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  #701  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrick View Post
There's no need to play DK - partner is hardly going to duck the Ace and if declarer has it there's still the hope that partner can get in with a trump and play a Diamond before declarer can get all his Diamonds away.
I'm with Quartz on playing the KD. If you know the correct defence, don't rely on partner to be on the same page if you can force him to do the right thing. Partner cannot stop declarer discarding on the spades, unless declarer is dumb enough to attempt to play trumps first and is missing the AH.
  #702  
Old 06-02-2018, 03:35 PM
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Here's another one. You are North and vulnerable and partner opens 1H. West is non-vulnerable and overcalls 2S (weak jump overcall.) You hold S: Q975 H: K6 D: J4 C: AKQ95. What do you bid? East will overcall 4D.

Full hand:

Code:
S: Q975 H: K6 D: J4 C: AKQ95
S: KT8642 S: J H: JT3 H: 98 D: 8 D: KQT97653 C: 762 C: 84
S: A3 H: AQ7542 D: A2 C: JT3
7N is, of course, cold, as are 7C and 7H but can you reach any of them?

Last edited by Quartz; 06-02-2018 at 03:37 PM.
  #703  
Old 06-02-2018, 03:56 PM
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I play 2 over one forcing. You need some aggressive bidding. At IMP's or rubber I wouldn't be ashamed to play the small slam... you do need a trump break after all (68%)

1H 2C
2H 3H
3S 4C
4D 5C
5NT 6H
7H

5C - you can count 11 tricks so don't sign off
5NT - partner has very good clubs and something else. Maybe the king of trumps?
6H - one of the top three
7H - worst case you need to drop or finesse the club queen
  #704  
Old 06-02-2018, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz
Here's another one. You are North and vulnerable and partner opens 1H. West is non-vulnerable and overcalls 2S (weak jump overcall.) You hold S: Q975 H: K6 D: J4 C: AKQ95. What do you bid?
3C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K364 View Post
I play 2 over one forcing. You need some aggressive bidding. At IMP's or rubber I wouldn't be ashamed to play the small slam... you do need a trump break after all (68%)

1H 2C
I think you are missing the fact that opps overcalled 2S over 1H.
  #705  
Old 06-02-2018, 05:23 PM
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Amarone - d'oh!
  #706  
Old 06-02-2018, 05:40 PM
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ok. Try again.

Code:
1H..2S..3C..4D
P...P...4H..P
4NT
At this point, presumably playing RKB, South shows the 2 missing top controls. North bids 5NT... why not? Since 5NT guarantees all the top controls South thinks "I hope my clubs run" and bids 7 hearts or 7 no trump.

Again, pretty optimistic bidding.
  #707  
Old 06-03-2018, 04:05 AM
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Why is South going to pass over 4D? And why is North going to bid 4H when South might only have four hearts?

Perhaps a double by South might be best - an improvised cue bid agreeing clubs? But I don't see how to get to 7C from there.

Last edited by Quartz; 06-03-2018 at 04:06 AM.
  #708  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:40 AM
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What North bids after 1H - 2S depends a lot on what partnership agreements are - depending on system you can make a case for 3C, 3S, 2NT, 3NT or Double.

I'd probably double - 3C would show six Clubs and (usually) fewer points, planning to bid no-trumps if partner responds in Diamonds. If East has the nerve to bid 4D over the double, South has a problem - his hand looks slammish opposite a strong hand with Clubs, but how does he investigate?

The best I can come up with is a lucky accident:

1H - 2S - Dble - 4D
P - Dbl(1) - P - 5C(2)
P - 5D(3) - P - 6C(4)
P - 6H(5) - P - 7H(6)

1) - Could be a juicy penalty if partner has 4 Diamonds and can leave it in
2) - Sorry, I don't really have Diamonds,
3) - Cue bid, slam interest
4) - Nothing to show in Spades or Hearts, could gamble 5NT if it was natural
5) - I forgot to show my 6-card suit, and I'm worried about a Diamond ruff at trick 1
6) - Partner bid 6 without the KH
  #709  
Old 06-03-2018, 10:29 AM
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I think you've got an extra or missing Pass in there after the 4D bid. (Note that 4D is only 2 or 3 down, a very good sacrifice even if doubled.)
  #710  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:13 AM
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lemme try again

Last edited by K364; 06-03-2018 at 11:15 AM.
  #711  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrick View Post
6) - Partner bid 6 without the KH
If you were North, would you not be worried about a spade ruff at trick 1?
  #712  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Why is South going to pass over 4D? And why is North going to bid 4H when South might only have four hearts?

