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  #51  
Old 06-14-2014, 05:00 PM
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My top 5 would have to be something like this;

5) Hulk Hogan beats Sgt. Slaughter at Wrestlemania VII, thus winning back the title and singlehandedly winning the Gulf War for America.
4) "It's me, Austin! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, AUSTIN!"
3) The Rock vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 18.
2) Being in the second row live for the Raw in Seattle last year, where the main event Cena/Orton promo got completely derailed because we wouldn't stop cheering for Daniel Bryan.
1) Bryan beating Triple H at Wrestlemania this year, then getting off a stretcher in the main event and beating Orton and Batista to become champion.
I can't find any online video of Bryan, how good is he? I know he won wrestler awards of the year like 10 times and is considered a technician, but I just can't locate any good tape of him.

Between say Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, or Shawn Michaels, how would he rank?
  #52  
Old 06-14-2014, 05:06 PM
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For certain, he's right up there with those guys.
  #53  
Old 06-14-2014, 05:22 PM
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Bryan started out at Shawn Michaels' school and trained under William Regal later on. He's definitely the best technician in WWE today, and he does his fair share of high-flying too (though he may have to tone that down when he comes back from his neck injury).

If you don't have WWE Network, Youtube has plenty of videos from his ROH days, when he was wrestling under his real name, Bryan Danielson. There's plenty of really great clips of him wrestling other future WWE stars such as CM Punk, Tyler Black (Seth Rollins), Brodie Lee (Luke Harper), etc.
  #54  
Old 06-14-2014, 06:39 PM
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Mine

10. Daniel Bryan and Kane undergoing couples therapy --- I thought those two could have a sitcom. Kane was delightfully sick and twisted. Bryan had a prissy heel persona at the time, and he kept whining every time Kane upset him.
9. Bobby "The Brain" Heenan's feud with the Big Boss Man --- Heenan kept making cracks on commentary about Bossman's mom being fat white trash, and Bossman kept wanting to kill him. I thought it was Heenan's finest hour in Weaseldom, when he couldn't understand why Bossman handcuffed him to the barricade and no one would help him.
8. CM Punk's epic feud with Paul Heyman --- both are gods on the mike
7. Bray Wyatt surrounds John Cena with creepy children who sing "Whole World In His Hands" and then put on sheep masks. So symbolic, like Bergman hehehehe
6. Brock Lesnar superflexes the Big Show and the ring falls apart --- OK, they rigged it, but it was still spectacular
5. Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy --- I like it when super heavyweights have noisy matches. It's like watching rhinos stampede.
4. Elimination Chamber, the Wyatt Family vs. The Shield --- awesome match with excellent ring psychology, and strong showing from future megastars
3. Mankind hosts "This Is Your Life" with special guest The Rock --- the actors they had playing people from the Rock's past supposedly had no idea he was going to humiliate them like that
2. The storyline where Mr. MacMahon was in the hospital --- Mankind visits him to try to cheer him up, and debuts Mr. Socko. MacMahon's disgusted facial expressions are priceless. In the last segment, MacMahon's doctor has his back to the camera, turns around and it's Stone Steve Cold Austin and he beats the shiite out of MacMahon.
1. Mankind's near suicidal HellinaCell match with Undertaker --- Foley said afterward that everybody always asks him "Did it hurt?" He said no, because he was unconscious the whole time.
  #55  
Old 06-14-2014, 10:06 PM
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Top 5!

5. Watching Goldberg with the WCW Championship at Starrcade

4. Playing the old WWF arcade game. I was always Dink

3. Watching Ultimate Warrior run to the ring. Every. Single. Time.

2. Having my heart break when Rollins chaired the crap out of Reigns and Ambrose

1. Daniel Bryan doing his yes chant, in a cage, after "turning" on Bray Wyatt. Start at 3:20 in this video I just got goosebumps and still do.
  #56  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:26 AM
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Darn it, they couldn't. have waited until after WWE 2K15's release to break up The Shield?! I wanted to play The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family; hopefully that's still on the table.

Ladder match participants are still in the air, but actually I'd love to see Bray Wyatt win the title. Though he IS starting to get a little stale. I know he's being told to do this, but "The Whole World in His Hands" is not creeping me out anymore. You're overusing it!

Some of my favorite moments as a wrestling fan, in no particular order.

1. After Scott Hall won the US Title in a ladder match in Indianapolis, he gazed out at the crowd, saw me giving the Wolfpack salute, and gave his signature "I'm just oozing machsimo" shrug.

2. Watching Stone Cold win his 6th, ultimately last, WWF Championship from Kurt Angle (again, I was there)

3. Lex Luger winning the WCW Championship from Hollywood Hogan

4. The WrestleMania XX main event, made harsher by hindsight I'm afraid

5. Daniel Bryan pinning Triple H, and then tapping Batista, to win the WWE Championship at WrestleMania XXX
  #57  
Old 06-17-2014, 08:21 AM
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1. Mankind's near suicidal HellinaCell match with Undertaker --- Foley said afterward that everybody always asks him "Did it hurt?" He said no, because he was unconscious the whole time.
If you ever get a chance to, I seriously encourage you to check out Mick Foley's standup/spoken word show, "Tales of Wrestling Past". I saw it this past February (here's me posing with him at a pre-show photo op as proof) and I wasn't even really watching WWF at the peak of Mick's career, but I found it to be a really insightful look at the business in addition to being downright hilarious. A big part of the show revolves around the match you mentioned, and his memories of it (to the extent that he could piece them together by watching the tape afterward), and there are a lot of other interesting anecdotes he tosses out in the course of things as well.
  #58  
Old 06-17-2014, 09:09 AM
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So our field for the Money in the Bank match is set, who do we think is winning it?

