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  #151  
Old 07-06-2018, 12:01 AM
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Yes, until the outside box gets filled. That's the theory at least. Can't guarantee it works every time in practice .

Also, it's a good idea to set your conveyor network receptacles to priority 1 so that dupes pull from it and move stuff to actual containers.
  #152  
Old 07-06-2018, 03:14 AM
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Yup. And if there are N boxes that accept Stuff with the same priority, dupes will default to the closest one ; so you can set up temporary dumps where they'll put all the little scraps from an area ; then when they're done messing about you dump it all in favour of another box and they'll start transfering it all by picking up the max they can carry instead of "whatever's at my feet"
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  #153  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:33 AM
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The reason it's more-or-less stable is because gases don't mix at all.

Any given square can only have one fluid in it.

There's an unpowered water/polluted water separator design too.

Yes, and gasses & liquids always seek the path of least resistance. In this particular case, in order for oxygen to flow down into the trap from the lip of the ladder, it would first have to void that one single tile of CO2, and since that CO2 can't physically go up (being heavier than O2), it would have to all be pushed and compressed into the square immediately below (and possibly the diagonals). Which typically requires more force/pressure exerted by the O2 than just flowing up, left or right the ground and mixing with the existing O2 in those tiles. And so O2 just doesn't flow down (barring very high pressure differentials, possibly).



Using those same properties, you can make airlocks out of CO2 (by setting some down in a kind of U-bend or T tetris-piece shaped little hollow if you prefer), which won't ever let gasses flow through as long as there's CO2 in the pit all the way to the "ceiling" of the deepest part of the U. That design *might* be sensitive to very high pressure differentials (haven't tested it to e.g. contain a high pressure steam vent), but it's plenty good 'nuff to seal an early base from the swamp biome, all without any tech researched or dupes getting slowed down by waiting for airlock doors to open (and in any event airlock doors allow some modicum of gas exchange to happen every time they open, so you have to build them in series for them to just not let any of the bad stuff in... it's annoying and takes space/power/time). I often use that setup to link my 'shroom farms with a submerged slime bin sitting outside the lock for example.



If you replace the CO2 in the U with some water, it'll make an actually perfect seal because gas can't displace liquid, period. The downside then is that dupes get soaked passing through, which stresses them out. In most standard applications CO2's good 'nuff.
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  #154  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:17 AM
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I'd recommend using chlorine airlocks for the swamp, rather than CO2 - get disinfection as a bonus. As for the "soaked" debuff...that's what massage tables & décor are for.

As for the question about pumps...I think you're right - it can pump whatever is on any square covering the pump. I tend to over-engineer solutions for what should be simple situations like that. Especially since, as the game is still alpha, I have an unfortunate tendency to remember how things *used* to work, rather than what they were changed to be.
  #155  
Old 07-06-2018, 01:15 PM
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Yeah, but for some reason I have brain spiders about chlorine.

I *know*, rationally, that in this game it's just another mostly harmless gas that will only make dupes puff up their cheeks and as long as you don't let it build up too much it's no bigger deal than CO2 is ; but years of WW1 history must have definitively labelled it as "SUPER TOXIC handle with extra care" to my addled brain . I swear I manipulate that stuff like it was nuclear nitroglycerine cancer and the smallest mistake means my entire colony is going to up and die on the spot if it escapes containment for a millisecond. Whereas I'm in contrast pretty damn cavalier about handling lava.

Just one of those idiosyncrasies I guess
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Last edited by Kobal2; 07-06-2018 at 01:16 PM.
  #156  
Old 07-06-2018, 03:53 PM
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Newest problem: my polymer presses won't pump. They're undamaged, not overheated. They have petroleum pipes connected right to them, and when I hover over the connection, alongside the refinery status it also says "10kg of petroleum at 120f", meaning the pipe right next to it is full. No error message or anything, it just says "not pumping" - they're powered, they've got petroleum, they're not disabled, there's no automation attached to them, there are no error messages - I can't figure out why they're not producing plastic.
  #157  
Old 07-06-2018, 04:02 PM
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And.... even though it's a problem that has stuck around for like 15 cycles now.... as soon as I post it I figured it out, the CO2 exit line on it (which I forgot they had) had a broken section between it and the liquid vent. It could've said pipe blocked or something.
  #158  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:32 PM
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Not sure, but I agree that some expansion in automation would be great. Factorio is an excellent model here; its "circuit networks" are much more advanced than ONI's automation, since the signal wires can carry far more information than a binary signal. Not sure how far down that road they want to go, though.

