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  #551  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Indeed, he was talking about the Oklahoma City bombing, the day after the consulate was attacked. Good catch!
9/11.
  #552  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:25 PM
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The right-wing echo machine's gonna have to come up with a new outrage tomorrow. Obama killed the Benghazi story dead tonight, while Romney pooped his pants over it.
The best part was Obama's saying "Please proceed governor" and Romney missing what should have been an obvious warning that he was being encouraged to walk right into a trap.
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  #553  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:25 PM
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9/11.
Which 9/11?
  #554  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:26 PM
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Actually, Crowley was wrong. She just scanned the transcript for "acts of terror" without checking the context.

Obama did not call the attack on the consulate an act of terror.
Nonsense, as note above.

I can see the right wing is already trying to spin this "acts of terror" aren't the same as "terrorist acts" bullshit.
  #555  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:26 PM
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CBS Poll of undecided voters: 37% say Obama won, 30% Romney.
I bet that makes some head spins around here.
  #556  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
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The context:

Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.
  #557  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
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He was referring to 9/11. If he did intend to call the attack on the consulate an act of terror, and in fairness his statement could be interpreted that way, he could have been clearer.

The fact that the adminstration continued to push the video story for a long time after that statement, and in that same Rose Garden speech, would tend to indicate that he was not referring to the Benghazi attack as an act of terror.
I think Romney is on the wrong track over quibbling about whether Obama called it an "act of terror." Whether the attack was over the video or because the perpetrators simply hated America, those are both acts of terror.

The problem is that for two weeks Obama and his minions kept blaming the video and saying that there was a protest outside the embassy. There was no protest and it wasn't about the video. That puts the failed intel squarely on him and deserves a discussion of what happened, not just an admission of fault by Obama. One that Crowley cut short in her effort to help Obama.
  #558  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaher View Post
He was referring to 9/11. If he did intend to call the attack on the consulate an act of terror, and in fairness his statement could be interpreted that way, he could have been clearer.
First, Romney didn't say "you should have been clearer." He said the president hadn't called it terrorism.

Second:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama
Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
I've edited down the transcript in the way that I think is most favorable to your claim, and your claim is still ridiculous. Look at the rest of the paragraph for which the "act of terror" sentence is the topic. It's all about what just happened, calls it a terrible act and talks about how we won't waver in our commitment: in other words, it elaborates on the topic.

There is no way that this can be fairly interpreted as referring to 9/11 and not the previous day's attack. (It can be interpreted as referring to both, of course, but not exclusively the former.)

Edit: ninja'ed by your quoting--except that, in order to buttress your interpretation, you had to cut off the rest of that paragraph. Verrrrry interesting. Did you do that yourself, or did you get it from a blog?

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 10-16-2012 at 10:29 PM.
  #559  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
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Uh - oh, Anderson Cooper just threw some cold water on Obama's spin of the Benghazi exchange
  #560  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:28 PM
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Nonsense, as note above.

I can see the right wing is already trying to spin this "acts of terror" aren't the same as "terrorist acts" bullshit.
An act of terror caused by a video? Do they really want to make this their story?
  #561  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:28 PM
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Candy was more firm with Romney than Obama, although it's not clear if this is due to her being annoyed with Romney's behavior or whether she felt it was needed to keep the debate moving along. ...
It was because Romney challenged her more and talked over her more then Obama did.
  #562  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:29 PM
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He was referring to 9/11.
Er, yes, that was when the Benghazi attack happened, so we're not talking about two utterly disconnected realities.
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  #563  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:29 PM
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I've occasionally wondered what would happen if they just … lost it. Say, right in the middle of the debate, a coincidental consilience of conditions just correct to cause craziness in the candidates. Obama suffers a neurological reaction to prednisone (or something); Romney undergoes a disorienting petit-mal seizure with temporary amnesia.

Filled with rage he can no longer discern the reasons for, Obama leaps on Romney and Romney returns fire. For the split second it takes secret service to separate them, they're screaming and spitting and smashing and tearing at each other's hair. Black eyes and bite marks. Torn neckties.

Would the country ever live it down? Dunno. But man, it would've been awesome.
The best part would be Biden running into the ring with a folding chair.
  #564  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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My analysis: Obama won. Obama's performance today made me wonder if the first debate was a feint.
I kind of thought that Obama might have pulled punches in the first debate to keep SuperPAC money with Romney and prevent it from going to down ticket races instead.
  #565  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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Is the whole freakin' debate going to boil down to the Libya terrorist remark???
  #566  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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Well, I guess we know what the right-wing spin is going to be. It didn't even take until tomorrow.
  #567  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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It was because Romney challenged her more and talked over her more then Obama did.
He learned from Gingrich that attacking the moderator plays well.

When will Republican politicians ever learn to take responsibility for their lives?
  #568  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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Romney: "If the illegals can't get jobs and benefits here, they'll make the decision to go where they have more opportunity."

