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  #751  
Old 11-24-2014, 03:50 PM
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Yes he should, he is an icon, and WCW is the property of WWE now. The standards aren't that high for the HOF, it's there for any long term or spectacular superstar, and he qualifies at least for the long term.
If Verne Gagne, Gordon Solie, and Drew Carey are worthy of being in the WWE Hall of Fame, then Sting sure is.
  #752  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:41 PM
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I'm not going to link to the site, but reports have

SPOILER:
Sting vs Undertaker


at Wrestlemania 31.

So excited. /sarcasm
  #753  
Old 11-24-2014, 06:16 PM
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I'm not going to link to the site, but reports have

SPOILER:
Sting vs Undertaker


at Wrestlemania 31.

So excited. /sarcasm
Nah, everything I'm hearing is Sting vs Trips.

Taker is done
  #754  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:32 AM
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RAW 11/24

Well, that was kind of... anemic. Plus, Larry the Cable Guy used to be funny.

At least they haven't forgot about Daniel Bryan, and they allowed him a bit of schadenfreud on The Authori-tie. I loved the looks of utter disgust they gave him as he cheerfully pranced in their faces.

At least they aren't reprising Big Show vs Cena XXXVIII. The feud with man-child Erick Rowan should be decent if played back at double speed.

I finally realized the multiple eyes were for Luke Harper, not Bray Wyatt. Because of the way he stares. His match with Ambrose was kind of ehhh, like they both phoned it in. Understandable, since they had both worked hard the night before.

Is the next step in Kane vs Ryback going to be a food fight?

It's really hard for me to write up my typical biting commentary today. The resurgence of the anonymous GM has seriously dampened my spirits and stifled my creativity. That was such a lame, pointless angle before. The only way this could work is if it was something Stephanie's doing out of spite, to show how WWE will truly do a toilet spin if the Authori-tie is not in control.

I'll close with my favorite LtCG joke: My nephew got in trouble for sleeping with his teacher. The bad thing is, he was being home-schooled at the time.
  #755  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:40 AM
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What a fun RAW that ended up being!

I told you, Indy gets all the good shows. I popped pretty well with Daniel Bryan coming back, I wasn't expecting it at all actually...I figured it would be some heel. The beginning segment was long, but really entertaining so I didn't feel its length. Quick hits as I think of them:

Koncession Kane is absolutely hilarious! I saw on Twitter that someone was proud of him for taking his new job so seriously since he was really quite meticulous over where his hot dogs and nachos were. My only comment on that is that food services aren't regulated by the shows that come into the venue, but the venue itself. So not only does DB not have the authority (heh) to relegate Kane to doing that, but having sexy bitchy manager girl act like that means that the management of Bankers Life Fieldhouse is like that. Yes I know it's a wrestling bit.

Ryback squashing Mark Henry was to be expected, although I enjoyed his bit with Koncession Kane too. "You forgot your nuts!"

Harper/Ambrose was soooooo stupid. Not only was the match really not that good, but the ending was something else entirely. I'd almost rather have a rollup than that. Not that I expected any finish anyway since I knew Wyatt would enter.

Trips and Stephanie were good as always. Steph dials it up to 11 when she's "upset", but I think at this point it's kinda on purpose. Trips is gold as always. The segment with Vince was kinda stupid but oh well

Larry/Santino: I didn't think either segment was too horrible to be honest. Typical pointless guest star BS, but poor Santino getting bathed in condiments

Dusts vs Mizzuz: Not bad either. I love it when Miz gets hit, and Mizdow jumps into the ring to mimic it, and everyone stops and just watches him do it. TOY BELTS!!! HAHAHA. Shoula used that plug for K mart! Damien still lookin strong! I was impressed when he did that kick-flip thing to stand back up...he's having fun you can just tell. Anyone else see the person in the audience that had a "yaaay" "boooo" sign?

Divas: Typical BS. Now the Bellas are friends again? I mean, we didn't even hear about the whole "Servant" thing even tho that technically ends tomorrow. Lesbe honeset wife of CM Punk tell me how talent isn't sexually transmitted?

Intergendered/mixed species tag: Um...what? The bunny isn't funny when he accidentally causes Rose to lose. Plus I don't have much sympathy TO SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS LOSES WHEN THEY GET ROLLED UP. Seriously Adam, you're a big guy, quit being a pussy. And since it involved Tyson and Natty: lol domestic abuse!

Rusev: I'm so bored with this guy. Fun little cameo by the Sarge, but as soon as the Pledge started happening I said "well here comes Swagger" and lo and behold there he was. They can't get anyone more fun than him? really? He jobs out to people way less strong than Rusev, how am I supposed to believe he has a chance again? Can we please just have ryback end the streak and we can get on with our lives?

Big Show: Don't give a shit. Plus Rowan was pretty random.

End match: That was pretty boring as well. Ill-timed commercials. The ending was kinda fun tho with the double finishers/double pins.

Speaking of commercials that Cena Foot Locker commercial is pretty hilarious. Girlfriend thinks that Cena should do SNL, and I think he'd be really good.
  #756  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:03 AM
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I thought the DB segment went too long but was okay. I thought Kane working concessions was legit funny. Ryback v Mark Henry is what it is. I actually really liked the Ambrose Harper match, I don't know what you guys wanted from that. In particular I liked when Ambrose showed he could actually grind, he had Harper locked in some pretty good armlocks and Harper showed the little touches that make him great--favorig the arm afterwards and actually looking in legit pain during them. I felt like it was a great mixture of more traditional wrestling with some of Ambrose's more Shieldesque spots. The ending was atrocious but that's on WWE Creative.

