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  #11801  
Old 06-21-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Is there anything of note? I made it through about 20 pages of text messages and the only surprise was that Sean Hannity apparently really does believe his own horseshit.
Well, or plays the character well.

Certainly Manafort ain't no choir boy, and one would doubt that Hannity would fail to be aware of that. If you're chatting with Hannibal Lecter, like the two of you are best buds who chat every day at church and only eat a vegetarian diet, and we know that you know who Hannibal Lecter is, then I have to feel a tinge of doubt about the sincerity of your words.

It's also a bit strange to be inserting quite so much Jesus and personal backstory, so frequently. If that's Hannity's every day communication pattern, he's basically turtled up in his cover story so far that it's safe to say that the man knows that he's supremely f'ed the day that the cover is blown.

One is reminded that we still don't know what Hannity's deal with Michael Cohen was. It will be interesting to see if the Feds raid his home at some point.

Maybe soon.
  #11802  
Old 06-21-2019, 04:53 PM
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Rather curious on page 9:

Hannity: Gorka is right. This is a banana republic
Hannity: Republicans suck


I presume he's talking about this. But, of course, Hannity blames the Republican party rather than Democrats.

As has been noted before, the Trump investigation was started by and lead by Republicans. Hannity seems to admit that the Deep State is not Democrats, it's "everyone in government except Trump". Which is, in essence, true. The only issue being that most of the people in government are largely non-partisan and just want to do their job professionally, and most of the Republicans are simply siding with the professionals over Trump. And up till such a point as Trump makes any sort of coherent argument for his side, supported by any form of logic and/or numbers, siding with the professionals is the correct choice.

The professionals can be wrong in some instances, but Trump is only against them to the extent that he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know anything and just said a bunch of stupid shit while trying to get elected. That's not how you outperform the professionals.

Page 17 -

Hannity: Disgusting. I'll be in the cell next to u.

As of yet, we have no reason to think that you will, Hannity. Curious that you do.

Reading through the whole conversation, I think it's fair to say that Weissman's book deal is about the stupidest thing a human has ever done, and is a strong punch to the testicles of our country. I really hope that he'll change his mind.
  #11803  
Old 06-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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Oh yeah and, for anyone curious, apparently it's "hannity@aol.com". Page 50.

Whoever redacted this document was mega crap.

Though, saying that, I don't know why I wrote "Reading through the whole conversation" in my previous post since I'm still reading it. >.>
  #11804  
Old 06-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinaptics View Post
They could threaten contempt and inherent contempt, which doesn't need Barr, unless they specifically invoke executive privilege. Right now, they're just planning on wasting time in courts over a privilege that doesn't even exist (absolute immunity). Then at least they could get on to the real fight instead of this gish gallop stuff that the administration is pulling.
Great idea. Who will enforce those contempt citations? What would be the practical effect of imposing them?

I disagree with you that they are wasting time in courts. If the courts are the only place you have left to enforce your authority, then that's where you go. Like I said in Post #11787. (Politico confirms. Hat tip to Walken After Midnight, who posted the link in the Pelosi Appreciation thread.)

By the way, what is the "real fight"?

Last edited by Aspenglow; 06-21-2019 at 05:52 PM.
  #11805  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Is there anything of note? I made it through about 20 pages of text messages and the only surprise was that Sean Hannity apparently really does believe his own horseshit.
This is what happens when crazy people can tell morons what to do.
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  #11806  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:43 PM
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Great idea. Who will enforce those contempt citations? What would be the practical effect of imposing them?
I don't see how the long game gets around that, either.

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I disagree with you that they are wasting time in courts. If the courts are the only place you have left to enforce your authority, then that's where you go.
There is no authority. The Trump Administration is just going to ignore the court rulings.

It's better to get to that point faster than slower. Gaslighting works, so you don't want to give it time to happen. It should be a surprise when Congress and the White House have law enforcement officers shooting at each other in the street, not just another day of Trump's craziness.
  #11807  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:46 PM
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I don't see how the long game gets around that, either.



There is no authority. The Trump Administration is just going to ignore the court rulings.

It's better to get to that point faster than slower. Gaslighting works, so you don't want to give it time to happen. It should be a surprise when Congress and the White House have law enforcement officers shooting at each other in the street, not just another day of Trump's craziness.
Disagree. I think at the point when Trump ignores the courts, Republicans will act. They do yank his leash when he goes too far and he gets in line. If they allow him to ignore the courts, then why go to all the trouble to stack them as McConnell has?

