically for England and Broad would probably do a lot to help.
  #219  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:14 AM
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We're DRS appealing on a catch. I hate these. You either win or lose your review. At least with lbw, you might have a chance of retaining it.

But it's worked.
  #220  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:15 AM
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Somebody convince me that Anderson isn’t hurt.
Only 4 overs for a single run in the first session?
  #221  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:23 AM
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Question for the cricket mavens in the crowd: I may be in Bangalore on Sept 22, staying in a hotel just down the street from the stadium where India is playing South Africa. It's listed as "India v South Africa 2019 3rd T20I" and I have no idea where this fits in the grand scheme of things. Is this a qualifier for the T20 World Cup? What is the T20 World Cup? Should I try to attend, even for a bit, with my very basic knowledge of the game? I love attending sporting events around the world and this seems like it's the cosmos telling me I must attend a match right down the street from my hotel.
  #222  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:38 AM
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Yes, you should go. The atmosphere should be great (but not rising to the sometimes dangerous levels of India vs Pakistan) and the cricket could be spectacular. In case you're unaware, in T20 matches each side only bats for 20 overs, so the game is done in about 3 hours. This also tends to lead to aggressive batting, expect to see lots of balls flying into the stands. The T20 World Cup is held in a single country every couple of years with several countries playing each other over a few weeks to find the World Champion. This match isn't a qualifier for that, because at present both sides are strong enough to qualify automatically.
  #223  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:47 AM
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It’s a routine tour game.
It’s not a qualifier, both India and South Africa will play the nex WC.
But just for the vibe of an Indian home crowd going off their collective nuts it’d be a hoot.
The game will take 4 hours.
Get a seat, tell the guy beside to you are a cricket novice and it’s a near certainty you’ll be overwhelmed with enthusiasm for the game and they’ll let you know exactly what’s the game situation strategy and ball by ball commentary.
By the end of the game you’ll be a paid up member of the “Swami Army”!
  #224  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:45 AM
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Broad!

Could Smith and Paine have made more effort to cross?

Last edited by Dead Cat; 08-01-2019 at 08:46 AM.
  #225  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:50 AM
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Two of Broad's wickets wouldn't be out if DRS'd. Think Pattinson might have thought it better to leave the DRS remaining for Smith though...

Pretty ordinary umpiring. Pattinson's looked like it was going down leg at full speed, first time.
  #226  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:57 AM
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Does the TV camera angle make it easier to judge than the umpire's-eye view?

Related question - why do umpires stand so far behind the stumps? If I were umpiring, I'd want to be as near the stumps as possible, both to check for no balls and for lbw decisions. Is it because they have to leave room for the bowler to get as close to the stumps as they wish when they deliver the ball? It seems to me very tough to judge close no balls from 4-6 feet behind the stumps.
  #227  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:40 AM
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I think one problem with being closer in is that it makes it more difficult to keep the non-strikers crease and the batter in view at the same time. I.e. if you're looking down at the crease from 3 ft away at the moment the bowler releases the ball, you've got a second or so to look back up, pick up the flight of an 85 mph ball and possibly make an LBW call. Whereas if you're standing back it's easier to make the no-ball call without losing the overall view. Maybe?

I'm unpatriotically glad that Australia dragged it into the third session. Trent Bridge 2015 was fun, but this is Test cricket and one- or two-session innings should be a rarity. If this series is going to be a succession of collapses (which it well might be!) then I'll feel rather short-changed in a "C'est magnifique, mais c'est nes pas de guerre" kind of way.

I mean, to a point. I'm not calling for a record 10th wicket stand or anything crazy.
  #228  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:53 AM
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This chap Smith is quite good.
  #229  
Old 08-01-2019, 01:03 PM
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If offered that at the start of the day, I'd have taken it. Having had Australia 122-8 though, that is a fairly ordinary performance in the end.

Smith is bloody good mind you. It's more not sorting Siddle out more quickly I think I have issue with. Thought we missed Archer - and Anderson getting injured obviously not helping at all. Shades of Simon Jones- I wonder if we'll see Jimmy play for England again. A recurrence would put him out for the rest of the series.
  #230  
Old 08-01-2019, 02:17 PM
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On the one hand, you don't win the toss and bat to be 284 all-out unless the pitch is a dustbowl.
On the other, 284 could easily be the highest score of the game, and Siddle could easily have won the Test for Australia before he's bowled a ball. Australia must be on a massive high - what price them to get a 100+ first-innings lead?

