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  #251  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:17 AM
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You linked the correct list, it's back to being the top seller. It fell off the list for a few hours on the second day since that's when the bulk of the refunds would've happened. Now that we're past peak refunding, new sales have put it back on the list.

The 127k peak was from Sunday afternoon/evening. The weekend bump (Sunday is the biggest gaming day) kept the game from slipping too far from day 2 to 3, but I expect the numbers to drop significantly today. Peak time for games popular in both the U.S. and Europe tends to be around noon pacific, 3 eastern, 8-10pm in most of Europe. Obviously it's not the prime time for each region, but that's the time the most people combined tend to be playing worldwide. Games that are more regional - soccer manager games for example - will have a different peak time.
  #252  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:26 AM
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I honestly believe that the PS4 was prioritised to the point that the PC version was very much neglected. Why they didn't delay the launch further is a good question, probably as they anticipated middling reviews for the PS4 version and so didn't want to harm sales.
Right. Same with movies. When you know you have a bad product, or at least one that won't meet expectations, your goal is to hype it up so much that people will unthinkingly consume it before they wait a moment to see if it's any good.

That's why I don't understand the preorder mentality. If a game is good, great, you can still get it after reading some reviews and not lose anything, but if a game is bad then you're playing into their exact gambit of trying to make you buy their product before you can find out its bad. Why anyone volunteers to buy into that gambit I honesty have no idea. It's not like you have to wait long - you waited months or years for the game, but you can't wait a few hours to see if the game is a disappointment before committing your money to it?

Reviews are up soon (they should be up before release except when game companies embargo them, which should be a huge fucking red flag to everyone but rarely is), people will have twitch streams, there are user reviews, there's word of mouth - it's so easy and so quick to get information about the worth of the game, and yet people voluntarily rush to make sure they get their money in blind. And for no benefit. And it allows companies to keep releasing bad games and bad movies because no one ever learns and just keeps blindly committing their money in an all risk no reward poor impulse decision.
  #253  
Old 08-15-2016, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
The impression they're giving through their twitter account is that they're basically completely overwhelmed by the response and can't quite handle it in their current state.
This is the fiftieth time a new video game's server demands have overwhelmed the company that made it. It's very old news. They always cheap out on the post-release resources and it always bites them in the ass.

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That's why I don't understand the preorder mentality.
My best friend preordered No Man's Sky for PC. I told him straight up he was an idiot. I don't for the life of me understand why he lent Steam $60 interest-free dollars for a product he didn't know the quality of. It's mystifying - one of the most flatly, unquestionably irrational consumer decisions I can think of, really. I don't even think he got a discount.

Maybe it's a holdover from the days when you had to buy the product in a store and they might not have any left on the date of release? I'm not sure. But if the reviews had been like "omfg this game is everything you'd dreamed of" I'd have bought it from Steam on August 12 and had it every bit as much as Mister Pre-Order, except I never ran the risk of it being... well, what it is.
  #254  
Old 08-15-2016, 10:37 AM
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Eh. I preordered for the cool ship and exploring is fun.
  #255  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post