My vote is either Cena or Orton (and maybe even both and split the belts again). I think everyone else just isn't ready yet, although of the field that aren't those two...I'd go with Reigns.
  #59  
Old 06-17-2014, 10:46 AM
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If you ever get a chance to, I seriously encourage you to check out Mick Foley's standup/spoken word show, "Tales of Wrestling Past". I saw it this past February (here's me posing with him at a pre-show photo op as proof) and I wasn't even really watching WWF at the peak of Mick's career, but I found it to be a really insightful look at the business in addition to being downright hilarious. A big part of the show revolves around the match you mentioned, and his memories of it (to the extent that he could piece them together by watching the tape afterward), and there are a lot of other interesting anecdotes he tosses out in the course of things as well.
I did see that show! Foley was a class act and a true gentleman.

He took us by surprise when he said that during the HIAC match, UT stood over him with his hair hiding his face so the audience wouldn't see them talking, and said in a cheerful voice, "Hi buddy? How's it going?" (Actually he said "Go home," which meant "take the fall and end the match.")

I also liked the story about the making of the Chef Boyardee commercials. He said the director took the crew to a zoo and asked Foley, "Do you think you can get this giraffe to chase you holding that can of ravioli?" Foley said "No." The director asked why, and Foley said "Because giraffes are herbivores."
  #60  
Old 06-17-2014, 10:48 AM
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My vote is either Cena or Orton (and maybe even both and split the belts again). I think everyone else just isn't ready yet, although of the field that aren't those two...I'd go with Reigns.
I can see two guys grabbing a belt each. That's a true WWE screw.
  #61  
Old 06-17-2014, 07:05 PM
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I'm going to go with splitting the titles. Why else haven't they gotten rid of the two belts and moved to a single belt?

But we have;

Faces

Cena - incredibly stale, but Vince's workhorse. I'd say he gets one of them, if not the whole biscuit.

Sheamus - Wandering a-midcard. Could use the boost. He's effectively the #3 face in the company right now, but you'd hardly know it for Vince's infamous creative failures.

Reigns - too green, too new. Not his time yet.

Heels

Orton - also incredibly stale. I wouldn't put it past them to put one of the belts on him and have DBD chase it when he returns, which would be a total repeat of 2013's overplayed feud. Maybe if Trips and Nips stayed out of it and let Orton run his own show, but still..... Nah!

Wyatt - also very new. Played well with Cena though. I can see them hot-shotting one of the titles on him and then having DBD chase it.

ADR - on his way out the door (contract ending soon). No chance.

Cesaro - Another 'too new' person. Only way I can see it working would be a hotshot angle where he gets one of the belts and then turns on Heyman to become the face the crowd wants him to be. Neither the heel bit nor Heyman is working for him right now.


If I was booking it, I'd book a double turn. Sheamus goes heel, Cesaro goes face. Cesaro and Wyatt grab the titles (totally fresh champs). Both would be the usual, fairly short 'test the waters' title reigns.

Cesaro can feud with Sheamus or Orton before dropping it to one of them, who can then feud with Cena. In which case I'd prefer it be Sheamus, with Orton feuding with Reigns over the summer.

At Battleground in late July, DBD earns his right to face Wyatt at Summerslam in August, where he wins back the title to end the show. In the mean time, Wyatt can screw over challenger after challenger with the help of Harper and Rowan.
  #62  
Old 06-18-2014, 01:45 PM
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It was announced last night that a traditional MITB match has been added to the PPV. Rollins is already entered, so expect Ambrose to somehow get added, along with the usual suspects (RVD, BNB, Ziggler) and hopefully Dallas and Rusev.
  #63  
Old 06-18-2014, 05:34 PM
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You know, they've been showing the two belts suspended over the ring for weeks. I suspect two separate wrestlers come down with each belt and the title gets split again. It honestly makes no sense to keep the unified title as two belts unless you intend to split it at some point again.

I consider the golden ages of wrestling to be: Pre-WWF Territory days (I was in the Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling region and loved going to their shows, seeing wrestling live is what made me a fan), post-Hogan WWF (incl WCW post-NWO) up through 2002. So basically the Hogan era I really disliked, and then I consider the product to have become unwatchable in 2002.

I started watching again "full time" (meaning I regularly catch a weekly show) about 3 months ago. I have to admit with the WWE Network I've watched some of the big PPV matches I missed and some of them make me wish I hadn't taken such a long hiatus (Michaels vs Undertaker at WM25 for example is amazing, even John Cena vs CM Punk at MitB 2011 was also very good.) I'm not sure if maybe the product in general was good from 2003-2013, but that is the period I didn't watch.

Anyway, current wrestlers/gimmicks I like:

-Rusev - He's quite athletic for a 300 pound guy and I love the old school, 1980s or even 1970s style nationalist furor gimmick.

-Bray Wyatt/Wyatt Family - They have the feel of an "old school" heel stable, and all three of them can actually wrestle in the ring.

-Bad News Barrett - He sells really well but relies a bit too much on repetitive moves in the ring, but I like his "presence" and his mic work. Funny and obnoxious at the same time.

-Daniel Bryan - I really like his charisma and in ring stuff, the actual lines he's been saying aren't so good and I don't think Daniel is a very good "actor", but he's fun to watch in the ring. His wife is even worse and probably should never speak in public.

