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  #2401  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
What you're saying might make a bit of sense as regards to stirring up nationalism, but certainly not with election-interfering. That type of thing makes it far likelier that the US would try to use "economic and political power to choke Russia financially and to isolate them politically".
It does if there's a consensus that it's in the best interests of the country to retaliate - at present, such a consensus does not exist. In fact, if one political party believes that it benefits from election meddling, then there may never be an incentive to retaliate, or even to acknowledge said meddling.
  #2402  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:54 AM
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It's not about direct retaliation. It's about the extent to which Russia is perceived as a semi-friendly rival versus a hostile power. To the extent that public sentiment moves from the former to the latter, it becomes more likely that the US will use it's global military and economic power to counter Russian interests.
  #2403  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:02 AM
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...large portions of the US public is much more hostile to Russia than they were or would otherwise have been...
I'd love to see the polling numbers supporting this assertion.
.
  #2404  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:09 AM
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I'd love to see the polling numbers supporting this assertion.
.
Gallup's got everydamnthing. Make of this what you will.

ETA: Nevermind. It's 2018 now, isn't it.

Last edited by GreysonCarlisle; 02-09-2018 at 11:10 AM.
  #2405  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:15 AM
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Maybe this, instead. It's from August.

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The poll found that the share of Republicans expressing confidence in Putin doubled to 34 percent from 17 percent in 2015, when Donald Trump launched a campaign for the White House that was seen as friendly toward Moscow.

Though most Americans view Russia negatively, Moscow's overall popularity in the United States has risen since 2014, when it plummeted after the country annexed Crimea. Twenty-nine percent of Americans now have a favorable view, compared with 19 percent in 2014, the poll found.
-Politico (Poll: Republicans' confidence in Russia's Putin on the rise)
  #2406  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:22 AM
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So it looks like after recovering from an invasion-related dip, Russian popularity dipped slightly of late. Though not as much as I thought, I'll admit. I guess Gallup will come out with another poll this month (they all seem to be in February).
  #2407  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:22 PM
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It's not about direct retaliation. It's about the extent to which Russia is perceived as a semi-friendly rival versus a hostile power. To the extent that public sentiment moves from the former to the latter, it becomes more likely that the US will use it's global military and economic power to counter Russian interests.
So your supposition is that if Russia meddled in an American election, there would be widespread agreement on and acknowledgement of this fact, and that a strong majority of the American population would demand a response. I'll just say that this is a naive and ill-informed supposition on your part, and nothing more really needs to be added.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:31 PM
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What I find strange is if a guy says "it's not about direct retaliation ..." and the other says "So your supposition is ... that a strong majority of the American population would demand a response".
  #2409  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:57 PM
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So it looks like after recovering from an invasion-related dip, Russian popularity dipped slightly of late. Though not as much as I thought, I'll admit. I guess Gallup will come out with another poll this month (they all seem to be in February).
Is that Barmy for "I was pulling an assumption out of my ass?"
.
  #2410  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:33 PM
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I prefer Phlipp-phlopp myself.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:23 PM
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The number three person, Rachel Brand, (number two behind Rosenstein, ie the person that would replace him if he is fired) is stepping down.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 02-09-2018 at 04:25 PM.
  #2412  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:36 PM
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The number three person, Rachel Brand, (number two behind Rosenstein, ie the person that would replace him if he is fired) is stepping down.
I just heard about this, too. I am troubled by it, but can only trust that Mueller is very well aware that Trump is angling to have him fired and has taken steps to ensure the investigation will continue with or without him.

Poor Rosenstein. I guess we're really going to get to see what he is made of. If Trump fires him, it will just be another obstruction charge, eventually.
  #2413  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:30 PM
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I just saw this. Does anyone have any idea why this would happen?

Are we going to see KellyAnne Conway appointed to yet another position. Maybe Baron?
Though I'm not sure Baron has demonstrated enough loyalty yet.
  #2414  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:36 PM
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I just saw this. Does anyone have any idea why this would happen?

Are we going to see KellyAnne Conway appointed to yet another position. Maybe Baron?
Though I'm not sure Baron has demonstrated enough loyalty yet.
It's Barron.
And lay off the kid. Minor children are off limits.
  #2415  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:43 PM
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It's Barron.
And lay off the kid. Minor children are off limits.
Seconded. Not cricket.
  #2416  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:02 PM
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Re Rachel Brand...