That's why I don't understand the preorder mentality. If a game is good, great, you can still get it after reading some reviews and not lose anything, but if a game is bad then you're playing into their exact gambit of trying to make you buy their product before you can find out its bad. Why anyone volunteers to buy into that gambit I honesty have no idea. It's not like you have to wait long - you waited months or years for the game, but you can't wait a few hours to see if the game is a disappointment before committing your money to it?
Well as I said earlier I pre-ordered for convenience and the reviews weren't going to change my mind. For what it's worth I bought a game called Fallout 4 that you may have heard of. It had good reviews, I didn't like it. So am I a dunce for pre-ordering a game with no reviews and liking it? Or am I a dunce for post-ordering a game with good reviews and not liking it, I don't know what I should do SenorBeef!
  #256  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:52 PM
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I preordered NMS because I knew it was going to be big, and likely to not live up to expectations. I wanted to be part of the conversation online about why it succeeded or failed while it was happening, and to do that in earnest I needed to play the game instead of just reading about it.
  #257  
Old 08-15-2016, 01:28 PM
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Eh. I preordered for the cool ship and exploring is fun.
Yep. I haven't encountered most of the problems folks are complaining about; I've been playing it (on PC) all weekend and having fun. There are some points that are a little tedious, and the UI is the usual broken-by-consolization, but the overall experience has been positive.
  #258  
Old 08-15-2016, 02:31 PM
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I've encountered the occasional frame rate drop but nothing severe and that's only near the huge animals.
  #259  
Old 08-15-2016, 05:14 PM
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As I prediccted, after the Sunday boost we had a big drop. 210, 140' 125, 85 at peak times over the first four days. Almost losing 2/3rds of the players.

As I said, steamcharts only keeps daily data for so long before it starts tracking just weekly and then monthly averages, so I can't compare those to fallout 4 / gta 5 specifically, but I track things like this because I find it interesting - losing 60% of your players in 4 days is extremely unusual. That usually takes a few weeks. And not all games follow that pattern. Some stay steady, some grow. Usually games with a short campaign will drop more quickly as people beat it, open ended games will tend to drop slower.

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  #260  
Old 08-15-2016, 10:21 PM
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...I'm seeing a big price difference between the GOG and Steam. Are there any differences between what they are selling? (GOG is $62 AUD, Steam is $90 NZD)
  #261  
Old 08-16-2016, 12:06 AM
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...I'm seeing a big price difference between the GOG and Steam. Are there any differences between what they are selling? (GOG is $62 AUD, Steam is $90 NZD)
AFAIK they are identical. Hello Games are running an experimental branch of the game on Steam trying to sort out bugs so in the end you may get faster patches through them.

So far I'm enjoying the game. It's pretty much exactly what I expected, a slow, exploration-for-the-sake-of-exploring game with a 1960's sci-fi vibe.

I've been messing around with the 64 bit version of http://www.x360ce.com/ and with some tinkering I've gotten my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick to work for the flight controls and a few basic buttons - I'm still using my keypad for some things like thrust, brake, scan etc. The handling is a bit odd at low altitude but it feels a lot nicer.

For PC there are some mods starting to show up http://nomansskymods.com/ so far about removing some of the odd vignetting/CRT effect, changing some of the colour saturation settings and removing a few of the nagging low health/suit audio warnings.
  #262  
Old 08-16-2016, 04:19 AM
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That's why I don't understand the preorder mentality. If a game is good, great, you can still get it after reading some reviews and not lose anything, but if a game is bad then you're playing into their exact gambit of trying to make you buy their product before you can find out its bad. Why anyone volunteers to buy into that gambit I honesty have no idea. It's not like you have to wait long - you waited months or years for the game, but you can't wait a few hours to see if the game is a disappointment before committing your money to it?
I preorder for a few reasons - financial (I might have the money when I preorder but can't guarantee I will when the game comes out), because I like the bonuses on offer, and also because sometimes I'm confident enough in a game that I want to be able to start playing it the moment it comes out.

Also, thanks to people on the internet with nothing better to do but play games all day, there's a pretty high likelihood of running into spoilers for games if you don't get into them sharpish - waiting a few days or weeks for the reviews to come in increases the likelihood of having the plot spoiled by then too.

And even if it's not a plot-tastic game, you've also got people gaining valuable skills/knowledge of the game's systems and maps, putting you at a disadvantage if you come in late to a multiplayer game, for example.