Among other things, Factorio has a siren building that can be set to go off based on boolean operations. So you can easily test if some resource is below a limit and get an audible notice in that case.
Would someone who enjoys ONI be likely to enjoy Factorio? How are they alike/different?
  #159  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:55 PM
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Would someone who enjoys ONI be likely to enjoy Factorio? How are they alike/different?
I'd think so. I do, at least!

In both games, you collect resources, build stuff, and manage several different systems (electricity, fluids, etc.) to keep your base running. To unlock more advanced buildings you have to do do research. Factorio has an ostensible goal of launching a rocket, but really you can just treat it as open ended.

Factorio has a survival aspect (don't let the aliens kill you) but it's a relatively small part of the game (and in fact I usually play with that disabled). There's no food or anything that will run out in Factorio and not much in the way of damaging waste products. In ONI, it's crucial that you not just manage but exploit waste products (heat, CO2, pollution, etc.). If you don't, your colony will die. In Factorio, if you run out of materials you just explore further out.

The satisfaction in Factor (for me) comes with building a smoothly running, self-sufficient base. You can use automation to turn resource converters (oil crackers, etc.) on and off, direct trains and conveyor belts, etc. ONI never quite reaches that hands-off point; there is almost always some imminent disaster that you have to micromanage. There is still the goal of a smoothly running operation but it's not quite the same.

Factorio builds up to increasing degrees of automation. You start by mining resources by hand and eventually have a network of fully automated hi-tech production. You get some automation in ONI but you're still handholding it a lot. Because of this, a base in Factorio can be enormous. You can even use automation to build more of your base automatically--say, building out a huge solar farm. In ONI, all buildings are hand-placed.

So overall they're very different games and yet I think a person that would like one would like the other. They work on different scales and different degrees of micromangement but have a lot of the same core elements.
  #160  
Old 07-06-2018, 08:21 PM
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Thanks for the info. I'll try the demo.

Have you also played Don't starve (from the same developers as ONI), SpaceChem or Dwarf fortress? If so, how did you find them, especially compared to ONI? I'm asking Dr. Strangelove but anyone who's tried them is welcome to chime in.
  #161  
Old 07-06-2018, 08:34 PM
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Of those, I've played Don't Starve and SpaceChem.

I played a reasonable amount of Don't Starve, but ultimately I'm not a fan of permadeath games. I don't like it when one small slipup can erase many hours of work. I'm ok with permadeath for short games like FTL, but not when the consequences of dying get really huge. I don't play games to be stressed out continuously.

I've played a bit of SpaceChem and a fair amount more of other Zachtronics games like Infinityfactory, TIS-100, Shenzhen I/O, and others. I like them a fair amount. I'd say the main relation they have to Factorio or ONI is that they're like optimizing one very specific room or production area. Routing all the resource lines perfectly, making it as compact as possible, not wasting anything, getting the timing just right, etc. Zachtronics stuff doesn't have the large scale aspects where you chain together all these optimized subunits; they're about perfect optimization of a handful of components. This degree of optimization isn't necessary for Factorio or ONI, but it's there if you want it.
  #162  
Old 07-06-2018, 08:45 PM
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I'm just getting to a point where my duplicants aren't constantly starving/drowning in their own vomit/piss.


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Yeah, but for some reason I have brain spiders about chlorine.