As always I have no interest in Divas matches, but give AJ an A for that mouth: lesbi-honest and "talent isn't sexually transmitted" were both about as edgy as WWE could get in the PG era and were delivered well.

The Bunny Angle continues to be shameful and bad. Fandango was unwatchable. The main event ended flat. Oh, the tag team match was decent. The Anonymous GM feels like WWE Creative doesn't know where to go, hopefully they have a clear person in mind and are just building up to a reveal.
  #757  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:55 AM
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Martin: The Harper/Ambrose match wasn't bad. It just wasn't their usual level of WOW. I guess one reason is because it didn't have the psychological buildup that's such a big part of Ambrose's matches.

I watched a match between Ambrose and Rollins from their FCW days the other day, before they established the identities they have now. It was all textbook and nowhere near as exciting as their usual matches today. By contrast, the Wyatts vs the Shield match at Elimination Chamber was hugely psychological in nature and stole the show. The Harper/Ambrose match was more of a castoff event to continue Dean's feud with Bray and wasn't nearly as gripping as I've grown accustomed to.
  #758  
Old 11-25-2014, 03:20 PM
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It also amounts to the fact that Harper isn't the type of guy that pairs well with Dean-o in the ring.

He is much better with the quicker, more athletic guys than he is with the plodding brutes. With a quicker guy Dean can show off his own athleticism, jump and bounce around, and show his "craziness" by quick bursts of offense.

Against a big slow guy all he can do is slow himself down, which takes it from an Abmbrose match, to a ho-hum wrestling match
  #759  
Old 11-27-2014, 06:36 AM
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Bowwannhhhh
Baaaannnhhhh


LU 11/26

I think Drago's black shiny tongue is an extension of his own. He somehow keeps it in his mouth the entire match. I could see it creeping out of his mouth when Muertes pinned him.

Move of the night I: Mascarito flips out and lands on top of Ivalise. First time I have ever seen a midget bowl a strike on a woman in wrestling.

Move of the night II: Prince Puma cartwheels, jumps on top of Big Ryck and Cuerto's goons outside the ring, and lands on his feet. Ta-Daaa!

Move of the night III: Mundo does a running jump from the office ceiling into the ring. I thought he was going to land on Ryck, but that probably would have killed him.

Feliz Thanksgiving, compadres.

Bowwannhhhh
Baaaannnhhhh
  #760  
Old 11-27-2014, 08:54 AM
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CM Punk appeared on Colt Cabana's podcast to finally talk about leaving the WWE.

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/201...ing-out-on-wwe (link to podcast within this link).

Granted, this is only his side of the story. He has no kind words for Triple HHH or Ryback, who he calls a "steroid guy", among other things. I've only read the recap and hope to listen later today, but it sounds like the possibility of Punk coming back at this time is somewhere between slim and none.
  #761  
Old 11-27-2014, 12:07 PM
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Never going back. Would be extremely surprised if he ever wrestled again.

And why should he? Net worth estimated about $7.5 million. Going to be over $100k a year easily in interest and dividends alone. Gets to do Comic books, podcasts, TV shows, go to major sporting events as a celebrity and hang out with other rich and famous people. Nice life if you can get it, and he got it. More power to him if he decides to sit back and enjoy it.
  #762  
Old 11-27-2014, 06:24 PM
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Never going back. Would be extremely surprised if he ever wrestled again.

And why should he? Net worth estimated about $7.5 million. Going to be over $100k a year easily in interest and dividends alone. Gets to do Comic books, podcasts, TV shows, go to major sporting events as a celebrity and hang out with other rich and famous people. Nice life if you can get it, and he got it. More power to him if he decides to sit back and enjoy it.
Heard about this too.

Not surprised by any of it and with AJs impending ending date with WWE looming, he's gonna be able to sit back and enjoy married life
  #763  
Old 11-27-2014, 10:47 PM
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So, anybody get their hands on Colt's shoot interview with Punk yet? It's killed his podcast feed--I suspect he went through a month's worth of bandwidth in an hour, if that, and apparently he shot straight to #2 on the iTunes podcast charts. The upshot, near as I can tell, is that we'd better give up any hope of Punk coming back any time soon. Never say never, but I think we can say "not in this decade" unless Punk manages to run out of money.

NXT tonight was solid. Highlights included HOLY SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT BRAINBUSTER AND THEY ACTUALLY CALLED IT in the main event, the Vaudevillains video, which I think has to be on the shortlist for video segment of the year, and Tyson Kidd wearing a shirt made with a skull made out of cats. Also, some top quality heelin' from Tyler Breeze on Marcus Louis, the Hunchback of Notre Full Sail, and excellent chants from the crowd--I think my fave was "THIS IS AWKWARD clap clap clapclapclap".

Low points included... well, the name of the next "PPV" is stupid. R-Evolution? Really? I would've preferred Takeover 33-1/3: The Final Insult.
  #764  
Old 11-28-2014, 09:20 AM
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So, anybody get their hands on Colt's shoot interview with Punk yet?
Just read highlights. Don't care if he runs out of money (unlikely), it seems clear he'll never go back with Vince and H in charge.

Quote:
NXT tonight was solid. Highlights included HOLY SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT BRAINBUSTER AND THEY ACTUALLY CALLED IT in the main event, the Vaudevillains video, which I think has to be on the shortlist for video segment of the year, and Tyson Kidd wearing a shirt made with a skull made out of cats. Also, some top quality heelin' from Tyler Breeze on Marcus Louis, the Hunchback of Notre Full Sail, and excellent chants from the crowd--I think my fave was "THIS IS AWKWARD clap clap clapclapclap".
That chant SO made me want to be there.