WTF??
Cool new slogan:

AMERICA!!!

LAND
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Misery and hardship. Seriously, don't bother.
  #569  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:31 PM
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Here is the transcipt of Obama's comments on SEptember 12:

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/09/12...-libya-attack/

In context he is clearly referring to the attack as one of a set of "acts of terror."
  #570  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 PM
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And 33% are undecided. Why do we even ask these idiots?
Because they are Americans!
  #571  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 PM
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An act of terror caused by a video? Do they really want to make this their story?
Please proceed adaher....
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Last edited by Steve MB; 10-16-2012 at 10:32 PM.
  #572  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 PM
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Yeah, reading that transcript it's pretty obviously referring to both events, and to terrorist acts generally. I don't get how someone can read it any other way. (I also don't see what the importance of that specific wording is.)
  #573  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:33 PM
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Clear winner tonight: Candy Crowley's hairdo.
  #574  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:33 PM
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What was Obama's comment on the 47%?
Ah, finally found a complete transcript, courtesy of the Washington Post. Here are the President's last remarks, which were also the last word of the debate:

Quote:
OBAMA: Barry, I think a lot of this campaign, maybe over the last four years, has been devoted to this [notion] that I think government creates jobs, that that somehow is the answer.

That’s not what I believe. I believe that the free enterprise system is the greatest engine of prosperity the world’s ever known.

I believe in self-reliance and individual initiative and risk takers being rewarded. But I also believe that everybody should have a fair shot and everybody should do their fair share and everybody should play by the same rules, because that’s how our economy’s grown. That’s how we built the world’s greatest middle class.

And — and that is part of what’s at stake in this election. There’s a fundamentally different vision about how we move our country forward.

I believe Governor Romney is a good man. Loves his family, cares about his faith. But I also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47 percent of the country considered themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about.

Folks on Social Security who’ve worked all their lives. Veterans who’ve sacrificed for this country. Students who are out there trying to hopefully advance their own dreams, but also this country’s dreams. Soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now. People who are working hard every day, paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don’t make enough income.

And I want to fight for them. That’s what I’ve been doing for the last four years. Because if they succeed, I believe the country succeeds.

When my grandfather fought in World War II and he came back and he got a G.I. Bill and that allowed him to go to college, that wasn’t a handout. That was something that advanced the entire country. And I want to make sure that the next generation has those same opportunities. That’s why I’m asking for your vote and that’s why I’m asking for another four years.
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  #575  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:33 PM
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CNN has it at Obama 46% to 39% Romney. That's a win, but just barely.
  #576  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:34 PM
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When will Republican politicians ever learn to take responsibility for their lives?
Well, 53% of them do.
  #577  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:34 PM
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CNN poll of registered voters: 46% Obama, 39% Romney.

73% say Obama did better than expected, vs. 37% who say Romney did better than expected.

Poll sample: 33% Democrat, 33% Republican, 34% other.
  #578  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 PM
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For the record, what did you object to with respect to how Crowley handled the Libya exchange?
To begin the debate, she clearly stated that the crowd should not clap or boo. After Obama gave his line about calling Libya a terrorist attack directly after the incident and Romney was going to call him out on it, she interjected, running to Obama's defense (btw, he did lie as the original story was that it was a spontaneous attack spurred by the anti-Islamic video), after which the crowd starting clapping her.

That actually pissed me off, quite honestly.
  #579  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:36 PM
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Is the whole freakin' debate going to boil down to the Libya terrorist remark???
It was great video. It'll be viral within the hour. The President presented Romney with a pile of dog shit on the floor and invited him to step in it, which Romney promptly did.

You had to watch the whole Denver debate to understand why Obama lost it. This is a 20 second soundbite that will be on every news show for a few days.
  #580  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:36 PM
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Mitt's Assault Weapon flip-flop has been so well-documented that he really should just be a man and OWN UP TO IT. Also most American don't give a rat's ass about the Fast and Furious scandal. Gun violence, particularly urban shootings and mass killings are a huge issue for the US of A.

Anyway, Romney's pandering is disgusting. I have never seen any politician as disingenuous and slippery as he his.

I would respect the man a lot more if he just held true to his own convictions, not that that would change my vote.

Idiot.
  #581  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:37 PM
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Like I said, Obama's definitely fired up his base something fierce tonight. That can do nothing but good things for his reelection chances.
  #582  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:38 PM
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(btw, he did lie as the original story was that it was a spontaneous attack spurred by the anti-Islamic video), after which the crowd starting clapping her.
What, specifically, was the lie he told?
  #583  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:40 PM
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This is a 20 second soundbite that will be on every news show for a few days.
With what results?
  #584  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Omg a Black Conservative View Post
To begin the debate, she clearly stated that the crowd should not clap or boo. After Obama gave his line about calling Libya a terrorist attack directly after the incident and Romney was going to call him out on it, she interjected, running to Obama's defense (btw, he did lie as the original story was that it was a spontaneous attack spurred by the anti-Islamic video), after which the crowd starting clapping her.

