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  #201  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Zeriel is offline
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Originally Posted by velveeta View Post
SPOILER:
Playing multiplayer is the only way to get enough end-game assets to get the "good" ending.
SPOILER:
I don't think this is correct. Granted, you must play 100% perfectly and miss no pickups and miss no missions (and get both geth and quarian, etc.), but I got the good ending and I haven't touched multi.
  #202  
Old 03-18-2012, 08:13 PM
velveeta is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
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I don't think this is correct. Granted, you must play 100% perfectly and miss no pickups and miss no missions (and get both geth and quarian, etc.), but I got the good ending and I haven't touched multi.
You are a rare one who got it! Everything I read said it was not possible to get the 4000 ems needed to see that last scene without multi. However, after reading this it appears to be tied to completing everything from all the games and a certain decision near the end:

SPOILER:

To get the “Perfect” Ending in Mass Effect 3, play the game with the New Game+ option or with an imported character from ME2, with an achieved 4000+ EMS rating and choose the Red, or Renegade Option. With 4000+ EMS you must rescue Anderson from the Illusive Man’s execution. With 5000+ EMS, you can rescue Anderson or let him die. This ending comes after a short post-credits conversation between a man and child.
During NG+ or with an imported character from ME2, the Prejak Paddle Fish will counts as a War Asset, which in turn increases your EMS (Effective Military Strength) score. That means you’ll want to invest in a Fish-Feeding VI. Learn how to find the fish on our Prejak Paddle Fish Easter Egg page.
Shepard seemingly is killed, but the ending will be extended slightly with a shot of Shepard’s charred armor as it takes a deep breathe after the short “Stargazer” segment. According to fan theory, maybe that stuff on the Citadel was a hallucination!


So maybe all I'm missing is a fish?

Last edited by velveeta; 03-18-2012 at 08:14 PM.
  #203  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:38 PM
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You are a rare one who got it! Everything I read said it was not possible to get the 4000 ems needed to see that last scene without multi. However, after reading this it appears to be tied to completing everything from all the games and a certain decision near the end:

SPOILER:

To get the “Perfect” Ending in Mass Effect 3, play the game with the New Game+ option or with an imported character from ME2, with an achieved 4000+ EMS rating and choose the Red, or Renegade Option. With 4000+ EMS you must rescue Anderson from the Illusive Man’s execution. With 5000+ EMS, you can rescue Anderson or let him die. This ending comes after a short post-credits conversation between a man and child.
During NG+ or with an imported character from ME2, the Prejak Paddle Fish will counts as a War Asset, which in turn increases your EMS (Effective Military Strength) score. That means you’ll want to invest in a Fish-Feeding VI. Learn how to find the fish on our Prejak Paddle Fish Easter Egg page.
Shepard seemingly is killed, but the ending will be extended slightly with a shot of Shepard’s charred armor as it takes a deep breathe after the short “Stargazer” segment. According to fan theory, maybe that stuff on the Citadel was a hallucination!


So maybe all I'm missing is a fish?
Sadly, that sounds about right--I didn't even notice the damnable fish on my War Assets screen but I went back and there it was.
  #204  
Old 03-18-2012, 11:49 PM
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This page discusses some of the points in favor of the theory that what we see at the end is Shepard's struggling with indoctrination. Here's one point that I find persuasive:

SPOILER:
I hadn't noticed, but apparently the different 'choice' stations are color-coded, not just the resulting explosion. But the color coding is the reverse of what you would expect from the by-now ingrained blue-for-paragon and red-for-renegade scheme -- Illusive Man is shown going for blue, but Anderson is shown going for red.

Now that this has been pointed out to me, I just can't believe it's possibly a coincidence that the stations in which you chose are physically arranged like the choices on the dialogue wheel, only again the relation between 'red' and 'blue' is flipped. Those colors don't appear on the side of the wheel where the paragon choice is counter-clockwise of the renegade choice. Of course, neither does green. But otherwise it looks like a strange bit of meta-game symbolism.

And apparently only the 'red' choice has the possibility of resulting in the 'Shepard lives' cut scene. Whether or not it was well executed, I now doubt that Bioware didn't have something like this in mind.