In short, there's lots of cromulent reasons to pre-order and they aren't about people being sheep unable to think for themselves.
  #263  
Old 08-16-2016, 07:24 AM
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Backtracking on the whole "no paid dlc, free content only" thing. Oh sure, he says it in the hypothetical, but he's just laying the groundwork for introducing the idea to prepare people.
  #264  
Old 08-16-2016, 09:55 AM
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Although it seems like it's more than a few technical issues. Turning off frame caps (which default to 30, why??) and turning on AF + Vscyn outside the game, seems to cure most of the issues people are having.
What's "AF"?
  #265  
Old 08-16-2016, 10:42 AM
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Quoth Martini Enfield:

I preorder for a few reasons - financial (I might have the money when I preorder but can't guarantee I will when the game comes out)...
This makes no sense whatsoever. Money doesn't just evaporate: If you don't spend it, then you still have it. The only way you could have the money at pre-order but not at release is if you spent it on something else meanwhile that you want or need more. In which case, the decision to pre-order is a deliberate decision to get something you don't want or need as much.
  #266  
Old 08-16-2016, 11:35 AM
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I preorder for a few reasons - financial (I might have the money when I preorder but can't guarantee I will when the game comes out),
Because...your impulse control is so bad that you might've spent that $60 on something else? Or because an emergency came up that made you spend it? Because if it's the former, this is still silly, and if it's the latter, what happens when you preorder and then have that emergency?

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because I like the bonuses on offer,
Except that the interesting bonuses are increasingly getting moved to collector's editions and the like.

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and also because sometimes I'm confident enough in a game that I want to be able to start playing it the moment it comes out.
Except that in cases like this, you couldn't even predownload it, so even if you preordered, you haven't gotten to the game any faster. You still have to sit down at your PC and wait for it to download. All you've saved is the like, 30 seconds of clicking "Buy now" and confirming your credit card. That seems like a pretty low value add.

Quote:
Also, thanks to people on the internet with nothing better to do but play games all day, there's a pretty high likelihood of running into spoilers for games if you don't get into them sharpish - waiting a few days or weeks for the reviews to come in increases the likelihood of having the plot spoiled by then too.
As Beef pointed out, you don't need to wait days or weeks to find out if a game is arse. Hours would suffice. And in this particular case, there's really nothing to 'spoil'.

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And even if it's not a plot-tastic game, you've also got people gaining valuable skills/knowledge of the game's systems and maps, putting you at a disadvantage if you come in late to a multiplayer game, for example.
I got into a huge argument over this the last time, but really, who cares? If you wait a week, the advantage people will have over you in multiplayer will be laughable in a day or three. And this is a single player game.

Quote:
In short, there's lots of cromulent reasons to pre-order and they aren't about people being sheep unable to think for themselves.
None of which apply to this particular title, yes.
  #267  
Old 08-16-2016, 11:57 AM
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I bought the game (for PC) off of Steam late Monday night, after watching some you-tuber (Markiplier) play it (on his PS4).

For me, the game ran a little choppy with default video settings (Windows 10, 8gb RAM, GTX970 video card). I turned shadows and antialiasing off, and restarted the game. (Really? Having to restart the game for video changes? Le sigh.) It ran fine for about 2 1/2 hours, then the entire game suddenly lagged down (permanently) to 1/3 speed. Restarting the game fixed the lag problem. Experienced one crash to desktop after that. The PC version feels slightly rushed out the door.

Otherwise, I am enjoying poking around on my starting planet, exploring stuff.

I am optimistic, and hoping that new biomes (and other stuff) will continue to be added to the world generator, new recipes to craft (like building my own mining corp w/ trade port, making me money!), too.

One of the things I like about some games on Steam (like Civ V, Skyrim or XCOM2) is the Steam Workshop, where user generated mods can be found and tried out. IMO, this is a big help in keeping these game interesting. No Man's Sky sounds like it aught to benefit from something like this, but I don't know if it's possible to do...