That actually pissed me off, quite honestly.
There was a second moment during the debate that the audience also clapped. (Can't recall it off-hand.) The audience was not clapping her.
  #585  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:41 PM
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It was great video. It'll be viral within the hour. The President presented Romney with a pile of dog shit on the floor and invited him to step in it, which Romney promptly did.

You had to watch the whole Denver debate to understand why Obama lost it. This is a 20 second soundbite that will be on every news show for a few days.
Also, "I'm here."

Last edited by Kozmik; 10-16-2012 at 10:44 PM.
  #586  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:42 PM
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CNN interviewing Ohio undecideds.
  #587  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Omg a Black Conservative View Post
To begin the debate, she clearly stated that the crowd should not clap or boo. After Obama gave his line about calling Libya a terrorist attack directly after the incident and Romney was going to call him out on it, she interjected, running to Obama's defense (btw, he did lie as the original story was that it was a spontaneous attack spurred by the anti-Islamic video), after which the crowd starting clapping her.

That actually pissed me off, quite honestly.
I bet it did.
  #588  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:43 PM
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Well that didn't take long:

Binders Full of Women
  #589  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Omg a Black Conservative View Post
To begin the debate, she clearly stated that the crowd should not clap or boo. After Obama gave his line about calling Libya a terrorist attack directly after the incident and Romney was going to call him out on it, she interjected, running to Obama's defense (btw, he did lie as the original story was that it was a spontaneous attack spurred by the anti-Islamic video), after which the crowd starting clapping her.

That actually pissed me off, quite honestly.
That was the most outrageous part of her "moderation." A debate is between the candidates. If Romney says that Obama said that he would round up and execute all white people, it is up to Obama to refute that, not the moderator. The moderator is simply there to enforce the debate rules, which she did not do by allowing Obama to speak for 4 more minutes than Romney.
  #590  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:45 PM
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There was a second moment during the debate that the audience also clapped. (Can't recall it off-hand.)
That was the only time during the debate I can recall that happening. When was the other time?

Quote:
The audience was not clapping her.
Who were they clapping for? The Easter Bunny?
  #591  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:45 PM
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Was it a debate rule that both candidates were to speak for exactly the same time?

Last edited by BlackKnight; 10-16-2012 at 10:46 PM.
  #592  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:47 PM
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That was the only time during the debate I can recall that happening. When was the other time?
It was mentioned when CNN interviewed the Moderator. Again, I cannot recall it. Hopefully, someone can fact check it.

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Who were they clapping for? The Easter Bunny?
Big Bird.
  #593  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:49 PM
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The Republicans should totally run with the "It's not Candy Crowley's job to point out Mitt Romney's lies" story. It's probably the break the Romney campaign has been waiting for.
  #594  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:49 PM
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A second thing, does anyone else think this whole Benghazi security failure is a complete waste of time? Four American died, clearly someone screwed up with the intel. But this hardly qualifies as a failure of the President. Nothing to see here, keep it moving.

1473 Americans have died in Afghanistan since Obama took office. Tens of thousands of Afghan civilians. And yet all quiet from the pundits and press.....
  #595  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:50 PM
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That was the only time during the debate I can recall that happening. When was the other time?
There was another time that about two people started to clap (like they'd forgotten the rules) and then quickly stopped. Obama had just finished a kind of long slam on Romney, but I can't remember which one it was. I'm 80% certain that it was after the half way point.
  #596  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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I am stuck at work now. I went on break and in the back was Fox News. Needless to say, I got a panel of suppose id impartial and undecided voters, none of them have anything good to say about Obama and commented how much they loved Mister Romney.

So I don't know who actually won the debate, but I know very well that I'm glad I usually don't watch Fox News.
  #597  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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The best part was Obama's saying "Please proceed governor" and Romney missing what should have been an obvious warning that he was being encouraged to walk right into a trap.
I thought that was one of the coolest fucking things ever. Romney's staring at Obama with that weasel shit sucking look on his face badgering about "You did? You did? I just wanted to get that on on the record."

And Obama just looks at him coolly and commands him to proceed.

Awesome!

I really believe that this is where the right wing disconnection from reality does them a disservice. They believe this shit. They all sit around telling each other things that are not true and convincing each other that the lack of corroboration from outside sources is a product of colluding forces.

Then they have their candidate step on his dick on national tv as a result.
  #598  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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Unfortunately I missed the debate - but seeing the commentary here is very reassuring and makes me happy.

Obama seems to have totally owned this one - I do hope it leads to a poll bounce, especially on the back of Ryan being exposed last week by Biden.
  #599  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:53 PM
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Dems now complaining about poll over-sampling?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:53 PM
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Who were they clapping for? The Easter Bunny?
They were clapping for the truth.
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