-Seth Rollins - I only started to like him after the heel turn. I hate to say it but I *did not* like the Shield. Story wise and promo wise they were just boring, and I felt that while there was some wrestling talent/promo talent within the shield a stable like that is very limiting to a wrestler's character development if you're trying to turn all three into stars. A stable of genuine stars can work if it's formed after they are already established (sort of like the various iterations of the Four Horsemen, or even D-X or NWO), but otherwise it destroys the individuality of the group.

-Dean Ambrose - Again, I've only started liking him after Seth Rollins heel turn in the past couple of weeks, as they've shown him doing stuff by himself.

Dislikes:

The quality of the wrestling is not good and the storytelling isn't either (and they go hand in hand.) I don't actually think it's a lack of talent, but just some problems in how WWE wants its matches to look these days.

My big complaint is this is professional wrestling, not fake MMA why does every single wrestler have a "strike" finisher? It was fine when it was just Shawn with his super kick, but now it's Big Show, BNB, Roman Reigns, Sheamus etc. Way too many strike finishers in what is supposed to be a wrestling match.

Additionally, what happened to telling a story in the ring? A match that actually progresses in a certain direction, has ups and downs, and where the wrestlers use wrestling moves to actually tell the story? I've said I like Seth/Ambrose, and that's because I see that they have some talent. But I think part of the reason I disliked the Shield is their matches had no flow whatsoever, they'd get beat up a little bit then do a high spot (which looks fancy, but jumping out of the ring and landing on someone involves primarily talent on the receiving guy to make sure he is in position, it's not skilled work otherwise) and a series of finishers from the individual wrestlers and then they win.

This is honestly how almost all face vs heel matches go. The face doesn't utilize many moves and just squashes the heel with a few big finisher-style shenanigans. No story is built, no struggle is going on etc. I'm not saying this is all matches, but it's certainly most of them.

I don't think the WWE really knows how to properly use heels any longer. Heels are supposed to get heat by either being monster heels (like Kane used to be, or Undertaker) meaning they destroy everyone or they are dirty heels (ex Flair). Instead the one heel still billed as a "monster" on the top of the card is Kane, and he just gets beat up by DB or John Cena every time they brush near him. The original Kane beat up everyone, including SCSA and the Rock. He got up from multiple finishers (in an era when no one, other than occasionally the Taker got up from a single finisher), and shrugged off chair shots like they were nothing. That's how you create/maintain a monster heel, not by having him get his ass whipped every night.

Not to mention, what happened to heels actually occasionally getting over on the faces? That's how you build heat for the big matches. How interesting is it really for John Cena and Bray to square off in a last man standing match when Cena has gotten the better of Bray on virtually every episode of Raw and at WM30? The cage match where Bray beat John notwithstanding, but it was done in a way that made Cena look far more powerful than Bray.

Does no one at WWE remember when Austin would get his ass whipped by the corporation, his belt taken unfairly etc, and then brawl back to win at the big PPVs? That was given power because Austin had been unfairly beaten down several times leading up to it. If Austin had never been touched and just killed everyone constantly, what's the suspense/pay off to a PPV?

The only heel they are truly using effectively is Rusev, but he's still very low/early mid card and will be for awhile. It's only vaguely clear who is a face/heel between Sheamus/BNB/Cesaro (mid card guys who have been fighting each other), as they all get cheers and boos. I think part of the reason BNB gets a good bit of cheers despite being presented as a heel is he actually gets mic time, another problem WWE has is almost none of the mid card has mic time or even gets to work a storyline. WWE used to have stories for the entire card, now it's really just the top card that has any kind of story.
  #64  
Old 06-18-2014, 06:41 PM
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I'm going to go with splitting the titles. Why else haven't they gotten rid of the two belts and moved to a single belt?
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You know, they've been showing the two belts suspended over the ring for weeks. I suspect two separate wrestlers come down with each belt and the title gets split again. It honestly makes no sense to keep the unified title as two belts unless you intend to split it at some point again.
I get the feeling that they're keeping the two belts for practical/sentimental reasons more than any long-term agenda (mainly because they don't seem to HAVE a long-term agenda) right now;

1) The current WWE belt is only about a year old and they don't want to commission a new design so soon
2) Triple H is an NWA fanboy and doesn't want to retire the gold belt
  #65  
Old 06-18-2014, 09:44 PM
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Does no one at WWE remember when Austin would get his ass whipped by the corporation, his belt taken unfairly etc, and then brawl back to win at the big PPVs? That was given power because Austin had been unfairly beaten down several times leading up to it. If Austin had never been touched and just killed everyone constantly, what's the suspense/pay off to a PPV?
But today's audience is not the same as it was in the 80s or 90s. People were absolutely ripping into the WWE for not giving the strap to Bryan before they did.
  #66  
Old 06-18-2014, 11:14 PM
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So, for anyone who watched this week's Raw, what do you think of Cody Rhodes' new gimmick, "Stardust"? I'm personally a bit apprehensive about it, but he seemed to be having fun with the role and I want to see where they go with it, especially since Goldust himself hasn't been very "bizarre" lately.

Last edited by Smapti; 06-18-2014 at 11:15 PM.
  #67  
Old 06-19-2014, 08:29 AM
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I'm not sure the Stardust gimmick has legs... Mick Foley could change angles every week and pull it off because he was Mick Foley. Golddust got over because he stepped completely out of Dusty Rhodes's shadow. Cody is essentially copying what Dustin did, so there's nothing new and earth-shattering about it.

