Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-25-2019, 03:17 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508

Do we miss people or the times we had with them?


Something that I thought about when people say they miss a person due to a break up or to a death they mention how much they miss them. But I wonder if we actually miss the person themselves or all the times we had with them. Or maybe itís both.
  #2  
Old 08-25-2019, 03:23 PM
DrFidelius's Avatar
DrFidelius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 12,512
How could you miss a person if individuality is an illusion?
How could you value memories if value is imaginary?
Please get professional help to assist with keeping your obsessive ideas internally consistent.
__________________
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent any other persons, organizations, spirits, thinking machines, hive minds or other sentient beings on this world or any adjacent dimensions in the multiverse.
  #3  
Old 08-25-2019, 04:23 PM
panache45's Avatar
panache45 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 46,515
Have you, personally, ever been close enough to another human being to actually miss them? Do you have first-hand knowledge of that experience, or is your entire life imaginary or illusory?
  #4  
Old 08-25-2019, 04:49 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
Have you, personally, ever been close enough to another human being to actually miss them? Do you have first-hand knowledge of that experience, or is your entire life imaginary or illusory?
The only loss I felt we my dog when she passed away, thatís about the only thing that really affected me. But I wonder if I missed her or the times I had with her. I mean I remember them fondly, but what I miss are the little things she did that made her her. Stomping her little paws when she wanted food was one, or her little growling that turned into licks.
  #5  
Old 08-25-2019, 04:56 PM
kanicbird is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 19,570
It's what they brought to our lives. The time we had with them included them giving of themselves to us (for various motivations). The time we spent with them gets us to recognize their value to our lives.
  #6  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:15 PM
JohnGalt's Avatar
JohnGalt is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Med city USA
Posts: 2,223
I certainly miss the memories of times I've had with people, but what I really miss is the potential future memories. Because of that I'd say I miss the people.
  #7  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:04 PM
kopek is offline
born to be shunned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 15,206
Both but a leaning towards the times we had and the times we could have had; moments lost in the rush of time.
  #8  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:14 PM
Dallas Jones is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orygun forest
Posts: 4,921
I used to miss people, but my aim is improving.
  #9  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:41 PM
panache45's Avatar
panache45 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 46,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
The only loss I felt we my dog when she passed away, thatís about the only thing that really affected me. But I wonder if I missed her or the times I had with her. I mean I remember them fondly, but what I miss are the little things she did that made her her. Stomping her little paws when she wanted food was one, or her little growling that turned into licks.
What you miss is the effect she had ON YOU at the time. There's nothing else in your life that's having the same effect.
  #10  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:19 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 81,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
I certainly miss the memories of times I've had with people, but what I really miss is the potential future memories. Because of that I'd say I miss the people.
I agree. I still have the times I had with somebody. It's the times I would have had with them but didn't that I lost.
  #11  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:32 PM
snfaulkner's Avatar
snfaulkner is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: 123 Fake Street
Posts: 7,947
What's the difference?
__________________
It may be because I'm a drooling simpleton with the attention span of a demented gnat, but would you mind explaining everything in words of one syllable. 140 chars max.
  #12  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:43 PM
Dr_Paprika is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: South of Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,925
Both, obviously. People bond by doing things together, and you tend to want to do things with folks you like.
__________________
"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man"
  #13  
Old 08-25-2019, 11:09 PM
Mallard is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Jones View Post
I used to miss people, but my aim is improving.
  #14  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:47 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanicbird View Post
It's what they brought to our lives. The time we had with them included them giving of themselves to us (for various motivations). The time we spent with them gets us to recognize their value to our lives.
See that's what I thought too, but then I got to wondering if I am just attributing things onto them that aren't really there. Like do I miss the person themselves or the time I spent with them? Do I miss the moments and not really them and by wanting them back am I really just wanting more of the same moments with them again? Am I taking the moments I had with them and projecting that feeling onto them and thinking they were the cause of it.

The problem I have with the "times that I miss" means that I don't really value or love/care for the person but rather the times I had with them.
  #15  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:26 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
See that's what I thought too, but then I got to wondering if I am just attributing things onto them that aren't really there. Like do I miss the person themselves or the time I spent with them? Do I miss the moments and not really them and by wanting them back am I really just wanting more of the same moments with them again? Am I taking the moments I had with them and projecting that feeling onto them and thinking they were the cause of it.

The problem I have with the "times that I miss" means that I don't really value or love/care for the person but rather the times I had with them.
<bolding mine>

Take that moment with your pup. Imagine that exact moment in time without her in it. Who or what exactly would replace the foot stomping or the growling or the entire pup-ness of her being if she were not present, as herself, and interacting with you in that moment? Would it be the same?

