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  #301  
Old 08-18-2016, 11:39 AM
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Thanks for the rundown; I might pick it up for future entertainment.
  #302  
Old 08-18-2016, 07:32 PM
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47000 peak today. 3/4ths of the peak user base gone in under a week.
  #303  
Old 08-19-2016, 11:14 AM
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47000 peak today. 3/4ths of the peak user base gone in under a week.
I do wonder how unusual this is, though. I wonder how many of, say, Far Cry 4's peak player base was gone in a week, or Fallout 4.


Actually, there's something called steamcharts.com!

Far Cry 4 seems unfair, since it was also sold on uplay and so doesn't require steam.

Fallout 4 needs Steam, and had a player peak of 472k, in the November of release. In December, that had dropped to a peak of 201k, and then January down to 120k.

GTA 5 had a similar curve - peak of 360k, dropping to 215k the month after and then a sudden drop to 85k the month after.

No Man's Sky has that 212k peak, but the drops come by the day, not the month, are they, as SenorBeef says, already down to a 47k peak after only a week. I just don't think this game is going to be being played by more than 10k 2 months from now.


Still top of the sales chart though, so maybe I'm wrong.
  #304  
Old 08-19-2016, 11:51 AM
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Yeah, I mentioned upthread that a few months after release steamcharts just starts using weekly or monthly averages, not daily, so you can't see the same day by day data. But I do monitor this sort of thing just as an interest hobby - I like to see how games are received and how communities thrive and die. I can't go back to those other big hyped releases and post the daily data since it isn't there, but my memory of it is that games fall off about 8-15% for the first few days and then level off somehwere around 60-80% of their initial high losing a few percent a day over the next few weeks.

Depends on the type of game, too. A game with a linear story and not much replay value will fall harder after people beat it than games that are more open ended which often maintain their player base and grow.

As a comparison game we have full daily data on with a popular release, starbound, which is actually sort of similar in that it's an interplanetary exploration/survival game, the first week peaks were 61k, 52k, 50k, 46k, 42k, 40k, 43k, 44k. That's a much more typical pattern - losing a few percent a day, and even recovering a bit towards the end, the last two days being weekend days.

Another recent popular release: Total War: Warhammer's first week peaks are 112k, 104k, 97k, 90k, 92k, 99k, 93k. In comparison to these, NMS is a nose dive straight off a cliff losing 3/4ths of its player base in less than a week.

The NMS drop-off is actually worse than it looks, because day 2 and 3 were bolstered by bein Saturday and Sunday, days that typically receive a boost. If it were released on a Tuesday on PC as is typical, it would've fallen off much harder on wed/thurs/friday.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 08-19-2016 at 11:55 AM.
  #305  
Old 08-20-2016, 08:07 AM
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Those figures are worrying. I really hope Hello Games / Sony doesn't give up on this. The tech has so much potential, and it really seems like they needed another six months, if only Sony had the ability for developers to sell games early access I think it would have had a really different reception.

I'm going to buy this because I really want No Mans Sky 2 to exist and to be amazing, but I'd rather hold off on actually playing it until a few more patches and content updates. They're saying that base building will be coming as a free update, and PlayStation VR support seems like a no brainer as well. Hopefully it will get a big boost in numbers if it's released as a bundle with the PS VR, and will be in a more finished state then as well.
  #306  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:17 PM
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The game already sold about 10-20x as many copies as it really should've, so I don't think it needs more sales to justify a NMS 2, and throwing your money at a game that was overpromised and massively disappointing, where probably more money was spent on marketing it to people for a big day one launch than developing/improving the game seems like rewarding the exact wrong behavior to me. They've already got tons of people who bought it but aren't playing it because it isn't good enough - I don't understand what adding one more player to that category will do.

It seems to me like you're saying that you're going to buy it after knowing it was a disappointment... because it was a disappointment.... which seems among the stranger motivations I've seen.

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  #307  
Old 08-20-2016, 06:54 PM
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Personally, I'm addicted as hell to the game.

I've actually spent these last two days on one single moon. It's nearly airless, and has no plant life and damn little vegetation. What it does have, though, is lots of Korvax outposts and ruins. And tons of crashed ships, which is how I ended up on it in the first place.