I *know*, rationally, that in this game it's just another mostly harmless gas that will only make dupes puff up their cheeks and as long as you don't let it build up too much it's no bigger deal than CO2 is ; but years of WW1 history must have definitively labelled it as "SUPER TOXIC handle with extra care" to my addled brain . I swear I manipulate that stuff like it was nuclear nitroglycerine cancer and the smallest mistake means my entire colony is going to up and die on the spot if it escapes containment for a millisecond. Whereas I'm in contrast pretty damn cavalier about handling lava.

Just one of those idiosyncrasies I guess

Wait, there's freakin' lava?!
  #163  
Old 07-06-2018, 08:49 PM
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Wait, there's freakin' lava?!
Dig down, dig deep. Can't miss it.

I haven't found a use for it yet. I mean, I know I can somehow use it for a steam turbine system, but I haven't yet figured out how to set up a boiler and condenser system that recycles the water effectively. And also that doesn't destroy itself immediately.
  #164  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:21 PM
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Dig down, dig deep. Can't miss it.

I haven't found a use for it yet. I mean, I know I can somehow use it for a steam turbine system, but I haven't yet figured out how to set up a boiler and condenser system that recycles the water effectively. And also that doesn't destroy itself immediately.
Steel bottom with insulated tiles?


Does it have to be water? I suppose you could use it to clean polluted water. You could also cool a gas into a liquid then pour the liquid onto the bottom of your boiler. Or you could pour crude oil and use the heat to turn it into petroleum or natural gas. No more dealing with the squirrely oil refinery.

Perhaps something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyD2vYhILxQ
It seems like it could be smaller than the example here, like a compact rectangle.



Does the material of insulated tiles make a big difference? For normal tiles, I guess so but does the insulation outweigh the material so much that the material doesn't really matter?
  #165  
Old 07-06-2018, 11:43 PM
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Wait, there's freakin' lava?!

Oh yes. Liquid hot magmah is plentiful down in the depths. Sadly, no freaking sharks to attach freaking laser beams to have been found so far .
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  #166  
Old 07-07-2018, 04:19 AM
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Perhaps something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyD2vYhILxQ
I tried it. Works great! Almost too great, actually... I now have a virtually infinite power supply. I converted just a tiny bit of oil and one small magma chamber (not even fully cool, but solidified) and now have an enormous chamber full of natural gas. The only tricky part is cooling it off. I sent it to an ice chamber but that will only last so long. I may need to repurpose one of my nullifiers.

I'm actually kinda running out of things to do. I guess I can try building a solar array to be totally sustainable.
  #167  
Old 07-07-2018, 04:09 PM
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Finally got a good supply of plastic going, three geysers and a thermo-nullifier utilized, a crapload of water, around cycle 250, things are going good. Next, I think I'm gonna aim for the surface.

Some questions:
1) Is there any real purpose to comfy beds? I see it increases stamina, but I don't know that stamina has ever been an issue.
2) Are transport tubes the best use for plastic? If so, any tips about them? or will they be pretty self-evident?

One update that'd make the game seem super-polished: for each technology, a very short animation showing the item being implemented correctly. The in-game instructions can be pretty confusing to slowpokes like me.
  #168  
Old 07-07-2018, 04:25 PM
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Is there any real purpose to comfy beds?
The dupes are cute when they curl up like a tiny kitten in the middle of a huge bed.

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Are transport tubes the best use for plastic? If so, any tips about them? or will they be pretty self-evident?
I'd say they'll come in very handy if you plan on building anything near the surface. They really cut down on transport time. Downside is that they melt when they get too hot, so they aren't super useful for going down.

Use is pretty obvious. You need two stations and a tube between them. They can be hard to route since they're buildings and so you can't run ladders and stuff on top of them (unlike wires, pipes, etc.).
  #169  
Old 07-07-2018, 10:26 PM
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Well damn. Guess I'm gonna have to try something else. I still plan on using liquid cooling - it's just so much more efficient.
Have you managed to try the experiment yet? I'm curious what cooling rate one can get from alternative sources.