Perhaps a double by South might be best - an improvised cue bid agreeing clubs? But I don't see how to get to 7C from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
I think you've got an extra or missing Pass in there after the 4D bid. (Note that 4D is only 2 or 3 down, a very good sacrifice even if doubled.)
In post 703 I said that I play 2 over 1 game force, which includes 5 card majors but I forgot to restate that for my new auction.

Let me clarify my auction:

Code:
N      E      S      W
              1H     2S
3C(1)  4D     P(2)   P
4H     P      4NT(3) P
5H(4)  P      7H
(1) If I could bid at the 2 level it would be forcing for one round and we might get out below game. But this is at the 3 level and we are committed to bidding game.
(2) Forcing pass because of the game force in effect.
(3) RKC 1430
(4) 2 key cards

As merrick said, North has a few options for his first bid. For example, vulnerable against not, most match point players would bid 3NT. My auction shows a way to get to the grand... I'm not saying it has to be bid this way. I would be interested in seeing the results for the room. I'm betting that only some got to the small slam and nobody to the grand.
  #713  
Old 06-03-2018, 12:26 PM
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Only one pair - Scottish internationals - bid to a slam, and the slam was 6H, making +1. Everyone bid to the game in hearts except one EW who bid to the doubled game in Diamonds, going down for 800 - a fine sacrifice against the slam, but not against the 4H game (which scored +3 for 710).
  #714  
Old 06-05-2018, 05:34 PM
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I'm not surprised - with the bidding at the 4 level by opener's second bid there's no time to explore and while South has a nice hand with lots of controls his suit needs support and it's hard to justify anything more than 4H over 4D. And if South signs off in 4H, North is unlikely to push on with only two-card support and no controls in Spades or Diamonds.
Maybe if North can bid a game-forcing-by-high-card-strength 3C on the first round, as in K364's attempt.

You were quite right about my sequence - it's more an attempt to construct a plausible story than bidding I'd actually recommend.
  #715  
Old 06-06-2018, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrick View Post
I'm not surprised - with the bidding at the 4 level by opener's second bid there's no time to explore and while South has a nice hand with lots of controls his suit needs support and it's hard to justify anything more than 4H over 4D. And if South signs off in 4H, North is unlikely to push on with only two-card support and no controls in Spades or Diamonds.
Maybe if North can bid a game-forcing-by-high-card-strength 3C on the first round, as in K364's attempt.
I prefer 3C on the first round to show the strength and location of values. An issue with double is that it shows values in both minors. Over 4D, partner is good enough to bid 4H, after which you will be happy to have Kx support. However, it is still tough to make another move with two losers in each of opponents' suits. You know partner has some values there, but it's difficult to find out if it's enough. The only try available is 5H. If you do bid that, partner will bid 6H with all those aces, but I see no route to 7. As someone said up-thread, I am not too concerned about missing a grand needing a 3-2 break and no opening ruff.
  #716  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:53 AM
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I just had a minor disaster. Partner couldn't stop reprimanding me. Since we learn from harsh words, I thought I should post here and hope for more abuse.
♠ 73
-
KQJT84
♣ T7542
Vulnerable against not at IMP scoring, partner deals and opens One Spade. I wasn't sure how to respond to this but RHO overcalls Two Hearts so I made a negative Double.

The auction continued Pass, Three Clubs, Pass, and I Passed. LHO balances with Three Hearts and this is Passed around to me.

What do you call now? If you bid, LHO will call Four Hearts and that is Passed back around to you again.
  #717  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:13 PM
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Why are you not raising clubs? You have five card support for partner and a fit and a void in the opponents' suit. A single raise is fine. If partner fails to bid on after 4H that is their choice. I'm expecting partner to have five+ spades and four+ clubs.
  #718  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:49 PM
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I also felt like my hand seemed almost "better" than a Pass over 3C, and a 4C bid would have worked better. But partner approved of this Pass.

Anyway, assume teammate passes 3C in your absence and suddenly gets a severe bee-sting allergy. You are drafted to finish the auction.

Last edited by septimus; 06-06-2018 at 12:50 PM.
  #719  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:31 PM
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I'm sorry, but at this point I'm double-guessing partner. If partner had been 5-0-4-4 then partner should have bid diamonds or raised clubs.
  #720  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:07 PM
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Partner didn't double 4H, so I think they are making. If partner has good clubs, you'll make 10-11 tricks in clubs but I'm just going to pass. Could be a disaster.

With 20/20 hindsight, you should have passed over 2H - a negative double of 2H should have more substance. Your hand has distributional playing strength - pass first and back in with diamonds if you can later.