In fact, it made me think about possibly planning a trip for next year to go to the tapings.
  #765  
Old 11-28-2014, 12:59 PM
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So, anybody get their hands on Colt's shoot interview with Punk yet? It's killed his podcast feed--I suspect he went through a month's worth of bandwidth in an hour, if that, and apparently he shot straight to #2 on the iTunes podcast charts. The upshot, near as I can tell, is that we'd better give up any hope of Punk coming back any time soon. Never say never, but I think we can say "not in this decade" unless Punk manages to run out of money?
Someone with WAY too much time on their hands transcribed it:

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/201...na-transcribed

Apparently Ryback is none too pleased with Punk's comments:

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/201...cabana-podcast
  #766  
Old 11-28-2014, 02:19 PM
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Low points included... well, the name of the next "PPV" is stupid. R-Evolution?
Wasn't he Ron Killings' tag partner back in the '90s?
  #767  
Old 11-28-2014, 02:20 PM
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I didn't read the whole interview (or listen to it) but it's certainly changed my view on Punk.

What an entitled, whiny, self obsessed asshole. He sounds like such a baby in everything and makes himself sound like he's the...well...Best In The World.

Whatever, I don't care if he comes back now
  #768  
Old 11-28-2014, 04:03 PM
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I dunno, I have to give him a pass on the ego bit. If you don't have that ego and aren't willing to fight for your spot in that world, you won't make it.
  #769  
Old 11-29-2014, 08:01 AM
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I didn't listen to the interview (I tried but it wasn't downloadable on iTunes, there are several different sites that are hosting their own streams but I wanted something I could download and listen to on a road trip I had to make this week), but read the transcript. Since I actually missed the entire CM Punk era and only have seen a few of his matches on the Network I don't feel I have any preconceived notions about Punk.

My opinion on his comments

-Ryback is obviously on steroids, if Punk is truthful about being injured by Ryback then it sounds like he's another Goldberg type that is too dangerous to be in the ring

-Maybe Triple H does dislike Punk and Triple H is a dick, but I disagreed with Punk's assessment that Triple H "needs to wrestle Punk." I didn't know who CM Punk was until I started watching WWE again at WM30, so honestly his visibility is zero to a non-wrestling fan (which I was for about ten years.) I knew Triple H from before then and he periodically was in pop culture. Love him or hate him Triple H has worked Wrestlemanias with the biggest names ever, he doesn't "need" Punk for anything.

-Seems to confirm what I've always heard about Vince, Vince is usually conciliatory or even nice in person, but is ruthless when he has to be. The supposed "tears in his eyes" moment is reminiscent of how others who have had fall outs with Vince talk about it, namely that Vince seems one way in person but then fires your ass or sets you up to lose to Shawn Michaels at Survivor Series.

-What is the relationship between WWE's doctors and the wrestlers would be something I'd like to know. If they have a true doctor-patient relationship then Punk was done a huge disservice by not being treated for a serious infected abscess in his back, and it sounds like he's also got legitimate concussion concerns as well. But without knowing how such a relationship works, it could also mean that Punk was really supposed to have his own physician and for some reason didn't. I know when Steve Austin has gone into detail about his medical issues (his neck, his health scare before his final match), he's typically talked about various private doctors he was working with, not WWE doctors. When I saw a documentary on Triple H that detailed his treatment for his quadriceps tear, again it was physicians and rehabilitation trainers totally unassociated with WWE. So it's quite possible that Punk was assuming WWE physicians were his personal doctors, when perhaps their only real legal function is to just sign off on a wrestler being healthy enough to get in the ring or not. I know that team doctors on say, a baseball team probably wouldn't be cutting out abscesses or serving as the player's PCP. They would refer the players to their doctors if they saw problems, though.

-It sounds like Punk viewed his economic value to WWE as larger than WWE viewed it. I suspect this is because (from what I can tell) he has a passionate fan base, but this passionate fan base may not be as big a part of the WWE universe as Punk might like (for example in comparison to all the little kids and their captive parents who have to like John Cena.)

-It sounds like Punk hated being a pro wrestler as of 2014 and has enough money and wherewithal to live off of it indefinitely, so it only makes sense he would quit. Medically if he's really had as many concussion problems as he claims he probably shouldn't be in a ring.
  #770  
Old 11-29-2014, 11:11 AM
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Figure Four Daily is reporting that the locker room, including those who were happy to see Punk leave, we're glad that Punk said everything he did about the way things run in the company. Vince is upset with Punk, and Triple HHH is fuming and wants to kill Punk. Punk didn't burn that bridge, he nuked it from orbit.
  #771  
Old 11-29-2014, 01:21 PM
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Figure Four Daily is reporting that the locker room, including those who were happy to see Punk leave, we're glad that Punk said everything he did about the way things run in the company. Vince is upset with Punk, and Triple HHH is fuming and wants to kill Punk. Punk didn't burn that bridge, he nuked it from orbit.
Yeah, Punk's never coming back.

Just like how Steve Austin, Bret Hart, the New Age Outlaws, Booker T, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, X-Pac, Christian, Warrior, Mick Foley, and Hulk Hogan never came back after all the bridges they burned.
  #772  
Old 11-29-2014, 03:10 PM
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If Bret can come back, anyone can. WWE literally killed his brother and screwed him on a live PPV in his home country, he responded with probably several of the most anti-WWE/WWF screeds in history. Including several documentaries and a book of his that talks about Vince being pretty much all around terrible (covers everything from Vince never actually paying Stu Hart a dime for Stampede Wrestling in violation of their agreement up through his involvement in Owen's death.) The Hart family sued (successfully) over Owen's death and won $18m. That's still worse than the current Punk/Vince relationship and Bret is now in the Hall of Fame and was on Raw not too long ago.