I originally found a crash site, and decided to take that ship as my own. To be efficient, I took everything apart in my old ship, then took custody of the new one...

And then realized that I didn't have enough zinc to get the engines running on the new one.

There's lots of plutonium, iron, and aluminum on this rock, but no zinc deposits. Furthermore, since there's no vegetation to speak of, there aren't even any of those flowers that can be harvested for resources.

The only thing I could do was start walking. And walking. And walking. Eventually, I found three more crash sites, and I was able to salvage enough zinc from those to finally get a ship flying.

It felt like a game adaptation of The Martian. The moon even looks like Mars.
  #308  
Old 08-20-2016, 07:15 PM
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I'm finally playing it. Life means I only get an hour or two at a time, but am enjoying it so far.
  #309  
Old 08-21-2016, 07:26 PM
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It seems to me like you're saying that you're going to buy it after knowing it was a disappointment... because it was a disappointment.... which seems among the stranger motivations I've seen.
I'm going to buy it because I don't believe there was any intent to deceive. This game was clearly a passion project and from the interviews Sean and Hello Games really wanted to be able to deliver all the things they mentioned. That features had to be cut to make shipping date is somewhat understandable, and so far they've said there will be additional content patches for free.

Besides I'm not a starving student and it looks very pretty and like at the very least it will be interesting for 6-10 hours or so. I don't need to get 100 hours of gameplay out of a $60 game to make it worthwhile.

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  #310  
Old 08-21-2016, 07:38 PM
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Angry Joe's verdict: 5/10. Frankly I think it should be lower.

He's spot on on every criticism, and on the incredibly misleading statements and marketing on the game. He Dubs it: No Man's Sky? More like One Man's Lie.

Good review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTTPlqK8AnY

coremelt, you are operating under a huge misconception here if you really believe this:

Quote:
I'm going to buy it because I don't believe there was any intent to deceive. This game was clearly a passion project and from the interviews Sean and Hello Games really wanted to be able to deliver all the things they mentioned. That features had to be cut to make shipping date is somewhat understandable, and so far they've said there will be additional content patches for free.
I encourage you to give Joe's video a look. It's interspersed with actual statements by the lead dev, WEEKS before the game shipped which were outright lies.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-21-2016 at 07:40 PM.
  #311  
Old 08-21-2016, 08:13 PM
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I encourage you to give Joe's video a look. It's interspersed with actual statements by the lead dev, WEEKS before the game shipped which were outright lies.
I'm not going to watch a 36 minute video review, got better things to do. I'm a software developer myself, software development is hard, something like No Man's Sky is beyond my comprehension hard. From what I read they pulled a bunch of features near the end because of complex bug interactions and Sony wasn't willing to let them delay it again.

Shit happens, and if you've accepted a publishing deal you don't get to make the decisions about when to ship. Hello Games is not an independently wealthy software development house like Valve who can just ship stuff "when it's done". They say there are going to put back as many of the cut features as possible as free updates, I'll give them a chance to do that.
  #312  
Old 08-21-2016, 08:56 PM
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I'm not going to watch a 36 minute video review, got better things to do. I'm a software developer myself, software development is hard, something like No Man's Sky is beyond my comprehension hard. From what I read they pulled a bunch of features near the end because of complex bug interactions and Sony wasn't willing to let them delay it again.

Shit happens, and if you've accepted a publishing deal you don't get to make the decisions about when to ship. Hello Games is not an independently wealthy software development house like Valve who can just ship stuff "when it's done". They say there are going to put back as many of the cut features as possible as free updates, I'll give them a chance to do that.
I'm a software developer too. I would never tell my client that the software they are paying for has feature x and y two days before shipping a release version, when my software does not in fact have feature x or y.

THAT is the issue. Not that these things, dozens of features, aren't there, but that they said they were going to be there when they sure as hell knew they weren't, and wouldn't be, given the current state of the game, any time soon if ever. these aren't things they can patch in in a few weeks or even months. These are features that are going to take YEARS to put in the game... I'm doubting we'll see any substantial improvements aside from some of the UI stuff. Though polishing up some basic mechanics and adding more diversity in terms of what you are doing and crafting might go a long way.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-21-2016 at 09:00 PM.
  #313  
Old 08-21-2016, 09:15 PM
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I'm a software developer too. I would never tell my client that the software they are paying for has feature x and y two days before shipping a release version, when my software does not in fact have feature x or y.
Cite please that there are major gameplay elements that Sean was claiming were in the game two days before shipping that aren't?