If the opponents have 10 hearts between them, they are bidding in a very devious way.
  #721  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:10 AM
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Think your partner needs to pipe down, as if they had anything to say a competitive double was required over 3H. As this did not appear, and this is not a forcing pass situation that most people would recognise, then pard's giving you no help so you have no bid.

Don't mind an immediate 4C raise but a delayed raise seems very unsound just on general bidding principles. Either pass or bid 4, don't like backing in with 4 after you've permitted the 3H bid.

Anyhow, seen as pard is mad as hell and it was IMPs, I take it game was missed?
  #722  
Old 06-07-2018, 11:04 AM
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Partner's hand:
♠ KQ962
KT
63
♣ AK63
Opponents had no singleton. We get five tricks in 4HX and eleven tricks in 5C or 5D. 4SX was lucky to escape for down one.

Our auction was
S W N E
- - - 1♠
2♥ X Pass 3♣
Pass Pass 3♥ Pass
Pass 3♠ 4♥ Pass
Pass 4♠ Pass Pass
X Pass Pass Pass

It seems possible that partner bid 3C with just three, no? Something like Kxxxx xx Axx KJx

My 3S bid was OK, I think. We play 5-card majors so having declined to support spades twice, Partner can be sure I have only two. I must have fair clubs also, I think, or I'd have passed 3H.

But then 4H came back around to me. What do I do? Partner insists I should double 4H, but this seems wrong to me. I bid 4S thinking this was the "consistent" bid. — what if 4S is our best shot for game? (Or is it silly to think that way since I'd already given up on game?)

Partner insisted that 4S was my 4th best call at that point, behind X (best), 5C and 5D (odd that he didn't consider pass). The fact that he passed 4H instead of X or 4S might suggest that he'd welcome a club bid by me.
When I did bid 4S and it got doubled I had a chance to save the day by pulling to C, but I failed. to do so. Both then and when I bid 4S I was gritting my teeth, "knowing" my calls were wrong but somehow feeling locked in by a sense of "consistency."

Bidding 4C at once over his 3C might have been an overbid, I think, but at least it would have made any subsequent bidding better informed.

Go ahead — flagellate me.
  #723  
Old 06-07-2018, 11:17 AM
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Yes, partner could have 3 clubs. But he had 4 good ones and 15 points (he probably discounted the heart king)

This is a very strange result - opponents had half the deck and an 11 card fit in hearts but could only take 8 tricks in hearts. You won't see that very often.
  #724  
Old 06-07-2018, 11:38 AM
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Yeah 4S is not right but your partner is not facing up to his responsibilities there - he's shown a minimum opener with 5 spades and 3+ clubs, he's stronger than that but neglected to show it two times, then thinks you're the one who should be doubling the final contract [for takeout, presumably].

I'd say it was time to start dishing out some reprimands of your own, Septimus, but you shouldn't really be clashing over a murky sequence like this, tbh. Easy to mis-evaluate hands like this in context so it's not the sort of thing that really merits a sit-down with partner.
  #725  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:14 PM
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We missed 7NT last night:

RHO opened 3H. Having 13 HCP and a singleton heart, I doubled. I was 5-1-3-4. LHO passed. Partner bid 4D and I passed, 4D being a minimum response. We went 1 down thanks to a 5-1 trump distribution. Afterwards I found that my partner had 17+ HCP, including the Ace and King of Hearts.

Here's another one for you:

Partner held S: KJTxxx H: KQxxx D:xx. We are playing 3x weak 2s, so 2D indicates a 6-card diamond suit. Do you open? How do you plan the bidding?
  #726  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
We missed 7NT last night:

RHO opened 3H. Having 13 HCP and a singleton heart, I doubled. I was 5-1-3-4. LHO passed. Partner bid 4D and I passed, 4D being a minimum response. We went 1 down thanks to a 5-1 trump distribution. Afterwards I found that my partner had 17+ HCP, including the Ace and King of Hearts.

Here's another one for you:

Partner held S: KJTxxx H: KQxxx D:xx. We are playing 3x weak 2s, so 2D indicates a 6-card diamond suit. Do you open? How do you plan the bidding?
Unless partner was something like 1-2-5-5, I'd think a NT response was correct for the first hand. It would be a little hard to fault him for only bidding 3 NT. Even with 17 HCP, he'd have to envision you with 18 HCP to make a small slam. Sometimes preempts do just what they're supposed to do.

But 4D can't be the right response with with 17 HCP. At the very least he can bid 4H telling you to pick the suit if he doesn't want to be in NT and had no suit to mention.