Punk would have to want to come back, much as Bret did. Bret had medical reasons that prevented him ever truly coming back as a wrestler. He actually has a huge insurance settlement from when Goldberg brained him with a mule kick and when he "worked" a few return matches with WWE they were apparently very up in his ass about the level of physicality; he wasn't allowed to take any bumps or the insurance company would have sued him on the grounds it was no longer the case that he had suffered a career ending injury.

Punk is apparently very health-conscious compared to most pro-Wrestlers. He's "Straight Edge" (world's dumbest philosophy), and such, so I think if he has legit fears of long term side effects of concussions he'll never be back as a full time wrestler. It doesn't mean ten years from now when all the rage has died down and there's an opportunity to come back and make some easy money doing a few segments or appearances he won't do that. I read an article the other day that said Flair was being paid something like $36k/mo in his current capacity, which involves essentially no work. There's money to be made on that side of things.
  #773  
Old 11-30-2014, 01:52 PM
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I watched most of Punk's special on WWE Network some time back, and to hear him tell it, he trained himself. He started off as a backyard wrestler, and eventually joined an area indy league and worked his way up from there. He called his own shots and didn't seem to credit anybody as an influence, but he worked zillions of matches with Colt Cabana, so I would say CC is responsible for a lot of Punk's emerging success. A little too much arrogance and hubris, but sometimes that's how you move up in the world.

I doubt Punk's going to sit on his hands for too long. Eventually his rebel novelty will be forgotten, and he'll want to find his way back to the spotlight. Maybe he can do like Foley did and host some robot wars shows on cable, or decide to start his own wrestling league.
  #774  
Old 11-30-2014, 02:55 PM
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He's starting to write comics for Marvel. If he's any good, he may start getting more work doing that.
  #775  
Old 11-30-2014, 03:26 PM
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There's something ironic about the fact that one of the tipping points for Punk's deciding to walk out was learning that, instead of main-eventing WrestleMania, he'd be fighting Triple H on the upper midcard.

That plan was made in the lead-up to the Royal Rumble, at the time when WWE was convinced that fans would accept Batista as a returning hero and cheer for him in the main event match. That, of course, didn't happen, and WWE had to come up with a save - so they booked Daniel Bryan into the storyline Punk had been in and gave him the match with Trips, with the stipulation that he'd get to be in the main event if he won.

Had Punk not left the company, he'd likely have gotten that spot instead.
  #776  
Old 12-01-2014, 09:10 AM
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I doubt Punk's going to sit on his hands for too long. Eventually his rebel novelty will be forgotten, and he'll want to find his way back to the spotlight. Maybe he can do like Foley did and host some robot wars shows on cable, or decide to start his own wrestling league.
This is probably the most likely scenario.

He'll do just fine doing is Marvel Comics, until no one reads them because no one really reads comics anymore, he'll panic because omg no one is paying attention to him anymore and figure out some way of getting back into the spotlight.
  #777  
Old 12-02-2014, 07:30 AM
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I only barely watched RAW (Dolphins were on) and from what I saw it was boring as hell.

The Fins were boring/losing at the time too so I ended up going to bed at 10. Anything interesting happen?

Also did anyone listen/watch the Austin Podcast? They bring up Punk?
  #778  
Old 12-02-2014, 08:01 AM
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I missed Raw, I may rewatch at some point this week. I did get home in time to see the Austin/McMahon podcast. I suggest watching it/listening to it.

Some backstory, if you ever listen to Austin's regular podcast it's obvious he's not an insanely enthused fan of the current product. However, he's always extremely respectful to the WWE, and in fact almost never directly criticizes them. My prediction was this would be a love-fest where Steve didn't really ask any harsh questions. I was wrong.

If this podcast was pre-scripted, then it's the best acting job I've seen from either man. Austin asked several questions that seemed to really annoy Vince.

Austin did ask about Punk, surprisingly that was one of the "easy" questions as least based on Vince's reaction. Vince probably had prepped for that specifically. Vince was conciliatory, he didn't address any of the stuff relating to Ryback or the medical issues, but he apologized that Punk received his severance papers on his wedding day and said it was unintentionally, but that he was sorry. He said he was open to working with Punk in the future.

Austin contrasted Punk's leaving to his 8 month hiatus (when he left over refusing to job to Lesnar) and asked if an intermediary could bring them together in the way JR brought Vince and Austin back together. Vince said he thinks part of the problem with Punk is there was no such intermediary, and that Punk is a loner with poor communication skills.

The issues that really seemed to annoy Vince is when Austin used the term "pro wrestling", it appears Vince really hates the use of that term. Vince said that "pro wrestling is what my dad did, I do sports entertainment."

Vince also objects to Austin's characterization of Vince having "put the territories out of business." Vince claims that men like Verne Gagne and other territory owners were multi-millionaires who at the time were fair wealthier than him, because he basically had bought WWF from his dad on credit. [Not delved into on the podcast too much but I was previously aware of this, his dad basically made the sale a loan with a huge balloon payment, if Vince had failed to make it, the federation would have reverted back to his dad and Vince got nothing.]

Vince said that all the other territory owners who were cash-rich, had all their money outside of the business, while he was folding all of his money back into the business to increase production values and etc. In his words the territories put themselves out of the business by refusing to invest in themselves.

Austin asked about the large writing staff today versus only having a few in his day, and annoys Vince when he uses the term "a whole bunch of writers." Vince argues WWE is much larger today and requires them.

Austin says he'd like to see more in ring action, and the opening segment sometimes goes too long. Vince conceded that on the opening segment, but says that the in ring actually only matters if people care about the storyline, and he sees no value in "just two guys wrestling."

Basically Vince seems mostly okay talking about any past controversies (including Punk), and extensively on Austin and his controversies. He seems very uncomfortable with any questions about the current business or the direction WWE is going.