I checked a couple of article's talking about "lies" by the developer, all the major gameplay feature stuff was mentioned four months before release. Four months out I can believe they intended to include some of that stuff but couldn't. If indeed they have already worked on a bunch of these features but just couldn't fix all the bug interactions then yes they can add them back in within months.

And really I don't care about what was promised, what I care about is, is the delivered result fun to play? Will I get a minimum of 20 hours of enjoyment out of it? Given the types of games I enjoy and what other people have told me, yes I will.
  #314  
Old 08-21-2016, 09:22 PM
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Cite please that there are major gameplay elements that Sean was claiming were in the game two days before shipping that aren't?

I checked a couple of article's talking about "lies" by the developer, all the major gameplay feature stuff was mentioned four months before release. Four months out I can believe they intended to include some of that stuff but couldn't. If indeed they have already worked on a bunch of these features but just couldn't fix all the bug interactions then yes they can add them back in within months.

And really I don't care about what was promised, what I care about is, is the delivered result fun to play? Will I get a minimum of 20 hours of enjoyment out of it? Given the types of games I enjoy and what other people have told me, yes I will.
What is there, by most critic's estimation is not worth $60.

Weird, but I personally tend to take umbrage at being sold a $60 product based on a pack of lies. YMMV, obviously.

My cite is the video and this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...on_a_big_list/

Even a lot of stuff that was mentioned 4 months ago it's just not stuff that anyone with a handle on a project would claim to be in the game - given the current state of the game, a lot of the features mentioned were CLEARLY not implemented in any way whatsoever.

Anyway, I know you have better things to do, so I won't engage you anymore. Just wanted to clarify, for the sake of other posters, that your original thoughts about you believing the devs were not attempting to deceive, to be an opinion you can't really support given the facts.

I hope you at least attempt to read a review or two. There are a LOT of issue with the game, from instability on PS4 to performance on PC, to UI being a mess, to the core mechanics being extremely boring and repetitive, to issues/bugs that make resource gathering a pain, etc, etc. I think you should at least wait for some of this stuff to be fixed. Otherwise, sincerely, I hope you enjoy the game.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-21-2016 at 09:27 PM.
  #315  
Old 08-21-2016, 09:31 PM
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My cite is the video and this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...on_a_big_list/
Yeah I read that post, there is an updated version of it here:
http://onemanslie.info/

In short, no he was not making outrageous claims two days before release. Second a bunch of stuff that was in that original Reddit post IS actually in the game, they just hadn't played long enough to see it. The website I linked includes corrections.

They claim to be adding in a bunch of new features as free updates, given how ambitious what they are trying to do is, I'm willing to give them a bit of slack and see what they come up with.
  #316  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:23 PM
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For us non-software people: I'm under the impression that it's fairly common in software to "just get the sale" by promising features for a release that's months away based more on hope than foresight. Is this the case?


I've wondered about many of these games which have lots of assets (procedural or not), whether it's most Ubisoft games or NMS. It seems that they're often shallow on gameplay but full of stuff. As AngryJoe said, they're wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle. Is it not simpler and cheaper to come up with some gameplay innovations than make so many assets or build an NMS-style procedural generation algorithm? It's like a shit buffet.
  #317  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:33 PM
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For us non-software people: I'm under the impression that it's fairly common in software to "just get the sale" by promising features for a release that's months away based more on hope than foresight. Is this the case?
It's common in business for salespeople to make promises they can't keep (or require hundreds of hours of custom development to keep).

It's a bit different in gaming. Word gets out pretty quick if a developer released a crappy game.

I find it's not that uncommon in gaming, however, for a game to get really hyped up and then fail to deliver what players expected. Particularly with these open-universe exploration games (Spoore comes to mind).
  #318  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:47 PM
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For us non-software people: I'm under the impression that it's fairly common in software to "just get the sale" by promising features for a release that's months away based more on hope than foresight. Is this the case?
Hello Games had never released a game of this scope before, thats a very different situation to Peter Molyneaux repeatedly promising outrageous things even after being the lead designer on dozens of games. Pending further evidence I'm willing to put down the promises earlier in the development cycle as over enthusiasm by an inexperienced development team rather than a cynical ploy to get sales.