But, given that Dragon Age II proved that Bioware was oblivious to how angry it would make players to have everything they cared about in the story made irrelevant, there's ample evidence that it's just sloppy, stupid writing even if the dialogue wheel was elevated into a visual symbol of a mental state struggling against indoctrination.
  #205  
Old 03-19-2012, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by velveeta View Post
BTW, my husband is upstairs playing and hasn't finished yet. I can hear the noise of the relays and the foghorn of the reapers as he moves the Normandy around the galaxy setting everything right.
I feel so sad knowing that he's headed for that concrete wall of an ending and will soon be as sad about it as I am.
You can still save him. Just wait until he's on his way to the Crucible, walk over to the TV, and unplug it. It's for his own good.
  #206  
Old 03-19-2012, 01:09 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Angel View Post
Well, I can now read the thread again, because I have finished the game.
SPOILER:


Here's one thing where Kirk and Picard have it over Shepard. When they find an ancient, powerful mysterious entity imposing its will on 'organics' or 'humans' or 'young races' they get to call these godheads on their bullshit -- and win.
Even John Sheridan does it better than Shephard. "Get the Hell out of our galaxy" indeed.
  #207  
Old 03-19-2012, 01:17 AM
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This page discusses some of the points in favor of the theory that what we see at the end is Shepard's struggling with indoctrination.
I admit I haven't played the game, but I've been following this 'controversy' with some interest, and I really really like this theory.
  #208  
Old 03-19-2012, 02:15 AM
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You can still save him. Just wait until he's on his way to the Crucible, walk over to the TV, and unplug it. It's for his own good.
That's silly.
He an always turn the TV back on.

Smash the disc.
  #209  
Old 03-19-2012, 03:01 AM
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I admit I haven't played the game, but I've been following this 'controversy' with some interest, and I really really like this theory.
As do I. But really that just shows how awful the actual ending is, that "but it was all a dream, and then Shepard woke up and had an ending that didn't suck" is considered superior.

As an aside, does anyone else think the use of that kid throughout the game was a misstep? If you want me to care about a representation of all the lives lost in the war to stop the Reapers, some idiot civilian who indirectly committed Suicide By Reaper is not a good choice. Far better would be the squadmate who died at Virmire during the first game: someone Shepard knew, trusted and made a deliberate decision not to save.
  #210  
Old 03-19-2012, 04:40 AM
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It's also a misstep to use whether or not Shepard lives as having any sort of weight: it's irrelevant. The question has already been dealt with: the whole point of ME II is that Shepard and her whole team are 100% ready to die to stop the Reapers. No hesitation, no doubt. I mean, giving up your life to save organic life isn't more dramatic than giving up your life to save an individual, or for a more complex cause: it's less dramatic, because it would be a more obvious Right Thing To Do. Shepard was willing to die--did die--to save Joker at the start of ME II. It's no new revelation to her character if she's willing to die to save everyone and everything.

The strength of Mass Effect is that by the end, you believe in the epic--that the individual can only be free to be an individual if, paradoxically, they are willing to sacrifice their lives for the whole.
  #211  
Old 03-19-2012, 04:55 AM
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It's also a misstep to use whether or not Shepard lives as having any sort of weight: it's irrelevant. The question has already been dealt with: the whole point of ME II is that Shepard and her whole team are 100% ready to die to stop the Reapers. No hesitation, no doubt. I mean, giving up your life to save organic life isn't more dramatic than giving up your life to save an individual, or for a more complex cause: it's less dramatic, because it would be a more obvious Right Thing To Do. Shepard was willing to die--did die--to save Joker at the start of ME II. It's no new revelation to her character if she's willing to die to save everyone and everything.

The strength of Mass Effect is that by the end, you believe in the epic--that the individual can only be free to be an individual if, paradoxically, they are willing to sacrifice their lives for the whole.
The issue, for me, isn't Shephard living or dying. It's that no one is saved despite everything I have done, and everything is reset.

