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Old 07-25-2019, 06:57 PM
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Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (SPOILER THREAD)


No spoilers until the second post!
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
Voice of God when it's really only
thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:11 PM
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OK. Spoilers from here on out.
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.
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The only thing QT exploits is our knowledge of what happens on Cielo Drive on that night in August. The movie is very funny for two hours, but you always have that sense of dread about what is coming. And then of course he totally subverts our expectations.

Not only do Sharon Tate et al survive, but the Manson gang don’t even make it to her house! Nope, they pick the house next door owned by Rick Dalton (Leo) after he comes outside and yells at them about their loud muffler. They back up and decide to switch targets...but unbeknownst to them, Rick’s stunt double, Cliff Booth (Brad) has just entered the house after walking his (awesome) dog, Brandy. Things go very, very badly for the three would-be killers in a violent and hilarious fashion. A lot of stuff pays off in this final scene, and the audience I saw it with loved it.

There is some brutal violence against women and I can see QT getting some flack over it, but the fact is that it really was two women and one guy who were intent on killing a bunch of people that night - QT is just giving us the revenge we want.

What did everyone else think?
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
Voice of God when it's really only
thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?

Last edited by Stephe96; 07-25-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:52 PM
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Another thought: is there any significance to Kurt Russell (I think it was him) doing the narration towards the end?
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
Voice of God when it's really only
thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:00 PM
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Thanks.

I think I'll pass.

Why someone would think this was a movie to make, I don't know. QT thinks he has to keep topping himself, I guess.

I continue to feel the movie is disrespectful to the dead people, because in real life, they are still dead, and QT's little revenge fantasy is in poor taste. And I LIKED IBs. But there's a difference between killing someone who IRL is really dead, and not killing someone that is.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 07-25-2019 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:06 PM
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Awesome thread! Now I don't have to see this movie ever and I still know the ending! Thanks, Stephe96; I didn't even have to wait for Wikipedia to get clearance to post the plot with this one!

ETA:
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
And I LIKED IBs.
Tarantino lost me forever with IBs. Specifically, when I heard David Bowie's Cat People. I turned the movie off, popped the BR out and sold it the next morning. I read about the ending on Wikipedia, tho.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 07-25-2019 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:10 PM
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Awesome thread! Now I don't have to see this movie ever and I still know the ending! Thanks, Stephe96; I didn't even have to wait for Wikipedia to get clearance to post the plot with this one!
Are you being sarcastic? I was asked to post a spoiler thread and I think I gave everyone fair warning...
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:13 PM
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No. I figured the ETA would make that clear.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:46 PM
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I have been a huge Tarantino fan since PF, have caught all of his films since on opening night, but surprisingly only loved 2 of them as I was walking out of the theater (KB1, PF)... because, like much of Monty Python, much of the experience is in the after, the discussions, the quotes, the things you notice a second time.

My daughter and I were driving home tonight and our conversation was as such...

:chuckle:

(grins) "What, Dad?"

(still chuckling) "When Brad Pitt snapped his fingers."

"That was awesome. I liked how she wanted to watch herself in the movie."

"Shit, I would too, wouldn't you?"

... nods ...

"Was it one of the Manson girls who sold him that cigarette?"

"I don't know. We'll have to see it again - Tarantino showed him buying it twice, which hints at a stronger connection than usual. He does stuff like that."

"That was a weird movie."

"It was a weird movie. All his movies are weird. They cut in time. They change styles in a flash. There are always homages and references. Sophia, I think there was a time when we went from the movie into a documentary then into a TV show, watched that for a minute or so, then pulled back out into the documentary, finished that, and then returned to our movie. I mean, who the fuck does that?

"But you never, ever, ever lose track of what's going on."

"Hey, yeah! I noticed that, Dad! There was this long sequence that was Leo only and then a couple of quick shots of Bruce Lee appeared. I just started wondering what was going on with Brad Pitt when the film cut to his story.

... pauses...

"... Damn, that's good movie making."

"Did you notice just how much of the film was spent driving?"

"... Yeah. Now that you mention it..."