At the end Austin asks McMahon repeatedly if there is an email or other contact information that fans can use to give feedback to WWE. This also seemed to bother Vince for some reason, and he just kept repeating that "he listens to the audience" for his feedback. Austin then just says "alright, so use WWE or Vince McMahon's official twitter to give feedback" (Vince seems annoyed at this.)

Anyway, it was pretty interesting, and covered a lot more than I just summarized.
  #779  
Old 12-02-2014, 08:29 AM
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I listened to part 1 of Austin's interview with Bray Wyatt. Part II airs Tuesday night.

They mainly discussed Bray's background and how he came up with his character. Bray said he knew a kid named Bray White who frequently got into fights. He had lost the feeling in his face and couldn't feel any punches to that area, so he won a lot. "Wyatt" comes from Wyatt Earp. He's a big fan of horror movies, and got to talk to Dan Spivey about his Waylon Mercy character, who also wore Hawaiian shirts. Bray said he listens to podcasts of right-wing crackpot conspiracy theorists (as well as Charles Manson) and gets of lot of his material from them. He originally studied broadcast journalism and wants to become one of those right-wing crackpot conspiracy theorists when he retires from wrestling. Hey, worked for Jess Ventura.

Austin brought up that even though Bray's supposed to be a heel, he has a lot of fans. Bray said he makes it a point not to insult the audience like other heels do, since cult leaders typically try to win over converts with their charms. As for how he wound up with Mark Crozier's song as his intro, he talked about how each wrestler consults with the music director and listens from a database of music to pick what type of entrance music they want. He said other guys usually pick out the style of music they want in short manner, but it took him days of listening until he discovered the Crozier tune and decided it resonated with him. So, it would seem like the individual wrestler can have a lot of say in their character development, and if they seem bland on TV, it's mostly their fault. :-)
  #780  
Old 12-02-2014, 08:58 AM
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So, it would seem like the individual wrestler can have a lot of say in their character development, and if they seem bland on TV, it's mostly their fault. :-)
And it doesn't hurt if your dad is part of the booking team, either.
  #781  
Old 12-02-2014, 09:30 AM
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They mainly discussed Bray's background and how he came up with his character.
I'm a bit surprised he went out of character--he's known for keeping kayfabe in pretty much all of his appearances.

I've got my fingers crossed Steve releases his Vince interview as a regular podcast--I only caught part of it, and it seems to have been a lot more interesting than I would have expected.
  #782  
Old 12-02-2014, 09:49 AM
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I suspect the McMahon podcast will be released as a normal podcast by SCSA. Near the end the WWE Network people were telling Steve he only had 1 minute left, and Steve asked Vince if he could stay to answer his last question "eventhough it won't be on the air, I'd like it for my podcast." So I think Austin was legit recording for his show. Vince ended up saying "well since I own the network, whoever is in charge, give us 15 more minutes of air time." I think that was a legit move, the network's show information only showed the interview scheduled for 60mins and something else scheduled right after, and they went 15 mins past that.
  #783  
Old 12-02-2014, 10:20 AM
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Austin says he'd like to see more in ring action, and the opening segment sometimes goes too long. Vince conceded that on the opening segment, but says that the in ring actually only matters if people care about the storyline, and he sees no value in "just two guys wrestling."

"Two guys wrestling" is the best storyline! There's been large chunks of my fandom where I just watch PPVs because I don't have to put up with promos and skits and recaps and all of that stuff that wastes time and makes a 3 hour Raw seem like a 6 hour Raw. It needs to be less "sports entertainment" and more professional wrestling.
  #784  
Old 12-02-2014, 02:59 PM
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I'm a bit surprised he went out of character--he's known for keeping kayfabe in pretty much all of his appearances.
That he does, but SCSA always interviews the person and not the personality.
  #785  
Old 12-03-2014, 08:05 AM
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/lana: Drazir, drazir. In your American capitalist society, man exploits man. In Russia, it's the other way around.

RAW in a nutshell: Bray tries once more to make Ambrose crack, but Dean makes him his bitch instead; Rusev renews feud with Swagger, so he's jerked back from main event level; Big Show and Erick Rowan are going to throw the steps at each other at TLC; Miz is being all Svengali on Jimmy/Jey's wife Cameron/Naomi so Jimmy/Jey slaps him; Cena simply closes the laptop to shut up the anonymous GM but the angle still won't stay dead; Luke Harper continues the fine tradition of the IC champion being a fall guy with a belt; and Paul Heyman tells us Brock Lesnar only appears once a year for the same reason Christmas only comes once a year, meaning two months of promotion to release gas buildup from diverticulitis.
  #786  
Old 12-03-2014, 09:44 AM
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I was kinda digging the idea that they were going to keep the belt away from RAW/PPVs and only use it sparingly, but I think all it's doing is shining a light on the fact that there are a lot of superstar talents with nothing to do other than pursue a belt.

Cena, Zigs, Rollins, Ambrose, RKO are the top 5 in the company, and the top 5 pursuers of the belt, but without the belt (or multiple belts too) there's just nothing for them to do, and it's showing.

I still like my idea of a rotating writing staff, less PPVs, and changing belts/having major stuff happen at RAW. Rusev needs to lose and he needs to lose NOW and he needs to lose on RAW.

They need to create/utilize the network for soemthing big to happen and then NEVER show it on TV "You don't have the Network? You missed it. Wanna see it? Get the Network" do this with belt changes, heel turns, Rusev losing SOMETHING.
  #787  
Old 12-03-2014, 11:21 AM
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The problem with Rusev being US Champ is that while the angle builds some heat, it keeps him in the mid-card. No more build to being destroyed by SuperCena or challenging for the title but losing to put over someone else. Pretty much someone already there has to beat him for the mid-card title, gaining little in the process.