Last edited by mlees; 08-16-2016 at 11:58 AM.
  #268  
Old 08-16-2016, 12:30 PM
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One of the things I like about some games on Steam (like Civ V, Skyrim or XCOM2) is the Steam Workshop, where user generated mods can be found and tried out. IMO, this is a big help in keeping these game interesting. No Man's Sky sounds like it aught to benefit from something like this, but I don't know if it's possible to do...
That's going to be up to the devs. I sure as heck hope they integrate workshop support too.
  #269  
Old 08-16-2016, 02:42 PM
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Someone on reddit made a rather extensive list of things that were promised but not delivered on, with cites.

Today's peak, assuming the peak is at a normal time, is just a touch below 70k, so under 1/3rd the day one concurrent player base in 5 days.
  #270  
Old 08-16-2016, 03:49 PM
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Some of us paid no attention to the hype and don't give a crap about what was promised.
  #271  
Old 08-16-2016, 03:58 PM
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I'm trying not to go after you personally, but you seem feel compelled to respond to every criticism about the game.

If you didn't care what was promised, why would you preorder the game? Isn't that based entirely off promises? Could the game have done anything to disappoint you?

I can't reconcile "didn't listen to the hype" and "don't care what was promised" with "I preordered the game" - if those had nothing to do with it, how'd you choose it to preorder? Dart board with all the upcoming games?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 08-16-2016 at 03:59 PM.
  #272  
Old 08-16-2016, 05:47 PM
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This makes no sense whatsoever. Money doesn't just evaporate: If you don't spend it, then you still have it. The only way you could have the money at pre-order but not at release is if you spent it on something else meanwhile that you want or need more. In which case, the decision to pre-order is a deliberate decision to get something you don't want or need as much.
That assumes a person who always makes logical financial decisions. I know that in the past I have been terrible at setting money aside or saving and end up spending it bit by bit on shit I don't need. These days video games are actually the shit I don't need that my money gets frittered away on, so nothing much has changed for me, just the scale of my spending.
  #273  
Old 08-16-2016, 05:54 PM
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If you didn't care what was promised, why would you preorder the game?
See post 254.
  #274  
Old 08-16-2016, 05:58 PM
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I'm trying not to go after you personally, but you seem feel compelled to respond to every criticism about the game.

If you didn't care what was promised, why would you preorder the game? Isn't that based entirely off promises? Could the game have done anything to disappoint you?

I can't reconcile "didn't listen to the hype" and "don't care what was promised" with "I preordered the game" - if those had nothing to do with it, how'd you choose it to preorder? Dart board with all the upcoming games?
For my part, the promises that sold me on the game were:

1. Effectively infinite universe.
2. Procedural generation.
3. The ability to name things and upload to a central database.
4. The possibility that another player can find worlds you've been to and vice versa.

That's about it.

So while there may be lots of things the game promised and hasn't delivered on, those promises did not affect my decision making process. I don't even know what most of them are because, despite my participation in this thread, I have not been following the NMS hype machine.

As it is, I haven't had a chance to play it yet. It's waiting at home for me.
  #275  
Old 08-16-2016, 07:25 PM
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There's been a lot of backlash videos about the game on youtube. Most are showing what was promised or what was said to be in the game vs what actually ended up shipping. Some of the commentary is fair, some not so fair. This one is on the unfair side, but it short and sweet and I can't stop laughing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYNriatnYkE

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-16-2016 at 07:26 PM.
  #276  
Old 08-16-2016, 09:11 PM
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With the exception of the ending (which I haven't gotten to yet) and the crashes (which, on the PC, I have not experienced even once), this review pretty much sums up my thoughts. I'm about 17 hours in (it was a rainy weekend ) and, though I've had great fun, it's gotten repetitive. I'm not really sure what to do anymore, other than stuff I've already done, albeit on a different planet with slightly different flora and fauna. It just feels.... not done.

I really do hope they put out some expansions. A few questlines, some more interesting/different things on the various planets, and it could be great.

