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  #301  
Old 03-23-2012, 09:53 AM
Kinthalis is offline
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Ok, so I beat the game last night.

I've been mulling in my head the events of the last 10 minutes of game play and I'm still feeling confused and utterly unsatisfied. But first I'll start with the rest of the game.

The mechanics and the gameplay where, for the most part improvements to the series. Some of the elements of ME1 that made sense where re-introduced, some from ME2 where polished up a bit and it worked, save for a few GUI missteps here and there. The only real draw back to the gameplay mechanics that was consistent, was the whole "let's bind umpteen actions to a SINGLE button" blunder. I can't count the number of times I died PURELY because my Shep couldn't figure out whether I wanted to sprint, take cover, dodge, or open a door. Hint, if I'm getting shot at, opening an ecrypted door for 10 seconds ISN'T what I'm looking to do.

I guess this was a limitation of the gamepads on the consoles, but I'm playing on a PC, god damn it, let me assign some of those actions to ANOTHER key.

Another thing that bothered me was the whole planet scanning, followed up by reaper pac-man. This part of the experience felt woefully unpolished, almost like they were trying to do something with it, ran out of time, and just threw together the disparate remnants of a torn up ME2 galaxy map. It's really not up to snuff with the rest of the experience, IMHO.

In terms of narrative elements and thematic style, the theme of ME3 certainly needed an emphasis on getting things done quickly, I understand that, but I still felt like things were too confined. I tackled my missions and that's it. There was no reason for me to visit or look at any planets/moons/asteroids that didn't ping back something on the scanners. And so the galaxy felt a lot more unanymous to me.

In contrast, I really enjoyed the feeling of wondering the galaxy, exploring, and discovering new things in ME2. I was a space bum in that game, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Sure, the mechanics of exploring could have used some tweaking in that game, but it still felt like a grand adventure in a huge galaxy.

In ME1 and ME2 someone could reference a planet or a system and I knew right away what they were talking about... Oh right, the third planet by the red giant on the outer rim! In ME3, I had no clue, nor any interest in anything outside the main planet missions. It didn't help that journal entires were so damn vague about locations either.

Finally, I truly enjoyed the characters. The old and the few new ones I encountered. Most were well written (the Prothean was a surprise!), interesting, and in the end I felt I had a satisfying relationship with each one fo them, one that took into account our past experiences. Liara, specially, stood out. She and my character truly shared a special friendship, and Bioware got it right. I kind of wish I had romanced her

Another cool addition was the fact that characters felt less static. They could be found in various places on the ship, they interacte with eachother (loved Garrus and Vega's conversation by the messhall), and they had a lot of "throw away" dialogue lines that weren't just "throw away" lines, if you know what I mean. They all added some interesting tidbit to their personalities, or touched on, in a coherent way, on what we just did or where about to do.

The game took me quite a bit to beat, and I missed out on some side quests, mostly due to frustration at trying to locate the mission targets. I was playing on hardcore though, which tends to slow down game progress as fights last a lot longer than even on normal (the final battle on hardcore took me like 20 minutes, and I didn't finish due to dying in a cheap way, I switched to normal for it and I went through it in easily less than 1/2 the time). But ME2 seemed longer to me... even though I enjoyed my time with it more!

OK, so now the ending. I'm still not sure how I feel about. I'm going to read through the spoilers in this thread to see if my feelings mirror other doper's but basically, it went something like this:

SPOILER:

Ghost kid: Hey, I'm ghost kid. Reapers are my idea for your salvation.

ME: So you use synthetics to anhilate us, in order to prevent... synthetics from annihilating us? WTF?

Ghost Kid: That's right, now shut up. Look, that crucible thing isn't a weapon, it's upgrade to my operating system. They've finally added touch controls! but that's not relevant here. What is releveant is that now I see that the reapers might not be the only choice in order annihila... I mean save you organics.

ME: You don't fucking say.

Ghost Kid: Yeah I figure stranding all you organics in this here solar system and condemning many of the rest to a slow death lost in the void of interstellar space might just be a better solution! All you gotta do is decide what to do with the reapers, control them, destroy them, or integrate them with organics to form a new race of cyborgs.

ME: You mean husks.

Ghost Kid: Shut up.

ME: Well, this is stupid. And If I destroy the reapers, the Geth die too? But they're good peoples!

Ghost Kid: Yeah whatever.

ME: Hell, the fact that they've made peace with their creators, with all organics for that matter, and helped us fight the reapers, that should show that there is yet ANOTHER possible solution...

Ghost Kid: Look, you got three choices, and none of them involve me acting in a logical, intelligent manner. So get to it bitch.

ME: WTF??



On reading some of the spoilery comments so far, I'm in total agreement about the Bioware dropping the ball on what the ending should have been about:

SPOILER:


The thematic importance is placed on whether Shep lives or dies, and not on the satisfaction of knowing what he did MATTERED.



It's almost as if Bioware's writers were replaced, and the new ones missed the point entirely.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 03-23-2012 at 09:58 AM.
  #302  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:03 AM
FinnAgain is offline
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Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
It's almost as if Bioware's writers were replaced[...]
... with husks.
  #303  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
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Kinthalis, I played on PC as well, and hated that about the "space bar does a zillion things" control too.