Of course, I'm going to go back to how they can freshen up Bray Wyatt and switch up his character a bit. Instead of this constant "I see evil in you" promo bit and then losing to people, if they had him win the IC or US titles and spend a year holding it through cheating and mind games, it would give him a new direction and a lot of boost. And it would mean more when someone beat him fair and square.

So.... I dunno, Wyatt-Rusev feud with Wyatt stealing the title by cheating on the second PPV and then retaining it the same way on the third?
  #788  
Old 12-03-2014, 12:37 PM
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WWE and wrestling shows in general don't really consult win-loss records to determine anybody's headline level. Ric Flair lost a shitload and still main-evented. Bray's in the same boat. If A-listers wind up in mid-card hell, it's because audiences don't care about them any more, and a new schtick won't help them. Remember the "Real Man" angle for William Regal? Neither does anybody else. I'm guessing there's currently no room at the top for Rusev, as all the A-listers are currently enmeshed in other storylines.
  #789  
Old 12-03-2014, 04:20 PM
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I think Flair has said he lost vastly more than he won in his career. Winning matches has never been required to get over. Austin largely developed his Stone Cold Steve Austin character to main event status in a long feud with Bret Hart, in which Austin lost to Bret every single time. It's all in how it's packaged.

There's always been divergent opinions on wrestling. I'd say the fans that would be happy seeing three hours of straight wrestling and no story lines are few and far between. But the fans that want to listen to poorly crafted promos and segments for 2 hours out of three are small in number as well.

WWE as recently as the Attitude Era was making everyone care about every belt, and every feud. From low card to main event. Now while people get engrossed with certain wrestlers and occasional feuds, largely they don't care about any of the belts, and many matches further no purpose whatsoever. I don't know enough to speculate on how to fix it, but it's obvious a lot of wrestlers exist for whom there is no role storyline or other wise.
  #790  
Old 12-03-2014, 05:26 PM
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The attitude era was when the belts started to not matter as much. Before then, you knew someone was going to hold it for at least 6 month, maybe years. Once the AE happened, it seemed like they got hot potatoed on a weekly basis.
  #791  
Old 12-03-2014, 09:39 PM
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The attitude era was when the belts started to not matter as much. Before then, you knew someone was going to hold it for at least 6 month, maybe years. Once the AE happened, it seemed like they got hot potatoed on a weekly basis.
That's not how I remember it so much really, I remember the belts mattered immensely in the territories and WWF up through the late 80s. In WCW in the 90s it felt like the World Title mattered off and on, but Hogan often held it without ever appearing on Nitro and that often reduced its importance. Aside from being part of Goldberg's initial streak I can't remember the U.S. Title ever mattering. Raven held it for a long time and usually never appeared any later than an hour into Nitro. The WCW Tag Title didn't seem to matter at all.

Oddly the Cruiserweight title did, and some of WCW's best wrestlers were involved in feuds for that belt. The TV title was kinda similar, and I suspect that may be because those titles showcased strong wrestlers who weren't involved in the nonsensical Hogan-sphere.

In WWE I think the Attitude Era (assuming we say it started around WM13) was a resurgence in what had been a trend since the early 90s of the IC and Tag Titles not meaning very much. I remember in the Attitude Era the IC title meant a lot, it featured heavily in Stone Cold's program with Owen and his ultimate feud with McMahon. Rock and several other big stars were feuding extensively for the IC, and the stakes felt pretty real. The Tag Titles actually seemed to also get play during the Attitude Era for the first time in ages really, since the Tag Titles had always been weak in WWF (they were often just a shade less prominent than the top singles title in many traditional territories, but I never felt that was true in WWF.) Now maybe in the later Attitude Era (I quit watching in 2001 or so, right after Vince bought WCW) the titles stopped mattering, but from 97-01 I remember them being very important and featured prominently in all the major feuds and almost everyone who had a title then is a Hall of Famer today.

Last edited by Martin Hyde; 12-03-2014 at 09:40 PM.
  #792  
Old 12-04-2014, 07:51 AM
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12/3 Lucha Underground

Bowannannnannnnhhhhh
Baaaaannnnnhhhhh


Omigod, Pimpanella. Mexico's version of Adrian Street. The audience seemed to know him and love him. He looked like an old woman stumbling around in the ring, and it was obvious Son of Havoc and Ivalise were overselling for him. He also looked like he genuinely fell a few times and didn't cushion himself or do anything to break his fall. He did get in some deceptively loud chest chops and at least knew where to position himself for spots. That singlet pulling up his ass crack probably didn't help his mobility much. Smapti's probably going to produce factoids that he won tough man competitions and eats razors for breakfast, but omigod his match looked really... awkward. Definitely entertaining, but awkward. It's also funny that Son of Havoc asked for a "Real Man" to compete against in a really dorky voice.

It seems like whenever LU does a promo vignette for a certain lucha, he's going to lose his next match. King Cuerno lost after his promo to Drago, then the vice versa happened to Drago. I like the way Cuerno doesn't do the high-flying lucha moves as much as the others, but acts more like the monster heel who shrugs off attacks and goes in for the kill. It usually doesn't work for cruiserweights, but it does for him.

Mil Muertes gets another squash over some local nobody. He's the LU version of Rusev, having the femme fatale valet to magnify his evil ways.

Sexy Star and Fenix had an excellent match with Chavo and Pentagon. The match started off a little low-key, with Chavo bullying SS and establishing reasons for the audience to hate him. Then the action slowly picked up in intensity and built up to an exciting finish. LU does a good job of making their women look as kick-ass as the men.