Of course if they now stop working on NMS and give up on it, then thats different. If as they claim they deliver a bunch of content patches for free then personally I'd forgive them for earlier overly optimistic claims.
  #319  
Old 08-22-2016, 06:18 AM
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Yeah I read that post, there is an updated version of it here:
http://onemanslie.info/

In short, no he was not making outrageous claims two days before release. Second a bunch of stuff that was in that original Reddit post IS actually in the game, they just hadn't played long enough to see it. The website I linked includes corrections.

They claim to be adding in a bunch of new features as free updates, given how ambitious what they are trying to do is, I'm willing to give them a bit of slack and see what they come up with.
As late as the IGN interview he did which was only a month before release? He was talking about multi-player interactions. They never corrected this information either, or any of the other stuff they said would be in the game.

I can't fathom how you could possible think this is just some case of wishful thinking. They knew what they were shipping, and they knew what they were shipping wasn't what everyone thought this game would be. And no, this wasn't just because of over hyped expectations, but because of inaccurate descriptions of the product that were never corrected, and misleading marketing materials.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-22-2016 at 06:20 AM.
  #320  
Old 08-22-2016, 10:59 AM
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They say there are going to put back as many of the cut features as possible as free updates, I'll give them a chance to do that.
That's what I'm going to do to, I'm just not going to buy it until they've done it.
  #321  
Old 08-22-2016, 12:46 PM
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As late as the IGN interview he did which was only a month before release? He was talking about multi-player interactions. They never corrected this information either, or any of the other stuff they said would be in the game.
I've worked on a big big project where we had a team of five developers working for over a year on a feature. One month before release they decided to cut that feature because the publishers (read investors) weren't confident that feature could be delivered at all. Everyone on the team was devastated, but they were all reassigned to QC and finishing other features that could be delivered. Thats what happens. It doesn't matter if you are the game creator when the people paying the salaries say to you "no we're not paying any salaries after this date, give us a product or we sue you for breach of contract" then thats what you do.

Actions speak louder than words, so like I've said we will see if Hello Games follows up or not but it's too early to say if they were lying to get sales or they were just unrealistic and over enthustiastic about what they could deliver.

Last edited by coremelt; 08-22-2016 at 12:48 PM.
  #322  
Old 08-22-2016, 01:34 PM
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I've worked on a big big project where we had a team of five developers working for over a year on a feature. One month before release they decided to cut that feature because the publishers (read investors) weren't confident that feature could be delivered at all. Everyone on the team was devastated, but they were all reassigned to QC and finishing other features that could be delivered. Thats what happens. It doesn't matter if you are the game creator when the people paying the salaries say to you "no we're not paying any salaries after this date, give us a product or we sue you for breach of contract" then thats what you do.

Actions speak louder than words, so like I've said we will see if Hello Games follows up or not but it's too early to say if they were lying to get sales or they were just unrealistic and over enthustiastic about what they could deliver.
You're still not getting it.

Yes, absolutely this was a case of them being unrealistic, and almost certainly under a ton of pressure from Sony and press and gamers. This was a poorly managed project coupled with misleading marketing and unfiltered commentary by devs with way too much enthusiasm and not enough grounding.

Going by what Hello Games and the marketing said we would be getting a game that featured a much larger variety of animals, fauna, and worlds than what shipped. A huge array of varied stations on planets and off, which do not exist. A gigantic library of ships with different handling mechanics and even with specialized to different roles like science, resource gathering, combat, trade, etc. A nuanced economic system. Other varied ships that had a purpose in the world and did not just involve simple patrol routes, nor were all just copy paste trading ships so that you'd enter a hanger bay and there would be 4 ships with the same name and the same trader, for pity's sake! Not to mention the copy paste stations, some of which feature the same locked box with the same password to get into! That you'd be abel to interact and see other players, remote as that chance might be. That there would be secrets and a narrative that tuged you along the galaxy.

There was talk of factions who would war one another, and that you'd have the ability to join the fray and take sides. And an ending that did NOT, HAHAHA that would be so funny! Would Never be just a black screen and then nothing (but is absolutely that).