Then consider the face team formula: typically, one face works most of the match, getting beat up by the heels until he hot-tags the partner who comes in to save the day. If Cody gets relegated to the fall guy role, his metamorphosis won't seem like it's all that. If he becomes the invincible rescuer, it won't seem genuine because he was always the fall guy before.

Still, WWE needs more tag teams, and Cody + Golddust is better than either as a single career. They will probably be feuding with the Wyatts, especially if Bray's boys win the titles next PPV.
  #68  
Old 06-19-2014, 08:34 AM
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I'm not sure the Stardust gimmick has legs... Mick Foley could change angles every week and pull it off because he was Mick Foley. Golddust got over because he stepped completely out of Dusty Rhodes's shadow. Cody is essentially copying what Dustin did, so there's nothing new and earth-shattering about it.

Then consider the face team formula: typically, one face works most of the match, getting beat up by the heels until he hot-tags the partner who comes in to save the day. If Cody gets relegated to the fall guy role, his metamorphosis won't seem like it's all that. If he becomes the invincible rescuer, it won't seem genuine because he was always the fall guy before.

Still, WWE needs more tag teams, and Cody + Golddust is better than either as a single career. They will probably be feuding with the Wyatts, especially if Bray's boys win the titles next PPV.

Back when they were The Brotherhood (a GREAT tag team name and gimmick IMO) Goldy was always the one who took the hits and then Cody would come save the day, I can't imagine them switching that role.

I also agree that the WWE needs more tag teams. Even if they are faction type teams (Shield, Evolution, Wyatts) they should have more teams. I like the tag team format the best and I think that it a title that's slowly going away. Keep The Brotherhood as is, Keep the Usos if you need to..hell even bring up The Ascension (a team I've never cared for) just to keep it alive.

Edit: That being said I laughed my ever-loving ass off when Stardust appeared and it was Cody. I don't think the gimmick will last, but hot damn did I love it for the one match

Last edited by Sir T-Cups; 06-19-2014 at 08:37 AM.
  #69  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:07 AM
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I've always heard that for whatever reason Vince doesn't like tag teams or tag team matches very much. Now he's always understood they are part of wrestling, but I think as he faces much less competition these days he maybe hasn't felt the need to keep the tag team division as robust as it once was.

I can definitely see them fixing this if they utilize Rowan and Harper as a tag team and keep bushing the Usos, Goldust/Stardust, Rybaxle etc.

One complaint I also have is the booking in current WWE has too many nonsense rules matches. Don't book a "no-disqualification" tag team match. It destroys the concept of a tag team match and just turns it into a Texas Tornado match or a brawl. Which is fine, but if that's what you want book it that way. Without DQs then it's nonsense to book it as a tag team match.

The final match between Evolution and Shield, which was a Survivor Series style elimination tag match suffered from this in that basically all three wrestlers were fighting each other the entire time. I'm not saying I dislike that, but that's basically the format for the Evolution vs. Shield match at Extreme Rules, and didn't need repeated for Payback. I think WWE needs to remember there is a balance between out of ring and in ring, and really good drama can be created inside the ring. An ostensibly tag match where you never know who is the legal man because all six wrestlers have been fighting the entire time all over the stadium is confusing and not actually all that interesting to me. I was a much bigger fan of the match at Extreme Rules because it at least made sense, we knew it wasn't in the six man tag team format so we knew basically you'd need a large number of wrestlers away from the ring to see a pinfall because otherwise they'd interfere to stop it.

The John Cena vs Bray Wyatt cage match at Extreme Rules was also hurt by bad match rules. It was a traditional cage match in which you could win via escaping the cage, but you could also win via pinfall or submission. Okay...why? Don't give them pinfall/submission and then show John Cena land multiple finishers on Bray and then struggle to fight through the rest of the Wyatt family to escape, because that's retarded. All Cena had to do was pin Bray, and the cage would have stopped the Wyatt family from getting in to break up the pinfall. Wrestling is supposed to make internal sense or you might as well not do it.
  #70  
Old 06-19-2014, 11:13 AM
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I started watching again "full time" (meaning I regularly catch a weekly show) about 3 months ago. I have to admit with the WWE Network I've watched some of the big PPV matches I missed and some of them make me wish I hadn't taken such a long hiatus (Michaels vs Undertaker at WM25 for example is amazing, even John Cena vs CM Punk at MitB 2011 was also very good.) I'm not sure if maybe the product in general was good from 2003-2013, but that is the period I didn't watch.The quality of the wrestling is not good and the storytelling isn't either (and they go hand in hand.) I don't actually think it's a lack of talent, but just some problems in how WWE wants its matches to look these days.

Additionally, what happened to telling a story in the ring?

WWE used to have stories for the entire card, now it's really just the top card that has any kind of story.
There's some great matches from 2002-2013. Anything with HBK is going to steal the show, as always. Watch him vs Kurt Angle or the one where he wrestled HHH and Benoit.

The late 90s was when they stopped telling stories in the ring. That's why I hated the Attitude Era. The New Generation had people like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart tearing down the house in the ring. The AE changed it so they would give a 30 minute promo and then a 5 minute match.

The New Generation was bad about having stories for the undercard too. Raw would open with a non-title tag team match, then a decent midcard match, then the current champ wrestling a local jobber. That was how I remember most 1 hour Raw episodes.
  #71  
Old 06-19-2014, 11:30 AM
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The late 90s was when they stopped telling stories in the ring. That's why I hated the Attitude Era. The New Generation had people like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart tearing down the house in the ring. The AE changed it so they would give a 30 minute promo and then a 5 minute match.
I think this is a repeat of arguments I had on Internet wrestling discussion groups back in the AE, which I loved. I have to disagree, most of the top talent in the AE were very good at telling a story in the ring. SCSA, Mick, Rock, HHH, Undertaker, Kane.