"Very Los Angeles, 1969. You drove everywhere and a good chunk of your life was in the car. The feel of living in that city, at that time, was very immersive."

"Mind if I play my music?"

"Sure, Sophia," disconnecting my phone from the bluetooth.

"Look, there's a OUaTiH playlist on Spotify!"

... one of the songs starts playing, Sophia starts laughing...

"That was when the..."

... and, continuing, we drove home.

It was awesome, the 3rd QT movie I loved coming out of the theater, and for far fuller, richer reasons than the first two could ever be.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:09 AM
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Snowboarder Bo, I know that it's difficult to convey tone online, but you might want to work on it a bit more. I was this close to warning you for threadshitting, and I hardly ever warn for threadshitting.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
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(still chuckling) "When Brad Pitt snapped his fingers."

"Was it one of the Manson girls who sold him that cigarette?"
By “snapped his fingers,” you mean the part when Brad made the clicking noise with his mouth? That WAS awesome.

I was wondering who sold him the cigarette; those Manson girls all kind of looked the same, but I guess it could’ve been a random hippie. QT could’ve had Pussy Cat sell him the cigarette during their drive if he wanted to make that part clearer.
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
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thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:37 AM
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Yeah, that was it.

It was funny... we discussed this as well, how the long extended scene where Pitt is feeding his dog originally seems to exist to drive the point that Brad doesn't have much of a life. It isn't until much, much later in the movie that you realize the scene exists also to show you how disciplined the dog is, and the closeness of their bond.

And the choice of breed is also a tip-off.
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:54 PM
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It was great in QT fashion.

It was great seeing Robin from Stranger Things 3 (Maya Thurman Hawke, also Uma Thurman's daughter) as the Manson girl that comes to her senses and steals Tex's car and hightails it out of there before the killing begins.
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:47 PM
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It was great in QT fashion.

It was great seeing Robin from Stranger Things 3 (Maya Thurman Hawke, also Uma Thurman's daughter) as the Manson girl that comes to her senses and steals Tex's car and hightails it out of there before the killing begins.
Did that really happen? Did one of killers chicken out? Or did QT let her leave because she didn’t actually participate in the murders - so killing her would have been (ahem) gratuitous?

Answered my own question: Kabasian didn’t flee; she waited by the gate as a lookout.
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thunder? Or to hear only thunder
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:06 PM
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Did that really happen? Did one of killers chicken out? Or did QT let her leave because she didn’t actually participate in the murders - so killing her would have been (ahem) gratuitous?

Answered my own question: Kabasian didn’t flee; she waited by the gate as a lookout.
*Kasabian, rather.
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thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:14 PM
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Did that really happen? Did one of killers chicken out? Or did QT let her leave because she didn’t actually participate in the murders - so killing her would have been (ahem) gratuitous?

Answered my own question: Kabasian didn’t flee; she waited by the gate as a lookout.
She also ended up a star witness for the prosecution in the trial. I haven't yet seen the movie, but 'running away' is somewhat consistent with her later actions regarding the crime.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:17 PM
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Txt from Sophia:

"Holy God, Dad, those Manson women were *vicious*! I thought the violence was perhaps a bit too much, but now I know what they did to that poor baby... it wasn't violent enough!"
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:20 PM
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Txt from Sophia:

"Holy God, Dad, those Manson women were *vicious*! I thought the violence was perhaps a bit too much, but now I know what they did to that poor baby... it wasn't violent enough!"
Exactly. QT isn’t relishing in violence against women, just extreme violence against THESE women. They got off easy in this movie compared to what they did in real life.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:57 AM
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One thing the movie did not get right... and I'm not too sure how it could have been fixed... is the complete lack of smog. Check out the link below for a picture comparing LA air quality in 1968 and 2005.

http://geoprojectgrp7.blogspot.com/2...ation.html?m=1
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:40 PM
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Just got back. 2 HUGE thumbs up from my wife and me. Loved DiCap/Pitt. Margot is GORGEOUS.

Gotta get my mean dog some of that rat flavor dog food!

Was laughing through the final scene until Cliff took the one girl over to the mantelpiece. Damn - that's gonna leave a mark!