As to your last spoiler comment:
SPOILER:
I reconsidered my previous reconsideration. Previously, I said that yes, there was some level of what you did before mattering, as if your EMS was too low, Earth could be destroyed in the final battle or heavily devastated, versus saved; the Normandy could be destroyed, etc., and if you really did everything you could and got the EMS over 5K and picked "destroy" then Shep took a breath at the very end.

Never mind that. You can get around a lot of your previous screwups if you own an iPad or iPhone - and maybe Android device too, not sure - and you get the ME3 Datapad app (free) and/or Mass Effect: Infiltrator game app ($7). Run mini-missions on the Datapad and play the ME:I game, and you can boost your Galactic Readiness and EMS ratings in your ME3 playthrough.

Alternately, from the ME3 game, play a mess of multiplayer missions and boost those ratings that way. I ran 3 sessions (one completed all 10 waves, the other two only managed 9/10) and got a few hundred EMS points with what was less than an hour of play.

Oh, I'm sure you could handwave that stuff as being part of Shep's preparation, but eh, that doesn't quite fit.


I really did love the game except for the very, very end. So, I might replay it and just stop before that point. I've called myself "Bioware's bitch" before. But I did donate to that "Retake Mass Effect"/Child's Play charity event - the organizer cut it off at the $80K mark but the donation button still works - and I hope they take an honest look at the ending.
  #304  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Kinthalis is offline
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Another couple of things that bugged me:

SPOILER:


The death of Kelly Chambers affected me just as much as some of the other characters. First of all, I flirted with her like a horny dog through out ME2. Secondly, I think the second hand information on her death, the senseless violence of the story... It hit a chord with me for some reason. I guess because that's how you usually experience such things in the real world. I never see people close to me sacrificing themselves like in a video game, but I do hear about attrocities on the news, history books.

I really don't know how to articulate it, but it just touched me...

AND NO ONE PUT HER NAME ON THE MEMORIAL! Where the hell is Kelly's name on the wall? She should have been there too.



And:

SPOILER:


My post ending ending, showed Joker, Tali and the Prothean getting out of the ship in Blue Lagoon planet.

And I swear, Joker was making googly eyes at Tali (my LI). That bastard is going to plow my girl! I know it. There'll be some talk about repopulating the galaxy, and she will protest at first, but eventually she'll do that crippled bastard!

ARGH!
  #305  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
Another couple of things that bugged me:

SPOILER:


My post ending ending, showed Joker, Tali and the Prothean getting out of the ship in Blue Lagoon planet.

And I swear, Joker was making googly eyes at Tali (my LI). That bastard is going to plow my girl! I know it. There'll be some talk about repopulating the galaxy, and she will protest at first, but eventually she'll do that crippled bastard!

ARGH!
SPOILER:
Apparently if you don't have dinner with Kelly, she doesn't show up in ME3; I never saw her. It hurt me to get the e-mail about Kal'Reegar from ME2 dying in battle, though.

My end team was Kaidan (my LI from way back in ME1) and Garrus. You hear that British guy talking after the charge to the Citadel beam-up how everyone died. So how the hell did they get off Earth and onto the Normandy when they were right on my heels in getting nuked by Harbinger? This is why I'm hoping for the Indoctrination Theory, because it at least makes sense of plot holes.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 03-23-2012 at 10:23 AM.
  #306  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
And:

SPOILER:


My post ending ending, showed Joker, Tali and the Prothean getting out of the ship in Blue Lagoon planet.

And I swear, Joker was making googly eyes at Tali (my LI). That bastard is going to plow my girl! I know it. There'll be some talk about repopulating the galaxy, and she will protest at first, but eventually she'll do that crippled bastard!

ARGH!
Quarians are dextro-amino acid based like turians, everyone else is levo - so reproduction is pretty unlikely. It did make sense that
SPOILER:
Garrus and Tali got together in the end; they can eat the same dinner!
  #307  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:26 AM
velveeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
Another couple of things that bugged me:

SPOILER:


The death of Kelly Chambers affected me just as much as some of the other characters. First of all, I flirted with her like a horny dog through out ME2. Secondly, I think the second hand information on her death, the senseless violence of the story... It hit a chord with me for some reason. I guess because that's how you usually experience such things in the real world. I never see people close to me sacrificing themselves like in a video game, but I do hear about attrocities on the news, history books.

I really don't know how to articulate it, but it just touched me...

AND NO ONE PUT HER NAME ON THE MEMORIAL! Where the hell is Kelly's name on the wall? She should have been there too.



And:

SPOILER:


My post ending ending, showed Joker, Tali and the Prothean getting out of the ship in Blue Lagoon planet.

And I swear, Joker was making googly eyes at Tali (my LI). That bastard is going to plow my girl! I know it. There'll be some talk about repopulating the galaxy, and she will protest at first, but eventually she'll do that crippled bastard!