SPOILER:
  • The Citadel? Gone, and what happened to everyone there? I built up the Citadel Defense Force - if it's gone, why would it EMS matter?
  • I brought peace to the Geth and Quarians. Does that make any different now that all the Mass Relay is gone? The Quarians cannot return home, and neither can the Geth
  • The same with the Krogan. So what now that the Genohage is cured? Their fighting men, perhaps the bulk of their population is stranded at Sol.
  • The colonies and outposts that depends on supply runs are doomed, because that Relays are offline.
  • There are slower FTL available, it's a good point that the Relays have to go because they are the relics of the Reapers. However, the slower FTL won't get the fleet anywhere at all unless star-kid suddenly gives everyone a new form of fast FTL that allow the fleets to reach home in hours time
  • Also, with the fleets accustomed to hours travel times instead of decades/centuries, their cargo hold is unlikely to have much supply.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 03-19-2012 at 04:58 AM.
  #212  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:33 AM
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What Crowbar said.
SPOILER:
A heroic sacrifice is worth jack shit if it doesn't really help. Oh boy, we all get to die slowly instead of being turned into Reapers. Great.

Besides, I'm fine with heroic sacrifices in games. I also know that Bioware tends to do this and/or a "not really happily ever after" ending... Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic are examples.

This just isn't that good of an ending, IMO.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 03-19-2012 at 05:34 AM.
  #213  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FinnAgain View Post
That's silly.
He an always turn the TV back on.

Smash the disc.
No, no, you can download it off Origin. Tell him that the ending is actually Hannar porn.
  #214  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
The issue, for me, isn't Shephard living or dying. It's that no one is saved despite everything I have done, and everything is reset...
<snipped>
Just to add on some thoughts - some defended the ending saying that we don't explicitly need to see the aftermaths at all, such as:

SPOILER:

such as Quarians re-building on Rannoch, little Krogan-Mordin, Jacob and his Shephard-boy, Anderson reuniting with Sandy etc. We can all infer that from what happens throughout the game. That's fair.

But with the ending destroying all Mass Relays, and without further information, all that is left of the galaxy is a husk (heh) of its former self. It's as good as extinction. And with all the relays gone, without the Reapers or the other races to uplift any lower-evolved species, will there even be meaningful intelligence life for the next cycle?

The ending, as it is, is just an epic proportions of rock falls, everyone dies.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 03-19-2012 at 05:57 AM.
  #215  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
What Crowbar said.
SPOILER:
A heroic sacrifice is worth jack shit if it doesn't really help. Oh boy, we all get to die slowly instead of being turned into Reapers. Great.

Besides, I'm fine with heroic sacrifices in games. I also know that Bioware tends to do this and/or a "not really happily ever after" ending... Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic are examples.

This just isn't that good of an ending, IMO.
SPOILER:
I think you guys misunderstood me. I am not saying that she should or shouldn't have died. I am saying that by the end of MEIII, I didn't care any more: not because I am not invested in her--I am--but because I buy into the story, and in the story whether or not any one person--even Shepard--makes it is really beside the point. I don't need a crisis where we see whether or not she's willing to give her life for humanity. OF COURSE SHE IS. So is everyone else. So is EDI, so was Legion, which I think are the ones that matter, as it shows that synthetics won't inevitably wipe out humanity. The fact that the Bioware writers apparently thought that Shepard's fate was a meaningful distinction between the endings shows that they don't understand their own story. I don't need my Shepard to live, I need her to matter.
  #216  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:19 AM
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I think you guys misunderstood me. I am not saying that she should or shouldn't have died. I am saying that by the end of MEIII, I didn't care any more: not because I am not invested in her--I am--but because I buy into the story, and in the story whether or not any one person--even Shepard--makes it is really beside the point. I don't need a crisis where we see whether or not she's willing to give her life for humanity. OF COURSE SHE IS. So is everyone else. So is EDI, so was Legion, which I think are the ones that matter, as it shows that synthetics won't inevitably wipe out humanity. The fact that the Bioware writers apparently thought that Shepard's fate was a meaningful distinction between the endings shows that they don't understand their own story. I don't need my Shepard to live, I need her to matter.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Sorry I misunderstood you.
  #217  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:33 AM
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Agreed wholeheartedly. Sorry I misunderstood you.
Same here. It's quite tone-deaf of them. I accepted the "meh" ending of DA2 because I know they're setting up for the next game, and there are only a certain number of outcomes they can allow for. But this is apparently the end of the/a Major Arc in this game universe, and... yeah.
  #218  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:45 AM
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As do I. But really that just shows how awful the actual ending is, that "but it was all a dream, and then Shepard woke up and had an ending that didn't suck" is considered superior.

