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Old 09-01-2019, 01:44 AM
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Roger Moore was pretty cold blooded as Bond


Rewatching some of the Roger Moore era Bond films recently, its quite striking just how cold-blooded he can be, despite his era supposedly being more light-hearted.


We have metioned examples here earlier (in For Your Eyes he kicks a henchman down a cliff and in The Man with the Golden Gun he slaps Anders until she tells him), but in all his films he has moments.

Sure Craig and Dalton and Connery look more scary and intimidating at first glance and are in fact, but compare it with the internal POV. Moore Bond comes across as a somehwhat quirky middle aged Gent and suddenly, without warning a target finds themselves being ruthlessly disposed off.
More effective.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:09 AM
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One thing that Connery (and Lazenby) did that none of the others would or could were the in your face, non quick cut, one on one fights. Against Robert Shaw in From Russia, against the South American thug in Goldfinger, against the smuggler in Diamonds...they had the size and believablility to pull them off.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:33 AM
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in the novels, Bond did not joke about killing.

Moore's Bond did.

I'm uneasy about that.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:38 AM
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in the novels, Bond did not joke about killing.

Moore's Bond did.

I'm uneasy about that.
But his appearances were bookended by Connery’s Bond (who, as far as I can tell, joked about killing) and Dalton’s Bond (who, as far as I can tell, didn’t joke about much, but, yeah, killing made the short list). Why single out Moore?
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:48 AM
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One thing that Connery (and Lazenby) did that none of the others would or could were the in your face, non quick cut, one on one fights. Against Robert Shaw in From Russia, against the South American thug in Goldfinger, against the smuggler in Diamonds...they had the size and believablility to pull them off.
Portrayer: height

Sean Connery: 6'2"
David Niven: 6'0"
George Lazenby: 6'2"
Roger Moore: 6'1"
Timothy Dalton: 6'2"
Pierce Brosnan: 6'1"
Daniel Craig: 5'10"
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:09 AM
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Portrayer: height

Sean Connery: 6'2"
David Niven: 6'0"
George Lazenby: 6'2"
Roger Moore: 6'1"
Timothy Dalton: 6'2"
Pierce Brosnan: 6'1"
Daniel Craig: 5'10"
Connery was a street kid from Aberdeen and Lazenby was an Aussie special forcer. They could believably pull off a hand to hand fight to the death. The others not so much.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:24 AM
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Moore had been in the Army as well. And we saw in ffokes that he absolutely could play the hard fighter.
My point is that in his Bond portrayal he purposefully made the character look docile to others, which is why they were so easily caught out when he started beating them up.
Craig’s Bond looks like a special forces type when you see him.

Moore’s Bond looks like a dandy. A toff. When he gets dangerous people are surprised.

And anyway in a list of “Most Assholish thing 007 has ever done”, Moore’s Bond has most of the spots sown up.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:35 AM
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Moore had been in the Army as well. And we saw in ffokes that he absolutely could play the hard fighter.
I was about to post my recollection, but I thought I'd verify first. My recollection was correct:

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This film was a vehicle for both Moore and Perkins to try to escape typecasting. Previously, Moore had been practically typecast as a womanising, happy-go-lucky playboy in such series as The Saint, The Persuaders! and James Bond. In contrast to those parts, he portrays a bearded, eccentric, arrogant, cat-loving misogynist with master strategist skills.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:46 AM
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The coldest throwaway Moore Bond death, from Moonraker, was the girl he slept with the get information that Dax had killed the next day. Bond never even knew he caused her death. I wonder if it even would have matter to him if he know. That's cold.