And yes, the umpiring was all over the place, particularly in the first session.
  #231  
Old 08-01-2019, 04:57 PM
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It seems to me very tough to judge close no balls from 4-6 feet behind the stumps.
Umpires don't watch for front foot no balls.
They make a judgement based on where bowler usually the back foot lands.
If they are forward of their usual landing spot they may watch the front foot moe closely.
The DRS takes out the potential for a dismissal off a no ball, if it not a dismissal and the front foot is a couple of mils over the popping crease, que sera, sera.
Standing back provides a better view on line, length and height for LBWs
  #232  
Old 08-02-2019, 02:00 AM
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I prefer West Indies over England anyday. This test series proved why. Winning first by 381 runs and then by 2 wickets. Their game is more apt. and the performances of the players is constantly increasing.
  #233  
Old 08-02-2019, 03:56 AM
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Looking back on the innings, I think that Paine was the only guy who played a poor shot and even that is a a bit tough. LBW, bowled or nicking off to deliveries that had to be played. Nobody went to a catch in the gulley by handing their bat out to dry at deliveries that should have been let go.

So you’d need to give the honours to the bowlers.

By the time I went to bed about midnight when Pattinson went (7-122) I think there had only been a handful of short deliveries. And of course, missed the Smith/Siddle partnership and the last wicket fireworks.

A great example of why Test cricket is so enthralling
  #234  
Old 08-02-2019, 05:24 AM
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I am extremely happy that Smith scored so well- over 50% of Australia's runs. Surely the heckling has gone past the use by date given other indiscretions by other players from various countries.

Seemed a rather difficult decision as the whether to bat first on a pitch that did so much.

Penultimate Thule- are you getting mystified by team slections on the Australian side?
  #235  
Old 08-02-2019, 05:55 AM
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I am extremely happy that Smith scored so well- over 50% of Australia's runs. Surely the heckling has gone past the use by date given other indiscretions by other players from various countries.
In some respects, I don't think I disagree with this. This said, what reaction do you reckon an English cricketer would have got, under the same circumstances, in Australia? Given the treatment meted out in a subsequent Australian series to Broad for not walking in an Ashes Test up here (an offence that seems somewhat less serious to me than using sandpaper on the ball)? Given "get ready for a broken fuckin' arm"? Given the wind up that is generally given to the public by the media?

It's all bollocks and I wish everything could be conducted with a better sense of sportsmanship. I am sure we're all pretty much of like mind on this board. The fact of the matter is though, this is now how the masses respond. Putting a lid on it is going to be bloody difficult. In point of fact, the only way it will happen is keep scoring buckets of runs regardless - eventually the barrackers will shut up as it's not having an effect.
  #236  
Old 08-02-2019, 05:58 AM
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Not really.
Replace Bancroft with Burns is the only change I make in the batting.
I’d prefer one left arm paceman but I understand the concern that Starc can be expensive.
  #237  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:44 AM
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Root there, getting a year's worth of luck in one delivery.
  #238  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:49 AM
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If he goes on to get a century it will be worth it.

With apologies in advance, I'll be the one to say it - this is the sort of Test-match batting we have been crying out for for years. But we're going to need a 100+ first-innings lead to avoid a tricky last knock, and that's still a very long way off.
  #239  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:57 AM
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Yes, this is... good?

Root has faced 60 balls for 12. Burns has faced 110 for 53. England are 79/1 just after lunch. Australia were dangerous in the morning, but England have got away with only losing one. It's by no means straightforward for the batters, but it will get easier and if they can stick it out it will get easier, bowlers will tire, and there might be an opportunity for a good score.