Probably the worst major stars I can think of would be the New Age Outlaws who both couldn't really wrestle but were big because of their participation in the outlandish D-X promos. But to me the AE includes Bret and Shawn, Bret after he left for WCW basically was no longer a major force in wrestling because WCW didn't use him properly, but his feud with Austin produced great matches and I view those as the earliest AE matches. Shawn was involved in the first year or so of the AE before he had to go into (temporary) retirement due to his back injuries.

I do think if you give Austin's matches a fair reviewing (and I've watched a few on the WWE Network), Austin did very well in the ring when he converted to his brawling style. I'll admit to having a preference for guys that do more skilled wrestling work (like Shawn or Bret--or like Austin did pre-neck injury or in WCW) but Austin wasn't just a repetitive brawler, he was actually stringing together things in a way that made sense and told a story--something Hogan basically has never done.

To me the worst "stars" were all in WCW, Goldberg had no business being in a wrestling ring. I think he injured like 10 guys during his "streak" and later ended Bret's career because he couldn't deliver a simple kick without hurting someone. Nash in WCW was a pure promo guy that honestly had very bad matches (I liked Nash as a big man as Diesel but I think he either got lazy in the ring or wasn't in the shape he was in WWE in WCW.) Hogan was a joke in the ring for WCW, Luger was awful. The only top card wrestlers who I felt still put on a good match in WCW were Macho Man and Sting, but they utilized Sting too sparingly on TV for a long time for reasons I've never fully understood--Sting needed to be wrestling matches not hanging out in rafters (maybe he was nursing an injury, I can't remember.)

Anyway, I just have always felt AE had very good in ring work, because all of its stars were basically hungry young guys that knew how to wrestle. WCW was relying too much on old talent that had gotten lazy in the ring and guys like Goldberg that had never been good. WCW did have a ton (more than WWE) talent in the mid and low cards,but WCW didn't care about its undercard at all.

The one real knock I can see against the AE is sometimes on a 3 hour raw you'd lose 60-70 minutes to nonsense segments, back room promos etc. But when they actually were in the ring (and especially at PPVs), I felt AE delivered a good product.

Quote:
The New Generation was bad about having stories for the undercard too. Raw would open with a non-title tag team match, then a decent midcard match, then the current champ wrestling a local jobber. That was how I remember most 1 hour Raw episodes.
Yeah, I would agree with this. Vince Russo became head writer in 1997 and I think one of his hallmarks was making the entire card important. One of the biggest things I think you can say about the AE is all the belts mattered a great deal. The European Championship, IC Title, World Title, etc were all very important. Currently I feel that no title is important in WWE, sadly including the WWE World Heavyweight Championship.
  #72  
Old 06-19-2014, 08:27 PM
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If you have the WWE Network, check out this week's NXT for the debut of "The Vaudvillains". Aiden English and Simon Gotsh (sp?).

Friggin' hilarious. Obviously no way the gimmick gets over on the big stage, but damn, NXT works great for that. William Regal selling it from the announcer table was great.

Last edited by Chimera; 06-19-2014 at 08:27 PM.
  #73  
Old 06-19-2014, 08:43 PM
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If you have the WWE Network, check out this week's NXT for the debut of "The Vaudvillains". Aiden English and Simon Gotsh (sp?).

Friggin' hilarious. Obviously no way the gimmick gets over on the big stage, but damn, NXT works great for that. William Regal selling it from the announcer table was great.
Simon Gotch (named after Frank Gotch, who was world champion as a legitimate wrestler back in the 1910s) has been around in the indies for awhile as "Ryan Drago", and he's pretty much kept the same old-timey grappler gimmick that he had then. I've been waiting for his NXT debut for awhile now.
  #74  
Old 06-20-2014, 09:07 AM
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So is NXT worth getting? I've been holding off on getting the WWE network, because I can usually page through YouTube for the matches of yesteryear, but not having to pay $50+ for PPVs is appealing.
  #75  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:12 AM
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So is NXT worth getting? I've been holding off on getting the WWE network, because I can usually page through YouTube for the matches of yesteryear, but not having to pay $50+ for PPVs is appealing.
I love it.

I have connections problems here and there, but NXT is great to watch, I LOVE "Countdown", and being able to call up old bouts is great.

Unlimited PPVs is spectacular as well since I would never buy one anyway
  #76  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:49 AM
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So is NXT worth getting? I've been holding off on getting the WWE network, because I can usually page through YouTube for the matches of yesteryear, but not having to pay $50+ for PPVs is appealing.
Honestly, if you watch only one wrestling show each week, that show should be NXT. The length keeps it tight and focused (few recaps; backstage stuff kept to a minimum). No sophomoric angles of the "vomit on Vicki" variety. Women are given full-length matches, and the ones who succeed are the ones who can wrestle--not just the ones who can look pretty while slapping and pulling hair. The crowd is *usually* great, though sometimes they get a bit too smarky for their own good (and they're often getting tired by the time they get to the last show of a taping). And the in-ring product is generally excellent. You know how good Payback was? Well, three days before, NXT had its own "special event", Takeover. It was so good that WWE brass put the pressure on the main roster guys to go all out, because they were afraid the developmental guys were going to outshine them. Also, you missed probably one of the funniest segments in all of wrestling history last week, when Bo Dallas tried to return as Mr. NXT.