As an aside, does anyone else think the use of that kid throughout the game was a misstep? If you want me to care about a representation of all the lives lost in the war to stop the Reapers, some idiot civilian who indirectly committed Suicide By Reaper is not a good choice. Far better would be the squadmate who died at Virmire during the first game: someone Shepard knew, trusted and made a deliberate decision not to save.
It's true that the kid's story wasn't nearly as touching as just listening to the civilian over the radio as the soldier tried to talk her through applying a tourniquette, and then the Reapers came...

The kid was heavy-handed symbolism, which common wisdom in writers' workshops says that audiences will reject and even resent. Of course, in the 'it was all a dream' reading:

SPOILER:
...at least the kid could serve a more-than-symbolic function. As Flannery O'Connor wrote, before a wooden leg can be a symbol, it first has to be a wooden leg. It has to have a role in the story, that is, other than being symbolic. In the 'struggle against indoctrination' theory, the kid is an actual nightmare Shepard is having, which is then being used against her, to cause confusion.


Also common lore in writers' workshops is that audiences hate 'it was all a dream' bullshit, especially for endings. It's cheap, dishonest, and often serves as cover for the writer's inability to write out of a corner. Now, Bioware probably also noticed that in truth audiences are actually often energized by this hatred and fascinated to discuss the controversy.

If we don't assume what happens is true, or that it's merely some dream-state analogy of what's really happening, then what we have is a combination of the 'it was all a dream' ending with the 'lady or the tiger?' ending. The aggregate, however, feels to me like the 'no ending' ending. As bitter as that is, however, at least it's not the:

SPOILER:
Three apocalypse ending. Because accepting the 'dream' excuse, I feel licensed to assume that the consequences of the choices aren't what they are presented as being. The mass relays don't all blow up for no reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they can buy themselves out of all the other stupidity with the 'dream' excuse, unless they want to drag that excuse all the way back to Mass Effect 2's ending where apparently making a new human-form reaper required juicing thousands of humans and using them as hydraulic fluid. "What are they doing with our genetic material?" Shepard asks. Actually, genetic material can be stored quite compactly for whatever purpose it was needed. The question should rather have been "Why the hell would they need megaliters of our meaty pulp?" Now, if everything from arriving at the Collector's base to the end of Mass Effect 3 was all a dream, even that glaring stupidity is explained away.

And this is precisely why people hate dream endings. It becomes a game of seeing what bad writing can be excused.
  #219  
Old 03-19-2012, 10:24 AM
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I have started to skim the thread because there seems to be some non spoiler boxed talk about the ending but I wanted to mention, if anyone should have the issue with the volume during conversations being low that I reported several pages back, right clicking and running the game as administrator seems to fix that. At least it did for me.
  #220  
Old 03-19-2012, 10:31 AM
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The reason "it was all a dream" is detested is because it's a deus ex machina that can be invoked when the writers have written themselves into a corner. If everything up until the sudden awakening is presented as 'real', then that's just poor writing.

SPOILER:
However, if seeds are laid in the story to provide hints, then it's more forgivable. And while the seeds aren't laid very early, the video embedded in the Indoctrination Theory page does a very good job of pointing out how everything gets really freaking weird right before the end. I don't think all of Mass Effect 3 turns out to be a dream, I think it's just that part in the Citadel. A short dream doesn't need a lot of advance planning, nor is it necessarily a copout. It can and has been used to great effect in certain movies, after all.

I think Bioware planned for a Real Ending DLC. While DLC is a dirty word right now, it has its uses, and I can see them holding off on the ending to give people a chance to play up to that point, get outraged, start talking about it, and for better or worse get themselves hyped up to see the real ending. Used that way, I think the delayed release of the ending probably will have vastly more dramatic punch than otherwise.