ARGH!
And, now you have joined us. We are legion.
I still haven't gotten over it and I finished it 2 weeks ago. I have a friend who burst into tears over that shitty ending. I'm still hoping that this is all just a big social experiment and they will come out with the big reveal at PAX. Isn't that sad? I'm hoping that they are fucking with my emotions because that's better than that THING being the real ending.
  #308  
Old 03-23-2012, 11:18 AM
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This guy says it all, IMHO:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...index/10395811
  #309  
Old 03-23-2012, 06:40 PM
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Since I recently re-played ME1 and was switching between ME2 and ME3 so that my wife could catch up on the plot, I noticed a great improvement in how smooth the controls were in ME3. The Incinerate power is really handy for something to do when I can't get a good sniper shot in, because it usually finds the target around barriers in ME3. Not so in ME2.

Sure, the cover mechanic makes it difficult to give chase, as in the scene on Mars, because you can't steer very well, and when you hit a wall you stick to it. But at least you can run now constantly without getting tired and slowing down. This is an advantage because at least the female Shepard has a comically exaggerated girly walk when going around the Citadel unarmed.

I picked up every advantage I could to cooldown time and ammo capacity, though on Normal mode, I actually found that only at the end of the game did I sweat ammo. You trip over Ammo in ME3, and whereas previously each clip was one sniper rifle shot, most of the time I was refilled completely if I picked up ammo at all.

I carried only my sniper rifle, which made it even funnier that I would almost always end up holding a pistol during cut scenes. I'm not clear on how the power cooldown percentage stacked. I found that getting a new cooldown ability outside my weapon loadout screen didn't appear to affect the percentage shown in the loadout screen. So, are these multiplied together? Or are they added somewhere where you can't see the math. In any case, my coldown in ME3 was vastly better than in ME2, which made a huge difference in the usefulness of Tactical Cloak and Incinerate.
  #310  
Old 03-24-2012, 09:39 PM
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I have been mulling over my thoughts about the end of the game for about a week now. I am still not 100% is going on but here is my take on the whole ending and ensuing penis:
SPOILER:

-I tend to lean towards the 'indoctrinated Shepard' theory.
-I think that Bioware/EA underestimated how fans were going to react to the ending, especially since they promised they weren't going to do exactly what they did*. And lets be honest, they had to know the attachments even casual players had to the games and characters...
-I think that Bioware/EA planned to sell DLC that would be the 'true ending' of the game. I don't think they can sell it given the outcry (it will need to be free).
-People who think that the whole idea of the relays being destroyed is a terrible ending are right to a point. The relays being destroyed as a condition to or because of the Reapers destruction is likely one of the 'true end game' scenarios, the bittersweet one. Also, the idea that we lose completely and totally should likely be a 'true end game' possibility.



* Simple A,B or C ending.
  #311  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:51 PM
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SPOILER:
I assumed that all three endings had the same result regarding the relays because the next game in this universe is going to be based on space travel without the relays. Maybe you start out on a colony that is now isolated from the rest of the galaxy.
  #312  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:20 AM
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Just finished the game. WTF!

Did I just blow up the galaxy?
  #313  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:19 AM
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Just finished the game. WTF!

Did I just blow up the galaxy?
SPOILER:
Significant parts of it, if the DLC from ME2 is to be believed. In that, you're forced to blow up a mass effect relay gate to keep the Reapers from coming through, but the explosion destroys the system it's in. So considering you have to blow up all the mass relays at the end of ME3 then probably a lot of solar systems, including Earth's, should have been destroyed - assuming I understand this correctly.
  #314  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
SPOILER:
Significant parts of it, if the DLC from ME2 is to be believed. In that, you're forced to blow up a mass effect relay gate to keep the Reapers from coming through, but the explosion destroys the system it's in. So considering you have to blow up all the mass relays at the end of ME3 then probably a lot of solar systems, including Earth's, should have been destroyed - assuming I understand this correctly.
I...that's. What is this shitfuck of an ending? So in the end Shepard is a failure. Maybe even worse than the Reapers. After 3 games I get THIS? Good job Bioware.

Nuke Canada.
  #315  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:21 AM
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Er, belay that last part. I'm okay, just the nerdrage talking.
  #316  
Old 03-25-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
SPOILER:
Significant parts of it, if the DLC from ME2 is to be believed. In that, you're forced to blow up a mass effect relay gate to keep the Reapers from coming through, but the explosion destroys the system it's in. So considering you have to blow up all the mass relays at the end of ME3 then probably a lot of solar systems, including Earth's, should have been destroyed - assuming I understand this correctly.
SPOILER:
Well, you might be able to handwave that part by saying that relays destroy the system they are in when you slam an asteroid into them, but the citadel just kind of turned them off like a big remote control
  #317  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:30 AM
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I've tried to figure out the endings as if they're (horribly) real. Believe me, this doesn't make the ending any better.

Are we still hiding spoilers even though the title says "spoilers"? I'll just hide this just in case.