Best of all, maybe: NXT is HHH's baby, so it's maybe giving us a little peek of what the main roster will be like once Vince & Dunn get out of the picture...
  #77  
Old 06-20-2014, 11:14 AM
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NXT is the developmental territory, not the name of the WWE Network, but..

YES, the Network is worth it. I never paid for a single PPV before this. I had only ever watched 3 of them at a former neighbor's house. Now I have access to all of them, and can watch every new one.

As above, NXT is tight. No stupid backstage bits, no crappy 'Vince' comedy shoved down your throats. The women actually get a chance to wrestle real matches. The Natalya - Charlotte match was really good, and you NEVER get to see that sort of thing on RAW. And as I said, the Vaudvillains was freaking hilarious. (ring entrance filmed in black and while with kind of slow strobe to make it like some old timey film effect.) Gotch reminds me a lot of Eddie Guererro.

And yeah, Bo Dallas is hilarious as well.
  #78  
Old 06-20-2014, 02:40 PM
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OK, sounds like a deal. The womens' rasslin' on TNA is a lot better than WWE because their matches actually last over one minute. I would love to see women like Sheri Martel in the ring. Paige comes close, but she needs to turn heel. :-) I thought AJ was excellent. I love the way she licked her teeth while doing promos.
  #79  
Old 06-20-2014, 03:09 PM
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I started watching wrestling in the early 60s. We got Capitol Wrestling shows in Washington DC. That was Vince McMahon Sr.'s original wrestling promotion that later morphed into the WWWF, then the WWF, and now WWE.

I don't remember the name of a single wrestler from those shows. I didn't see much for a while until we move to Philadelphia and WWWF showed up on UHF. The champion at that time was Pedro Morales, soon defeated by the old stalwart Stan Stasiak with the 'Heart Punch'. Stasiak was just an interim champ for Bruno Sammartino's return. Chief Jay Strongbow, Tony Guerria, were regular 'good guys', and one of my favorites was 'The Unpredictable' Johnny Rodz (he was totally predictable, he lost every match ever shown on TV). One of the 'bad guy' regulars was Baron Sicluna a totally uninteresting character. Occasionally appearing were classic stars like Haystacks Calhoun and Gorilla Monsoon, and Andre the Giant was just hitting the big time after signing up with WWWF. The greatest part of those days were the managers, Freddie Blassie, Lou Albano and the Grand Wizard of Wrestling. The wrestlers usually weren't great on the microphone in those days so the managers would do all the talking. This was the greatest era of wrestling for me.

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  #80  
Old 06-20-2014, 04:06 PM
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http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/video...illians-debut/
  #81  
Old 06-20-2014, 05:07 PM
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OK, sounds like a deal. The womens' rasslin' on TNA is a lot better than WWE because their matches actually last over one minute. I would love to see women like Sheri Martel in the ring. Paige comes close, but she needs to turn heel. :-) I thought AJ was excellent. I love the way she licked her teeth while doing promos.
Paige was apparently really good on NXT. At some point I need to go back and watch the first NXT "special event", Arrival--Paige and Emma put on a great match, I'm told. Since being moved up to the main roster, she's been booked weak--every match is basically her getting the shit kicked out of her, then she hits the modified scorpion crosslock (I am NOT calling it the PTO) and wins. Yawn.

Honestly, at this point, I'm beginning to think I'd rather see my NXT favorites stay there rather than move up to the main roster--it's a roll of the dice on whether they're going to be handled properly on the move.

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So pumped for this--I'm currently watching NXT a few days late, so that I can watch it with a friend. Been a huge mark for Gotch/Drago since I first heard of the gimmick, and I cannot wait to actually see him in action.
  #82  
Old 06-20-2014, 07:14 PM
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I started watching wrestling in the early 60s. We got Capitol Wrestling shows in Washington DC. That was Vince McMahon Sr.'s original wrestling promotion that later morphed into the WWWF, then the WWF, and now WWE.

I don't remember the name of a single wrestler from those shows. I didn't see much for a while until we move to Philadelphia and WWWF showed up on UHF. The champion at that time was Pedro Morales, soon defeated by the old stalwart Stan Stasiak with the 'Heart Punch'. Stasiak was just an interim champ for Bruno Sammartino's return. Chief Jay Strongbow, Tony Guerria, were regular 'good guys', and one of my favorites was 'The Unpredictable' Johnny Rodz (he was totally predictable, he lost every match ever shown on TV). One of the 'bad guy' regulars was Baron Sicluna a totally uninteresting character. Occasionally appearing were classic stars like Haystacks Calhoun and Gorilla Monsoon, and Andre the Giant was just hitting the big time after signing up with WWWF. The greatest part of those days were the managers, Freddie Blassie, Lou Albano and the Grand Wizard of Wrestling. The wrestlers usually weren't great on the microphone in those days so the managers would do all the talking. This was the greatest era of wrestling for me.
CWC actually got started (albeit briefly, he died a few years after its formation), by Jess McMahon--Vince Sr's father, along with Toots Mondt.
  #83  
Old 06-21-2014, 07:41 AM
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Honestly, at this point, I'm beginning to think I'd rather see my NXT favorites stay there rather than move up to the main roster--it's a roll of the dice on whether they're going to be handled properly on the move.
You can definitely tell there's a different booking mentality in NXT as opposed to in WWE proper, and so far it's been pretty hit-or-miss which NXT talents are going to be booked well when they get called up. The Shield and the Wyatt family have absolutely dominated since they came up, Big E Langston has done pretty well for himself, and I love what they've been doing with Bo Dallas and Adam Rose. On the other hand, Xavier Woods is a jobber who doesn't even have his own theme song, Alexander Rusev has gotten stuck with a generic evil Russian gimmick (which is pretty bizarre considering that in real life he's a Bulgarian who's lived in America since the '90s and practices Islam), and Emma has become a female version of Santino Marella.