Sooner or later, Rosenstein is going to have to step aside when he becomes a witness in the primary obstruction charge that is surely heading toward Trump for firing Comey. So there is no question that Brand would have had to assume the position (however one wishes to take that) at some point. You can't really blame her for not wanting to be in the middle of the ensuing nightmare, being savaged by Trump and his supporters.

My understanding:

Trump can appoint someone to the position, but that person must be confirmed by the Senate. With such a narrow margin now, Trump would need to tread carefully. I don't think he'd be able to appoint a crony. Flake, McCain, Corker, Collins and maybe even a few others won't toe the Trump line if he tries.

Alternatively, he can choose someone already confirmed as a U.S. Attorney -- not someone who is merely acting. Remember, he's been pretty involved in picking those people. If he goes this route, he might be able to slither someone handpicked into the position.

All this would change if Dems prevail at the mid-terms.

It's going to be so ugly between now and then.
  #2417  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:28 PM
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Yeah. Leave Barron alone. Lord knows his father does.
  #2418  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:35 PM
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I don't think saying that Trump will appoint his youngest child to the justice department is in any way an attack on Barron. He's appointed the rest of his family to positions that they are unqualified for.

But whatever.
  #2419  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:36 PM
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Yeah. Leave Barron alone. Lord knows his father does.
Making fun of a child absolutely should be off limits.

That said, the actual joke made here (Barron hasn't demonstrated sufficient loyalty) is really at Trump's expense (his standards of loyalty are insane), not at Barron's. This was not making fun of Chelsea Clinton's appearance, or joking about deflowering the Bush daughters. Let's keep some perspective here.
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  #2420  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:47 PM
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[FWIW, Putin is by all accounts a genuinely popular guy in Russia. But it's more about his image as a strong leader in defending Russian interests, as opposed to stirring up trouble in other countries.]
REALLY ?? By all accounts? Where do you come up with this stuff? .......checks to make sure this is the pit thread.....this is BY ALL ACCOUNTS the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this board, surpassing another one of your classics. Do you even think before you write crap like this?

By the accounts I’ve read, Vladimir Putin is a murderous and corrupt gangster running a criminal enterprise that has nuclear weapons. He has business owners tortured and killed in order to steal their assets, and is backed up with paperwork issued by a totally corrupt legal system that answers to him. This is the crux of the Magnitsky Act. He’s been known to poison foreign business executives. He imprisons, tortures and kills his political opponents and journalists that speak out against him.

Now, I know that you and your ilk have a hard-on for him because he foments hate for minorities and persecutes gay people. Plus he had Pussy Riot attacked by bull-whipped wielding Cossacks. So conservatives are all in love with this democracy hating asshole.

And because he’s such s major league bully that actually completely destroys then kills everyone that opposes him, Trump has a schoolgirl crush on him. ( “Maybe he’ll give me a present” ). And Putin knows this and spent a long time playing hard to get.

And Putin’s just playing with him ( and the rest of the world). And Trump is still desperate for his attention. It’s so ridiculous, they’re both like comic book villains.

And for those that still doubt that Putin, at heart, is a common criminal— remember that he literally stole a Super Bowl ring from NE Pats owner Robert Kraft.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...-robert-kraft/

Or are you going to defend Putin?

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 02-09-2018 at 06:48 PM.
  #2421  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:04 PM
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REALLY ?? By all accounts? Where do you come up with this stuff? .......checks to make sure this is the pit thread.....this is BY ALL ACCOUNTS the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this board, surpassing another one of your classics. Do you even think before you write crap like this?

By the accounts I’ve read, Vladimir Putin is a murderous and corrupt gangster running a criminal enterprise that has nuclear weapons. He has business owners tortured and killed in order to steal their assets, and is backed up with paperwork issued by a totally corrupt legal system that answers to him. This is the crux of the Magnitsky Act. He’s been known to poison foreign business executives. He imprisons, tortures and kills his political opponents and journalists that speak out against him.

Now, I know that you and your ilk have a hard-on for him because he foments hate for minorities and persecutes gay people. Plus he had Pussy Riot attacked by bull-whipped wielding Cossacks. So conservatives are all in love with this democracy hating asshole.

And because he’s such s major league bully that actually completely destroys then kills everyone that opposes him, Trump has a schoolgirl crush on him. ( “Maybe he’ll give me a present” ). And Putin knows this and spent a long time playing hard to get.