SPOILER:

"Someone" (a dev!) creates the catalyst and reapers to keep organic life from creating synthetics that "may" destroy all organic life one day. Let's assume that the catalyst's sole function is to keep this from happening.
The reapers guide civilization so that they all progress as they would like - Sov or Harby say so, but I can't remember which one right now.
The catalyst controls the reapers and every 50k years, the reapers come and knock down all advanced civs, harvest the by-product and create another reaper. Ow, my head hurts!
I can't remember if they said what happens to all the synthetics that are left behind after the organics are killed off. It seems like killing all the synthetics would be better. Ow, there goes my head again!

New civs rise up, cycle continues...
Oops, Shepard makes it to the citadel and the crucible is completed. I guess this is the galaxy passing the test. Now the catalyst's "solution" doesn't work anymore, because they've built something more powerful than a reaper. The catalyst decides that the galaxy has to be wiped clean, and gives us the choice on what color we want the explosion to be. Boom! Everyone is dead or stranded somewhere. This is the galactic dark age.

Of course, the catalyst could have left Shepard to die downstairs and accomplished the cycle the normal way, but then we wouldn't get to see the awesome star kid and pretty explosions. /sarcasm
I don't think the fleet was winning, although I could be wrong. Star kid could have just waited it out. Since all the military fleets were there, his job was a lot easier, but I guess he wanted to see stuff asplode.
It also doesn't explain why the reapers are so far away in the beginning. Why don't they just sit out in the open near planets that are going to need cleansing down the road. Hell, they could even pretend to be friendly! Maybe organics could go have tea and cookies inside Harby. Then, when the time comes, Harby justs laughs and kills them. Ho ho ho!
And why the hell does Sov have to fly to the Cit and send the signal manually, after the Protheans messed it up, when the catalyst is already there and supposedly watching. Fuck! Why is Sov even needed as the advanced spy when the catalyst is already there??
Ow, my head!!

So, it still makes no sense, and also doesn't explain why the Normandy is running from the fight. My feeling is if they really did mean for this to be the end, than this is what they we're going for - all "intellectual" and artsy!
It's poorly executed and shitty, because it ignores the bigger themes of the 3 games and just says that the synthetics vs organics theme is really all that matters. Dropping a new antagonist into the last 5 minutes is really terrible story telling. There's no foreshadowing at all that this is coming making it even worse.

Tldr version: the reapers guide organic life until organics acquire the ability to create synthetics. The reapers then come to destroy advanced civilization because they made synthetics that MIGHT turn on them - and save some organic life to repeat the cycle. They are basically the thought-police.
Or, organics pass the test and win the big prize: galactic dark age.
It's so so stupid, but that's the message that the ending is telling us.

The big question I really want answered is why shooting a pipe blows up the Citadel and all the relays and reapers. Herpy derp!

Please let the indoctrination theory be true! Yes, I would rather believe that they are trolling us and seeing if they can suck more cash out of us than to believe this ending.

  #318  
Old 03-25-2012, 03:33 PM
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Just finished. I was sure the rage over the ending would just me more Internet over reaction and to some degree I think it is (this is after all a game) but yeah, wow that was really underwhelming.


SPOILER:
I worked so hard to create a peace between the Geth and the Quarians, to save the Krogan and show them they can live with the Galaxy in peace, and all the other things I did and it was all for nothing because the Mass Relays were all destroyed. That was the the thing that bugged me most. Why did they have to do that?

I can accept Shepard dying. In fact I expected it, but why did Galactic civilization as they know it have to end?

I was also unhappy that it was not possible to get the best possible ending without playing Mutiplayer. I scanned every asset and the only mission I missed was the Citadel Power Relay one because I didn't get the Relay until after the Cerberus attack triggered which makes it impossible to turn in but yet I only had 3800+ readiness because of the 50%. I get that people like multiplayer and I am probably in the minority as to not liking it but this is a single player game. You want multiplayer to matter, make it a separate story or something. I am guessing the fact that my score wasn't maxxed was the reason I only saw three survivors step out of the Normandy at the end.

As an aside: was I the only one who was able to convince The Illusive Man he was indoctrinated and have him kill himself? From what I read, Shepard killing him was how that went for other people.


Loved all three games. Love the setting but yeah that ending was not good.

Last edited by Quimby; 03-25-2012 at 03:35 PM.
  #319  
Old 03-25-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quimby:
SPOILER:
To get TIM to off himself, you have to be 100% Paragon or Renegade. I chose to bitch out the quarian admirals after they attacked the ship I was on and led a drinking chant with other marines in the bar on the Citadel, so I had a sliver of Renegade.
  #320  
Old 03-25-2012, 04:10 PM
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This was posted originally on 4chan and is now a huge topic over on the Bioware forum. WARNING: may contain massive spoilers about the DLC (or is complete BS -- you decide):

April 24th DLC info
  #321  
Old 03-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
Quimby:
SPOILER:
To get TIM to off himself, you have to be 100% Paragon or Renegade. I chose to bitch out the quarian admirals after they attacked the ship I was on and led a drinking chant with other marines in the bar on the Citadel, so I had a sliver of Renegade.
SPOILER:
I was overwhelmingly Paragon, with a few points in Renegade and I got Lulu to shoot himself
  #322  
Old 03-25-2012, 04:44 PM
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SPOILER:
I was overwhelmingly Paragon, with a few points in Renegade and I got Lulu to shoot himself
The conversation option was gray for me - I must have had just a bit too much for it to work.
  #323  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:37 PM
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I had some Renegade as well FWIW but very little compared to Paragon.
  #324  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:45 PM
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Just finished. I was sure the rage over the ending would just me more Internet over reaction and to some degree I think it is (this is after all a game) but yeah, wow that was really underwhelming.