Last edited by Aspenglow; 06-21-2019 at 06:46 PM.
  #11808  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:05 PM
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Disagree. I think at the point when Trump ignores the courts, Republicans will act. They do yank his leash when he goes too far and he gets in line. If they allow him to ignore the courts, then why go to all the trouble to stack them as McConnell has?
That certainly would be a hope, but I mean that's the same sort of logic that presided in the Roman Senate after Caesar became Dictator, and among the Ally powers when Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland.

To be fair, Trump is an idiot who largely just doesn't want to look like a failure and McConnell probably has a whole bunch of stuff on him, so we're probably safe on that front. But, Trump has been figuring out this whole deal. He figured out how to create and use the Caravan/Terrorist conspiracy theory, and after being told off for being a Nationalist a few hundred times, he's probably looked at how previous Nationalists succeeded in the past and formed some ideas off of it.

I'd rather solve the issue rather than rely on Trump to prove a failure. The latter is probably a safe bet, but the risks aren't low enough to rely on that.
  #11809  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:17 PM
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You know what my next question is.

If applying to the courts isn't the answer, then how do we "solve the issue"?
  #11810  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:18 PM
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They do yank his leash when he goes too far and he gets in line.
This is one of those situations where “Cite?” is the best response, but there will be a couple of examples that can be semi-credibly cited, and then we can all spend the thread arguing about whether McConnell really pressured Trump into caving on the government shutdown or something.

But your reading is probably wrong, and in any case buying into it isn’t worth the catastrophic risk if it’s wrong.

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If they allow him to ignore the courts, then why go to all the trouble to stack them as McConnell has?
This probably makes less sense than you think it does.
“If the judge is corrupt, why would anyone bother to bribe the jury?”
  #11811  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:33 PM
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You know what my next question is.

If applying to the courts isn't the answer, then how do we "solve the issue"?
I said that the path is to get there faster. We're basically fucked. The solution is to get fucked faster.

Announce impeachment hearings. Throw in everything from Russia to Montenegro to the IRGC to making jokes about being President for life to making threatening calls to Joe Scarbarough to arresting asylum seekers illegally to whatever all else that Trump has done that is an impeachable offense.

Have the White House completely refuse to cooperate.

Take it to the Supreme Court, and have them decide that Congressional oversight - particularly for impeachment - allows no refusal.

And then we get to the scene where the Congressional are raiding the offices of the DOJ to arrest people for Contempt of Congress. That's where we're going. The fastest path there is the safest one.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-21-2019 at 07:34 PM.
  #11812  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:57 PM
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United States Capitol Police, I meant to say.
  #11813  
Old 06-22-2019, 01:30 PM
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I said that the path is to get there faster. We're basically fucked. The solution is to get fucked faster.

Announce impeachment hearings. Throw in everything from Russia to Montenegro to the IRGC to making jokes about being President for life to making threatening calls to Joe Scarbarough to arresting asylum seekers illegally to whatever all else that Trump has done that is an impeachable offense.

Have the White House completely refuse to cooperate.

Take it to the Supreme Court, and have them decide that Congressional oversight - particularly for impeachment - allows no refusal.

And then we get to the scene where the Congressional are raiding the offices of the DOJ to arrest people for Contempt of Congress. That's where we're going. The fastest path there is the safest one.
This is why I wanted Mueller to subpoena Trump. He probably would have refused, the SC would order him to comply, and the ultimate showdown would have happened by now.
  #11814  
Old 06-22-2019, 02:15 PM
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This is why I wanted Mueller to subpoena Trump. He probably would have refused, the SC would order him to comply, and the ultimate showdown would have happened by now.
Instead Mueller may go down in history as the pathetically weak Special Counsel who's sense of what is "fair" helped to doom the country.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-22-2019 at 02:15 PM. Reason: DYAC!
  #11815  
Old 06-22-2019, 04:45 PM
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Instead Mueller may go down in history as the pathetically weak Special Counsel who's sense of what is "fair" helped to doom the country.
It wasn't Mueller's job to provoke a constitutional crisis, and Rosenstein probably wouldn't have allowed him to anyway. And if he had wanted to subpoena Trump and Rosenstein nixed it and Mueller quit as a result (which he wouldn't have), that wouldn't have gained anything either.