And Putin’s just playing with him ( and the rest of the world). And Trump is still desperate for his attention. It’s so ridiculous, they’re both like comic book villains.

And for those that still doubt that Putin, at heart, is a common criminal— remember that he literally stole a Super Bowl ring from NE Pats owner Robert Kraft.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...-robert-kraft/

Or are you going to defend Putin?
Are you stupid? He’s got approval ratings of 80% plus. IMHO, because he’s a murdering thug.
  #2422  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:37 PM
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REALLY ?? By all accounts? Where do you come up with this stuff? .......checks to make sure this is the pit thread.....this is BY ALL ACCOUNTS the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this board, surpassing another one of your classics. Do you even think before you write crap like this?

By the accounts I’ve read, Vladimir Putin is a murderous and corrupt gangster running a criminal enterprise that has nuclear weapons. He has business owners tortured and killed in order to steal their assets, and is backed up with paperwork issued by a totally corrupt legal system that answers to him. This is the crux of the Magnitsky Act. He’s been known to poison foreign business executives. He imprisons, tortures and kills his political opponents and journalists that speak out against him.

Now, I know that you and your ilk have a hard-on for him because he foments hate for minorities and persecutes gay people. Plus he had Pussy Riot attacked by bull-whipped wielding Cossacks. So conservatives are all in love with this democracy hating asshole.

And because he’s such s major league bully that actually completely destroys then kills everyone that opposes him, Trump has a schoolgirl crush on him. ( “Maybe he’ll give me a present” ). And Putin knows this and spent a long time playing hard to get.

And Putin’s just playing with him ( and the rest of the world). And Trump is still desperate for his attention. It’s so ridiculous, they’re both like comic book villains.

And for those that still doubt that Putin, at heart, is a common criminal— remember that he literally stole a Super Bowl ring from NE Pats owner Robert Kraft.
Errrr....yeah. And he's a pretty popular guy in Russia. If you're going to be a shitlord dictator you need to make sure people like you. Or at least don't have enough contempt for you that they think stabbing you is a good idea.
  #2423  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:39 PM
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Trump is blocking the release of the Democratic response to the bullshit Nunes memo.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/polit...ify/index.html
  #2424  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:44 PM
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Trump is blocking the release of the Democratic response to the bullshit Nunes memo.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/polit...ify/index.html
And the overwhelming majority of Americans don't understand and don't care. Jesus wept.
  #2425  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:17 PM
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The number three person, Rachel Brand, (number two behind Rosenstein, ie the person that would replace him if he is fired) is stepping down.
Whispered at Davos - “That’s a nice associate attorney general you have there. Sure would be a shame if someone offers her a private sector job she can’t refuse.”
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  #2426  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:32 PM
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Who wouldn't want to work for Walmart?
  #2427  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:47 PM
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Who wouldn't want to work for Walmart?
Those blue vests are so cute.
  #2428  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:52 PM
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A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes


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Who wouldn't want to work for Walmart?


I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that she’s not gonna be a greeter.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 02-09-2018 at 08:53 PM.
  #2429  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:54 PM
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Re Rachel Brand...

Sooner or later, Rosenstein is going to have to step aside when he becomes a witness in the primary obstruction charge that is surely heading toward Trump for firing Comey. So there is no question that Brand would have had to assume the position (however one wishes to take that) at some point. You can't really blame her for not wanting to be in the middle of the ensuing nightmare, being savaged by Trump and his supporters.

My understanding:

Trump can appoint someone to the position, but that person must be confirmed by the Senate. With such a narrow margin now, Trump would need to tread carefully. I don't think he'd be able to appoint a crony. Flake, McCain, Corker, Collins and maybe even a few others won't toe the Trump line if he tries.

Alternatively, he can choose someone already confirmed as a U.S. Attorney -- not someone who is merely acting. Remember, he's been pretty involved in picking those people. If he goes this route, he might be able to slither someone handpicked into the position.

All this would change if Dems prevail at the mid-terms.