Now, go wash your bowl.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #16  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:41 PM
Zeldar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 24,322
The more I think about this specific question and the idea(s) behind it, the more it reminds me of that old koan: what is the sound of of one hand clapping? (or something along those lines...)
  #17  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:05 PM
filmore is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,508
When you have a close relationship with someone, your idea of 'self' incorporates that person. Who you feel like you are is partly due to the relationships you have in your life. When a person is no longer with you, it can feel like you have lost part of yourself.

Sometimes you can miss someone just because they were fun. A coworker might be an example. Maybe a coworker made work more enjoyable. When they are gone, the workplace feels duller. But you might not have that kind of personal connection with them where you feel a sense of loss if they aren't there. They were more serving a useful function rather than helping your life to feel more complete.
  #18  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:24 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,070
When I miss a person, I miss the person. I only know the person via our interactions, it's true, but interactions convey information about the person on the other side of the interactions. So when I say that I miss spending time with a person, that doesn't mean that any random person could step into their shoes and replace them. There is an accumulation of knowledge and feelings and expectations that are associated with the specific person that the replacement person will not evoke. I knows that the other person knows me, and that can change the person that I can be around them.

Of course I can also miss the things I did with them. Good times, good times. So it can certainly be both.
  #19  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:36 PM
jaycat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldar View Post
The more I think about this specific question and the idea(s) behind it, the more it reminds me of that old koan. . .
George M?
  #20  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:32 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
<bolding mine>

Take that moment with your pup. Imagine that exact moment in time without her in it. Who or what exactly would replace the foot stomping or the growling or the entire pup-ness of her being if she were not present, as herself, and interacting with you in that moment? Would it be the same?

Now, go wash your bowl.
I guess that exact moment wouldn't be the same without her to be truthful. Without her little stamping feet and such it would not be the same.


http://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/...hist-solution/
  #21  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:28 PM
HoneyBadgerDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Torrance Ca
Posts: 8,092
I heard something on a radio talk show about 30 years ago that was a real life changer for me. The speaker made the statement that when we fall in love we fall in love with the way we feel about ourselves while in the presence of that other person. You can apply that to any and all kinds of relationships, professional, personal, social.
  #22  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:30 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
Oh look a Buddhist site. I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.

I feel it's worth noting that after reading all these sites you keep linking, I still have no clear idea what these people mean by the word "attachment". (And when I tried drilling down through links to find a page, article, something that gave a clear answer, it suddenly stopped serving up pages and asked me for money.)

Regardless, they definitely don't use the word like humans do and I consider it highly probable that neither you or I know what they mean by the term. So I would caution you from drawing inferences from anything they say that uses the term, until you can be confident you understand what they heck they mean by it. Because unless you do you are guaranteed to misunderstand them and start coming up with wild ideas.

I would also recommend that you not bother learning what they mean by the term, and go hang out with friends instead. I don't expect you to listen to me though.
  #23  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:21 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Oh look a Buddhist site. I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.

I feel it's worth noting that after reading all these sites you keep linking, I still have no clear idea what these people mean by the word "attachment". (And when I tried drilling down through links to find a page, article, something that gave a clear answer, it suddenly stopped serving up pages and asked me for money.)

Regardless, they definitely don't use the word like humans do and I consider it highly probable that neither you or I know what they mean by the term. So I would caution you from drawing inferences from anything they say that uses the term, until you can be confident you understand what they heck they mean by it. Because unless you do you are guaranteed to misunderstand them and start coming up with wild ideas.

I would also recommend that you not bother learning what they mean by the term, and go hang out with friends instead. I don't expect you to listen to me though.
I try that but sometimes I wonder if Buddhism is right and it's not the person I like but the time I have with that person, which makes me sound cold in some manner because I don't love them but just the times I had with them.
  #24  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:52 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
I try that but sometimes I wonder if Buddhism is right and it's not the person I like but the time I have with that person, which makes me sound cold in some manner because I don't love them but just the times I had with them.
Well, I already aired my opinions on that subject. I love the people themselves, not just the times we have. To the degree that Buddhism may or may not say that that's impossible to do, my existence disproves it.
  #25  
Old 09-01-2019, 05:12 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Well according this you don’t:

Quote:
Very much so, you know.

Everything around you is an illusion in fact. For example, if you are one light year away from the earth and you see the earth, you see events from one year ago. So what does that mean? Every event is so unreal that our perception of stuff mattering is almost comical.

One more thing is what love are we talking about here? Is it love towards the immortal stuff like music, science and art? or are we talking boy-girl love here?