I was just being selfish.
  #11816  
Old 06-22-2019, 05:15 PM
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I suspect that Mueller had a fairly clear set of rules outlined for himself before he began. If Trump formed a genuine deal with Russia, then he would go as far as need-be. But if it was just something funny like Obstruction of Justice or paying off women that he'd slept with, then he'd leave it to Congress.

Most likely, Trump's genuine deal is with Saudi Arabia - though, likely, the Russians have something compromising on him. Ideally, the FBI and CIA are still tracking forwards on both of those.

Fortunately, I think that the Senate Republicans are largely aware that Trump is probably compromised, and they're voting to block him from doing stuff that they doubt the intentions of and putting sanctions on people that they think have materials on Trump. Unfortunately, they're not impeaching him. Presumably, because they're protecting their own asses and don't want Trump sinking the party.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-22-2019 at 05:16 PM.
  #11817  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:15 PM
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Mueller agrees to testify before Congress...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/25/polit...ify/index.html

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  #11818  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:17 PM
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BREAKINGFFFfsfwsf
...
Quote:
Breaking: Inbox: Today, House Judiciary Chair Nadler and House Intelligence Chair Schiff announced that Special Counsel Robert Mueller has agreed to testify pursuant to a subpoena before both the Judiciary and Intelligence Committees in open session on Wednesday, July 17, 2019.
ETA: Ninja'd again! It took me a few minutes to get it to stop auto-decapitalizing all my letters...

Last edited by Walken After Midnight; 06-25-2019 at 08:18 PM.
  #11819  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:22 PM
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He can talk...
  #11820  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:37 PM
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Brace for hurricane-force blasts of explosive Twitterrhea....
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  #11821  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:44 PM
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I’m not sure what people expect. He already said everything he has to say is in the report. I don’t expect much. I hope I’m wrong
  #11822  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:48 PM
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I’m not sure what people expect. He already said everything he has to say is in the report. I don’t expect much. I hope I’m wrong
Yeah, kind of like there not being much difference between A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones... except the trivial matter of audience size....
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  #11823  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:10 PM
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Mueller will testify to the House in July


The AP says it's happening.

https://apnews.com/5d90622646ae4aa3b3038859ce15a46e
Quote:
Democrats said Tuesday evening that Robert Mueller has agreed to testify publicly July 17 before the House Judiciary and intelligence committees after both panels issued subpoenas to him.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff said in a joint statement that the special counsel has agreed to testify about the report he issued in April about possible Russian connections to Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. The Justice Department declined to comment.

Schiff told reporters shortly after the announcement that Mueller was reluctant to testify but agreed to honor the subpoenas. He said there will be two hearings “back to back,” one for each committee, and they will also meet with him in closed session afterward.
  #11824  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:17 PM
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"Robert Mueller to Testify Before House Committees"
https://nyti.ms/2ZLk5xk
Quote:
...
Coming nearly three months after therelease of Mr. Mueller’s report, the back-to-back hearings before the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees promise to be must-see television and hold the potential to reshape the political landscape around Mr. Trump’s presidency and a possible impeachment by the House.

Mr. Mueller, who hasspoken publicly only once about his work, resisted taking the witness stand, where he will face questions both from Democrats eager to employ him to build a case against Mr. Trump and Republicans eager to vindicate the president’s innocence.

In the end, the two committees were forced to issue subpoenas compelling Mr. Mueller to appear.
....
I just wanted to get on the bandwagon. Late.
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  #11825  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:39 PM
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What bombshells should be expect from Mueller's testimony?

He's proven that, in this case at least, he's a balls-and-strikes bureaucrat who is apparently content to review evidence of massive criminality and say "Welp, technically I did all I can do. You guys read between the lines and figure out the rest." Don't forget this part: "In the end, the two committees were forced to issue subpoenas compelling Mr. Mueller to appear."

I can see Democrats dancing around trying to get him to answer hypotheticals and he'll be like "I can't answer a hypothetical".

Bookmark this thread; I'll joyfully accept correction next month if I'm wrong. But I don't think I am.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 06-25-2019 at 09:40 PM.
  #11826  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:52 PM
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If it ain't public and on tee-vee, it don't mean shit.
  #11827  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:02 PM
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If it ain't public and on tee-vee, it don't mean shit.