SPOILER:
I am guessing the fact that my score wasn't maxxed was the reason I only saw three survivors step out of the Normandy at the end.
I have the answer to one of your questions.

SPOILER:
No one gets more than three squad members to step out of the Normandy. In my case, 2 of the 3 were squad members I had with me on my run to the beam. They don't have a scratch on them. How is that possible?? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question. No one can answer it.
  #325  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:48 PM
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SPOILER:
I was also unhappy that it was not possible to get the best possible ending without playing Mutiplayer. I scanned every asset and the only mission I missed was the Citadel Power Relay one because I didn't get the Relay until after the Cerberus attack triggered which makes it impossible to turn in but yet I only had 3800+ readiness because of the 50%. I get that people like multiplayer and I am probably in the minority as to not liking it but this is a single player game. You want multiplayer to matter, make it a separate story or something. I am guessing the fact that my score wasn't maxxed was the reason I only saw three survivors step out of the Normandy at the end.
SPOILER:
According to this: As long as you have over 2800 EMS then the only ending that changes after that is the destruction option ending. At 2800 Shepard dies. At 4000 Shepard lives if Anderson lives. At 5000 Shepard lives even if Anderson died. By living they mean a very brief scene showing Shepard moving amongst some rubble.

As if it matters one iota if Shepard lives or dies at the end.

The control ending doesn't change after 2350 EMS and the synthesis ending is always the same but isn't available before 2800.

Last edited by MJinks; 03-25-2012 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Added spoiler boxes.
  #326  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:56 PM
velveeta is offline
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Originally Posted by mikews99 View Post
This was posted originally on 4chan and is now a huge topic over on the Bioware forum. WARNING: may contain massive spoilers about the DLC (or is complete BS -- you decide):

April 24th DLC info
SPOILER:
I've read about this. I'm supposed to believe Shepard survives re-entry in a part of the Citadel - also the part where the massive explosion was centered - and this explains the breath scene. This is the face I am making right now: I wish Bioware could see it.
The rest of it gets even worse. "The Advent". Yes, everyone loved the star kid so much that no one will mind playing a mind-melded version of it and their much-beloved Shep! And, they will fly around the galaxy in a lonely reaper exterminating synthetic life! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

One of their minions has denied this rumor, but my trust in them is pretty low right now... and it almost sounds bad enough to be true.


I think the guy who originally posted it has come out and admitted it's fake.

Last edited by velveeta; 03-25-2012 at 09:58 PM.
  #327  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by velveeta View Post
I have the answer to one of your questions.

SPOILER:
No one gets more than three squad members to step out of the Normandy. In my case, 2 of the 3 were squad members I had with me on my run to the beam. They don't have a scratch on them. How is that possible?? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question. No one can answer it.
Same thing happened in my ending.
  #328  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:28 PM
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Hey Quimby, try to wrap your head around this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ilebasic?pli=1

Wow, he's even added to that doc since I last read it.
  #329  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:10 PM
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Ok, I admit that I'm spending far, far too much time trying to make sense of <you know whats> logic when I should be asleep, but I just thought of something else.

SPOILER:
If the catalyst controls the reapers and they are there to make sure synthetics don't get out of control or advanced enough to wipe out all organic life, then why did the reapers upgrade the Geth?


Sigh.
  #330  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:54 AM
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velveeta, you know there was more than enough up-front "that doesn't make any sense" with the ending, that I never bothered to pursue the Fridge Logic, but yeah, everything you say makes sense. And now my head hurts too!
  #331  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:37 PM
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Thanks for the link. I plan to start wrapping my head around that doc...thanks

Re: scores.

SPOILER:
Thank you for the clarification. I read somewhere that 5000 was necessary to get the "best" ending but best was never defined. Knowing the difference was that minor makes me feel a bit better
  #332  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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Finally (finally? It's only been out 3 weeks...) beat the game for the first time last night, and wow, I do not understand all the nerdrage out there over the ending (and I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if you all are on that crybaby bandwagon or not). It wasn't what I was expecting, probably not what I wanted, but it delivered Shep taking out the reaper threat once and for all, so the rest is just gravy. If it had ended with getting zapped by the reaper when trying to get up to the citadel, THAT would've been rage worthy.

The game's got 99 problems but the ending ain't one.

Last edited by TBG; 03-26-2012 at 06:15 PM.
  #333  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:26 PM
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Finally (finally? It's only been out 3 weeks...) beat the game for the first time last night, and wow, I do not understand all the nerdrage out there over the ending (and I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if you all are on that crybaby bandwagon or not). It wasn't what I was expecting, probably not what I wanted, but it delivered Shep taking out the reaper threat once and for all, so the rest is just gravy. If it had ended with getting zapped by the reaper when trying to get up to the citadel, THAT would've been rage worthy.