In ffolkes I suspected ffolkes wasn't just misogynist, but maybe gay. And maybe his men, too. "My people know their way around a man's anatomy!" I'll bet they do. So it would have made an interesting conflict with the gay hero facing off against a gay villain. Anti Bond.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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Since ffolkes was heavily based on Mike Calvert, I suspect it’s more than just “maybe”.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:22 AM
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The coldest throwaway Moore Bond death, from Moonraker, was the girl he slept with the get information that Dax had killed the next day. Bond never even knew he caused her death. I wonder if it even would have matter to him if he know. That's cold.
Moore’s Bond arguably raped Solitaire with a shrug.

That’s pretty danged cold.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:28 AM
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Doesn't Dalton try and kill that female cello player? If i recall, or says he's going to. Craig is briefly fine with letting Vesper die.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:37 AM
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Moore’s Bond arguably raped Solitaire with a shrug.

.
Raped her with a shrug? Was she sitting on his face at the time?
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Old 09-01-2019, 05:35 PM
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Connery was a street kid from Aberdeen
Edinburgh.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:05 PM
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Doesn't Dalton try and kill that female cello player...?
That was a major plot point in that story. It was business as usual, but he had enough respect for innocence that he couldn't go through with it.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:12 PM
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That was a major plot point in that story. It was business as usual, but he had enough respect for innocence that he couldn't go through with it.
Heck, it’s the point of the title: “Stuff my orders; I only kill professionals; that girl didn't know one end of a rifle from the other. Go ahead, tell M what you want; if he fires me, I'll thank him for it.” [pauses as he ponders what he did instead of killing her] “Whoever she was, I must have scared the living daylights out of her.”
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:14 PM
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Connery could be pretty cold-blooded as Bond, too. Witness his killing of Professor DEnt in his very first Bond film, Dr. No. Dent has just tried to assassinate Bond by shooting him in his sleep, only to find that Bond had set a decoy, and has turned the tables, knocking the gun out of his hand. As Bond interrogates him about No, Dent spies the gun nearby and tries to get it without Bond (who seems not to be paying attention) noticing. He finally snags the gun and pulls it on Bond, who doesn't react as Dent pulls the trigger, finding the gun empty.

"That's a Smith and Wesson," he says, nonchalantly, "And you've had your six."

Then he easily pulls the trigger on his own gun, killing Dent.

Admittedly, Dent had just tried to assassinate him, but it really is pretty cold to kill essentially an unarmed man like that. The Double 0 branch operates under a different set of rules, evidently.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:16 PM
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Heck, it’s the point of the title: “Stuff my orders; I only kill professionals; that girl didn't know one end of a rifle from the other. Go ahead, tell M what you want; if he fires me, I'll thank him for it.” [pauses as he ponders what he did instead of killing her] “Whoever she was, I must have scared the living daylights out of her.”
In this case, the movie follows precisely the plot of the original story. In Fleming's short story, Bond did see the female assassin, who transported the gun in her instrument case, and adjusted his aim at the last second to avoid killing her. His companion noticed this and said he'd have to report Bond's actions, and Bond replied with pretty much the same words.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:27 PM
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The coldest throwaway Moore Bond death, from Moonraker, was the girl he slept with the get information that Dax had killed the next day. Bond never even knew he caused her death. I wonder if it even would have matter to him if he know. That's cold.
Craig's Bond in Casino Royal seduced Solange, Le Chiffre's wife. She was later found dead in the hammock:
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James Bond : What makes your husband a bad man?

Solange : His nature, I suppose.

James Bond : The nature of his work?

Solange : The mystery, I'm afraid. I'm also afraid you will sleep with me in order to get to him.

James Bond : How afraid?

Solange : Oh, not enough to stop.

Solange : Apparently, he's on the last flight to Miami. So, you have all night to question me.

James Bond : In that case, we're gonna need - some more champagne.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:46 PM
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Connery could be pretty cold-blooded as Bond, too. Witness his killing of Professor DEnt in his very first Bond film, Dr. No. Dent has just tried to assassinate Bond by shooting him in his sleep, only to find that Bond had set a decoy, and has turned the tables, knocking the gun out of his hand. As Bond interrogates him about No, Dent spies the gun nearby and tries to get it without Bond (who seems not to be paying attention) noticing. He finally snags the gun and pulls it on Bond, who doesn't react as Dent pulls the trigger, finding the gun empty.

