Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:36 PM
Small Clanger is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 2,590
I may have misjudged what this "series" is going to be, (that is, nothing to do with the book 'Night Watch')

C.S.I. - Ankh Morpork
  #152  
Old 09-16-2019, 01:19 PM
silenus's Avatar
silenus is online now
Isaiah 1:15/Screw the NRA
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 51,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Bit early for the "Sky is Falling" song-and-dance.
The sky isn't falling. This is much more important.
  #153  
Old 09-16-2019, 01:38 PM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 24,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
The sky isn't falling. This is much more important.
Personal isn't the same as important.
  #154  
Old 09-16-2019, 02:09 PM
typoink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Clanger View Post
I may have misjudged what this "series" is going to be, (that is, nothing to do with the book 'Night Watch')
It's kind of an odd duck, because it's obviously drawing some elements from the book, but I think it's going to be taking a few elements from Night Watch (notably Carcer and the idea of a heavily corrupt watch) and mix in elements from the later watch books.
  #155  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:15 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 85,073
Mr. Dibble, "here" is, IIRC, South Africa?
  #156  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:24 PM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Mr. Dibble, "here" is, IIRC, South Africa?
Yes - specifically, Cape Town (like parts of Good Omens and the last season of Doctor Who).

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-16-2019 at 03:26 PM.
  #157  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:22 PM
Slow Moving Vehicle's Avatar
Slow Moving Vehicle is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 4,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by typoink View Post
Or that they thought something that worked well in the books might be harder to translate to the screen. Or that they were working with constraints from above to make the show "younger" or "sexier" or "prettier" and hope to accomplish the "don't judge a book by its cover" themes from different directions.

As a larger person myself, I definitely am disappointed they're negating that aspect of Sybil and losing the opportunity to tell that particular unique story.

But I don't think that inherently means the story they're telling has to be bad, it just means they're telling a very different story. I'm willing to let them succeed or fail on their own terms and judge the quality of the show on its own merits.
I agree. I'm ... hesitant... about the casting for Sybil. But if the actress can pull it off, I'll buy her not being older, or plus sized, or jolly hockey sticks.

However, as described, seriesCarcer is just wrong. "Vengeance-seeking"? "Wronged"? "Wounded"? Have the showrunners actually read the book? Carcer is not conflicted in the least. Like Euron Greyjoy of Game of Thrones, he's an vicious sociopath who has no illusions about himself; he's an evil bastard who knows he's a bastard, who embraces and revels and glories in his bastardry.

It's not like the Ankh-Morpork novels don't have well-intentioned extremist villains, acting in pursuit of what they think is a higher goal - Edward d'Eath and Doctor Cruces from Men At Arms, the Low King's Ideas-Taster Dee from The Fifth Elephant, Dragon King of Arms from Feet Of Clay, even Findthee Swing, of Night Watch itself.

But Carcer? No, just no.
__________________
“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.”
― Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, Good Omens
  #158  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:27 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by typoink View Post
As a larger person myself, I definitely am disappointed they're negating that aspect of Sybil and losing the opportunity to tell that particular unique story.

But I don't think that inherently means the story they're telling has to be bad, it just means they're telling a very different story. I'm willing to let them succeed or fail on their own terms and judge the quality of the show on its own merits.
It does sound odd. But we shall see.
  #159  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:09 PM
typoink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Moving Vehicle View Post
But Carcer? No, just no.
My guess is that we'll see one of two things:

1. The character in the show will be closer to the books than it sounds, and that description is more "how he justifies himself" than reality -- that IS a major component in the books. He always portrays himself as a victim and I think there's some ambiguity to what degree he believes it (or at least wants/hopes/expects to be believed).


or 2. It's effectively a new character but they kept the name because, hey, it's a good name for a villain. I wouldn't be shocked if they went this route, because I honestly wonder if Carcer-from-the-book would actually work well in a show. He's kinda one-dimensional and so damn dark that I think it could make the balance of adventure and humor that the show needs tricky. Carcer worked great as an antagonist in the sixth Watch novel, but I'm not sure he would have worked as well in the first.

This one actually gives me less pause than Sybil because Carcer isn't actually an interesting character in his own right; he's just an AMAZINGLY powerful foil for Vimes in Night Watch because he undermines everything Vimes holds dear and becomes such a menacing, cancerous presence.
  #160  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:08 PM
scr4 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,073
Does it say anywhere that the TV series is based on Night Watch, the novel? The announcements just say the series is inspired by Pratchett's City Watch series. We know Carcer is a character in the series, but suspect his role and the storyline will bear little resemblance to what's in the novel Night Watch.
  #161  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:33 PM
typoink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
Does it say anywhere that the TV series is based on Night Watch, the novel? The announcements just say the series is inspired by Pratchett's City Watch series. We know Carcer is a character in the series, but suspect his role and the storyline will bear little resemblance to what's in the novel Night Watch.
Other than Carcer and the name, there's been no suggestion of a connection to the book. Pretty sure they're just using the name because it literally is about the night watch and the book has a good reputation.