It might not happen. But it's nice to feel it's an option.
  #240  
Old 08-02-2019, 08:13 AM
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Yes, fear of a major collapse is always there (no doubt for the players as much as the fans) but the longer this goes on, the more that fear recedes. And fear of a collapse is much better than an actual one.
  #241  
Old 08-02-2019, 08:48 AM
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TMS were chuntering about how perhaps England are scoring too slowly and this may be a problem. It makes you wonder if they've heard of Test cricket. 125/1 in 43 overs on a tough pitch, when your opponents were 122/8 yesterday, is fine.
  #242  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:54 AM
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England 170/2 at tea. 170/2!
Given we're batting last, though, I'd want to see at least a hundred run lead, although part of me would take just not being 200 all out.
  #243  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:10 AM
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Agreed, but 200 all out from here would be a far more serious disappointment than Australia getting 162 from their last 2 wickets, and that was bad enough.

Also agreed on the scoring rate. Indeed, the slower we score, the better - in fantasy land, we post 600-odd but take 3 days to do it, making the final day pitch their problem rather than ours.

Last edited by Dead Cat; 08-02-2019 at 10:11 AM.
  #244  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:57 AM
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201/4, Australia finding a bit of swing with a replacement ball.
  #245  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:28 AM
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Lordy, Lordy, we are watching some Test cricket!
  #246  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:14 AM
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In some respects, I don't think I disagree with this. This said, what reaction do you reckon an English cricketer would have got, under the same circumstances, in Australia? Given the treatment meted out in a subsequent Australian series to Broad for not walking in an Ashes Test up here (an offence that seems somewhat less serious to me than using sandpaper on the ball)? Given "get ready for a broken fuckin' arm"? Given the wind up that is generally given to the public by the media?

It's all bollocks and I wish everything could be conducted with a better sense of sportsmanship. I am sure we're all pretty much of like mind on this board. The fact of the matter is though, this is now how the masses respond. Putting a lid on it is going to be bloody difficult. In point of fact, the only way it will happen is keep scoring buckets of runs regardless - eventually the barrackers will shut up as it's not having an effect.
The "broken arm" comment was totally wrong and should never have been said. One correction- Smith never used sandpaper on the ball- his was an offence by omission rather than commission. I do agree that any English cricketer would cop heaps and I don't necessarily agree with that either (unless it was Douglas Jardine).

As for not walking, I wouldn't expect a batsman to walk- Gilchrist seems to be the only one I can recall in somewhat recent years.

Bottom line is the viewing public pay to get in and can yell what they want within reason. The barracking seems pretty pointless as it is having seemingly no effect.

Maybe we can do a trade off- we'll stop including any Marsh's in the Australian side and you stop sending out the Barmy Army. Though that is hardly a fair exchange. How about if we include one of the Marsh's?
  #247  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:38 AM
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Cumbrian, just for the record I can never get my head around the whole ball tampering affair. It was unnecessary, totally against the spirit of the game and something I could never condone. In the rear vision mirror the Steve Waugh led teams were driven to winning but never had to resort to underhand tactics. They also had some extremely good players- something Australia lacks at the moment.

There are so many cameras around the grounds these days that anything so simple is bound to be discovered so it was a really stupid and clumsy approach, but the point is that it should never have been entertained in the first place- or more precisely, never should have occurred to anyone to even attempt it.

If you lose a series that is okay- it happens to all teams. To cheat is not okay.
  #248  
Old 08-03-2019, 06:25 AM
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Aha, here is that collapse we were all waiting for. Still, at least it's come with 300 on the board rather than our customary 30. We are going to need to bowl even better to get anything out of this one, you feel.
  #249  
Old 08-03-2019, 06:32 AM
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How about if we include one of the Marsh's?
Provided itís Rod, Iím fine with that.
  #250  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:05 AM
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Aha, here is that collapse we were all waiting for. Still, at least it's come with 300 on the board rather than our customary 30. We are going to need to bowl even better to get anything out of this one, you feel.
If Anderson was fully fit and roaring, I would be much less worried. Currently 44 ahead with 2 wickets left, with Anderson not certain to bat. At the start of the day I was hoping to get up to a hundred lead, and we may well still get there - both Woakes and Broad can bat handily.

Moeen continues to disappoint with the bat. I've said it here before, but I really expect more from him. But his bowling makes him worth his place. Unlike Johnny Bairstow.

And since I haven't said it yet, well playing Burns!
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