The game's got 99 problems but the ending ain't one.
See it from the perspective of someone who has played all three games. Or, even just invested in the third. The central premise - that your choices have consequences - is complete abandoned by the ending. What did you do with the rachni queen? Did you save the Council? Who did you save on Virmire? Did you blow up the Collector base?

Who cares? Pick a colour!

Also; all those characters, your LI? They're stuck on some random planet where they will probably inbreed or starve to death.

Fortunately indoctrination theory fanwanks most of the plotholes in the ending (and there are a lot - read the link posted above), but as-is it's a wholly unsatisfactory ending to the trilogy. Compare ME1 or ME2's endings.

See also; 10 reasons we hate Mass Effect 3's ending.

Last edited by Mr. Kobayashi; 03-26-2012 at 06:27 PM.
  #334  
Old 03-26-2012, 06:29 PM
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The game's got 99 problems but the ending ain't one.
What are the problems you see with the game?
  #335  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:01 PM
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What are the problems you see with the game?
Exactly - my only problem with the game besides the ending involved the PC controls using the space bar for nearly every command.
  #336  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:17 PM
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Like I wrote above, I could accept the whole thing except
SPOILER:
for the part where I made galactic civilization impossible and didn't have a choice in the matter.


ETA: I am cool with the space bar as the master control except it ruins me for other games for a week or two afterwards.

Last edited by Quimby; 03-26-2012 at 07:18 PM.
  #337  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:28 PM
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Finally (finally? It's only been out 3 weeks...) beat the game for the first time last night, and wow, I do not understand all the nerdrage out there over the ending (and I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if you all are on that crybaby bandwagon or not).
I take it you also didn't read the elaborate discussions that have already taken place about this?

Checce vous.

Last edited by Johnny Angel; 03-26-2012 at 09:30 PM.
  #338  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:42 PM
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Finally (finally? It's only been out 3 weeks...) beat the game for the first time last night, and wow, I do not understand all the nerdrage out there over the ending (and I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if you all are on that crybaby bandwagon or not). It wasn't what I was expecting, probably not what I wanted, but it delivered Shep taking out the reaper threat once and for all, so the rest is just gravy. If it had ended with getting zapped by the reaper when trying to get up to the citadel, THAT would've been rage worthy.

The game's got 99 problems but the ending ain't one.
So you are ok with dropping all the themes from ME and boiling it down to synthetics vs organics, introducing a shit load of plot holes in what is supposed to be the ending of a trilogy, retconning everything the reapers tell you from the previous games, introducing the "real villian" in the last 5 minutes, and killing more life than the reapers could ever manage to? I'm glad you like the endings. Seriously, I wish I did.
Why are you preemptively calling people "crybabies" before reading the thread and finding out why some of us have issues with the end?

I read this fantastic essay about what's wrong, and I'll link it here:

http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/...blem-with.html

I'm not trying to talk you out of liking the ending, but people aren't upset that Shepard died or that it was too bleak. All throughout the series, the narrative has never been particularly subtle at key points. All of a sudden, it gets all ambiguous and abstract. We're supposed to fill in the blanks, fatalism replaces hope, our choices don't matter. It's totally jarring and left a sour taste for many, many people.
I even understand that they were trying to be all edgy with the technological singularity angle. I still think it's poorly conceived and not at all what was promised multiple times by Bioware. It reduces the awesomeness of the reapers to playthings of our new antagonist who we don't know dick about. Worst of all, we can't even argue with it.
The author above explains it better, but essentially all the emotional build up towards the final battle never reaches a conclusion. At least it didn't for me. After I got the crass "Buy More DLC!" message after the credits rolled, I felt frustrated, sad, and empty - total opposites from the previous two games.
That's why I hate the ending.

Ok, switching topics a little...
For you guys following the indoc thing, some new stuff has come to light.
SPOILER:
People have been pulling apart the audio in the dream sequences, particularly the second one after Tuchaunka. You can spend a lot of time wandering around this one if you don't chase the boy. If you wait, you will notice that the "oily shadows" of the dead will surround the boy - possibly trying to block you from getting to him. In addition to the normal whispering of the dead, the audio has several distinct whispers that stand out. "Don't trust him." "Stay away!" and "Kill him!"
Apparently, if you get close to the boy, but not close enough to trigger the cut scene, you hear a reaper growl. It's in the audio files, but I haven't tested this since I have no desire to replay the game. I think I'll have to look at is scene though.
Of course, it's probably just more "speculation from everyone!"
  #339  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:22 AM
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By this time I am gotten tired of sprouting why I don't like the ending.

I think I have gotten over it. There's a whole new DLC for the Witcher 2, Diablo III on the horizon, Dragon's Dogma from Capcom, remake of Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II to try again, and Simcity 5 the next year.