LOVED the pooch!

Really liked the way they cut the old movies/TV shows. And don't leave before the credits...
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:21 PM
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One thing the movie did not get right... and I'm not too sure how it could have been fixed... is the complete lack of smog. Check out the link below for a picture comparing LA air quality in 1968 and 2005.

http://geoprojectgrp7.blogspot.com/2...ation.html?m=1
There a jokey smog alert playing on a car radio at one point, wasn’t there?
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:55 PM
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I didn't even recognize Luke Perry as Wayne Maunder. I had to look up which character he played. Loved the way they spliced Leo into The Great Escape. I wonder why, if they used real people's names, and real scenes from real movies, they fudged the "Lancer" pilot.

Kind of irritating that they didn't bother to include Steven Parent. That's disrespectful.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:59 PM
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Kind of irritating that they didn't bother to include Steven Parent. That's disrespectful.
Agreed. He didn’t exist in this timeline, probably because he was such a random part of the encounter (Parent had been visiting the caretaker’s house trying to sell him a radio. It was just coincidence that he would be driving out while the killers were driving in).

Also, did they include Squeaky as one of the murderers (the redhead)? She wasn’t one of the people who went to Tate’s house.

In this alternate universe, I also wonder what became of the rest of the Manson clan, who in our world went on to commit another horrific murder the next night. In “Once Upon a Time”, Manson is still plotting his war.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:08 PM
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I think that the police descended on Spahn ranch pretty quickly, maybe even before the Family had an idea something was wrong. Pitt was still lucid, after all.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:16 PM
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Agreed. He didn’t exist in this timeline, probably because he was such a random part of the encounter (Parent had been visiting the caretaker’s house trying to sell him a radio. It was just coincidence that he would be driving out while the killers were driving in).

Also, did they include Squeaky as one of the murderers (the redhead)? She wasn’t one of the people who went to Tate’s house.

In this alternate universe, I also wonder what became of the rest of the Manson clan, who in our world went on to commit another horrific murder the next night. In “Once Upon a Time”, Manson is still plotting his war.
Was that Squeaky in the car? It didn’t look like her.

Also, in this timeline the Labiancas apparently would survive.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:43 PM
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The movie should have had Steve McQueen at the Tate house that night, since he nearly went in real life.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:00 PM
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Really enjoyed it. Probably my favorite Tarantino film. It was a hoot seeing Olyphant as the star of the western and man, did Bruce Lee put a dent in that car or what?
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:26 PM
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The movie should have had Steve McQueen at the Tate house that night, since he nearly went in real life.
Also Quincy Jones.
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:01 AM
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Had high hopes. The first 2/3rds were OK, and the final scenes were exactly what I feared they would be - alternate history with cartoon violence.

He is better than this.

Or maybe he is not. He is so talented and he keeps making the same movie over and over.

The "homage" to classic movies/TV shows I found uninteresting. It was OK. There was none of the great dialog we've come to expect -except for the 8 year old "method actor"- loved that.

We got 2 scenes of Brad driving around with "cool" music of the era playing.

I had hopes with this movie and the Manson murders, a significient event in our history. It changed the way people felt about being secure in their homes. Much like In Cold Blood.

But in his world, it never happened. Some stupid alternate universe where the good guys slaughter the bad guys.

Tarantino is still a teenager. I would like to see an adult flim from him.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:28 AM
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So...does Rick Walton get a role in Chinatown?
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:34 AM
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*Dalton, rather
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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I actually enjoyed it. Despite its length, I was never bored. It's exactly what Tarantino is good at, a pastiche of nostalgia and character moments and a convoluted plot. He's never been good at story or theme.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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He is better than this.

Or maybe he is not.
I'm not convinced. Is QT the brilliant filmmaker of Pulp Fiction who tried new things and came ups with some duds (Hateful8)? Or is he a hack director of crap ass films like Hateful8 who got lucky once or twice despite his innate failings (Pulp Fiction)?

I tend to think he's more M. Night Shyamalan than Steven Spielberg.