I've been using hydrogen for all of mine. I get about 60 K of cooling as the gas passes through the Nullifier chamber. The in-game heat capacity of hydrogen is 2.4 kJ/(kg-K) (according to Gamepedia), and I'm pumping 0.5 kg/s. That corresponds to 72 kW of cooling.

I think this is the peak since the Nullifier is going all the time--it doesn't stop due to being too cold. But maybe there's something else going on--there's no guarantee that the Nullifier has a constant cooling rate. If it lowers the temperature of a gas regardless of density, then a high density gas might work better. Or maybe it works less well at lower temperatures.
  #170  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:30 PM
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I tried chlorine and CO2 in sandbox mode. They're both worse than hydrogen--24 kW cooling power for chlorine and 46 kW for CO2. I'm kinda surprised there's a difference at all, really. Maybe the figures on Gamepedia are wrong (they don't match real-world figures, though that's not a surprise).
  #171  
Old 07-08-2018, 01:01 AM
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I was going to build a cooling loop in my base by pumping out newly generated oxygen, running it up to the nullifier, then back into my base to be pumped around my base. Is that a good idea? Seems simple and uses existing infrastructure. Is oxygen sufficient for that, or is its cooling power too poor compared to other options?
  #172  
Old 07-08-2018, 01:25 AM
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It's not a bad option. I did that for my first iteration. I suspect you'll be running at about 50% efficiency. You can always upgrade the system later if you like. That said--since you already have to run a hydrogen line to power the Nullifier, it's not all that more difficult to run a hydrogen loop.

Heat is my bane again. Building surface stuff requires steel (it's the only thing that holds up), and that makes a crapload of heat. I think I'm going to reconfigure some things (like my oxygen generators) to be a bit more heat-efficient; maybe then I can free up a Nullifier for other ends.
  #173  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:04 AM
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Have you managed to try the experiment yet? I'm curious what cooling rate one can get from alternative sources.

I've been using hydrogen for all of mine. I get about 60 K of cooling as the gas passes through the Nullifier chamber. The in-game heat capacity of hydrogen is 2.4 kJ/(kg-K) (according to Gamepedia), and I'm pumping 0.5 kg/s. That corresponds to 72 kW of cooling.

I think this is the peak since the Nullifier is going all the time--it doesn't stop due to being too cold. But maybe there's something else going on--there's no guarantee that the Nullifier has a constant cooling rate. If it lowers the temperature of a gas regardless of density, then a high density gas might work better. Or maybe it works less well at lower temperatures.
I'm actually just about to run it in sandbox mode. My biggest issue is getting enough chlorine. A single cell in a pipe is 10 kg, or roughly 10 full cells of chlorine gas at regular pressure. That's a lot, especially if you need to keep pipes full to prevent damage.
  #174  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:43 AM
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Experiment run - it's workable, but not as efficient as I had hoped. There is a roughly 9 K drop running radiant pipe through every square of the nullifier. With a .48 J/(kgK) heat capacity, and 10 kg/s, that's roughly...43 W of cooling. You might have added a k in there, from the looks of things.

Are you pumping gas through pipes? I wonder how well it would work to just seal the nullifier in it's own room, put a gas vent on one side of the nullifier, a pump on the other, and let pressure differential cool the entire thing. Since I can't just submerge the damn thing in liquid chlorine and go for broke.

I get the feeling I overengineered a cooling solution. Back to the dead dupes drawing board!
  #175  
Old 07-08-2018, 04:09 AM
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Experiment run - it's workable, but not as efficient as I had hoped. There is a roughly 9 K drop running radiant pipe through every square of the nullifier. With a .48 J/(kgK) heat capacity, and 10 kg/s, that's roughly...43 W of cooling. You might have added a k in there, from the looks of things.
It's 0.48 kJ/(kg-J), or equivalently 0.48 J/(g-K). So definitely in the kW range. Hydrogen is 2.4 kJ/(kg-K).