"That's a Smith and Wesson," he says, nonchalantly, "And you've had your six."

Then he easily pulls the trigger on his own gun, killing Dent.

Admittedly, Dent had just tried to assassinate him, but it really is pretty cold to kill essentially an unarmed man like that. The Double 0 branch operates under a different set of rules, evidently.
Even better in the movie, and it must have been shocking for a 1962 movie audience, Bond not only shoots the unarmed Dent, he puts another shot into his back to make sure Dent's dead. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cns2HKn0tDk
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:54 PM
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In this case, the movie follows precisely the plot of the original story. In Fleming's short story, Bond did see the female assassin, who transported the gun in her instrument case, and adjusted his aim at the last second to avoid killing her. His companion noticed this and said he'd have to report Bond's actions, and Bond replied with pretty much the same words.
One of the few movies where the Walther WA 2000 rifle is seen. Always wondered what that weird gun was that Bond had, until IMFDB became a thing.

IMHO, Dalton was one of the better Bonds. Too bad he never really had decent scripts for his talent.

The list of Bonds by height is interesting. Never met any of them in person, but I've thought Craig was the most intimidating of the bunch. Always thought it would've been interesting if Lewis Collins, who AIUI, was on the short list to be Bond, had been chosen. Decent actor in things like Who Dares Wins.

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Old 09-01-2019, 11:01 PM
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Moore skied on Olin Mark VI Comp SL's. Enough said.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:10 PM
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Craig's Bond in Casino Royal seduced Solange, Le Chiffre's wife. She was later found dead in the hammock:
Solange was Dimitrios's wife, right?
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:48 AM
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Even better in the movie, and it must have been shocking for a 1962 movie audience, Bond not only shoots the unarmed Dent, he puts another shot into his back to make sure Dent's dead. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cns2HKn0tDk
It wasn't just cold-blooded, it seemed to me counterproductive. Bond had captured Dr. No's right-hand man. Surely it would have been better to take him into custody and interrogate him rather than kill him basically for spite. (One could argue that Bond didn't have time to take him in, and it was better to kill him than take a chance he might escape by tying him up and having others come pick him up, but still it seemed like a screw-up on Bond's part to kill a valuable informant.)
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:58 AM
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Even better in the movie, and it must have been shocking for a 1962 movie audience, Bond not only shoots the unarmed Dent, he puts another shot into his back to make sure Dent's dead. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cns2HKn0tDk
Bond does essentially the same thing thing to Stromberg. Shoots him twice, even taunting him that he is out of ammo, then moves in closer for two further shots.

https://youtu.be/XbqxXFv1sik
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:28 AM
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Bond does essentially the same thing thing to Stromberg. Shoots him twice, even taunting him that he is out of ammo, then moves in closer for two further shots.

https://youtu.be/XbqxXFv1sik
By 1977, I think audiences were a bit more used to that sort of thing. Sort of surprising his .380 was able to zip through the breech of that speargun to gut shoot Stromberg, but it didn't matter after the two to the chest. And it's a movie, not a documentary, sheesh.
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:29 AM
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It wasn't just cold-blooded, it seemed to me counterproductive. Bond had captured Dr. No's right-hand man. Surely it would have been better to take him into custody and interrogate him rather than kill him basically for spite. (One could argue that Bond didn't have time to take him in, and it was better to kill him than take a chance he might escape by tying him up and having others come pick him up, but still it seemed like a screw-up on Bond's part to kill a valuable informant.)
Dent probably had a suicide capsule too. I got the impression Dr. No's people weren't ever going to talk.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:48 AM
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"My people know their way around a man's anatomy!" I'll bet they do.
It makes them more efficient killers.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:09 AM
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Solange was Dimitrios's wife, right?