Mundo, Puma, and Big Ryck will compete for the cash-filled suitcase in a ladder match. I'm pretty sure Cuerto's goons are going to constantly interfere, but certainly Puma and Mundo will be doing stage dives on them from the top rung. Odalay!

Bowannannnannnnhhhhh
Baaaaannnnnhhhhh
  #793  
Old 12-04-2014, 12:26 PM
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Curse you, Knowed Out, for saying pretty much everything I was going to say.

To comment on Pimpinela Escarlata, he's an example of what's known in lucha libre as an exotico - basically, a drag queen who wrestles in a flamboyantly effeminate style, along the lines of a Gorgeous George or Tyler Breeze but turned up to eleven. (Striker using the Miz as a comparison was a good chuckle.) As far as I can tell the word exotico in this context colloquially means "queer", and many exoticos have in fact been homosexual men, but it's not a necessity and Wikipedia is silent on whether Mr. Escarlata is. Exoticos generally fall outside the classic heel/babyface paradigm and are an alignment all to themselves, and can wrestle as rudos or tecnicos as needed, but generally do so in a more comedic style than other luchadors. (Although the terms are largely synonymous with heel and babyface, 'rudo' can also define a brawler or heavyweight and 'tecnico' a technical wrestler.) I don't know much about Pimpinela's career (the name is Spanish for "Scarlet Pimpernel", BTW) except that he's been around since the '80s and has actually held the AAA Women's Championship, and held the mixed tag championship alongside a female wrestler.
  #794  
Old 12-04-2014, 09:17 PM
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Apparently, Dean Ambrose' hoodie was the #1 selling item at WWE on Cyber Monday. Of course, this doesn't mean he was the #1 merchandise seller, since Cena has a lot more items for sale. But it is good for Ambrose, who has been shunted out of the main event scene lately.
  #795  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:24 PM
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I got a kick out of Pimpanela, myself. (Disclosure: Bi male.) The nice thing is, for all that it was super campy and over the top, everyone embraced it--from Pimpanela through to the announcers to the crowd. The only one who didn't was Son of Havoc, and he was the heel and paid for it. Sure, Pimpy was old and slow, but I'm used to a little bit of that on this show as various lucha libre legends pass through to give it legitimacy. I guess I dig (based entirely on watching LU and generalizing from there) lucha libre's willingness to embrace and celebrate all sorts of things--minis, exoticos, ACTUAL SHOOT DRAGONS WHO HAVE BECOME MEN (see below), dudes who wear deer heads on their heads, whatever. Lucha seems to be a great place to let your freak flag fly, so to speak, and I'm totally down with that.

Anyway, you all missed the biggest point of this show, and I can't say it any better than Brandon Stroud over at Uproxx said it:

Quote:
OVER: DRAGO IS A SHOOT DRAGON YOU GUYS

This is the best part of the show. This is the best part of ANY show. Any show ever.
Go check it out. Plus, the Best/Worsts for Raw, Smackdown, and NXT are worth checking out as well. (Also, I promise I am neither Brandon Stroud nor employed by him.)
  #796  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:56 AM
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Good article LawMonkey. LU makes their luchas out to be mythological characters who come to the ring to prove their worth as fighters. So yes, Drago is an actual dragon, just like Muertes is actually a demon/ghost, Puma is an animist who grew up in the mean streets of LA (he's actually from Illinois), Cuerno is part panther, and so forth.

Pimpinella reminds me of the Exotic Adrian Street, a British wrestler from the 80's. He worked in the NWA in Florida, the Carolinas, and Texas. He had long blond hair he tied in tassels, wore lipstick and mascara, and pranced and skipped around the ring. He'd kiss his opponents on the lips and put them out with sleeper holds, then get his assistant Miss Linda to come in with a makeup kit so they could paint up the fallen opponent. The dude was otherwise straight; he just loved to freak people out.

I remember reading an interview with Jimmy Hart a short time ago, who managed Adrian Adonis in the WWF, who also had a flamboyantly gay gimmick. He said that type of thing can't be done today because it's not cool to mock gays any more. He might be right, since WWE is more mainstream and subject to criticism (and decreased revenue) if it looks like they're targeting a minority group.

Anyhoo, NXT produced another floater episode to whet our appetites for (R)Evolution next week. I hope Baron vs Bull doesn't turn out to be another 10-second match, but it probably will because it would be funny.

I'm wondering if Kevin Owens is going to be a heel since his vignettes talk about how other guys he wrestled in his indy career got chosen before him. Is he going to target them to vindicate himself? He's been a heel before, but not usually for long, because the audience liked his skill too much. Hideo and Finn debuted as faces, so maybe Owens will balance out the karmic scales.

I'm sure T-Cups is not liking his girl Bayley getting punked out again, but maybe she'll get revenge next week and WWE merchandising will start selling Tube Bayleys.
  #797  
Old 12-05-2014, 08:37 AM
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I'm sure T-Cups is not liking his girl Bayley getting punked out again, but maybe she'll get revenge next week and WWE merchandising will start selling Tube Bayleys.
I flew in late last night from an interview I had in Tampa, so I haven't watched NXT yet. I was getting a play-by-play from my girlfriend tho and she was telling me the shenanigans surrounding Bayley. Given that Charlotte is still the champ, and she saves Bayley all the time, I hope this doesn't change Bayley's character into some kind of obsessive fan-girl because I can see it going that route.

Regardless, I'll just be waiting until something snaps in that poor girls brain and she just goes apeshit on Sasha.