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I wonder how well it would work to just seal the nullifier in it's own room, put a gas vent on one side of the nullifier, a pump on the other, and let pressure differential cool the entire thing.
This is exactly what I've done. See here and here. The low-pressure input is the "filler". It takes in gas until it reaches steady-state. The high-pressure input does as you say--it completes the loop, while the gas pump pulls it from the other side. I get around 60 K of cooling with a flow rate of 0.5 kg/s.
  #176  
Old 07-08-2018, 04:12 AM
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I'm actually just about to run it in sandbox mode. My biggest issue is getting enough chlorine.
It would be cool if you could run the electrolyzer on something to get chlorine out. Salt water would make the most sense but polluted water would be reasonable (it seems to be a stand-in for water plus various contaminants).
  #177  
Old 07-09-2018, 01:06 PM
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This is exactly what I've done. See here and here.
I'm envious of your neat network laying. Mine looks like spaghetti.


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I tried it. Works great! Almost too great, actually... I now have a virtually infinite power supply. I converted just a tiny bit of oil and one small magma chamber (not even fully cool, but solidified) and now have an enormous chamber full of natural gas. The only tricky part is cooling it off. I sent it to an ice chamber but that will only last so long. I may need to repurpose one of my nullifiers.

I'm actually kinda running out of things to do. I guess I can try building a solar array to be totally sustainable.

It turns out that you don't even need a boiler, just crude oil which is close to magma. A single tile of abyssalite/igneous rock can hold in the magma and transfer heat to the oil which then turns into natural gas like this: https://imgur.com/a/qtSUcM3
The gas pump is up the ladder with an airlock on top.

Transforming more oil into natural gas will probably involve very carefully nibbling at the two tiles left of the magma.



Is there a way to activate an automated system whenever there's anything in a pipe? Not a specific element but anything. I'm trying to automate filters and I can hardly use the presence of a specific element in the feeding pipe as trigger since I can't be sure of what will go into the filter (otherwise I wouldn't need a filter).


A trick I've found useful: If you're going to build a significant amount of ladders or tiles and don't want to have long supply runs, look around the area in which you intend to build for the most common mineral. Mine that in priority 7 then order the ladders/tiles in priority 6. That will provide you with nearby building material and make the process much faster.
  #178  
Old 07-09-2018, 04:09 PM
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I'm envious of your neat network laying. Mine looks like spaghetti.
It's not all as clean as that! But I'm trying to improve things around the base. One problem with dense layouts like that its that they're hard to cross (no multi-pipe crossers).

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It turns out that you don't even need a boiler, just crude oil which is close to magma.
Yeah, I kinda discovered this after I built the boiler. Oh well; the insulated tile should cut down on heat loss a bit. And really, the single tiny magma chamber that I used up already should keep me going for a long time (I filled a huge chamber with gas at 25 kg/tile).

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Transforming more oil into natural gas will probably involve very carefully nibbling at the two tiles left of the magma.
Yeah. Be careful . One advantage of a boiler (even without extra tiles) over just letting a big pool of oil run into the magma is that you don't waste any heat to the unconverted oil. By letting the oil get close to the magma, some of the heat is being lost to the big pool of oil (including oil that will never get converted). If you instead dribble in tiny amounts of oil at a time, you don't run into this problem.

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Is there a way to activate an automated system whenever there's anything in a pipe? Not a specific element but anything. I'm trying to automate filters and I can hardly use the presence of a specific element in the feeding pipe as trigger since I can't be sure of what will go into the filter (otherwise I wouldn't need a filter).
I don't think you can quite do that--but if the pipe is always full of something, then you can detect the element you want and use a NOT gate to turn on the filter. I.e., to filter out everything but oxygen, then detect that and invert to turn on your filter.