I'm guessing the first season will have a lot more in common with Guards! Guards! but with Carcer as an antagonist instead of a dragon. If I was really going to take a stab in the dark, I'd further guess that Carcer is going to be shown becoming the ringleader of a particularly heinous group of criminals (possibly including corrupt watchmen). Vimes and crew will realize that the city's tolerance for "regulated" crime has gone too far and they have to actually do the whole "serve and protect" thing.
  #162  
Old 09-18-2019, 06:40 PM
GuanoLad's Avatar
GuanoLad is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Where the wild roses grow
Posts: 24,921
The original team to make this is not involved anymore. Not even Rhianna has any input in this version. It's basically been taken out of their hands and given to a whole new group, so whatever we thought it might have been, it's gone through a couple of evolutionary changes. I am worried it might be awful, but more likely it will be good in a not-quite-the-books way like the recent Dirk Gently series was. Which may or may not annoy me.
  #163  
Old 09-19-2019, 01:00 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Just a note - the TV series is currently called The Watch, not Night Watch.
  #164  
Old 09-19-2019, 12:50 PM
typoink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
The original team to make this is not involved anymore. Not even Rhianna has any input in this version.
Do you have a source for this? Narrativia is still listed as a production, and I believe Rhianna is still the co-director of Narrativia.

Even if she's not directly hands-on or writing, it seems like she's still at least connected to the production.
  #165  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:33 PM
GuanoLad's Avatar
GuanoLad is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Where the wild roses grow
Posts: 24,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by typoink View Post
Do you have a source for this?
Here is a short Twitter thread where she explains a bit.
  #166  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:21 PM
Peter Morris's Avatar
Peter Morris is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The far canal
Posts: 12,698
A thought about casting Sybil.

In the novel, Vimes is transported back in time, where he briefly meets a younger version of his wife. Only a couple of paragraphs, IIRC. Perhaps the series is going to expand the role of young Sybil. So they've hired a young actress. And with makeup she can also play the older, larger Sybil.
  #167  
Old 09-20-2019, 02:13 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
A thought about casting Sybil.

In the novel, Vimes is transported back in time, where he briefly meets a younger version of his wife. Only a couple of paragraphs, IIRC. Perhaps the series is going to expand the role of young Sybil. So they've hired a young actress. And with makeup she can also play the older, larger Sybil.
That doesn't appear to be the case based off the pocket description on Narrativia's page.

They're pretty clear about that "inspired by" - for instance, they have Angua training Carrot not the other way around.

So people who want a series that's basically the books in film form should steel themselves. That's not what this apparently is. It's Disc Elseworlds.

Which I, personally, don't mind. To mix fandoms - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is a right good idea.

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-20-2019 at 02:13 AM.
  #168  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:55 AM
Darren Garrison's Avatar
Darren Garrison is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 11,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
Here is a short Twitter thread where she explains a bit.
She doesn't sound thrilled with the direction things are taking.
  #169  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:57 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Shoulda kept the rights, then.
  #170  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:58 AM
Darren Garrison's Avatar
Darren Garrison is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 11,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
So people who want a series that's basically the books in film form should steel themselves. That's not what this apparently is. It's Disc Elseworlds.

Which I, personally, don't mind. To mix fandoms - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is a right good idea.
As for myself, I'd prefer the new writers (assuming the show goes it the direction it seemes to be) receive the same treatment as Terry's old hard drives.
  #171  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:30 PM
silenus's Avatar
silenus is online now
Isaiah 1:15/Screw the NRA
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 51,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post

So people who want a series that's basically the books in film form should steel themselves. That's not what this apparently is. It's Disc Elseworlds.

Which I, personally, don't mind. To mix fandoms - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is a right good idea.
If that is the way they market it, I'm fine-ish with it. But if they put Pterry's name anywhere on it except as an "Inspired by the vastly superior to our dreck writings of" then may they rot in Hell.
  #172  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:03 PM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
As for myself, I'd prefer the new writers (assuming the show goes it the direction it seemes to be) receive the same treatment as Terry's old hard drives.
Then he and his estate should have done a Watterson.

But let's be honest here - much as I love Pterry, he never was above merchandising the everliving fuck out of the Disc. Any frigging knickknack CMOT Briggs and the gang could imagine.

Too late to be precious about your IP after you've sold it to the highest bidder.
  #173  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:06 PM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
If that is the way they market it, I'm fine-ish with it. But if they put Pterry's name anywhere on it except as an "Inspired by the vastly superior to our dreck writings of" then may they rot in Hell.
I somehow doubt the man who started with Niven and Leiber pastiches would be quite as judgmental about this as (some of) his fans.
  #174  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:46 PM
silenus's Avatar
silenus is online now
Isaiah 1:15/Screw the NRA
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 51,639
Of course he wasn't. Pterry was a much better person than I am. He was semi-noble in outlook - I'm a petty, vindictive jerk.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017