For the other hand assuming I'm dealer or second seat after a pass, I'd open based on the rule of 20 (HCP + length of two longest seats) definitely NV and probably even V against NV. That hand should definitely not be opened with any kind of weak 2 bid (or Flannery if you were thinking of something like that.)
  #727  
Old 06-16-2018, 03:53 AM
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On the first hand, I'm with OldGuy - partner has no business bidding only 4D with 17 HCP. He'd do that with 7 HCP.
If he has only 4 Diamonds he presumably had no 5-card suit, so his bid is 4H (if he sees slam potential and can support Spades over a 4S response) or 3NT (otherwise).

(On a side-issue, I'm mildly interested in how he managed to go down in 4D. If 7NT was on, there can't have been any black-suit losers, there's no Heart force with AK opposite a singleton, and even if opener's partner started with D KQTxx, he's only making 3 of them)

For the second hand, it depends on seat and vulnerability. If I'm first or second to speak and I'm playing Michaels cue-bids, I probably pass first round - the hand has enough playing strength to come in with 3C/3D on the second round. In 3rd/4th seat I open 1S planning to rebid 2H (and hope I don't push opponents into a making 3C/3D).
  #728  
Old 06-16-2018, 09:08 AM
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Same as Merrick I'd pass 1st and 2nd and await developments - although 1S is OK in first. Cannot be opened a weak 2 under any circumstances.
Sitting 3rd I think I'd venture 2D multi, as partner can show a H or a S raise, but if that was not available I'd go 1S. Boss suit n all.

1S in fourth as well. Playing weak 2s you can open 2S in fourth to show opening hand strength with 6 spades that just wants to place the contract at this level, and good expectation of making. This hand is clearly too shapely, lacking in strength for that, though.
  #729  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:39 PM
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On the first hand, if he bid diamonds with only 4 then he must be 3343 or have 4 hearts. Given that, unless you were vulnerable against not, I would say that passing the double is a decent option. If you play trumps at the first opportunity, they may be held to 5 tricks (even if they make 6 tricks, at equal vulnerability the penalty still beats game).

I don't know for sure without seeing the hand, but I might bid 3S over 3H rather than double. If you double you are unlikely to get to a 5-3 spade fit.

On the second hand, my vote also goes to pass and await developments.
  #730  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:56 AM
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We had some bidding failures in London yesterday. (No, I didn't jet over to the U.K. Invitational Pairs Championship — I'm speaking of Room #700 (London server) at playok.com.) I'm thinking of e-mailing my partner but first want to be fortified with SDMB opinion!

We play 2 Clubs as the only forcing opener and have procrastinated on firming up responses. Partner makes a positive response to my 2C with a weakish suit while, in the absence of detailed agreement, I lean toward "2D semi-automatic." At one point we agreed on some variation of "Herbert second negative" but I don't think either of us remembers the details.

septimus is South on each hand.
(A)
♠ AQ54
♥ AKQ
♦ AQ7
♣ A74

♠ K83
♥ 95
♦ J5
♣ KQT632

I passed in 2nd chair and bid 3C over partner's 2C. Partner jumped to 6NT. Grand slam is excellent but the playok field is so weak we got 5.5 imps for 6NT. In the post mortem, partner mentioned my passed-hand status as a reason finding 7 would be difficult.

I'm a conservative bidder and wouldn't have had much less for my 3C positive response. Do any of you get to the Grand?

(B)
♠ Q7
♥ 87
♦ 8752
♣ QJ965

♠ A42
♥ AKQJT4
♦ A9
♣ K7

The auction with opponents silent was 2C - 2D - 2H - 3C - 3H - Pass.
Four Hearts is excellent. I think 2S, if anything, would be Herbert 2nd Negative, no? If so, does partner's 3C establish a game force? Did I underbid? Should partner with a couple of queens and a useful doubleton have bid 4H? It was after this hand that partner announced "Last round. One of is zigging while the other is zagging."

(C)
♠ AT6
♥ 42
♦ Q82
♣ KQ862

♠ KQ
♥ AT76
♦ T965
♣ AT7

North opened 1C, I responded 1D (is 1H or 2NT better?), Partner bid 1NT, I jumped to 3NT. Pass, Pass, and East doubled. Pass, pass, partner pulls to 4C. Nine tricks are made in either clubs or NT. It would never have occurred to me to pull the double.

(D)
♠ AKT965
♥ AT96
♦ 32
♣ J

♠ 3
♥ K852
♦ QJ65
♣ KQ97

This hand may be less interesting bidding-wise; I'll mention it to partner for a different reason.