No, this stopped being over enthusiasm and then outright lies when they KNEW that none of this would happen, and they didn't tell ANYONE.

I can't imagine your clients were very happy about the decision in your own little anecdote (though I'm not seeing the similarity between it and No Man's Sky).

But I bet you the moment the feature was cut your higher ups fucking told the client, they didn't just wait until 1.5 came out and they'd be looking through the menus for the features wondering where they were.

And if they didn't, I'm guessing they are no longer your company's clients.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 08-22-2016 at 01:36 PM.
  #323  
Old 08-22-2016, 04:01 PM
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I still haven't played NMS, but from reading this thread a couple of things sparked a thought.

There's a fun little mobile game called Out There: Omega Edition. It's a 2D space-themed rogue-like. Ostensibly, it has nothing to do with NMS, but it has a couple of striking (to my mind) similarities:

- Much of the strategy centers on inventory management. The only difference between the ships is in the inventory slots, so there's a balance between collection and loading out your ship. Progress mostly consists of getting more inventory slots. Sometimes you have to take calculated risks between carrying fuel, repair material, modules, or trading goods.

- Collecting alien words. Traveling around, you occasionally receive a "you have leaned the X word for Y". And then when you meet with X, you can use that information to trade or get other benefits.

Beyond that, it's a randomly-generated space-themed game with combat and exploration elements, and where you travel from star to star looking for the next thing, though that's not exactly unique to either.

Seems I'm not the only one that's made the connection--that it's basically Out There 3D. 'Course, one's $60 and the other is $10...
  #324  
Old 08-22-2016, 10:24 PM
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I can't imagine your clients were very happy about the decision in your own little anecdote (though I'm not seeing the similarity between it and No Man's Sky).
Then you don't get it. The "clients" ARE the publishers / investors, they're the ones that make decisions to drop features because they control paying the bills. I would guarantee you 100 percent that there is 40%-90% complete code for dozens of features for NMS that already exists. It's pretty normal that at different milestone stages you and the clients (eg publishers) go through and decide what can't be shipped and needs to be cut in first release.

Yes there should have been better communication but we don't know exactly what happened between Hello Games and Sony so we don't know who to blame. Ideally NMS would have been in early access on steam for 1-2 years at $30, so it could grow organically like Minecraft did. But they needed the money to expand their team so they did a deal with Sony and so they are forced to compromise.

If Hello Games don't deliver any free significant content patches then I'll join you in crucifying them, until then I'm going to be patient.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:21 AM
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Then you don't get it. The "clients" ARE the publishers / investors, they're the ones that make decisions to drop features because they control paying the bills. I would guarantee you 100 percent that there is 40%-90% complete code for dozens of features for NMS that already exists. It's pretty normal that at different milestone stages you and the clients (eg publishers) go through and decide what can't be shipped and needs to be cut in first release.

Yes there should have been better communication but we don't know exactly what happened between Hello Games and Sony so we don't know who to blame. Ideally NMS would have been in early access on steam for 1-2 years at $30, so it could grow organically like Minecraft did. But they needed the money to expand their team so they did a deal with Sony and so they are forced to compromise.

If Hello Games don't deliver any free significant content patches then I'll join you in crucifying them, until then I'm going to be patient.
This is an extremely sensible comment which I agree with completely.
  #326  
Old 08-23-2016, 08:01 AM
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I'm still not quite clear on just what NMS was supposed to be doing that was new. Minecraft (and many, many other games) already has the kazillions of different procedurally-generated worlds (each of which is big enough that you'd never even finish exploring one of them). Spore already had the wacky creatures. Plenty of games have actual multiplayer, where you really can meet other players. Plenty of games have pretty graphics. And almost all games have actual gameplay beyond just the exploring and ooh-look-at-that.
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:19 AM
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I'm still not quite clear on just what NMS was supposed to be doing that was new. Minecraft (and many, many other games) already has the kazillions of different procedurally-generated worlds (each of which is big enough that you'd never even finish exploring one of them). Spore already had the wacky creatures. Plenty of games have actual multiplayer, where you really can meet other players. Plenty of games have pretty graphics. And almost all games have actual gameplay beyond just the exploring and ooh-look-at-that.
Perhaps the appeal/promise was in combining several elements together to get exploration of massive amounts of pretty procedurally-generated worlds with wacky creatures?