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A trick I've found useful: If you're going to build a significant amount of ladders or tiles and don't want to have long supply runs, look around the area in which you intend to build for the most common mineral.
This is an excellent tip. It took me a few hundred cycles to discover it! Really, there's usually enough debris laying around that I don't need to mine anything first. Just find the few closest piles and stuff and build with that.
  #179  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:35 PM
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It's not all as clean as that! But I'm trying to improve things around the base. One problem with dense layouts like that its that they're hard to cross (no multi-pipe crossers).
Everything else is beyond me, but this has an easy solution. Run your single pipe down, and use bridges on the parallel pipes. Now, if you have an intersection of multi-pipes...well, you're on your own, at least until larger capacity pipes are put in (if they are, no sign that it's a thing, just a hope).
  #180  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:46 PM
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Everything else is beyond me, but this has an easy solution.
I should have added: difficult to cross when they are insulated or radiant types. There's no insulated bridge, unfortunately.

However, reading around a bit it appears that gas/liquid never actually enters the bridge; it goes directly from input to output, and hence the type is irrelevant. I have not tested this yet, but if true it makes my life a lot easier!
  #181  
Old 07-10-2018, 02:07 PM
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Having an issue where the game is constantly losing and rediscovering my resource inventory. Like under raw metals, I'll have 5T of iron ore, then suddenly it'll say I have 0, then my build orders with iron will pop up with "insufficient material", then 5-20 seconds later it'll correct itself and find the 5T of iron again and start building again. Plastic is just gone - listed as 0 even though I didn't use it. Diamond is listed at 0 even though I found 2500kg of diamond in a storage container. Other inventory is disappearing and reappearing too.
  #182  
Old 07-10-2018, 02:41 PM
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Figured it out. It's constantly re-evaluating whether or not materials are accessible, so if, say, your exo suit to a zone that stores all your type of one material runs out of oxygen, that material will disappear from your inventory, but once the exosuit gets oxygen, it'll reappear.
  #183  
Old 07-10-2018, 02:49 PM
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Yes, the way tasks and resources are ordered has to be complex which leads it to be counterintuitive. If a Dupe is moving away from a higher priority task you've assigned, it's possible that it's heading to a lower priority task it got before the higher priority task. You can click on the Dupe and have it move a few squares to shake it out of its focus and it'll update its tasks queue.


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Yeah. Be careful . One advantage of a boiler (even without extra tiles) over just letting a big pool of oil run into the magma is that you don't waste any heat to the unconverted oil. By letting the oil get close to the magma, some of the heat is being lost to the big pool of oil (including oil that will never get converted). If you instead dribble in tiny amounts of oil at a time, you don't run into this problem.
You're right, I tried it and it was better at transforming crude oil into petroleum then natural gas. I got squares with hundreds of kilograms of natural gas pressure.
  #184  
Old 07-10-2018, 07:05 PM
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You guys have convinced me to buy it. I started playing last night. Holy shit!
  #185  
Old 07-10-2018, 07:18 PM
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You guys have convinced me to buy it. I started playing last night. Holy shit!
Yes, it's a marvel of independent game-making. I spent a shameful number of hours playing Kerbal Space Program and I can see the same thing happening with ONI.

What do you most like about it?

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 07-10-2018 at 07:19 PM.
  #186  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:28 PM
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Yet again, in solving one problem I've introduced another.

I revamped my oxygen and hydrogen generation system and in the process switched water sources to a steam geyser. Great! Free water and it doesn't mix with my main cistern and kill my crops with heat.

I had it going for a few cycles... and noticed my dupes getting sick. I thought it was because they were exploring some swamp regions without suits, but that wasn't it, and vitamins were only barely helping.

Turns out that my geyser is a massive stew of infection. Some water tiles had germ counts >750,000,000! And the germs were spreading throughout my complex. Oxygen kills them but not at a high enough rate.

I went back to an older save and switched water supplies but it would be nice to use this water source. Not sure how to deal with it, though. Maybe if I pumped the oxygen through a long, twisting chamber before introducing it to my complex would give it enough time for the germs to die--not sure.
  #187  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Yet again, in solving one problem I've introduced another.

I revamped my oxygen and hydrogen generation system and in the process switched water sources to a steam geyser. Great! Free water and it doesn't mix with my main cistern and kill my crops with heat.

I had it going for a few cycles... and noticed my dupes getting sick. I thought it was because they were exploring some swamp regions without suits, but that wasn't it, and vitamins were only barely helping.