They also need to fix some of the mechanics. As the review stated, space combat is miserable. Finding your way around a planet is totally random; you have no map, no compass, no way to set a waypoint and get back to it. As others have mentioned - find a cool crashed ship? You better hope you have everything on you to repair it, because if you head out to gather materials you might not have, good luck getting back.
  #277  
Old 08-17-2016, 12:20 AM
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Because...your impulse control is so bad that you might've spent that $60 on something else? Or because an emergency came up that made you spend it? Because if it's the former, this is still silly, and if it's the latter, what happens when you preorder and then have that emergency?
I do freelance work to provide an income for my hobbies. If I don't have any money in my hobby/fun stuff fund, I don't buy anything hobby related. The unreliable nature of freelance work means if there's money in the hobby fund and there's a game I am interested in, pre-ordering it means I'm guaranteed a copy when it comes out - even if there's no money in the hobby fund otherwise.

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None of which apply to this particular title, yes.
Where did I say I pre-ordered No Man's Sky? Nowhere, because I didn't pre-order it. People asked for reasons why someone might pre-order a game generally and I provided some of mine. Sorry they weren't on your Approved List.
  #278  
Old 08-17-2016, 03:26 AM
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Did anyone link Total Biscuit's review, yet? Well, not so much a review as a discussion as to the nature of NMS's fan hype and astute thoughts about the gaming community.

I'm giving this title a miss, which is too bad, because I had once held a great deal of hope for it.
  #279  
Old 08-17-2016, 07:29 AM
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Did anyone link Total Biscuit's review, yet? Well, not so much a review as a discussion as to the nature of NMS's fan hype and astute thoughts about the gaming community.

I'm giving this title a miss, which is too bad, because I had once held a great deal of hope for it.
I think there needs to be a video equivalent of TLDR. I don't care how astute the guy's thoughts are; I'd much rather read a transcript or (even better) a well-written article than spend 40 minutes watching a video.

I might try the game when it's cheap. So maybe a year from now.
  #280  
Old 08-17-2016, 08:19 AM
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This game sounds a bit like Empyrion. Similar gameplay?
  #281  
Old 08-17-2016, 08:35 AM
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I might try the game when it's cheap. So maybe a year from now.
Yeah, when it's $10 in the bargain bin and plays on my laptop like the easy time-waster game it is. Maybe in 10 years...
  #282  
Old 08-17-2016, 09:18 AM
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This game sounds a bit like Empyrion. Similar gameplay?
I have Empyrion on my wish list, and I took a deeper look at it last night because it is on sale @ 50% off. I'm also about 11 hours into NMS.

From what I can tell from a few reviews and videos, the gameplay and setting aren't all that similar. I welcome corrections, since I haven't played Empyrion.

* Empyrion stresses construction of bases (first) and vehicles/ships (later); in NMS you cannot construct anything

* NMS lets you travel the shared universe (in theory); Empyrion seems to be more your planet and close environs (moons, etc) - a difference in scale of travel

* Empyrion, due to its emphasis on construction, has a more in-depth (or more tedious, if you wish) mining/gathering mechanic, including the need to dig deep; in NMS, there really isn't any "digging" other than holes from your grenades

* NMS doesn't overwhelm you with "survival"; keep your suit charged and you're generally fine; in Empyrion, survival is more involved, complex, and deep.

Again, I appreciate any corrections or amplifications, especially since I'm considering buying Empyrion (and not just in response to NMS disappointment).
  #283  
Old 08-17-2016, 10:17 AM
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With the exception of the ending (which I haven't gotten to yet) and the crashes (which, on the PC, I have not experienced even once), this review pretty much sums up my thoughts. I'm about 17 hours in (it was a rainy weekend ) and, though I've had great fun, it's gotten repetitive. I'm not really sure what to do anymore, other than stuff I've already done, albeit on a different planet with slightly different flora and fauna. It just feels.... not done.

I really do hope they put out some expansions. A few questlines, some more interesting/different things on the various planets, and it could be great.