It's going to be so ugly between now and then.
Pfff...what you and others don't want to bring yourselves to admit, don't want to understand, is that every single day that Trump is in office, every day that he and his allies remain in power, is a day that they are wearing down the good, civic-minded bureaucrats. This is not what Rachel Brand signed up for. I'm guessing that this government is not what many of the career bureaucrats signed up for -- but this is what they've got at least until January of 2021. A change of Congress - if it even happens and that's an entirely different thread of discussion -- won't change that. Trump and his billionaire plutocratic alliance is making the bureaucracy an uncomfortable place for people who actually care about preserving institutions for the public. This is an irreversible trend.
  #2430  
Old 02-09-2018, 08:56 PM
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I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that she’s not gonna be a greeter.
What? No blue vest? I wouldn't take that stupid job then.
  #2431  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:14 PM
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Pfff...what you and others don't want to bring yourselves to admit, don't want to understand, is that every single day that Trump is in office, every day that he and his allies remain in power, is a day that they are wearing down the good, civic-minded bureaucrats. This is not what Rachel Brand signed up for. I'm guessing that this government is not what many of the career bureaucrats signed up for -- but this is what they've got at least until January of 2021. A change of Congress - if it even happens and that's an entirely different thread of discussion -- won't change that. Trump and his billionaire plutocratic alliance is making the bureaucracy an uncomfortable place for people who actually care about preserving institutions for the public. This is an irreversible trend.
Please don't tell me what I don't want to admit, don't want to understand. You have a perspective, just as I do -- nothing more. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attack me as being wrong, either. We neither of us know the end of this story.

I appreciate how grim things look just now. I'm well aware of how many forces are arrayed against our institutional norms of government. But I'm not willing to just give up and cave to some nihilistic vision of our future, and I don't think that means I "don't want to admit, don't want to understand."

Your perspective reminds me of people who go from climate change denial to, "We're all gonna die and there's nothing we can do!" There's a lot in between, and if you're right, we'll all know soon enough. Meantime, I intend to fight and see what can be done. Your Cassandra routine is getting rather tiresome.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 02-09-2018 at 09:15 PM.
  #2432  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:40 PM
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Please don't tell me what I don't want to admit, don't want to understand. You have a perspective, just as I do -- nothing more. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attack me as being wrong, either. We neither of us know the end of this story.

I appreciate how grim things look just now. I'm well aware of how many forces are arrayed against our institutional norms of government. But I'm not willing to just give up and cave to some nihilistic vision of our future, and I don't think that means I "don't want to admit, don't want to understand."

Your perspective reminds me of people who go from climate change denial to, "We're all gonna die and there's nothing we can do!" There's a lot in between, and if you're right, we'll all know soon enough. Meantime, I intend to fight and see what can be done. Your Cassandra routine is getting rather tiresome.
It's not my Cassandra routine that's tiresome; it's reality that's tiresome.
  #2433  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:51 PM
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Whatev's, bro. I guess you have your hands full being the self-appointed Oracle of The Straight Dope. All the best.
  #2434  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:57 PM
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Whatev's, bro. I guess you have your hands full being the self-appointed Oracle of The Straight Dope. All the best.
:shrug: I get it. The reality is tiresome. It's real easy to be pessimistic. I am.
  #2435  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:06 PM
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If you decide you're already beaten... you are.
  #2436  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:10 PM
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Whatev's, bro. I guess you have your hands full being the self-appointed Oracle of The Straight Dope. All the best.
I have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda: I'm trying to strip the bark off of our cultural propensity for confidence. I fully confess: I want you to be scared. The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging that we, in fact, have a very serious problem and acknowledge the complete scope of it. Even among progressives, I get the sense that the feeling is that this can, and will, be corrected in the next election. However...I'm not so confident. Our confidence, our arrogance, our complacency is killing us.
  #2437  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:11 PM
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If you decide you're already beaten... you are.
How far are you willing to go?

What are you willing to sacrifice?
  #2438  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:16 PM
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How far are you willing to go?

What are you willing to sacrifice?
According to you, it doesn't matter. It won't be enough.
  #2439  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:57 PM
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If you decide you're already beaten... you are.
Oh, I'm not beaten. Our particular political experiment has run its course, that's all. It happens.
  #2440  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:57 PM
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Of course, one should never forget that Everest is strewn with the corpsicles of motivated, determined people who wouldn't let anything stop them.