I think we can all agree that the most anticipated NXT call-up will be that of the bookers and producers.
  #84  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:58 AM
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You can definitely tell there's a different booking mentality in NXT as opposed to in WWE proper, and so far it's been pretty hit-or-miss which NXT talents are going to be booked well when they get called up. The Shield and the Wyatt family have absolutely dominated since they came up, Big E Langston has done pretty well for himself, and I love what they've been doing with Bo Dallas and Adam Rose. On the other hand, Xavier Woods is a jobber who doesn't even have his own theme song, Alexander Rusev has gotten stuck with a generic evil Russian gimmick (which is pretty bizarre considering that in real life he's a Bulgarian who's lived in America since the '90s and practices Islam), and Emma has become a female version of Santino Marella.

I think we can all agree that the most anticipated NXT call-up will be that of the bookers and producers.
HA. Truer words were never spoken.

I think they've done fine with Paige thus far, and other than not letting her wrestle, Emma is pretty much her same character. They just need to let Emma and Paige have a feud so we can get good, technical women's wrestling.

Bo Dallas is my hero and is hilarious, Adam Rose is blah, and the rest of NXT seems pretty good. I think because NXT is more HHHs baby rather than Vince's we might need to wait until Vince retires, or dies, or whatever til we see some good healthy NXT-turned-superstars
  #85  
Old 06-21-2014, 04:05 PM
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I think Adam Rose could work better if they didn't have him win so quickly over the midcard. It's like they think they have to devote more time to his entrance and exit. Zeb Colter makes a perfect foil for him, and Rose and Jack Swagger could have had a great feud. Instead, they're making Rose look invincible, and that just does not suit him at all.
  #86  
Old 06-23-2014, 01:52 AM
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never mind.

Last edited by Superhal; 06-23-2014 at 01:54 AM.
  #87  
Old 06-23-2014, 07:34 AM
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I picked up WWE network, and have been binge watching NXT. You guys are right. It has an "indie" feel to it, and most of the roster are Daniel Bryan types. Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze was awesome, and Adrienne Neville vs Tyson Kidd was awesome. It's like a more polished version of RoH.

After some wiki browsing, I see that Sami Zayn used to be El Generico. That's pretty cute. It's like all the other gimmicks have been used, so just call him "The generic one." Why do fans sing the Olay song for him?
  #88  
Old 06-23-2014, 07:43 AM
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I picked up WWE network, and have been binge watching NXT. You guys are right. It has an "indie" feel to it, and most of the roster are Daniel Bryan types. Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze was awesome, and Adrienne Neville vs Tyson Kidd was awesome. It's like a more polished version of RoH.

After some wiki browsing, I see that Sami Zayn used to be El Generico. That's pretty cute. It's like all the other gimmicks have been used, so just call him "The generic one." Why do fans sing the Olay song for him?
As you noted, he was previously El Generico and he had a masked luchador gimmick at the time, so the song has kind of stuck with him even though he's no longer playing that character. (In real life, he's a Canadian of Syrian ancestry, which they've been playing up a little lately since it gets him over in the Arab world.)

NXT fans in general tend to come up with some interesting chants - there was a period a few months ago where, any time anyone delivered a powerbomb, they'd start chanting "BETTER THAN BATISTA!", and when CJ Parker (an evil tree-hugging hippie who likes to lecture the crowd about how they're polluting too much) wrestles, they've been known to chant "GLOBAL WARMING!" to get at him. I'm not even sure what it is they chant when the Ascension is wrestling, but I'm usually distracted by how awesome the Ascension is to pay attention. If these guys don't get a Demolition-esque year-and-a-half-long tag title reign when they get called up, I'll be very disappointed.
  #89  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:15 AM
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It's just easier TO come up with new chants because it's such an intimate environment.

You don't have the constant noise that is in your giant arenas, so chants can take hold a little easier.

Gives it that Independent feel
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:50 AM
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Yes, I think smaller arena audiences are brilliant, like the old ECW days. I laughed when the audience kept yelling "Bo-Leave!" at Bo Dallas's goodbye match.

Whenever there's an indie event near my area, I usually try to make it so I can be part of the whacko crowd.
  #91  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:34 PM
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I have a feeling that whoever wins the title is going to lose it before the PPV ends to the MITB winner. Here's a possibility; Orton wins, only to be beaten down by Ambrose and Reigns after the match...and then (assuming he's in it in the first place) MITB winner Seth Rollins shows up to cash in the briefcase; it turns out that his heel turn was a Shield trick the whole time.
  #92  
Old 06-24-2014, 08:42 AM
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I got to thinking, what if Adam Rose's Party Express was actually a cult, and terms like "Rosebud" and "Lemon" were actually equivalent terms for "Brother/Sister" and "Infidel"?

The cult would be like one of those post apocalyptic refugee camps where no adults were around to properly supervise the lives of child survivors of some major disaster. Adam Rose was the oldest child and became their leader, like that old Star Trek episode Miri. The kids had to learn to defend themselves from radioactive wolves and such, so Rose taught them "drunken master" style martial arts. They have to jump around and look like they're having fun and sing their Oh Oh-o-Oh Oh war chant, or Rose will take them to some dark place and they're never heard from again. The cult attracts freaks and midgets and girls who had plastic surgery to look like anime characters.