Yep.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:42 AM
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Solange was Dimitrios's wife, right?
Bond,
1) Took Dimitrious car
2) Fucked his wife
3) Killed him

All in one night.
The wife and killing are part of his job, but man, did he have to take his car?
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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Dent probably had a suicide capsule too. I got the impression Dr. No's people weren't ever going to talk.
Do we elsewhere see captured members of SPECTRE committing suicide? It's a commercial criminal organization, not a ideological one. Dent might have committed suicide, but Bond didn't know that for sure. Basically, Bond just killed him in revenge because he was pissed off that Dent had tried to kill him. He didn't give any consideration to his possible intelligence value.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:29 AM
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It wasn't just cold-blooded, it seemed to me counterproductive. Bond had captured Dr. No's right-hand man. Surely it would have been better to take him into custody and interrogate him rather than kill him basically for spite. (One could argue that Bond didn't have time to take him in, and it was better to kill him than take a chance he might escape by tying him up and having others come pick him up, but still it seemed like a screw-up on Bond's part to kill a valuable informant.)
I agree with Gray Ghost; Bond had probably got everything he was going to get out of Dent. In fact, the whole point of letting Dent live as long as he did was to keep him talking. Bond deliberately let's him think he's got a chance to grab his gun and escape, and Dent answers Bond's questions as a stalling tactic. It's brilliant on Bond's part, but once Dent knows he's been played, it's over.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:33 AM
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Do we elsewhere see captured members of SPECTRE committing suicide?
The driver who’d picked up 007 at the airport earlier in that same movie did it.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:02 AM
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Do we elsewhere see captured members of SPECTRE committing suicide? It's a commercial criminal organization, not a ideological one. Dent might have committed suicide, but Bond didn't know that for sure. Basically, Bond just killed him in revenge because he was pissed off that Dent had tried to kill him. He didn't give any consideration to his possible intelligence value.
Once again, he did something similar in The Spy who Loved Me.
The guy was helpful. And helpless.
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:06 PM
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Do we elsewhere see captured members of SPECTRE committing suicide? It's a commercial criminal organization, not a ideological one. Dent might have committed suicide, but Bond didn't know that for sure. Basically, Bond just killed him in revenge because he was pissed off that Dent had tried to kill him. He didn't give any consideration to his possible intelligence value.
Isn't the first chauffeur that Bond gets a ride with from the airport an agent for Dr. No? He and Bond fight, he loses, and he kills himself before Bond can get anything out of him? Been awhile since I saw the movie, and I'm going by wiki's description of the plot.

You're right of course that killing a source before he can talk is remarkably stupid.

EDIT: what Waldo Pepper said upthread.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 09-02-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:23 PM
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Heck, it’s the point of the title: “Stuff my orders; I only kill professionals; that girl didn't know one end of a rifle from the other. Go ahead, tell M what you want; if he fires me, I'll thank him for it.” [pauses as he ponders what he did instead of killing her] “Whoever she was, I must have scared the living daylights out of her.”
In this case, the movie follows precisely the plot of the original story. In Fleming's short story, Bond did see the female assassin, who transported the gun in her instrument case, and adjusted his aim at the last second to avoid killing her. His companion noticed this and said he'd have to report Bond's actions, and Bond replied with pretty much the same words.
Correction: In the original story, the female sniper is a highly skilled professional, and Bond's aware of that.
Quote:
"They're mounting quite an operation [...] Put their best sniper on the job. All we know about him is that his code name is the Russian for 'Trigger'.

Had she carried her weapon to and fro every day in that 'cello case? Was the whole orchestra composed of KGB women? [...]

James Bond [...] looked Captain Sender straight in the eye:
"'Trigger' was a woman."
"So what? KGB have got plenty of women agents... and women gunners. [...] Donskaya and Lomova, terrific shots. She may even have been one of them." [...]