Part of the shallowness seems to stem from the fact that communicating "lots of possibilities" is simple and straightforward enough when you can (honestly enough) quote 18 quintillion possibilities and communicating "pretty graphics" is simple and straightforward enough with screenshots. Communicating good gameplay, on the other hand, seems difficult to do in a simple, straightforward way. One can always say "Innovative gameplay and complex systemic interaction with the environment" but that doesn't really assure players of anything. So developers seem to skew towards what can be communicated easily. It would be interesting to find ways to communicate info about gameplay in a simple, quick, non-bullet point-y way.
  #328  
Old 08-23-2016, 09:27 AM
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I'm still not quite clear on just what NMS was supposed to be doing that was new.
...ever watch Star Trek and think to yourself "I wanna be Captain Kirk?"

I want to explore strange new worlds, seek out new life, and civilization, and to boldly go where no one has gone before. That was the dream I had when I was a kid and it hasn't diminished now I'm 42 years old. Its not something most of us will be able to do in real life. I'd go be an astronaut: but only a handful of people in the world will every get the opportunity to be able to fly in space.

So I'll settle for a game. A game where I get to role-play as an explorer of worlds.

I love role-playing: and I think that the people that are role-players are probably the ones who are enjoying No Mans Sky the best. They can set aside obvious flaws in the game play and just get immersed in the universe. When I play Skyrim I play by my own personal rules: for example I never strike the first blow and only fight when attacked. I role-play my character (Palador, Holy Paladin) the same way I role-played him back when I used him the first time on a computer when I played Eye of the Beholder. And when I eventually get NMS I'll play to my own set of internal rules.

I could see myself really enjoying this game. (But finances at the moment rule out buying it just now.) The flaws have been pointed out by many people. But I've watched a few hours of gameplay on youtube. And I could imagine spending days exploring a single system of planets, just doing my own thing.
  #329  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:29 AM
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I'm still not quite clear on just what NMS was supposed to be doing that was new. Minecraft (and many, many other games) already has the kazillions of different procedurally-generated worlds (each of which is big enough that you'd never even finish exploring one of them).
Minecraft doesn't have procedurally generated creatures and plants. Spore was just lacking in so many ways, so for a lot of people this seemed to be fulfilling the potential that Spore promised.

I firmly believe that procedurally generated content is the future for games, but specifically hybrid systems where you have a huge or infinite procedural world and then you embed developer created plotlines and specific locations within the procedural universe. Imagine GTA VII where there is a huge procedurally generated city where you can go inside every building, and then the specific locations that are parts of missions are developer created overlaying the procedural city.

NMS will (probably) be remembered in future as a flawed game but a hugely influential one that raises the bar for procedurally generated content.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:48 AM
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Minecraft doesn't have procedurally generated creatures and plants. Spore was just lacking in so many ways, so for a lot of people this seemed to be fulfilling the potential that Spore promised.

I firmly believe that procedurally generated content is the future for games, but specifically hybrid systems where you have a huge or infinite procedural world and then you embed developer created plotlines and specific locations within the procedural universe. Imagine GTA VII where there is a huge procedurally generated city where you can go inside every building, and then the specific locations that are parts of missions are developer created overlaying the procedural city.

NMS will (probably) be remembered in future as a flawed game but a hugely influential one that raises the bar for procedurally generated content.
Systems such as what you describe are already being used though, in games like Elite Dangerous and the upcoming (at some point, I hope!) Star Citizen.
  #331  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:11 AM
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Spore was just lacking in so many ways, so for a lot of people this seemed to be fulfilling the potential that Spore promised.
Except that Spore already fulfilled the potential that Spore promised. It delivered exactly what it promised. It just turned out that what it promised wasn't actually very interesting, once you got down to playing it.