Of course, that only applies if the Real Ending DLC is free. If they expect you to pay, fuck them hard. And I suspect there's going to be a lot of people who'll still see it as a copout reaction to the outrage no matter what.

Last edited by Bosstone; 03-19-2012 at 10:32 AM.
  #221  
Old 03-19-2012, 10:44 AM
velveeta is offline
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You can still save him. Just wait until he's on his way to the Crucible, walk over to the TV, and unplug it. It's for his own good.
I'm think about turning it off right when he
SPOILER:
gets hit by Harbinger's beam.


And then nuke the disk from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
The End!

Last edited by velveeta; 03-19-2012 at 10:46 AM.
  #222  
Old 03-19-2012, 10:50 AM
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The reason "it was all a dream" is detested is because it's a deus ex machina that can be invoked when the writers have written themselves into a corner. If everything up until the sudden awakening is presented as 'real', then that's just poor writing.
Somehow it must be gotten across to writers that gimmicks like this actually punish your audience for their willing suspension of disbelief. And a story like Mass Effect depends heavily on willing suspension of disbelief. There are a lot of plot holes. I know I forgive all these except

SPOILER:
Udina's betrayal, which didn't make sense as given. The Dalatrass gave you the warning just after she had declared herself your enemy, Bailey and C-Sec show up at a suspicious time. The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it looks like part of that plotline just got dropped.


My recommendation is not to try for a tricky ending for any story that is not absolutely airtight in its plotting and premises, because in general you're just pissing away the audience's trust and making them actually pay attention to things they just let you get away with.
  #223  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:01 AM
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SPOILER:
Of course, that only applies if the Real Ending DLC is free. If they expect you to pay, fuck them hard. And I suspect there's going to be a lot of people who'll still see it as a copout reaction to the outrage no matter what.
Interestingly, the Witcher 2 for Xbox360 has an extended ending (called "extended out-ro"). Originally, the game ended rather abruptly, but with closure, as a certain NPC who was your nemesis stayed along and explained all the twists and turns of the game, but there wasn't a proper epilogue. For the xbox360 version, the developers added one.

Best of all, the new content for the xbox360 will be available for the PC too. Price? Free.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 03-19-2012 at 11:02 AM.
  #224  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:20 AM
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Here's a Google doc with every glaring flaw in the ending. I haven't gone through the whole thing yet, but it's interesting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ilebasic?pli=1

If the indoctrination theory is correct than I feel like it's the greatest game of all time - as long as there is a free DLC ending.
The pessimist in me says it's just poor writing.
  #225  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Angel View Post
SPOILER:
Udina's betrayal, which didn't make sense as given. The Dalatrass gave you the warning just after she had declared herself your enemy, Bailey and C-Sec show up at a suspicious time. The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it looks like part of that plotline just got dropped.
SPOILER:
I bought into that with the (admittedly implicit) knowledge that Cerberus had something akin to working indoctrination technology going on--I assumed Udina had been subverted rather than being a willing traitor.
  #226  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:35 AM
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SPOILER:
I bought into that with the (admittedly implicit) knowledge that Cerberus had something akin to working indoctrination technology going on--I assumed Udina had been subverted rather than being a willing traitor.
Ditto.
  #227  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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SPOILER:
I bought into that with the (admittedly implicit) knowledge that Cerberus had something akin to working indoctrination technology going on--I assumed Udina had been subverted rather than being a willing traitor.
They never did explain Udina's mysterious change of hair color.
  #228  
Old 03-19-2012, 01:57 PM
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NB: these aren't spoilers, but speculation of what Bioware could do to explain away their crappy ending.

I just want to say that audiences (understandably) hate the "it was all a dream" ending when the dream encompasses the majority of the movie/book/game. It's a big "fuck you" to an audience that willingly suspended disbelief and tried to follow along with the rules the writers laid out along the way, and especially abuses the audience's emotional connection with the characters and their travails.

However, a brief interlude preceding the real climax, which turns out to be an attempted (but thwarted!) mindfuck by the antagonist, wouldn't have the same level of betrayal and "why did I just bother watching the whole story if it was a dream?" element. I'm quite sure I've seen more than one movie that uses this technique, but I'll be damned if I can remember specific titles, and I suppose to name them would be spoilers for those movies anyway. But I bet y'all can think of examples yourselves.