They also need to fix some of the mechanics. As the review stated, space combat is miserable. Finding your way around a planet is totally random; you have no map, no compass, no way to set a waypoint and get back to it. As others have mentioned - find a cool crashed ship? You better hope you have everything on you to repair it, because if you head out to gather materials you might not have, good luck getting back.
Space combat would be more fun by having shields recharge at the push of one button rather than four.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-17-2016 at 10:17 AM.
  #284  
Old 08-17-2016, 01:44 PM
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I think there needs to be a video equivalent of TLDR. I don't care how astute the guy's thoughts are; I'd much rather read a transcript or (even better) a well-written article than spend 40 minutes watching a video.
I know what you mean. It's a good video, thoughtful and insightful, but it's not short.

TL;DR for it is more less that gamers were deliberately conned into thinking the game was other than it was going to be, or that the developers really didn't know what they were doing with it.

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I might try the game when it's cheap. So maybe a year from now.
I doubt I ever will, myself, unless it changes a lot. The basic science and flight models (both atmospheric and in space) are just way too goofy. And it's clear the monster models and animation are half-baked: too Spore-like for me.

It's a pity. So much potential!
  #285  
Old 08-17-2016, 02:34 PM
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I have 33 hours in the game and just purchased a better ship. Thinking I'll hold off now and wait to see what the developer does.
  #286  
Old 08-17-2016, 02:43 PM
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I rather like the Kotaku review.

If this game were 30 bucks, I'd pick it up today.

edit: The tl;dr is that he hated it as a "get to the center of the galaxy" game but loved it when he tried again and slowed way down.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 08-17-2016 at 02:44 PM.
  #287  
Old 08-17-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Raza View Post
Again, I appreciate any corrections or amplifications, especially since I'm considering buying Empyrion (and not just in response to NMS disappointment).
I've only played Empyrion, not NMS, but that seems pretty accurate. Base and ship-building are key. Basic survival isn't too difficult, but going out to gather the rare resources is a reasonable challenge. There's also a constant low-level need to gather food, etc.

You can travel between different planet/moon systems (all in the same solar system), but (at least the way I was playing) I always came back to my main base. Exploration was to get stuff I couldn't get on the starter world.

It's been a few months since I played, so some stuff might have changed since then.
  #288  
Old 08-17-2016, 04:32 PM
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I loaded up Steam to look at Empyrion. I don't think it's for me, but it's worth pointing out that it's only ten bucks right now, half off the normal price.
  #289  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:01 PM
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I know what you mean. It's a good video, thoughtful and insightful, but it's not short.

TL;DR for it is more less that gamers were deliberately conned into thinking the game was other than it was going to be, or that the developers really didn't know what they were doing with it.
No, he argues rather that the community had a lot of bizarre expectations that weren't supported by anything the developers said. With that said, he does also say the developers should have been more careful about how they framed the things they did say.

For TB, the moral of the story has been that we all ought to exercise some critical thinking when it comes to what we hear from developers years before release of a game. If they seem to you to be promising, implicitly or explicitly, something too big to be plausible, then you should probably temper your expectations. I absolutely agree. It's what I've done concerning this game from the beginning, and it's why I had accurate expectations of the game going in, and it's why I continue to enjoy it today.

Having said all that I think the game could be much, much, much, much much better--and should be--and I hope this comes to fruition in further development. In particular, the actual, well, game parts of the game need massive amounts of development. We have right now basically a skeleton of a game. But what a skeleton.

Even if it doesn't go in good directions on further development, I salivate thinking about what the technical achievements of this game will mean for future games three, five, ten years in the future.

Last edited by Frylock; 08-17-2016 at 05:04 PM.
  #290  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:14 PM
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No, he argues rather that the community had a lot of bizarre expectations that weren't supported by anything the developers said. With that said, he does also say the developers should have been more careful about how they framed the things they did say.
No, you missed an important point. While Total Biscuit did direct advice to players to be more thoughtful about their hype, it's quite clear from the comments and developer quotes he presented that the developers themselves made contradictory and misleading statements, compared to the final version of the game. Either the developers were deliberately manipulating the hype of the community to obtain pre-orders, or they were in conflict/confusion about where the game was actually going.