Tough fact of life is that if you don't value your fans, you lose them. Go ahead and be artsy all you want.
  #340  
Old 03-27-2012, 03:11 AM
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Still annoyed. At this point, it seems like BioWare's PR campaign of "still waters" is succeeding.
  #341  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:56 AM
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Still annoyed. At this point, it seems like BioWare's PR campaign of "still waters" is succeeding.
If by succeeding you mean keeping your artistic integrity while driving a stake into your loyal fanbase then yes.
  #342  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:09 AM
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Another thing that angers me, and this is off-topic really, so sorry:

They appear to be going down the same path with their other IP: Dragon Age. DAII also had an ending that basically amounted to you being a bystander, and none of the choices you made during the game played ANY role in the outcome. It was maddening.

Not only that, but apparently, and in spite of the success of DA:O, and the promise of Dragon Age being a spiritual successor to BG, they are adamant on keeping the whole Mass Effect style conversation system for DAIII, as well as focusing on action based combat, instead of a more tactical approach to it.

The whole "Push a button and something awesome happens. BUTTON - AWESOME!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV97ozaD4vs
  #343  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:12 AM
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By this time I am gotten tired of sprouting why I don't like the ending.

I think I have gotten over it. There's a whole new DLC for the Witcher 2, Diablo III on the horizon, Dragon's Dogma from Capcom, remake of Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II to try again, and Simcity 5 the next year.

Tough fact of life is that if you don't value your fans, you lose them. Go ahead and be artsy all you want.
I feel so burned that I don't want to play any video games right now. I don't see myself pre-ordering ever again or buying anything on release day. Now I'll wait for the fan reviews to find out if anything is worth getting. I certainly don't trust the IGNs and their ilk. So, I guess I haven't gotten over it yet, although that sinking feeling is starting to set in that this is the end of the line for Bioware and me. This was always my fear when EA bought them.
The ME games were my favorites and it's hard for me to let it go. If the games had always been mediocre, I wouldn't have cared as much about them screwing up the ending.
  #344  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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Another thing that angers me, and this is off-topic really, so sorry:

They appear to be going down the same path with their other IP: Dragon Age. DAII also had an ending that basically amounted to you being a bystander, and none of the choices you made during the game played ANY role in the outcome. It was maddening.

Not only that, but apparently, and in spite of the success of DA:O, and the promise of Dragon Age being a spiritual successor to BG, they are adamant on keeping the whole Mass Effect style conversation system for DAIII, as well as focusing on action based combat, instead of a more tactical approach to it.

The whole "Push a button and something awesome happens. BUTTON - AWESOME!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV97ozaD4vs
The only reason I can think of as to why they've seemingly abandoned their prior format is EA. All the games are shorter now to increase the amount of DLC.
DA2 would have been fine as a stand-alone game. It didn't fit as the spiritual successor of DAO.

Back to ME...
Here's something to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wisHc...e_gdata_player

Lalalalala I can't hear you!

Last edited by velveeta; 03-27-2012 at 08:23 AM.
  #345  
Old 03-27-2012, 11:46 PM
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I am another person who didn't hate the ending and I think it came down to me just not being as invested in the story. I played (and replayed) ME2 and imported my character to ME3, but in the end Mass Effect is just a shooter to me.

In fact, I played ME games to take a break from RPGs when I wanted to keep gaming, but not think so much. Every level seemed linear and there was never any solution to a mission other than to duck behind a piece of cover, shoot all the bad guys and then talk about it with Miranda while the camera focused on her ass.

I think my reaction to the ending was "not bad for a shooter."
  #346  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:57 AM
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If by succeeding you mean keeping your artistic integrity while driving a stake into your loyal fanbase then yes.
I'd be more impressed with the artistic integrity line of argument (not that I think you're a proponent) if they actually spoke up and defended themselves, rather than just make vague noises that they "hear us" and "are listening to fan feedback." What they seem to be actually doing is moving the goalposts for actually committing to anything whatsoever in any direction until the game has sold every copy it's going to.

(Which, judging by the VGChartz.com XBOX 360 sales numbers for Mass Effect 2, pretty much happens in the first two months. Considering that out of the recorded 2,1 million it sold in 2010, it sold 1,6 million in the first 8 weeks. In total they sold 2,6 million copies of Mass Effect 2 on the XBOX 360 to date, which means they sold an additional million after that, true. However, many of those copies were probably discounted by anything from 10-80% - the majority of the revenue is probably still made in the first two months.)

So, in other words, check back on May 6th. Until then they're not going to make any move in any direction, whatsoever. The only viable move to make from a consumer standpoint would be encouraging people not to buy it until they commit and essentially treat the game like they did Stronghold 3, broken upon impact. And that's not going to happen, because the game frankly isn't.

Last edited by Gukumatz; 03-28-2012 at 01:57 AM.
  #347  
Old 03-28-2012, 08:01 AM
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I'd be more impressed with the artistic integrity line of argument (not that I think you're a proponent) if they actually spoke up and defended themselves, rather than just make vague noises that they "hear us" and "are listening to fan feedback." What they seem to be actually doing is moving the goalposts for actually committing to anything whatsoever in any direction until the game has sold every copy it's going to.