Spoiler joke for one of the endings. I think the option I chose is the best
SPOILER:
because here is how I like to imagine the aftermath of "Control" http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...n/bestblue.jpg


oh and (slight spoilers for peri-ending stuff)
SPOILER:

BTW, have you guys seen the Marauder Shields meme going around? Lacking a proper final boss fight, fans have adopted Marauder Shields as the ultimate antagonist, who turns out to have been trying to help you by keeping you from seeing the ending. It's silly and fun, and makes me love the fan community so much.
  #229  
Old 03-19-2012, 03:15 PM
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and I already picked up the game a while ago and am amazed at what they have done to it
Many of us are amazed at what they've done to it.
We didn't expect them to ruin the whole series with the final 10 minutes of the game.
  #230  
Old 03-19-2012, 04:29 PM
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I'm quite sure I've seen more than one movie that uses this technique, but I'll be damned if I can remember specific titles, and I suppose to name them would be spoilers for those movies anyway. But I bet y'all can think of examples yourselves.
One such movie that comes immediately to mind:
SPOILER:
Brazil. Nobody who appreciates the movie thinks the happy ending makes it complete or even a good movie. The final cut back to reality at the end is depressing as hell, but is also what makes it hit so hard and have such a lasting impact. It most certainly isn't any kind of cheat or copout.
  #231  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:26 PM
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oh and (slight spoilers for peri-ending stuff)
SPOILER:

BTW, have you guys seen the Marauder Shields meme going around? Lacking a proper final boss fight, fans have adopted Marauder Shields as the ultimate antagonist, who turns out to have been trying to help you by keeping you from seeing the ending. It's silly and fun, and makes me love the fan community so much.
I love that one!
Unfortunately, my husband kept going and now he is sad too. I was watching him play the last few minutes, and he just turned to me and said, "WTF?!"
Exactly. Whole franchise ruined in 10 minutes.
  #232  
Old 03-19-2012, 07:23 PM
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velveeta, we had the exact same experience. Chris took the kids a lot last week to let me play, so I finished first, and then spent the rest of the time he played trying to manage his expectations. Then when he finished, he literally turned to me and said "WTF?!" Then we spent the rest of the night talking about the plot holes and general suckiness.
  #233  
Old 03-19-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velveeta View Post
Exactly. Whole franchise ruined in 10 minutes.
I honestly think this is a bit extreme. Everything up until the last minutes
SPOILER:
either after Harbinger's laser or after the confrontation with TIM, depending on where you draw the line
is basically one of the best game experiences I've ever had--especially the beginning of the
SPOILER:
attack to retake earth
which gave me a huge sci-fi boner the likes of which I haven't had since, hell, watching B5 Season 4 for the first time.
  #234  
Old 03-19-2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
I honestly think this is a bit extreme. Everything up until the last minutes
SPOILER:
either after Harbinger's laser or after the confrontation with TIM, depending on where you draw the line
is basically one of the best game experiences I've ever had--especially the beginning of the
SPOILER:
attack to retake earth
which gave me a huge sci-fi boner the likes of which I haven't had since, hell, watching B5 Season 4 for the first time.
It was probably like 5 minutes if you went through that last bit quickly. I spent several long agonizing minutes trying to find another option. But I'm not lying when I say it ruined the entire franchise for me. I even wrote Bioware (nicely). I have never done that before, but I really wanted to let them know how my husband and I felt. Even if they never read it, it was cathartic for me. What an amazing ride it was until the ending that left me just... sad.
I don't need a happy ending, but how about one that just makes sense?

A company can be destroyed by something like this. I feel like they have to do something at this point or end up as another footnote. My only wish, if that happens, is that they take EA down with them. It is to dream...

Last edited by velveeta; 03-19-2012 at 09:01 PM.
  #235  
Old 03-19-2012, 09:03 PM
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I'm pretty sure they have something planned. Had something planned for a while.

Granted, their coyness in not being upfront may still hurt them.
  #236  
Old 03-19-2012, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
I'm pretty sure they have something planned. Had something planned for a while.