Quote:
For TB, the moral of the story has been that we all ought to exercise some critical thinking when it comes to what we hear from developers years before release of a game. If they seem to you to be promising, implicitly or explicitly, something too big to be plausible, then you should probably temper your expectations.
Yes but you apparently missed the point made by Total Biscuit that the developers were aware of and therefore complicit in the hype and misconstruing of the actual game direction, especially with regard to multiplayer and their contradictory and misleading statements pertaining to it.

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Even if it doesn't go in good directions on further development, I salivate thinking about what the technical achievements of this game will mean for future games three, five, ten years in the future.
The achievements seem unremarkable to me. The Elite universe, for example, is far more technically impressive and realistic, even without yet being able to land on worlds with atmospheres. The Spore-like creatures and plants don't impress me at all. The flight mechanics in atmosphere and space are obviously half-baked at best, especially in space.

Last edited by Knorf; 08-17-2016 at 05:17 PM.
  #291  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:24 PM
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The Spore-like creatures and plants don't impress me at all. The flight mechanics in atmosphere and space are obviously half-baked at best, especially in space.
If you don't like a lot of the animals you're seeing, pay closer attention to the plants and mineral outcroppings (the discoverable minerals I mean, not the shiny mineable ones). For whatever reason, these seem to be a lot more clearly varied than the animals, and even as I discern commonalities between them, they do excellent work at keeping them varied even within type, and making the parts fit together in natural looking ways (again, not as true with the animals, to be sure, though I think people are too hard on that part of the game as well. You get some bizarre looking stuff, you also get some really majestic looking stuff, and it's all fun.)

Same goes for geographical features. I have no idea why people say every planet looks the same. The number of dimensions of variation in geographic features, and the degree of variation in each, leads to an absolutely distinct "fingerprint" so to speak for each world I've seen so far.

Last edited by Frylock; 08-17-2016 at 05:26 PM.
  #292  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:28 PM
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There are indeed some very cool things in the game. Such potential!
  #293  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:28 PM
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N
Yes but you apparently missed the point made by Total Biscuit that the developers were aware of and therefore complicit in the hype and misconstruing of the actual game direction, especially with regard to multiplayer and their contradictory and misleading statements pertaining to it.
Apparenlty so because I'm not aware of such a point about awareness having been made, but I freely admit it may be in there and I may have not been paying attention at that point or something. I'm surprised a bit, though, if he does make that point, since, as you say, he also mentions that based on everything we know it's entirely possible the developers were just, basically, confused and unsure as to what they'd actually be able to accomplish in a reasonable amount of time. (This is the impression I have about what went wrong. And by "the developers" I mean Murray, mostly. I'm not the first to compare him to Peter Molyneux--these poor guys seem consumately unable to keep hope, hype, and reality separate in their heads. )

Last edited by Frylock; 08-17-2016 at 05:28 PM.
  #294  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:37 PM
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Anyone wondering about buying the game, whatever other info you look at please disregard Levrakon's comment above, as it is not even close to being true.<snip>

Hell, it's hard to explain this but just the topographical variation--the sheer variety in _shapes of horizons_ I've encountered in my own gameplay and watching others' streams, kind of evokes a reaction from me. And that's just one variation dimension.

Levdrakon and others who say what he said above are really selling the game short.
Well I'm glad the topographical variation evokes a reaction in you. It evokes reactions in others too.
  #295  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:38 PM
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...he also mentions that based on everything we know it's entirely possible the developers were just, basically, confused and unsure as to what they'd actually be able to accomplish in a reasonable amount of time.
Indeed. As I suggestion in my TL;DR comment.