If you don't say you're a Rosebud, the cult surrounds you, chants LEMON! LEMON!, and drives you insane until your mind breaks and you finally swallow their rose-flavored koolaid. New converts still look like lemons who don't have fun, so they have to wear the bunny suit until they transform their faces to look permanently happy. JBL hates the bunny because he senses there's some sinister dark secret under the floppy ears, and he's right!
  #93  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:21 AM
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I got to thinking, what if Adam Rose's Party Express was actually a cult, and terms like "Rosebud" and "Lemon" were actually equivalent terms for "Brother/Sister" and "Infidel"?

The cult would be like one of those post apocalyptic refugee camps where no adults were around to properly supervise the lives of child survivors of some major disaster. Adam Rose was the oldest child and became their leader, like that old Star Trek episode Miri. The kids had to learn to defend themselves from radioactive wolves and such, so Rose taught them "drunken master" style martial arts. They have to jump around and look like they're having fun and sing their Oh Oh-o-Oh Oh war chant, or Rose will take them to some dark place and they're never heard from again. The cult attracts freaks and midgets and girls who had plastic surgery to look like anime characters.

If you don't say you're a Rosebud, the cult surrounds you, chants LEMON! LEMON!, and drives you insane until your mind breaks and you finally swallow their rose-flavored koolaid. New converts still look like lemons who don't have fun, so they have to wear the bunny suit until they transform their faces to look permanently happy. JBL hates the bunny because he senses there's some sinister dark secret under the floppy ears, and he's right!

So it'd be like Undertaker's monks? Or whomever tagged around with The Brood back in the day?

So what'd everyone think of last nights ep? I worked so I couldn't see it, but I did get to come in at the Steph/Vicki...uh...mud? match? Or something? The main event was pretty bad for it being a go-home show, but they probably also didn't want to ruin anyone.
  #94  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:33 AM
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I predict Reigns wins and then is taken out by Rollins, who had won the earlier match. New champ: Rollins.
  #95  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:51 AM
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I think the champion should be a transitional champ until they get things back on track. Maybe have Kane carry the strap until Bryan comes back to finish their feud and reclaim it. It would give Kane a final run with the belt.
  #96  
Old 06-24-2014, 01:46 PM
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I predict Reigns wins and then is taken out by Rollins, who had won the earlier match. New champ: Rollins.
A further twist: Rollins cashes in the suitcase, curb stomps Reigns, then Ambrose runs in and goes berzerk on Rollins, causing a DQ. This pisses off Reigns, who doesn't think he needs help, and he slaps Ambrose around. All three brawl. Next RAW, HHH announces they'll have a triple-threat match for the title next PPV. HHH accomplishes his dream of having all 3 members of the Shield at each others' throats, because it's "best for business."
  #97  
Old 06-25-2014, 07:18 AM
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I'm caught up on NXT. I think it's a better show than RAW and Smackdown. I don't think any of their people should go to the main roster. They'd be stepping down if they did. :-)

I've been really impressed with WWE's visual production and camera work lately. For instance, when Tyler Breeze makes his entrance, they do a close-up of his face in time with a hook in his theme music and he does that pouty look thing with his lips. It's hilarious.

They also do some cool horror movie-style shots with the Wyatt Family. The camera's frame of reference will have Wyatt or Rowan off-screen before they stampede an opponent, making it look like they popped out of the woodwork like boogiemen.
  #98  
Old 06-25-2014, 07:53 AM
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I predict Reigns wins and then is taken out by Rollins, who had won the earlier match. New champ: Rollins.
I'm not much of a WWE historian (much less recent history) but has a Money in the Bank winner ever cashed his briefcase in the SAME PPV?

I could see Rollins winning the MOB match, then later on have Reigns win the title, then Rollins cashes it in right then and there and wrestles Reigns for a RR double match.

Good in two fronts because you can either make Reigns look strong (winning the match, winning two in a row, winning against Rollins) and keep the belt for a bit, or have a "people's champ" heel kind of situation and have Rollins run around with it a while with a pissed off roster ready to chase him.
  #99  
Old 06-25-2014, 08:24 AM
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Sir T-Cups, I think it might have happened a couple years ago when Daniel Bryan lost the title to Randy Orton. That was the beginning of the "Best For Business" angle.

I read where Wade Barrett injured his shoulder and might be out of MITB this weekend. Will they get somebody from the lower card to take his place and give a rookie a shot at the title? It can happen... you just... you just gotta... BO-LIEVE!
  #100  
Old 06-25-2014, 09:14 AM
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I'm caught up on NXT. I think it's a better show than RAW and Smackdown. I don't think any of their people should go to the main roster. They'd be stepping down if they did. :-)

I've been really impressed with WWE's visual production and camera work lately. For instance, when Tyler Breeze makes his entrance, they do a close-up of his face in time with a hook in his theme music and he does that pouty look thing with his lips. It's hilarious.
NXT is done by Full Sail University. I think it's an awesome partnership, as the students get actual 'working on a professional product' experience and get to work with the most polished organization at doing that sort of thing. For WWE, it provides a pool of new graduates with experience working on their product whenever they have open positions.

Hell, was making me think that if WWE "Creative"* has nothing for Ziggler, send him down to NXT for a couple of months where he can be an absolute rock star and probably teach some of the new folks a thing or two.

* Quotes mandatory on that term.
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