Turns out that my geyser is a massive stew of infection. Some water tiles had germ counts >750,000,000! And the germs were spreading throughout my complex. Oxygen kills them but not at a high enough rate.

I went back to an older save and switched water supplies but it would be nice to use this water source. Not sure how to deal with it, though. Maybe if I pumped the oxygen through a long, twisting chamber before introducing it to my complex would give it enough time for the germs to die--not sure.
That is a really good warning. I've got a hot steam geyser that I'm pretty sure is too hot to allow germs (the chamber spends most of its time in the 70-80C range), but I also have a massive reservoir from a cool steam geyser that I did nothing for except build the reservoir under it. It's been cooling for about 30 cycles now and is going to erupt again before too long, and I've been trying to figure out what to do with it; I need to investigate it for germs, I guess.
  #188  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:59 PM
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I've got a hot steam geyser that I'm pretty sure is too hot to allow germs (the chamber spends most of its time in the 70-80C range)
Mine is 70-80 C as well. Doesn't kill Slimelung germs--it actually seems to be a perfect environment. I think that cold may kill it, but I haven't tested this yet. Maybe I can repurpose one of my nullifiers.
  #189  
Old 07-10-2018, 09:03 PM
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I'm thinking a water-oxygen drip system might do the trick. Have a gravity-fed "maze" filled with lots of oxygen, and drip water in from the top. It should have the germs die by the time it gets to the bottom. I have noticed that thin pools of water dissipate their germs fairly quickly if there is oxygen present.
  #190  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:13 PM
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Mine is 70-80 C as well. Doesn't kill Slimelung germs--it actually seems to be a perfect environment. I think that cold may kill it, but I haven't tested this yet. Maybe I can repurpose one of my nullifiers.
Just checked my pool, and it's sterile. May have something to do with surrounding walls--no slime touches the water.
  #191  
Old 07-10-2018, 11:21 PM
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Mine's made with building tiles, though it's possible I used contaminated material. The surrounding gas is somewhat polluted, though I wouldn't think it would cause this level of contamination. Maybe it's the steam vent itself--my other one isn't contaminated nearly to this level.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:14 AM
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If a liquid pump is halted because the pipe it feeds is filled, does it still consume power? There are no sensors that I can find that will detect if a pipe is full to shut it off. Or do they only draw power when actually running?

Same question for things like manual airlocks I guess. I probably should know this by now.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 07-11-2018 at 02:15 AM.
  #193  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:35 AM
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What's the trick to making more water? I'm at Cycle 40 with 15 Dupes and it looks like I'll be out of water soon. Is there something in the more advanced research areas that will produce more?
  #194  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:42 AM
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Look for a cool steam vent somewhere on the map. I'm not sure if every map has it, but I think I've read that all maps have at least certain things in common and that may be one of them. It erupts like a geyser periodically creating new water.

My problem has been power generation. I picked all the coal off the map. I have 3 electrolyzers going, but they don't feed a hydrogen generator consistently. Should I scale up my electrolyzer operation?

I have all the oil I could need, but with the manual oil refinery I just can't get it to work. People go down there and twist the crank a few times and come back. Is that the correct behavior? Or is there a way to make them operate it for longer? If I could get them to operate it longer, I could build up a petroleum reserve and generate a reasonable amount of power that way, as well as plastic.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 07-11-2018 at 03:45 AM.
  #195  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:07 AM
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If a liquid pump is halted because the pipe it feeds is filled, does it still consume power? There are no sensors that I can find that will detect if a pipe is full to shut it off. Or do they only draw power when actually running?
Pumps only use power when running. However, I believe that they use the same amount of power regardless of how much they're pumping. Hence, it can be useful to use automation to set high and low water marks--turn on the pump when it hits the high value and off when it hits the low. You can use a memory toggle and two sensors for this. Alternatively, you can use a filter gate to ensure you spend some amount of time in standby.

For detecting if a pipe contains something, use the element sensor under "plumbing". You'll have to set it to a specific element but besides that it works fine.