First, let me come to the latter part

Human beings are fickle.

It is said in Bhagavad Gita


“canchalam hi manah Krishna
pramathi balavad drdham
tasyaham nigraham manye
vayor iva su-duskaram”

(Translation - Oh Krishna, the mind is fickle, turbulent , obstinate and restless. To control it seems more difficult than controlling a full blown storm)

Arjun mentions a problem that we have all faced at some point in our lives. We just cannot control our mind. One minute, I’m thinking of focussing on work and the next minute, here I am on Quora answering random questions. How many days have you procrastinated stuff? As Arjun mentioned, its easier to control a storm than to control the human brain.

This is the fickle mind that we are dealing with. It is just impossible to create a “real” bond between one such human mind and another….especially when one has choices in choosing another mind - that is, your love towards your mother can be true because , one can have only one mother…thus in fact your love is towards maternity than towards the mind of the mother itself…no one would love their mother if the mother wasn’t kind and loving….would you love your mother if she had harassed you verbally and physically as a kid? No…because, you love the concept of maternity..which is care…and not the human being, that is the mother itself.

Now coming to lovers, a person has more than one choice for another human being as a “lover”. Now he/she categorizes a lot before choosing one ....and that narrows it down to around a million rather than a billion choices. Now can we trust our fickle mind to bond “really” with another such fickle mind? The answer is no, the bond is not real. It is an illusion.

This illusion is created because we want it to be created. As things stand, no “normal” human being will like to admit that deep inside they are lonely. How much ever you claim to love a person, all the person can do is stand by and watch during some of your sufferings. Sure you’ll claim that him/her “being there for you” is a great sign….but no, its not a great sign…its a sign of weakness…if your mind is strong enough, you won’t need anyone to “be there for you”

Popularisation of idiotic things like mocking the guy who eats alone or mocking a guy who is single and forty years old in our sex-minded society is what has led to the popularisation of the concept of love. People want to believe that they have found their true lover….so that they aren’t “forty, single and eating alone”...

To sum it up - Love towards abstract things is ironically real…mainly because abstract things are a perception of one’s own mind…and hence your mind is totally attached to it.

Love towards “real” things is ironically an illusion…mainly because both of your minds are fickle
  #26  
Old 09-01-2019, 08:02 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
The principle is about the same.
  #27  
Old 09-01-2019, 08:21 PM
DrFidelius's Avatar
DrFidelius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 12,512
Get professional help to break the cycle of your obsessions.
__________________
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent any other persons, organizations, spirits, thinking machines, hive minds or other sentient beings on this world or any adjacent dimensions in the multiverse.
  #28  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:22 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFidelius View Post
Get professional help to break the cycle of your obsessions.
The problem is the arguments themselves, even the therapist said so.
  #29  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:24 AM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
The problem is the arguments themselves, even the therapist said so.
No he didn't. He might have acknowledged the fact that the arguments are bad just to get you to stop obsessing and wasting hours of therapy. But he almost certainly didn't say your problem is the bad arguments. Because it's not his job to fix bad arguments on the internet. It's his job to help you manage your obsessive behavior.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #30  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:28 AM
Nava is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 42,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldar View Post
The more I think about this specific question and the idea(s) behind it, the more it reminds me of that old koan: what is the sound of of one hand clapping? (or something along those lines...)
Depends, does it have a castagnette?
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.
  #31  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:33 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
No he didn't. He might have acknowledged the fact that the arguments are bad just to get you to stop obsessing and wasting hours of therapy. But he almost certainly didn't say your problem is the bad arguments. Because it's not his job to fix bad arguments on the internet. It's his job to help you manage your obsessive behavior.
No they told me it was the arguments. When I shared the above one with him he mentioned that it is true, in that we tend to love the ideas around people rather than the person. I was asking him if he had any counter points to that and he said he didnít really know. I appreciate the honesty I guess.

But you guys keep calling it bad arguments but donít really say why. The paragraph I linked seems like an exact explanation of the situation. That you think you love your mother but itís really care that you like because if she mistreated you then you wouldnít love her.

Itís similar to liking the time you spent with someone but not the person, or rather projecting one onto the other.
  #32  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:35 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
It was the same issue with everything else I posed to him, he mentioned to me the problem was the questions or the subject matter but that he couldn’t really answer them.
  #33  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 12,680
You admitted earlier that your fondness for your dog was for her, specifically.

I think the correct answer is "both": you miss the person and you miss things you did with them.