(Which, judging by the VGChartz.com XBOX 360 sales numbers for Mass Effect 2, pretty much happens in the first two months. Considering that out of the recorded 2,1 million it sold in 2010, it sold 1,6 million in the first 8 weeks. In total they sold 2,6 million copies of Mass Effect 2 on the XBOX 360 to date, which means they sold an additional million after that, true. However, many of those copies were probably discounted by anything from 10-80% - the majority of the revenue is probably still made in the first two months.)

So, in other words, check back on May 6th. Until then they're not going to make any move in any direction, whatsoever. The only viable move to make from a consumer standpoint would be encouraging people not to buy it until they commit and essentially treat the game like they did Stronghold 3, broken upon impact. And that's not going to happen, because the game frankly isn't.
I have wondered why they chose artistic integrity to hide behind. There's no "dangerous precedent" being set because there are already many examples of books, movies, and other games changing their endings. The world isn't going to end if Bioware makes additional endings. Hell, technically DLC changes the product and they sure love that!

And if they're so proud of it, why aren't they explaining it? If it's just a case of fans not getting it, then why not explain what it's supposed to mean. The fact that they haven't leads me to believe that this is not really the ending. They keep dancing around the question and saying, "Wait until April!" and coyly keeping the speculation sky high with ambiguous tweets.

What I'm afraid of is that they sold us an incomplete game on purpose to try and sell the ending DLC later. This is EA we're talking about...
I'm waiting to see what they come out with at PAX on April 6th.
  #348  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:18 AM
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So I finally freed myself from ME3's influence on Sunday afternoon. My thoughts:

* I really like the small changes they made to the combat and skill system. I think they improved upon the already improved system from ME2 and I liked the power-recharge/weapons tradeoff.
* I like how, in general, they kept what worked and retooled or eliminated what didn't. Though, this had the unfortunate consequence of paring things down a little too much (the "scanning" was a joke, and there's not much else apart from the combat and the dialogue). I didn't mind the hacking minigames from ME2, and I'd have had no problem with them being retained.
* As usual, the story, acting, and writing were top notch. I still think that ME2 holds together the best as a game, but for the most part, ME3 promised a thrilling, high-stakes conclusion to the story and did not disappoint (except for that big disappointment that everyone is talking about).
* James was pretty much a non-entity. I found his character uninteresting and I had little desire to get to know him. I think that partially has to do with him being uninteresting and a lot to do with them tossing a new character into the mix so late in the story.
* I didn't realize that the extra character DLC was so substantial, and I avoid looking into it before finishing the game because I feared that it was tied into the ending controversy, and I was eager to avoid spoilers. Now I kind of wish I had the Day1 DLC from the beginning, but I'll be buggered if I'm going to replay the game just for that. Too much of a time commitment.


Now for spoilery opinions:
SPOILER:

* Curing the genophage and reuniting the Geth and Quarians were totally awesome; two of the high points in the series, IMO.
* Watching that Reaper on Tuchanka get taken down by the Thresher Maw Queen (Kalross?) was also totally awesome.
* I'm a bit annoyed at some of the cause/effect (or lack thereof) that occurs in the game. For example: if you spare the Rachni Queen in ME1, the Reapers capture her in ME3 and start turning her children into Ravagers. According to the ME Wikia, this happens even if you killed the Rachni Queen in ME1, the only difference being that it's a "clone" queen. I know eliminating the Ravagers as enemies would have had major gameplay implications, but to hand wave the effect of your previous choice away like that feels like a huge cop-out. I had been hoping that the ending was the only major example of that kind of choice-neutering.
* Harbinger should have had a larger role.


And now, for spoilery ending-based opinions:
SPOILER:

* I was certainly left disappointed by the ending. There was little to no closure. Joker fleeing the explosion with your London squadmates made no sense. The introduction of The Catalyst Kid at the end and the brief, unsatisfying explanation for the Reapers was unfortunate. I agree that the destruction of the relays kind of makes every ending a losing situation anyway, so what's the point?
* My first choice was the "blue" ending. I didn't think it was fair to wipe out EDI and the Geth (sounds like an Elton John song, "E-E-E-EDI and the Geth"), after rallying them to fight for my cause. As for the "green" ending, I interpreted the dialogue as "this will crunch up all organics and synthetics in the galaxy into a new, raw DNA from which a new generation will form," so I thought that was a jerk thing to do to everyone, as well.
* The circuit traces on the leaves and everyone's skin in the "green" ending was asinine. And why did EDI have circuit traces?! She was already synthetic! Shouldn't she have had freckles or something?!


Maybe more opinions later.
  #349  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:14 AM
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Here's a great video on why it fails basic story telling. It's almost 40 minutes long, but it's well done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mlat...e_gdata_player
  #350  
Old 03-28-2012, 12:04 PM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Anyone read this Mass Defect article on the New Yorker? I was about to burst in a fit of explosive anger, then I just rolled my eyes and went meh.

I don't know how real the other threats to PC gaming, such as game renting and piracy, are but the time when the pretentious artsy type reigns in games is when the industry dies.

Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 03-28-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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