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  #2441  
Old 02-10-2018, 07:44 AM
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I have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda: I'm trying to strip the bark off of our cultural propensity for confidence. I fully confess: I want you to be scared. The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging that we, in fact, have a very serious problem and acknowledge the complete scope of it.
Every time Dr. Smith wailed "we're doomed... DOOMED!" he was just laying some reverse psychology on Will and the Robot.
  #2442  
Old 02-10-2018, 07:53 AM
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At the very least, people, especially those on the left, but also everyone else, got way too complacent about who they put in office. Complacency is what brought us Trump, but it also brought a pretty right wing Republican party and their obstructionist tactics. The 2016 election showed how complacent we ended up getting. Progressives and moderates assumed the nation would continue going leftward on social issues especially, but failed to see the growing backlash from the far right. The subsequent local special elections and the upcoming 2018 elections show people beginning to wake up from their complacency and taking action or vowing to. As much as people loved Obama for his strength and humanity, he was terrible at politicking. He didn't seem to know how to handle GOP obstructionism and he and the DNC and pretty much the whole party didn't seem to pay attention to the mounting Democratic losses in state elections until they realized the GOP had control of nearly every state office; they had focused too much on winning the presidency and not enough on winning Governor, Congressional and local legislature races. Now everyone who's not on the right is trying to claw back their losses. We'll see if there's a beginning of success in Nov.

As for Trump, he is destroying a lot of norms with his antics and the GOP is allowing him to. It's going to take a lot of time and effort to fix what he and the right wingers have broken and it's uncertain when that can start. I think we can recover from this, but it's going to take a lot of sustained effort. If it were just Trump, he hasn't been here long enough to completely break the system, but the GOP has been destroying norms since at least the Tea Party, so it's going to be a harder effort, assuming the country can ever wake up enough to make a strong effort
  #2443  
Old 02-10-2018, 08:33 AM
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Trump just responded to Michael Smerconish on CNN.
Quote:
The Democrats sent a very political and long response memo which they knew, because of sources and methods (and more), would have to be heavily redacted, whereupon they would blame the White House for lack of transparency. Told them to re-do and send back in proper form!
So he just admitted it was political, not anything classified, that caused the holding back of the Democrats' memo.
  #2444  
Old 02-10-2018, 08:34 AM
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Gallup's got everydamnthing.
Speaking of Gallup, I just found this map of Trump's approval rating. Texas and Colorado are that low?
  #2445  
Old 02-10-2018, 08:58 AM
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Making fun of a child absolutely should be off limits.

That said, the actual joke made here (Barron hasn't demonstrated sufficient loyalty) is really at Trump's expense (his standards of loyalty are insane), not at Barron's. This was not making fun of Chelsea Clinton's appearance, or joking about deflowering the Bush daughters. Let's keep some perspective here.
Agree, also Barron might be the only honest one in the entire bunch.
  #2446  
Old 02-10-2018, 08:59 AM
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Trump is blocking the release of the Democratic response to the bullshit Nunes memo.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/polit...ify/index.html
They should just hand it to ALL the news outlets anyway... anonymously or something. Fuck this noise.
  #2447  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:08 AM
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Speaking of Gallup, I just found this map of Trump's approval rating. Texas and Colorado are that low?
Texas isn't the monolithic red state that some coastal inhabitants think it is. (In spite of our red legislature. ) It's big place with 254 counties and a spread-out population that's concentrated in a few areas. The lower pointy part of Texas from San Antonio-Austin southward went solidly for Hillary.

Interestingly (at least to me), the 50 counties with the lowest population have 5,000 or fewer inhabitants in each, the lowest 20 with 2,000 or fewer.
  #2448  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:55 AM
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Texas isn't the monolithic red state that some coastal inhabitants think it is. (In spite of our red legislature. ) It's big place with 254 counties and a spread-out population that's concentrated in a few areas. The lower pointy part of Texas from San Antonio-Austin southward went solidly for Hillary.
I'm only familiar with the eastern and south-eastern parts of the state. Houston and Dallas are the only real Democratic strongholds in that portion, though there are a goodly number of Dems around Nacogdoches and College Station (probably because of SFA and A&M). Other than that, it's a red ocean from Corpus Christi to Texarkana. Thankfully, the population of that area is pretty sparse.
  #2449  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:05 AM
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I don't think saying that Trump will appoint his youngest child to the justice department is in any way an attack on Barron. He's appointed the rest of his family to positions that they are unqualified for.

But whatever.
I thought Tiffany had kept herself clear from the clusterfuck. No?
  #2450  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:11 AM
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I thought Tiffany had kept herself clear from the clusterfuck. No?
Other than one appearance at one of the debates, yes.
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