The real answer is probably a bit of both. Hello Games knew all about where the hype was going, and didn't clarify when they had the chance. But they liked the hype (who wouldn't?) and in the end were confused or conflicted about what they were doing or what they would be able to accomplish at release. (ETA: who knows what was going on in-house.)

Total Biscuit was addressing his video to players, hence the salient point being the urge for gamers to not get carried away if the developer appears to be promising the moon. But there's some fairly trenchant criticism of Hello Games along the way.

Last edited by Knorf; 08-17-2016 at 05:39 PM.
  #296  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:41 PM
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Almost certainly not; based on the sheer quantity of terrain, almost the only thing possible generation mechanism is procedural. The creatures, plants, and structures, and stuff sound like pre-made bits dropped into place as needed.



The randomness in those is made to facilitate specific gameplay, and so that the player can't know the next level in advance, even if they played before. Adapting to that level's particular configuration, whether through reflexes, planning, smart item use, or other skill is the game. But the randomness*itself isn't the point, nor is it just to have ten thousand dungeons for its own sake. It's to challenge the player. Additionally, all the procedural-generated worlds I've seen are either heavily simplified like Minecraft or 2d. This gives them a lot of flexibility to insert fun rules and interesting challenges, rather than focus on making it look good. The one exception is Fuel, which has a massive sprawling world - but Fuel has no interaction with that world except by driving around the surface.

*I originally typed in randommess. Seems apt.

So, if the main appeal is the mechanics, procedural level generation is good. If the main focus is the levels/worlds/enemies/NPCs, not so much? If so, what possible avenues, if any, might allow algorithms to create good levels/worlds/enemies/NPCs?



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Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Game Maker's Toolkit has a good article on how Spelunky's level generator works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqk5Zf0tw3o

Thanks for that link, rewatching it was instructive. What do you think are the main takeaways and contradistinctions to be made? I've got some idea but I'd like to hear yours first.




Pump 'n' dump:
I see someone has already mentioned Spore. Anyone else reminded of what happened with the Oculus Rift?
  #297  
Old 08-18-2016, 08:31 AM
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I loaded up Steam to look at Empyrion. I don't think it's for me, but it's worth pointing out that it's only ten bucks right now, half off the normal price.
This is intriguing; anyone who's played have any feedback on Empyrion? As I mentioned above, I'm kinda sick of NMS already, and it's looking like another rainy weekend...
  #298  
Old 08-18-2016, 09:49 AM
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I don't know what I should do SenorBeef!
Maybe you could write a novella about a game you won't play.
  #299  
Old 08-18-2016, 10:45 AM
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This is intriguing; anyone who's played have any feedback on Empyrion? As I mentioned above, I'm kinda sick of NMS already, and it's looking like another rainy weekend...
I too am interested!
  #300  
Old 08-18-2016, 11:05 AM
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I've played both. They're similar games, but:

Empyrion is a "builder" game, with minecraft-like elements. It's 'universe' is much less diverse (a single solar system with fixed, known biomes on each world, barring mods), and there's a lot less of everything in it. It's harder and more detailed in its crafting, and the environments are more "realistic" looking.

That said, it's not done. It's at Alpha 3, and it richly deserves that alpha label. There's effectively nothing to do once you get inter-planetary capability and have built the high end of the tech tree. It's wildly unbalanced - either trivial or impossible, depending on the settings and what you're doing. The universe is basically empty compared to NMS -- there's maybe ten different critters and maybe thirty different plants available in the entire solar system, and even in individual biomes there's a lot less diversity.

Empyrion is going to be a great game, but at the moment it's a not-very-rich sandbox with no real "game" behind it. I'm guessing it needs about 2 years more work to be a real competitor. That said, it's a fun 10-20 hours, and it's often on sale. I come back to it every few updates to see what it's added, but I don't stay.

Last edited by TimeWinder; 08-18-2016 at 11:07 AM.
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