Granted, their coyness in not being upfront may still hurt them.
I am willing to believe that this is a stand in for a real ending that perhaps they didn't have time to finish. I'd be less sympathetic if it turns out the stunt was something they drumed up to get cute, rather than out of desperation. They pushed out the copies and braced for impact, and hopefully are working on a free DLC that gives a satisfying conclusion to the saga. But that won't change the fact that it was a shitty thing to do, whether out of desperation or out of attempt at cleverness. However, I am persuaded that they did not expect this crap to stand to begin with.
  #237  
Old 03-19-2012, 11:02 PM
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Anyone remember Fable 2's ending? (Or Stephen King's the Dark Tower series?) I think those two are about the only ones I can think of which came up to this level of fan rabies. Though the cancellation of Firefly is probably up there as well.
  #238  
Old 03-20-2012, 06:15 AM
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Well, it appears that I was wrong that Bioware couldn't have meant these to be the actual endings.

Quote:
We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.
Meanwhile, they've recently announced moving on to the next phase of Dragon Age. I find my enthusiasm for their next big thing somewhat restrained.
  #239  
Old 03-20-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Angel View Post
Well, it appears that I was wrong that Bioware couldn't have meant these to be the actual endings.



Meanwhile, they've recently announced moving on to the next phase of Dragon Age. I find my enthusiasm for their next big thing somewhat restrained.
Yeah, I don't know about you, but my enthusiasm for DA3 is low. I thought DA2 had a bad ending, but nothing like this. Fool me once, fool me twice, etc... I don't think I want to go for a 3rd time.

My husband was stewing all night and didn't want to talk about the game. Today, he's talking about it, and not in a good way. He has no desire to replay it at all either.
Meanwhile, the media is still claiming that it's just a vocal minority that doesn't like it. They need to worry about all the non-vocal people that don't like it.
  #240  
Old 03-20-2012, 08:56 AM
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I figure, what Bioware's earned from me is waiting for the discount bin fairy to strike their next game. I still think I got good value for the money I paid for ME3 (and I got the digital collector's edition), mind you.

I honestly think they're probably smart enough to do a Bethesda and fix this, though.
  #241  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:14 AM
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Exactly. I preordered the collectors edition because I had faith in Bioware. Not anymore. DAII was disappointing enough that coupled with MEIII that I'm not even going to buy DAIII until it's at 15 bucks on Ebay.

And yeah, if Bethesda could figure out how to fix Fallout 3, then Bioware should be able to figure out how to fix MEIII. Unless they've really got their heads up their asses. If there's no "Broken Steel" style expansion for MEIII, then fuck 'em.
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  #242  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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The Obligatory Downfall Parody

Unfortunately, obsessive nerds have made it very difficult to get ones outrage taken seriously. The Child's Play thing is a good start. But I've been trying to formulate an explanation that would make sense to someone who isn't a fan of even the genre, much less the game itself:

Take a movie like Steel Magnolias. You follow these characters through their trials and eventually come to a sadder but wiser happy ending with mixed joy and tears. If you didn't get that ending, wouldn't you feel you'd been misled? Wait, wind that back slightly. Suppose instead, you get right up to where the emotional climax is supposed to be but at the last minute there is an incoherent discussion followed by a never-before-mentioned bomb going off that devastates the whole town, though you do see some people still twitching in the rubble.

Furthermore, imagine that you expected a happy ending because you yourself ran around talking to people about their problems, confronting your own inner tumult, etc. Then you are given a choice of what color the explosion will be when all those things you accomplished become a waste.

Now, imagine that instead of having spent less than ten bucks and been involved for a couple of hours, you had spent over a hundred and invested hundreds of hours in the story over the past five years.

Nobody's asking for Julia Roberts to come back for the dead. But you don't turn a story advertised as a heartwarming tearjerker into a nihilistic farce about the meaninglessness of even trying at the last minute and expect the audience to be happy.
  #243  
Old 03-20-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnAgain View Post
Exactly. I preordered the collectors edition because I had faith in Bioware. Not anymore. DAII was disappointing enough that coupled with MEIII that I'm not even going to buy DAIII until it's at 15 bucks on Ebay.
This is where I am, down to pre-ordering the collector's edition, except I might buy DA3 a little sooner than that. Maybe on sale through a major retailer. I'd probably pay full price if all the reviews (fan included) say "OMG, you remember the DA2/ME3 endings? Bioware listened!"