James Bond [...] suddenly didn't want to leave [...] the place from which, for three days, he had had this long-range, one-sided romance with [...] an enemy agent with much the same job in her outfit as he had in his. [...] She'd certainly be court-martialled for muffing this job. Probably be kicked out of the KGB. [...]

"[...] But tell Head of Station not to worry. That girl won't do any more sniping. Probably lost her left hand. Certainly broke her nerve for that kind of work. Scared the living daylights out of her."

Last edited by Kimstu; 09-02-2019 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:56 PM
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Given the main conflict involved in the movies, he probably should be so.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:58 AM
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And anyway in a list of “Most Assholish thing 007 has ever done”, Moore’s Bond has most of the spots sown up.
Not to disagree with your thesis, which I support, but #1 in the list has to be him rifling through the pockets of his long-time friend Mathis, just after the latter has been shot dead by corrupt Bolivian police. He takes the cash in the wallet then chucks the body in a nearby dumpster.

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It wasn't just cold-blooded, it seemed to me counterproductive. Bond had captured Dr. No's right-hand man. Surely it would have been better to take him into custody and interrogate him rather than kill him basically for spite. (One could argue that Bond didn't have time to take him in, and it was better to kill him than take a chance he might escape by tying him up and having others come pick him up, but still it seemed like a screw-up on Bond's part to kill a valuable informant.)
Oh sure, what could possibly go wrong with keeping your enemy alive when you had a golden opportunity to permanently dispose of them? Bond doesn't usually copy the mistakes of his enemies.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:04 AM
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Correction: In the original story, the female sniper is a highly skilled professional, and Bond's aware of that.
Agreed -- I was referring to the way he suddenly changed his aim and refused, against orders, to kill her.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:05 AM
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Ian Flemming's Bond was a cold blooded killer. Much like the early Connery and like Craig.

I thought that Roger Moore's Bond was a joke. Not sure if that was Moore or the producers, but I was very glad to see Moore gone.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:34 AM
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Even better in the movie, and it must have been shocking for a 1962 movie audience, Bond not only shoots the unarmed Dent, he puts another shot into his back to make sure Dent's dead. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cns2HKn0tDk
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Bond does essentially the same thing thing to Stromberg. Shoots him twice, even taunting him that he is out of ammo, then moves in closer for two further shots.

https://youtu.be/XbqxXFv1sik
Rule 2: Double tap.

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Ian Flem[]ing's Bond was a cold blooded killer. Much like the early Connery and like Craig....
Yes and no. I've been reading the early Fleming books recently, and what struck me most was how often Bond is described as scared or lonely or dejected. Not as cold-blooded as the movies make him seem.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:56 AM
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Not to disagree with your thesis, which I support, but #1 in the list has to be him rifling through the pockets of his long-time friend Mathis, just after the latter has been shot dead by corrupt Bolivian police. He takes the cash in the wallet then chucks the body in a nearby dumpster.
Cold, but then again, what could Bond have done differently? It's not like he could report it to the police, and I half suspected that the idea was for the corrupt cops to kill Mathis, and then frame Bond for the murder, when the body was found or something.

By tossing him in the dumpster, he took the body out of the equation and gave himself something of a head start.

Plus, Mathis knew the rules and knew that he ran no small risk of ending up in a landfill some day, just like Bond knows the same thing is true for himself as well.

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Old 09-03-2019, 12:45 PM
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Ian Flemming's Bond was a cold blooded killer. Much like the early Connery and like Craig.

I thought that Roger Moore's Bond was a joke. Not sure if that was Moore or the producers, but I was very glad to see Moore gone.
Come on dude. Moore's Bond regularly killed people who were defenceless, most of them had it coming, true, but people whose race was run.