I strongly recommend that you look at philosophies other then Buddhism. Its teachings seem to upset you and offer you, personally, no value.
  #34  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:18 PM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
No they told me it was the arguments. When I shared the above one with him he mentioned that it is true, in that we tend to love the ideas around people rather than the person. I was asking him if he had any counter points to that and he said he didn’t really know. I appreciate the honesty I guess.
I can only speculate, but my sense is that he didn't want to waste the hour arguing with you about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
But you guys keep calling it bad arguments but don’t really say why. The paragraph I linked seems like an exact explanation of the situation. That you think you love your mother but it’s really care that you like because if she mistreated you then you wouldn’t love her.
It's a trite,meaningless statement. Really fucked up relationships (and people) aside, name me a situation in which you would love someone for treating you very badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
It’s similar to liking the time you spent with someone but not the person, or rather projecting one onto the other.
No it isn't. You loved your dog because she gave you joy and loyalty. There were very specific character traits that you loved about her besides. You'd have loved a different dog just as much and that dog would have some different attributes which you would also love. You wouldn't likely love a dog that wanted to tear your hand off every time you came near it. What you love is the target of your affection, the affection they show you, the characteristics they possesses/express and the way the entire relationship makes you feel. It's non-transferable. It's non-deconstructable. It's all of it. It's complicated. That is why the argument that you're currently obsessing over is a bad argument. It's simplistic. And that's the appeal for you. You want a simple explanation, and there is not one.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 09-02-2019 at 01:19 PM.
  #35  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:58 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
You admitted earlier that your fondness for your dog was for her, specifically.

I think the correct answer is "both": you miss the person and you miss things you did with them.

I strongly recommend that you look at philosophies other then Buddhism. Its teachings seem to upset you and offer you, personally, no value.
It's not a matter of being helpful but trying to have an accurate view of reality and living to what is true.
  #36  
Old 09-02-2019, 03:09 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
I can only speculate, but my sense is that he didn't want to waste the hour arguing with you about it.



It's a trite,meaningless statement. Really fucked up relationships (and people) aside, name me a situation in which you would love someone for treating you very badly.



No it isn't. You loved your dog because she gave you joy and loyalty. There were very specific character traits that you loved about her besides. You'd have loved a different dog just as much and that dog would have some different attributes which you would also love. You wouldn't likely love a dog that wanted to tear your hand off every time you came near it. What you love is the target of your affection, the affection they show you, the characteristics they possesses/express and the way the entire relationship makes you feel. It's non-transferable. It's non-deconstructable. It's all of it. It's complicated. That is why the argument that you're currently obsessing over is a bad argument. It's simplistic. And that's the appeal for you. You want a simple explanation, and there is not one.
Except you're wrong, it's not a simple argument but one that points out something that I never considered before. Did I really miss my dog or just the times I had. Or if she wasn't nice would I still like her?

It's the same with people. DO I like them or just the actions at a certain time. You call an argument trite but don't take it down, which isn't a good look. You describe traits, but traits are just these ethereal and transitory concepts,which just proves the guy right in the paragraph. That I like those traits, but not the actual human or animal. Your long paragraph proves his point exactly.
  #37  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:28 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
In this sense I wonder if I just project feelings onto an animal that likely doesn't feel the same. I mean she didn't like me much but I was broken up by it, which is why her death was a puzzle to me.
  #38  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:51 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 16,948
Man, that's really just sad.
  #39  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:11 AM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
Except you're wrong, it's not a simple argument but one that points out something that I never considered before. Did I really miss my dog or just the times I had. Or if she wasn't nice would I still like her?
No, I'm definitely right. It's a trite and stupid argument that you're obsessed with, as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
It's the same with people. DO I like them or just the actions at a certain time. You call an argument trite but don't take it down, which isn't a good look. You describe traits, but traits are just these ethereal and transitory concepts,which just proves the guy right in the paragraph. That I like those traits, but not the actual human or animal. Your long paragraph proves his point exactly.
You really are a sad and broken toy. I don't think engaging with you in these pointless discussions, attempting to make you see the light of day is of any value to you, or anyone who takes the time to do so. Keep going to therapy. Maybe it will help you some day. I'm out.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #40  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:20 AM
Jasmine's Avatar
Jasmine is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,190
Our relationships with people are based on the "times" we had with them. If there are no "times" with people, there are no relationships. Your question implies that, somehow, our feeling for people and our experiences with those people are somehow separate things. They are not.
__________________
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge."
--Daniel J Boorstin
  #41  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:26 PM
Helena330's Avatar
Helena330 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Near Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 3,845
It's shallow and offensive to suggest that we selfishly only miss people because of the times we've had with them. With your dog, don't you miss knowing that you always had someone in your corner, just as one example? Losing a human is much worse, and I say that as someone who has loved and lost many animals. I miss the comfort my husband's presence gave me. I miss the things he would've taught me that now he won't. I miss seeing what he'll do with the rest of his life or even the rest of his day. I'm with Zeldar*. Get back to us when you've lost a human. Your experience here is extremely limited so your speculation is insulting.