Mechanized airlocks only draw power when open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
I have all the oil I could need, but with the manual oil refinery I just can't get it to work. People go down there and twist the crank a few times and come back. Is that the correct behavior?
Make sure you have a dedicated oil pump for the input (no branching or sharing of the pump) and a reservoir for the output, or at least a long pipe going to where you want it to. If either input or output are blocked, the dupe will stop working. Also make sure you have enough power to run the refinery.

I'd recommend running the oil over hot rocks to generate natural gas, and burn that instead.
  #196  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Yet again, in solving one problem I've introduced another.

I revamped my oxygen and hydrogen generation system and in the process switched water sources to a steam geyser. Great! Free water and it doesn't mix with my main cistern and kill my crops with heat.

I had it going for a few cycles... and noticed my dupes getting sick. I thought it was because they were exploring some swamp regions without suits, but that wasn't it, and vitamins were only barely helping.

Turns out that my geyser is a massive stew of infection. Some water tiles had germ counts >750,000,000! And the germs were spreading throughout my complex. Oxygen kills them but not at a high enough rate.

I went back to an older save and switched water supplies but it would be nice to use this water source. Not sure how to deal with it, though. Maybe if I pumped the oxygen through a long, twisting chamber before introducing it to my complex would give it enough time for the germs to die--not sure.

Run it through a small reservoir with a liquid tepidizer?

A more elaborate but effective system could involve pumping the water down to a small boiler near magma, have it turn into steam then either pumped directly to your base or used in a steam turbine before being sent to your base.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
My problem has been power generation. I picked all the coal off the map. I have 3 electrolyzers going, but they don't feed a hydrogen generator consistently. Should I scale up my electrolyzer operation?

I have all the oil I could need, but with the manual oil refinery I just can't get it to work. People go down there and twist the crank a few times and come back. Is that the correct behavior? Or is there a way to make them operate it for longer? If I could get them to operate it longer, I could build up a petroleum reserve and generate a reasonable amount of power that way, as well as plastic.
I also have the issue of the Dupe operating the oil refinery for a few seconds then stopping. I've taken to putting the Dupe in an exosuit and locking him inside the oil refinery room.

As for power generation, once you get to the surface, you can use solar panels. Also look at Stranglove and I's discussion of turning crude oil into natural gas from post #164 onward.

Perhaps polluted water + magma boiler + steam turbine could also solve 2 problems at the same time.
  #197  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:11 AM
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What's the trick to making more water? I'm at Cycle 40 with 15 Dupes
Quick tip: that's probably too many. Maybe you'll pull it off, but you're going to have to grow very quickly to exploit new biomes before running out of resources in the starter biome. You don't have to take every new dupe request. I'm at cycle 700+ and I stopped at 12 dupes.
  #198  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:25 AM
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I found the Cool Steam Vent! Also, during my panic dig, I found a cool break room with a DNA bio lock. That was unexpected.
  #199  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:47 AM
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Quick tip: that's probably too many. Maybe you'll pull it off, but you're going to have to grow very quickly to exploit new biomes before running out of resources in the starter biome. You don't have to take every new dupe request. I'm at cycle 700+ and I stopped at 12 dupes.
Second this. I had base after base after base fall apart, until I started rejecting most dupes.

My pace:
-Accept a fourth dupe from the first offering, unless they're all terrible (like all have loud sleeper, mouthbreather, or bottomless stomach).
-Accept a fifth one around cycle 40 or 50, once there's a decent farm going and you've got some pipes up.
-After that, accept a dupe about every 10 cycles or so, holding out for really good ones (+5 to a skill, plus likes that skill, plus no really bad traits, is super, but you don't need to hold out for that good). If there's currently a crisis, don't take a new one until the crisis is resolved.
-Once you have 10 dupes, get REALLY picky. I'm at cycle 330 or so and have 12.
  #200  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:43 AM
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I am pumping clean oxygen into my exosuit dock, but it keeps taking wrong element damage. Anybody know what the deal is?
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