Some people obviously like his films, so enjoy away. But thanks for these threads, so I know to avoid the film. I wish someone had told me about H8 before I wasted my time.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:08 AM
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I would like to see an adult flim from him.
Remake of Deep Throat, with Samuel Jackson quoting old testament scripture?
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:11 AM
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Wolfie's Tooth Rat and Racoon flavor!
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:14 AM
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Coming out of the theater, my wife said, "So if you didn't know about Charlie Manson, you wouldn't have any idea what that was about."

I was born in 60, but don't recall any awareness of the murders when they occurred. Read Helter Skelter as a young adult, was aware of Squeaky's attempt on Ford, and Manson's periodic parole reviews...

But several of the posts in this thread suggest a quite detailed familiarity with the history - and of movie/TV history, that I wonder if the average viewer shares.

The movie has a ridiculously huge credited cast. I tired looking up who played who, but was put off when I realized I didn't know most of the characters' names. Wayne Maunder? Kasabian?

I don't think Squeaky was in the final scene. I thought Squeaky was the character running things in Spahn's house. Unless she frizzed her hair, the redhead in the car looked different.

And why did they go into Dalton's house instead of Tate's as Charlie told them? Just because Dalton yelled at them?

The movie encouraged me to read up some more about the clan, but I chose to pretty much just experience this movie, rather than view it as a historical research exercise.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:26 AM
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I don't think Squeaky was in the final scene. I thought Squeaky was the character running things in Spahn's house. Unless she frizzed her hair, the redhead in the car looked different.
Yes it was her. Cliff recognized her and mentioned her as the redhead that was with George.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:52 AM
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I'm pretty sure that the four family members at the end were Tex (played by Austin Butler), Susan Atkins (Mikey Madison), Patricia Krenwinkel (Madisen Beaty), and Linda Kasabian (Maya Hawke), just like in real life.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:33 PM
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Coming out of the theater, my wife said, "So if you didn't know about Charlie Manson, you wouldn't have any idea what that was about."

I was born in 60, but don't recall any awareness of the murders when they occurred. Read Helter Skelter as a young adult, was aware of Squeaky's attempt on Ford, and Manson's periodic parole reviews...

But several of the posts in this thread suggest a quite detailed familiarity with the history - and of movie/TV history, that I wonder if the average viewer shares.

The movie has a ridiculously huge credited cast. I tired looking up who played who, but was put off when I realized I didn't know most of the characters' names. Wayne Maunder? Kasabian?

I don't think Squeaky was in the final scene. I thought Squeaky was the character running things in Spahn's house. Unless she frizzed her hair, the redhead in the car looked different.

And why did they go into Dalton's house instead of Tate's as Charlie told them? Just because Dalton yelled at them?