The rest of the game was just so... moving. Then the very last bit manages to make you hate the thought of ever playing it again.
  #244  
Old 03-20-2012, 10:32 AM
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I wouldn't call ME3's ending the absolute worst ending to a video game; for me that dishonour goes to Command and Conquer 4: Tiberian Twilight, another EA franchise buyout and another final part...hmm. All the speculation about Kane and how he tied into the Red Alert universe, the answers boiled down to "Erm, he's an alien we guess. Red Alert? Have some Japanese robots straight out of a bad manga." And both the GDI and Nod endings were pretty much the same (hmmm...). Fan outrage peaked when Westwood's last efforts surfaced, which would have begun with GDI finding an Allied Chronosphere, which is already more awesome than the entirity of EA's final C&C offering.

/Off-topic rant.

On-topic hope:

Quote:
"We'll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be," he said. "This is not the last you'll hear of Commander Shepard.

"We also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories," Hudson added.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/mass-effect...195542082.html
  #245  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
"We also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories," Hudson added.
NO NO NO. It's not closure or answers. It needs to MATTER. Lord.
  #246  
Old 03-20-2012, 11:11 AM
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... and make sense with the series' lore and show that your decisions through the three games had some sort of impact and fit in thematically and...
  #247  
Old 03-20-2012, 12:31 PM
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And "wanting a happier ending" isn't the point either, contrary to the article's first paragraph!

BETTER. That does not automatically translate to "happier."
  #248  
Old 03-20-2012, 01:44 PM
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Indeed, the maker of this poll is also pissing me off, because 'brighter' is not the point. The point is that we want an ending that doesn't obviate everything that the player actually did. Hell, when the Reavers took the Citadel, that already dismissed in a line of dialogue everything the player had been asked to care about up to that point. Then, at the very end, everything you were asked to care about for the last three games was demolished with a bizarre mix of dispatch and obscurity, and an appalling indifference to how they previously tried to make you feel about all the peoples and places of this world.

The Indoctrination Delusion explanation would at least mean there was hope that there was a real ending besides choosing one of three History Eraser Buttons. You just assume it that Shepard stumbled through the attempted mind fuck and in the end managed to pick an ending that made your hundreds of hours and $180+ bucks worthwhile.

Anyhow, the game really was fantastic up to that point, except for the several plotlines that seemed to build up and get dropped. All those hints that various people are about to turn on Shepard just fizzle out, though by now we have to have come to accept that Shepard never sees betrayal coming no matter how obvious. Well, we're all Shepard now. All these plotlines were hints that Bioware was going to stab us in the back, and I sure as hell never saw it coming. Cēveat emptor!
  #249  
Old 03-20-2012, 01:47 PM
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Yes, I really hate the coverage that states people want a happier ending. That may be true of some people, but most are looking for "coherent" and "in keeping with the overall narrative."

Hell, (I guess I better spoiler this because it includes information about what I thought would happen in the end but doesn't) the minute Liara said "Oh we've got this superweapon but it's missing a piece called the "Catalyst" I assumed
SPOILER:
it would turn out Shepard was the Catalyst and had to climb in and get disintegrated or something to make the thing work. And I was OK with that, because it would fit with the epic hero narrative tradition.

Last edited by Unauthorized Cinnamon; 03-20-2012 at 01:48 PM.
  #250  
Old 03-20-2012, 01:54 PM
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Exactly. I'd be 100% fine with a Shep Dies!!! ending, but it would have to make sense. And even if Shepherd dies, I'd still want to know what happened to the rest of the galaxy. And even if Shep dies, then smashing all the mass relays and plunging the galaxy into starvation is a lame way to end the series even if you win. There it's not that there has to be a happy ending, but that if all the endings end up the galaxy starving to death, then there's really nothing you've done through the whole series that made a difference, and the whole series is about the effects of personal choice.
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