And I was already seeing articles about full-sized fully-detailed procedurally-generated planets a full two decades ago. The graphics wouldn't have been nearly as good, of course, but the algorithms behind the graphics already existed. The only reason it never went anywhere was because there was no game attached to the worlds. Just like NMS.
  #332  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:14 AM
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I firmly believe that procedurally generated content is the future for games, but specifically hybrid systems where you have a huge or infinite procedural world and then you embed developer created plotlines and specific locations within the procedural universe.
AIUI, this is exactly how Fuel came about.
  #333  
Old 08-23-2016, 04:44 PM
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Peaked at under 23000 today for a a loss of over 89% of the peak daily player base. In what, 10 days? Since this is an open ended game - it's not as if people are beating the 6 hour campaign and quitting having completed the game - that is extremely dire. I've never seen a game fall off half that fast before.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 08-23-2016 at 04:46 PM.
  #334  
Old 08-23-2016, 05:50 PM
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I read Sony is telling PS4 players if they turn it in for refund they can never play it again.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:49 PM
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Um, isn't that how a refund works? Or do you mean that their names are going to be put into some sort of database and if your name is on that list you won't be able to buy it again once they finish it?
  #336  
Old 08-23-2016, 06:57 PM
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Sony is apparently claiming that a digital refund involves revoking the license for your PS4, thus rendering the game unplayable in the future.

I haven't seen it confirmed by Sony. It sounds like the kind of thing somebody in a call center might pull out of their ass to keep up with quotas, but it also sounds like the kind of shitheel move a big corp would pull.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 08-23-2016 at 06:59 PM.
  #337  
Old 08-23-2016, 06:57 PM
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Um, isn't that how a refund works? Or do you mean that their names are going to be put into some sort of database and if your name is on that list you won't be able to buy it again once they finish it?
https://www.destructoid.com/sony-s-r...h-381520.phtml

In what world does getting a refund mean never be allowed to buy or play again? No, pretty sure that's not how a refund works.
  #338  
Old 08-23-2016, 09:44 PM
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Wait, that does actually mean they won't be allowed to buy it again? How does that make any sense at all? Why would any company want to prohibit customers from buying from them?
  #339  
Old 08-23-2016, 09:59 PM
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https://www.destructoid.com/sony-s-r...h-381520.phtml

In what world does getting a refund mean never be allowed to buy or play again? No, pretty sure that's not how a refund works.
OK that is completely inexcusable, and also stupid, both because of the negative word of mouth it will create and because it's pretty easy to get around it by creating a new PSN account linked to a different bank account. I can't imagine they are actually blocking the PS4 hardware, since that would effect people with second hand PS4's who just happen to end up with a system thats had a previous refund done on it.
  #340  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:19 PM
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Wait, that does actually mean they won't be allowed to buy it again? How does that make any sense at all? Why would any company want to prohibit customers from buying from them?
They're trying to stave off the logistical nightmare of handling a huge amount of refunds. The threat will reduce the refunds by some amount, and not having a mass panic/hassle among the retailers might be worth the cost to them in future sales.

Especially if you don't actually expect the game to ever become good, so people wouldn't want to buy it down the road nayway.
  #341  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 PM
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The threat will reduce the refunds by some amount, and not having a mass panic/hassle among the retailers might be worth the cost to them in future sales.
.
Maybe it will reduce the amount of refunds but it's a dumb way to handle it in terms of customer service. A much better way would be this "Yes sure we can process your refund but if you decide to keep NMS we can offer you 3 months of Free PlayStation Plus, or a voucher for $20 credit on the PSN store." In the end that would probably cost them less and create much less bad publicity.

Last edited by coremelt; 08-23-2016 at 10:38 PM.
  #342  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:00 AM
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https://www.destructoid.com/sony-s-r...h-381520.phtml

In what world does getting a refund mean never be allowed to buy or play again? No, pretty sure that's not how a refund works.
If you read the whole article you'll see that Sony have said this is not true and that you can buy it again. Seems like a disconnect between their customer service staff and the higher-ups.
  #343  
Old 08-25-2016, 01:01 PM
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We've hit the 2 week mark on PC. Yesterday's peak was 19055. Which gives us a loss of 91.13% of the peak player base in that time.

It's also dropped out of the top 20 games on steam. Currently behind Terraria.

It's understandable, though. How could you possibly compete with a procedurally generated survival/exploration game made by like 8 guys that's 5 years old without the full force of sony's marketing budget? hmm....