The movie encouraged me to read up some more about the clan, but I chose to pretty much just experience this movie, rather than view it as a historical research exercise.
I thought this too. Younger viewers who are only vaguely aware of Manson will probably not get why the ending is such a big deal. If you don’t appreciate the savagery the Family visited upon Sharon Tate et al., you’ll probably think their comeuppance in the movie is way too violent. I’m guessing the movie won’t really work for anyone under, say, 40 or 50.
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
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when it's really the Voice of God?
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:38 PM
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Well, it worked for my 17yo daughter, but admittedly, she wants to get into the industry and likes the late-60s/early-70s period.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:43 PM
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One thing I hadn’t thought of that I just heard on a podcast is the theory that the whole Cliff-killed-his-wife backstory was all just part of his daydream when he was fixing the TV antenna and that might not have “actually” happened.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:54 PM
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One thing I hadn’t thought of that I just heard on a podcast is the theory that the whole Cliff-killed-his-wife backstory was all just part of his daydream when he was fixing the TV antenna and that might not have “actually” happened.
I was reminded of the Robert Wagner/Natalie Wood situation - Cliff’s wife apparently died while they were out on a boat, and there are rumors in the industry that it may not have been accidental. I guess only Cliff knows what happened, but the rumors are enough to keep some people from working with him.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:09 PM
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Yes it was her. Cliff recognized her and mentioned her as the redhead that was with George.
Yeah - I guess I remembered that. But the damn movie was so long and full, I musta gotten the layers all tangled up. Didn't think the actor looked like Dakota Fanning. And IRL, it shoulda been Krenwinkel.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:20 PM
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Yes it was her. Cliff recognized her and mentioned her as the redhead that was with George.
No, that's not what he said. He recognized her from the ranch, not as being the woman with George.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:20 PM
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Yeah - I guess I remembered that. But the damn movie was so long and full, I musta gotten the layers all tangled up. Didn't think the actor looked like Dakota Fanning. And IRL, it shoulda been Krenwinkel.
I don’t think that was Dakota Fanning in the car. Remember also, Cliff was tripping his brains out. He recognized someone from the ranch, but it probably wasn’t Squeaky.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:22 PM
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I was reminded of the Robert Wagner/Natalie Wood situation - Cliff’s wife apparently died while they were out on a boat, and there are rumors in the industry that it may not have been accidental. I guess only Cliff knows what happened, but the rumors are enough to keep some people from working with him.
There was also a throwaway line about Cliff's wife's sister being named Natalie.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:36 PM
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A thought just occurred to me: with Yesterday and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood , we’ve had two movies this summer where the Manson murders never occurred.
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
Voice of God when it's really only
thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
  #47  
Old 07-28-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephe96 View Post
I was reminded of the Robert Wagner/Natalie Wood situation - Cliff’s wife apparently died while they were out on a boat, and there are rumors in the industry that it may not have been accidental. I guess only Cliff knows what happened, but the rumors are enough to keep some people from working with him.
The point is that the incident with his wife is referenced at all only during the fantasy sequence. So it’s possible that he was never suspected of murder, or that his wife even died on a boat.
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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The point is that the incident with his wife is referenced at all only during the fantasy sequence. So it’s possible that he was never suspected of murder, or that his wife even died on a boat.
Well, based on the comments made by the Kurt Russell character and his wife, there are some people who believe Cliff killed his wife. Leo’s character clearly doesn’t believe the rumor, but the rumor obviously exists. (And was all this mentioned in a fantasy sequence, or a flashback? I thought it was the latter.)
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Which is crazier? To the hear the
Voice of God when it's really only
thunder? Or to hear only thunder
when it's really the Voice of God?
  #49  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephe96 View Post
Well, based on the comments made by the Kurt Russell character and his wife, there are some people who believe Cliff killed his wife.
We only ever see them say that in the fantasy sequence.

Quote:
And was all this mentioned in a fantasy sequence, or a flashback? I thought it was the latter.)
I’m pretty sure it’s not a flashback. There is a flashback to his wife but I think it’s in the daydream too.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 07-28-2019 at 02:04 PM.
  #50  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
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We only ever see them say that in the fantasy sequence.



I’m pretty sure it’s not a flashback. There is a flashback to his wife but I think it’s in the daydream too.
I guess I got the chronology all messed up.

First, Cliff drives Rick to the set of the western, where Rick tells Cliff he has no chance of being cast, because of some guy from Green Hornet is in charge of the casting, so Cliff goes home to fix the antenna.
-Cliff parkours up to the roof and removes his shirt, making women swoon in theaters worldwide.
-Cliff starts to daydream about being on the set of the Green Hornet. But this can't all be Cliff's daydream, because some of it is from Rick's POV, which Cliff couldn't know, right? Isn't there a scene where Rick is persuading the guy to let Cliff wardrobe up, when the guy refers to his wife thinking Cliff is a wife murderer?
-Then we see Cliff and Bruce fight, and Cliff gets thrown off the set.

But for some reason, I thought scenes from Rick on the Western set were interspersed in there, before we saw Cliff back on the roof again. Did it go right from Rick persuading the guy to let Cliff dress, to showing Bruce Lee mouthing off backstage with Cliff sitting on a trailer drinking a 1/2 pint of milk? I thought Rick's scenes with the 8-yr-old method actOR was right in there...

I tend not to like to watch movies over and over in order to pick up whatever twist and reference there might be. So I pretty much just let this one wash over me - and enjoyed it in that manner.
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