*That was a completely tone-deaf comment to Zeldar, Nava.
  #42  
Old 09-04-2019, 01:33 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post
It's shallow and offensive to suggest that we selfishly only miss people because of the times we've had with them. With your dog, don't you miss knowing that you always had someone in your corner, just as one example? Losing a human is much worse, and I say that as someone who has loved and lost many animals. I miss the comfort my husband's presence gave me. I miss the things he would've taught me that now he won't. I miss seeing what he'll do with the rest of his life or even the rest of his day. I'm with Zeldar*. Get back to us when you've lost a human. Your experience here is extremely limited so your speculation is insulting.

*That was a completely tone-deaf comment to Zeldar, Nava.
I think you're getting too worked up.

It's likely that she was in my corner, or maybe I just projected that onto an animal. I mean I can't know how she truly feels. But the dog itself is a body. Do I miss the body? OR the less tangible concepts like caring, excitedness, the features. If she wasn't cute would I love her? I don't know,but it would mean that I like cuteness and not her. It's like the example in the paragraph with the mother, you love "care" or the "idea" of it, not the actual human for if she mistreated you then you wouldn't feel then same way. You fall in love with traits or ideas but not the actual human, if you did then it wouldn't matter what traits they have.

It was hard to accept that for me but the more that I thought about it the less I could deny it being true in some regard. It still hurts, but if I did fall in love with the person then their traits wouldn't matter, but I know that's not true or at least I can't deny it.
  #43  
Old 09-04-2019, 01:35 AM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
No, I'm definitely right. It's a trite and stupid argument that you're obsessed with, as usual.



You really are a sad and broken toy. I don't think engaging with you in these pointless discussions, attempting to make you see the light of day is of any value to you, or anyone who takes the time to do so. Keep going to therapy. Maybe it will help you some day. I'm out.
People resort to calling something stupid when they aren't capable of arguing against it. I used to do that.
  #44  
Old 09-04-2019, 08:30 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
People resort to calling something stupid when they aren't capable of arguing against it. I used to do that.
"They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

-- Carl Sagan
  #45  
Old 09-04-2019, 06:11 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
I think you're getting too worked up.

It's likely that she was in my corner, or maybe I just projected that onto an animal. I mean I can't know how she truly feels. But the dog itself is a body. Do I miss the body? OR the less tangible concepts like caring, excitedness, the features. If she wasn't cute would I love her? I don't know,but it would mean that I like cuteness and not her. It's like the example in the paragraph with the mother, you love "care" or the "idea" of it, not the actual human for if she mistreated you then you wouldn't feel then same way. You fall in love with traits or ideas but not the actual human, if you did then it wouldn't matter what traits they have.

It was hard to accept that for me but the more that I thought about it the less I could deny it being true in some regard. It still hurts, but if I did fall in love with the person then their traits wouldn't matter, but I know that's not true or at least I can't deny it.
Are you claiming that the only kind of love is unconditional love? Because that's what you're saying, and it's pretty obviously wrong.
  #46  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:47 PM
Spud's Avatar
Spud is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 3,971
You always have the memories... you miss not being able to make more.
  #47  
Old 09-05-2019, 07:17 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
"They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

-- Carl Sagan
That doesn't make the point incorrect and just calling it stupid without pointing out the flaws doesn't work.
  #48  
Old 09-06-2019, 05:08 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud View Post
You always have the memories... you miss not being able to make more.
But the thing is that if you loved the person or the dog then it wouldnít matter what they were like, but like in the case with the mother where if she was cruel you wouldnít like her it shows that you like the idea of care or kindness, not the human.
  #49  
Old 09-06-2019, 05:21 PM
begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
But the thing is that if you loved the person or the dog then it wouldnít matter what they were like, but like in the case with the mother where if she was cruel you wouldnít like her it shows that you like the idea of care or kindness, not the human.
Nope. That particular example just shows that it's possible to not love somebody who's cruel to you.
  #50  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:47 PM
Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Nope. That particular example just shows that it's possible to not love somebody who's cruel to you.
Exactly which means you like care and kindness not the person. If you loved the person then it doesn't matter how they act. It's like loving the times you had with people and not the person themselves.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017