Last edited by SenorBeef; 08-25-2016 at 01:03 PM.
  #344  
Old 08-25-2016, 02:46 PM
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Of course, it's already sold a ton of copies, more than enough to justify the marketing spend. Not everyone will be getting refunds, and for many it'll just be another game that they've bought that they never get much playtime out of.
  #345  
Old 08-25-2016, 02:49 PM
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Oh sure, it's a wild success for no reason except that a lot of people decided to commit $60 to a game blind rather than simply wait a few hours. And no one will learn their lesson.

But it'll go down in history as one of the all time disappointments and a cautionary tale, the sort of thing that makes the top of lists on gaming sites in a decade.
  #346  
Old 08-25-2016, 03:16 PM
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But it'll go down in history as one of the all time disappointments and a cautionary tale, the sort of thing that makes the top of lists on gaming sites in a decade.
I bet it doesn't. I'm remembering World of Warcraft, which was all but unplayable on release, and has similarly berated everywhere as not being what was advertised. It seems to have done well for itself in the long run.

I'm seeing an awful lot of online criticism for the game that appears to come from folks not actually playing it: in particular, a lot of comments about the game not having various things (rich worlds of lifeform variety, space combats, ship variety) that it actually does have--they're just not available until you've passed some technology bars (particularly the various hyperdrive types) and moved closer to the center of the galaxy. At about 25 hours in, the game is very different than it was when I started.

It sort of matters what Hello Games does from here. If they continue to add content (atypically, maybe more _early_ game content), I suspect that word of mouth will start bringing the players back around over the next months, and the game may have years of life left. If they write it off, it'll end up in the dustheap.
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:35 PM
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A lot of the most detailed criticisms actually come from people who've played the game extensively. Like this and this.

Your idea that it's people who don't have the game are the ones that are critical is clearly disproven - if most people who had the game were having fun with it, it wouldn't have fallen off a cliff and lost 92% of its players in two weeks.

As for World of Warcraft, I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. I was actually there, on day one, with that game. And everyone was thrilled with it. The servers were so packed that Blizzard had to spend a ridiculous amount of money renting out tons of server providers on day one because they had several million more people playing than anticipated. And the game worked fine and delivered what was promised. I don't know what backlash you're referring to.

And WoW grew and grew - people were hooked on the game and played it for years obsessively. That's exactly the opposite of something like NMS, where we've lost 92% of the peak player base. It seems like the worst comparison to pick.

But no, I'm thinking more like Spore, which was always topping "most disappointing games" or "most overhyped games" list for a decade. I think NMS will be notorious down the road in the same way that Spore is now.
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:43 PM
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Woops, my second post goes to a link where the content was deleted. Mirrored here.
  #349  
Old 08-25-2016, 04:20 PM
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I agree with SenorBeef about WoW. It was terrific and a huge success from the get-go, only gaining players, never losing them until many years after initial release.

"Baby's First Elite Dangerous" (Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation fuckin' brilliant review of No Man's Sky.)

ETA: This game's failure to reach expectations or, you know, provide compelling gameplay, seems to me to have surpassed Spore by miles. Spore at least had that really fun creature-editor that you could use to make your own beasties to share and populate in other people's universes.

Last edited by Knorf; 08-25-2016 at 04:23 PM.
  #350  
Old 08-25-2016, 05:41 PM
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As for World of Warcraft, I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. I was actually there, on day one, with that game. And everyone was thrilled with it. The servers were so packed that Blizzard had to spend a ridiculous amount of money renting out tons of server providers on day one because they had several million more people playing than anticipated. And the game worked fine and delivered what was promised. I don't know what backlash you're referring to.
In my universe, attempting to log in produced "queues" that lasted for hours; getting logged in would often crash you back out within a minute or two, places where more than a couple hundred people gathered would stop responding or monster groups would "teleport in", and you never really knew whether you'd be able to loot something or not. Usually you'd "kneel" to pick something up and freeze for minutes at a time. Most of this stuff took weeks of patching to make work. It was being berated non-stop in the newsgroups and their own forums.

The fact that you can't remember this, I think, proves my point: if NMS can make the game meet more people's expectations soon, nobody will care about the first weeks.

And if not? What do I care? I'm enjoying the game. If someone had told me exactly what I was getting, I'd have paid $60 for it. And they pretty much did, so I did.
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