Her knee looked bad though! I wonder if she needs some kind of physical therapy, maybe involving having her legs straight out....
  #798  
Old 12-05-2014, 09:48 AM
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I dunno, Charlotte will probably be called up soon and Bayley won't, so that will leave her on her own for a while.
  #799  
Old 12-06-2014, 01:13 PM
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I have to say the buildup to Takeover 3: Season of the Witch has been... underwhelming. Aside from the Neville/Zayn feud, they haven't really developed the plot threads too much, which is weird considering that the writers of NXT get to film four one-hour episodes at a time and they have a whole month between tapings to plan it out, as opposed to the fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants main roster crew who have to book 6.5 hours of product every week, and sometimes three supercards in a six-week period. Maybe they're deliberately holding back on this one because they don't want the NXT show to outshine TLC. The rumor I've heard, though, is that Takeover 4: The Quest For Peace will take place in the Bay Area on WrestleMania week, and if that's true, I expect them to pull out all the stops for that one.

Anyway, here's my predictions based on the matches that have been announced (or not announced but likely to occur) at Takeover 3: Revenge of the Sith;

* Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn for the NXT Championship, Zayn will quit if he loses. Zayn obviously isn't going to quit - he has nowhere to go but up at this point, and this match is the natural blowoff for the whole "road to redemption" storyline they've been doing for him. He's going to beat Neville and it's going to be awesome. We may or may not see some clandestine interference by Tyson Kidd so he can get out of that "no more title shots for as long as Neville is champion" stipulation, thereby setting up Zayn vs. Kidd for Takeover 4: NXT Takes Manhattan.

* The Vaudevillians vs. the Lucha Dragons for the tag titles. I stand by the opinion I expressed a few months ago that the Lucha Dragons are transitional champions - the long-term goal is to build Kallisto as a singles performer so he can take the place Rey left on the main roster card, and putting him with Sin Cara II (and El Local/Ricardo Rodriguez before that) was done to help him transition from duos/trios wrestling in AAA to the WWE style. The Vaudevillians, meanwhile, are in a pretty golden position of being two accomplished singles wrestlers who work well together as a tag team, and are over with the crowd despite the fact that they're technically heels. I say they get the win and the belts here, and the Lucha Dragons are quietly broken up in the near future so Kallisto can start his singles run.

* Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks for the women's title. I was wrong last time when I predicted Charlotte would drop the belt to Bayley, but I'm gonna stick to my guns here and say that this is the show where she drops the belt. Charlotte is destined for the main roster sooner than later, and her heel-to-face transition has been managed just right to allow her to drop the belt to Sasha (possibly with an assist from Becky Lynch) and leave NXT on top before she shows up as a contender to the Divas title on the main roster. From there, the script practically writes itself to set up Sasha/Bayley for the title at Takeover 4: The Voyage Home.

* Hideo Itami and Finn Balor vs. the Ascension. This one has been a pretty slow build - almost too slow, IMO. We've seen very little actual ring action from Kenta or Devitt over the past few months, which means this match needs to be an absolute barnburner. These two need to show the WWE audience exactly why they became so highly acclaimed in Japan and on the indy circuit. Likewise, this is probably the last hurrah for the Ascension in NXT, and they need to put on the best show they possibly can to set up for their inevitable main roster debut. I give the victory in this one to Hideo and Balor.

* The debut of Kevin Owens. Up until just before he signed with WWE, the former Kevin Steen was playing a heel in Ring of Honor as a member of a Shield-like trio called "the Decade", whose gimmick was that they were guys who'd been in ROH since the beginning and had had enough of guys like AJ Styles or Jay Lethal or Chris Hero who took off for NXT/TNA and then came back when that didn't work out for them and expected to steal the spotlight once again. My feeling is that Kevin is going to debut as a heel here as well. His promos so far have been painting him as a blue-collar guy who decided that fighting and winning was the best way he could take care of his family - I could see that developing in an anti-hero sort of way where he's willing to do anything to anyone, damn the consequences, as long as he wins the match.

* Baron Corbin vs. Bull Dempsey - not confirmed, but likely to happen. Both of these guys have pretty much extensively wrestled squash matches thus far. This needs to be the first time they have a match that doesn't end quickly. I'd like to see Corbin immediately go on the offensive and give Bull the End of Days and a pin - which he kicks out of, then Bull takes him down, goes for the flying headbutt, and pins him - which is also kicked out of, and from there it becomes a test of endurance to see which one can keep going until the other one is worn out. I give the win to Corbin on this one - he's got the kind of tall and muscular build that makes Vince's pants feel funny, and the attitude to match, and he'll likely go far in the future.

There'll likely be at least one more match in addition to those, and I know of no rumors or expert speculation on what it might be. I'd like to see something with Marcus Luis to further build his new psycho babyface persona - possibly a rematch with Tyler Breeze? Corey Graves, who's been out of action for several months due to a concussion, is set to appear on the pre-show - he'll either be announcing his retirement, or making a comeback of some sort. Either way I look forward to it, because I was really enjoying him as a heel before his disappearance.
  #800  
Old 12-06-2014, 03:33 PM
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Your predictions sound on the money Smapti, but I'm not too sure about Callisto, mainly because of the presence of Los Matadores & El Torito in the main roster, and the possible return on Ray Mysterio. I don't think WWE wants to incorporate a lucha division per se, and if Callisto gets called up, then so would Sin Cara by association, and the latter probably doesn't want to return to midcard jobber hell.

The Vaudevillains may be over now, but they're a novelty act, and novelty acts eventually become tiresome. Besides, the mini Lucha Dragons need the opportunity to give that dastardly duo their just desserts.

I haven't seen Corey Graves in action. Maybe he had a steel plate put in his head to keep from getting any more concussions. Him starting the show by announcing his retirement would be a downer, so maybe it will be a trick like the one Mark Henry played on John Cena.
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