It’s public and on tv.
  #11828  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:05 PM
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It’s public and on tv.

But is it on Fox & Friends?

Last edited by Monty; 06-25-2019 at 10:06 PM.
  #11829  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:16 PM
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I can see Democrats dancing around trying to get him to answer hypotheticals and he'll be like "I can't answer a hypothetical".

Bookmark this thread; I'll joyfully accept correction next month if I'm wrong. But I don't think I am.
Agreed.

If the Dems look like shitbags asking if he thinks Trump obstructed justice. And we’ll hear, read the report again.
  #11830  
Old 06-26-2019, 04:16 AM
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Even if all they get Mueller to do is read publicly the most damming parts of his report live on TV, that would have incredible value. Things are just different when they're on TV from the horse's mouth.
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  #11831  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:16 AM
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Even if all they get Mueller to do is read publicly the most damming parts of his report live on TV, that would have incredible value. Things are just different when they're on TV from the horse's mouth.
I don't think he's gonna un-redact anything spicy on live TV. The man doesn't seem to possess that kind of spontaneity.
  #11832  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:18 AM
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I don't think he's gonna un-redact anything spicy on live TV. The man doesn't seem to possess that kind of spontaneity.
He wouldn't have to. There is plenty of stuff in the unredacted report that shows the Trump narrative is a lie, but lots of folks are unaware of. To see Mueller saying that stuff on live TV would be much, much more valuable than just having it out there in newspapers and on the internet. It really is different when it's on TV, and can be replayed over and over again.
  #11833  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:53 AM
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I’m not sure what people expect. He already said everything he has to say is in the report. I don’t expect much. I hope I’m wrong
The point is to get him to repeat the findings out loud. Most people haven't read the report, but will see soundbites on TV and social media. There doesn't have to be anything new.
  #11834  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:10 AM
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He'll claim Absolute Immunity (or whatever they claimed for Hope Hicks). Just y'all watch.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2019 at 06:14 AM.
  #11835  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:35 AM
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The point is to get him to repeat the findings out loud. Most people haven't read the report, but will see soundbites on TV and social media. There doesn't have to be anything new.
And then the Republicans will spin it as "This is nothing new, it's been out in the report for months now. How sad that the Democrats are reduced to having Mueller narrate a report that's already old news."

I'm not happy about it, just not clear why the same old pattern wouldn't successfully play out again.
  #11836  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:42 AM
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And then the Republicans will spin it as "This is nothing new, it's been out in the report for months now. How sad that the Democrats are reduced to having Mueller narrate a report that's already old news."

I'm not happy about it, just not clear why the same old pattern wouldn't successfully play out again.
It's about baby steps and picking at the margins. Trump's base is immovable, but there are others out there who just haven't heard. And it's already been working -- opnions have, slowly but steadily, shifted on the findings of the Mueller report. This will help continue that.
  #11837  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:58 AM
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And then the Republicans will spin it as "This is nothing new, it's been out in the report for months now. How sad that the Democrats are reduced to having Mueller narrate a report that's already old news."

I'm not happy about it, just not clear why the same old pattern wouldn't successfully play out again.
We need to get over censoring ourselves over the fear of what Republicans might say. This kind of second guessing is self destructive. Democrats need to stand up for their principles without cowering from imagined spin from Republicans.
  #11838  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:13 AM
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He'll claim Absolute Immunity (or whatever they claimed for Hope Hicks). Just y'all watch.
It's not impossible.
  #11839  
Old 06-26-2019, 08:24 AM
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Think of that woman who was interviewed recently, who said without rancor or guile that she got all her news from right-leaning sources, and she honestly had no idea that the Mueller report didn't completely exonerate Trump.

So this hearing is for her.
  #11840  
Old 06-26-2019, 08:41 AM
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Think of that woman who was interviewed recently, who said without rancor or guile that she got all her news from right-leaning sources, and she honestly had no idea that the Mueller report didn't completely exonerate Trump.

So this hearing is for her.
Except there's no guarantee she'll watch the hearings. Most likely she'll just watch whatever FOX has to say about them.