To take an example, people hate on the "007 in a clown suit in Octopussey", but forget it was played dead seriously, he was trying to enter a circus undercover. Rewtach Goldfinger. It has pretty much all the elements that Moore's films was accused off, campy, a never ending parade of Dad jokes. Plus Bond spends a lot of time essentially trolling Goldfinger, and poorly, Goldfinger sees it a mile off and outright tells Bond to cut it out.
Awesome film regardless.
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat View Post
Not to disagree with your thesis, which I support, but #1 in the list has to be him rifling through the pockets of his long-time friend Mathis, just after the latter has been shot dead by corrupt Bolivian police. He takes the cash in the wallet then chucks the body in a nearby dumpster.
All the Bonds have their moments...but Moore's Bond leads the pack.

Quote:
Oh sure, what could possibly go wrong with keeping your enemy alive when you had a golden opportunity to permanently dispose of them? Bond doesn't usually copy the mistakes of his enemies.
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Rule 2: Double tap.
QFT

Quote:
Yes and no. I've been reading the early Fleming books recently, and what struck me most was how often Bond is described as scared or lonely or dejected. Not as cold-blooded as the movies make him seem.
Yes, but most of its internal monolouge. In the film, Bond does a very good job of hiding his emotions and remaining stoic and impassive, its notable the few times when it does come through. Usually when Tracy is mentioned
  #44  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:59 PM
AK84 is online now
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Moore did, however, hang on too long. I was surprised recently to realize that most of the Bond Girls in his era were not that young, despite my recollection.
Brit Ekland 30, as was Maud Adams, Barbera Bach, 31, Lois Chiles was 32, Tanya Roberts was 31, Grace Jones, 37. Bach and Ekland were mothers when they appeared. Compare Eva Greene who was 26, gemma Arterton 21, Izabella Scorupco, 25

Moore was just too dang old.
  #45  
Old 09-03-2019, 01:08 PM
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Agreed. He was looking like a senior citizen by the end.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Rewatching some of the Roger Moore era Bond films recently, its quite striking just how cold-blooded he can be, despite his era supposedly being more light-hearted.
I don't think it would be paradoxical to say that Moore's Bond was more cold-blooded because his films were more light-hearted.

Think about it. Though there was some variance in tone among films for every Bond portrayer, the Roger Moore era is easily the most cartoonish, with the least depth of character in both heroes and villains. Therefore, it's not as jarring to dispatch with two-dimendional characters more easily, or even in a joking manner, because they were never portrayed as relatable human beings in the first place.
  #47  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Connery was a street kid from Aberdeen and Lazenby was an Aussie special forcer. They could believably pull off a hand to hand fight to the death. The others not so much.
Wait, what!? Almost everything about Bond movies are not believable. Why would you care about the fight scenes?

I know I’m in the minority but for my money Moore was the quintessential Bond.
  #48  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:26 PM
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I would say that, in Bond's line of work, killing any "players" when you get a chance is a good thing. Nothing cold blooded about it, just good business. A dead foreign agent/SPECTRE henchman is one less person who is going to come after you later, one less person to deal with when you make the final assault on the volcano/secret underground lair/space station. They knew what they were getting into when they hired on. I don't know where they hire henchmen, but there must be a finite number of competent ones.

Killing civilians should be avoided.
  #49  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:08 AM
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In the last Ian Fleming James Bond novel, The Man with the Golden Gun, Bond has two chances to kill Scaramanga, which is supposed to be his mission, but he doesn't do it. One is when Scaramanga is driving off with Bond, and Bond doesn't shoot him in the back of the head because he would have to shoot the driver too, and because it is a nice evening (?!). Then later he could shoot Scaramanga when Scaramanga is bouncing on the trampoline, but also doesn't, for no particular reason. It works out OK, pretty much, mostly because of Bond's nearly unbroken streak of dumb luck. So, essentially, he is not cold-blooded enough.

Regards,
Shodan
  #50  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:41 AM
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He kills Doctor No by dumping birdshit on him. So sometimes yes sometimes no. (!)
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