I fervently hope it works out otherwise, but I am not...optimistic.
  #11841  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:00 AM
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Even if all they get Mueller to do is read publicly the most damming parts of his report live on TV, that would have incredible value.
Let's hope Mueller's testimony opens the floodgates.
  #11842  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:10 AM
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Even if all they get Mueller to do is read publicly the most damming parts of his report live on TV, that would have incredible value. Things are just different when they're on TV from the horse's mouth.
This ^^^

Just read excerpts of the report out loud and get him to answer questions related to it.
  #11843  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:10 AM
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Except there's no guarantee she'll watch the hearings. Most likely she'll just watch whatever FOX has to say about them.
Still, the seed has been planted. She's already expressed awareness that she's been using only "right wing sources" of news, and further that other sources have reported things they don't. The seed may yet sprout.
  #11844  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:12 AM
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Let's hope Mueller's testimony opens the floodgates.
I think that if the Dems play their cards right, this could be essentially the next best thing to an impeachment hearing. It may or may not lead to impeachment proceedings, but if nothing else it plants a seed in the minds of more impressionable voters. It could be devastating to his support among independents, which is already underwater.
  #11845  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:15 AM
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I have no confidence that the Democrats will "play this right" nor that Mueller will reveal anything particularly groundbreaking, nor that the people who currently believe that the Mueller report exonerates Trump will be swayed in any way by this.

But one can hope.
  #11846  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:59 AM
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I have no confidence that the Democrats will "play this right" nor that Mueller will reveal anything particularly groundbreaking, nor that the people who currently believe that the Mueller report exonerates Trump will be swayed in any way by this.

But one can hope.
I'd rather have the Mueller Report reading round table telethon than nothing at all.

Unlike others, I don't hold out hope that any of Trump's legal and ethical transgressions are going to move the needle in terms of his public support. People didn't vote for Trump because he's a good guy; they voted for him because they thought he'd be somewhat effective at jamming through right wing legislation. Considering he had two years of total control of the government and couldn't really do that, I think what will eventually do him in is his inability to run the government and the cowardice (not to mention depravity and greed) of his fellow Republicans.

Last edited by asahi; 06-26-2019 at 11:01 AM.
  #11847  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:01 AM
Walken After Midnight is online now
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
It could be devastating to his support among independents, which is already underwater.
I agree. Democrats and Justin Amash have been floating the idea of impeachment for a while now, and Mueller's testimony could be just what is needed to get independent voters all aboard with the idea.
  #11848  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:27 AM
Walken After Midnight is online now
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Trump, in Fox Business interview, accuses Robert Mueller of committing a crime:
Quote:
“Here’s the problem, Robert Mueller, they worked for him, and the two lovers were together, and they had texts back and forth, emails back and forth,” Trump told Bartiromo. “Mueller terminated them illegally. He terminated the emails. He terminated all of the stuff between Strzok and Page. You know, they sung like you’ve never seen. Robert Mueller terminated their text messages together. He terminated them. They’re gone. And that’s illegal. That’s a crime.”
  #11849  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:50 AM
ElvisL1ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'd rather have the Mueller Report reading round table telethon than nothing at all.
I'm sorry I missed the theatrical production at Riverside Church in New York. Kevin Kline performed Mueller's lines. Jason Alexander as Chris Christie. Trump himself? John Lithgow.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 06-26-2019 at 11:51 AM.
  #11850  
Old 06-26-2019, 12:15 PM
dasmoocher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
Trump, in Fox Business interview, accuses Robert Mueller of committing a crime:
Too bad I can't watch this until I get home later today--"especially unhinged, even by his standards." Sounds like an Instant Trump Classic.

Trump’s unhinged Fox Business interview illustrates how Fox News normalizes Trump

Hours after news of Mueller’s testimony broke, Trump called Maria Bartiromo and melted down on live TV.

Quote:
On Wednesday morning, hours after news broke that special counsel Robert Mueller will testify before Congress in a public setting on July 17, President Donald Trump called in to Maria Bartiromo’s Fox Business show for a lengthy phone interview that was especially unhinged, even by his standards.

It was a surreal affair from start to finish. But even during its wildest moments, Bartiromo pretended to understand what Trump was talking about and acted as though he was making profound points. In that respect, it illustrated how Trump-friendly media — Fox News and Fox Business in particular — normalize an obviously abnormal president.

The tone was set immediately, as Trump conspiratorially ranted about “people [from the FBI] spying on my campaign” over Bartiromo’s attempts to get a question in.

Last edited by dasmoocher; 06-26-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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