Partner opened 1S; I responded 2C(*); partner rebid 2H; I bid 4H (though wondering if 3H was ample). West doubled. At trick 1, East underleads his Ace of Diamonds to West's singleton King! This was almost the only way to beat 4H. A 2nd-round ruff by West's Qxx would be with his natural trump trick, and a 3rd-round uppercut ruff would fail.

(* - Best? Normally the suit above the singleton should be avoided.)

Can we agree that East-West were using Skype or some other private channel to cheat? playok.com makes it easy to check stats, and I see this East West usually play as partners and do much better as partners than when playing with others.
  #731  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:04 AM
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NETA: I see that (C), with its strange double, was played against the same cheating pair as (D). With Skype, they would have thought they had easy tricks in hearts -- neither of us had shown 4 hearts for a double-stopper (not that it turns out to be needed in NT).
  #732  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:24 AM
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Your partner should not have jumped to 6 NT in the first hand. There's plenty of bidding space for Blackwood.

On the second auction, it should have started 2C-2D-2H-2N and you can then bid either 3N or 4H.

On the third auction, partner has only a 5 card suit and 11 HCP so should have passed. You bid 1H or 1N. If you bid 1H, partner bids 2C, you bid 2D, then partner bids 3N. Over 1N partner will bid 2N and whether you go on to 3N is up to you.

A partnership who play together regularly will do much better than random pickups so I wouldn't read anything into it. And West did double.
  #733  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:30 AM
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Here's a query for y'all.

Partner opens 2C. I am holding S: xx H:xxx D:x C: AJT98xx. All the xs are very low cards so basically there are no entries into my hand apart from clubs. I respond 2D. Partner rebids 3D. Should I bid 3N or 4C? I bid 4C and partner pulled to 4N, I rebid 5C and gave up after partner bid 6N which went down. 5C, of course, made handily.
  #734  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
We play 2 Clubs as the only forcing opener and have procrastinated on firming up responses. Partner makes a positive response to my 2C with a weakish suit while, in the absence of detailed agreement, I lean toward "2D semi-automatic." At one point we agreed on some variation of "Herbert second negative" but I don't think either of us remembers the details.
Cheaper minor (usually 3C, of course) as a second negative is more common.

Quote:
♠ AQ54
♥ AKQ
♦ AQ7
♣ A74

♠ K83
♥ 95
♦ J5
♣ KQT632

I passed in 2nd chair and bid 3C over partner's 2C. Partner jumped to 6NT. Grand slam is excellent but the playok field is so weak we got 5.5 imps for 6NT. In the post mortem, partner mentioned my passed-hand status as a reason finding 7 would be difficult.
Nonsense. It should not be dificult to find out about KQ clubs and another king. The challenge is finding out about the sixth club for the 13th trick. If you play specific kings response to RKCB, you can find out that partner has KS, in which case you might bid the grand, which will make if:
  • partner has 6 clubs
  • partner has 3 spades and they are 3-3
  • partner has JS
  • diamond finesse is on
  • or spade/diamond squeeze if you prefer that to taking a diamond finesse

Quote:
♠ Q7
♥ 87
♦ 8752
♣ QJ965

♠ A42
♥ AKQJT4
♦ A9
♣ K7

The auction with opponents silent was 2C - 2D - 2H - 3C - 3H - Pass.
Four Hearts is excellent. I think 2S, if anything, would be Herbert 2nd Negative, no?
Yes
Quote:
If so, does partner's 3C establish a game force?
Yes
Quote:
Did I underbid?
No. As you were in a game-forcing auction, there is no need to jump around.

Quote:
Should partner with a couple of queens and a useful doubleton have bid 4H?
Yes

Quote:
♠ AT6
♥ 42
♦ Q82
♣ KQ862

♠ KQ
♥ AT76
♦ T965
♣ AT7

North opened 1C, I responded 1D (is 1H or 2NT better?), Partner bid 1NT, I jumped to 3NT. Pass, Pass, and East doubled. Pass, pass, partner pulls to 4C. Nine tricks are made in either clubs or NT. It would never have occurred to me to pull the double.
1D or 1H is partnership style, but I would bid 1H. With weaker hands I respond 1H even with 4 hearts and 5 diamonds as otherwise I might not get the chance to show my hearts (e.g. LHO bids spades and RHO raises).

Whether to open the North hand or not is also a matter of partnership style. Either way, by opening and then bidding 1NT, he has decided it is an opening hand and should not pull a double.

Quote:
♠ AKT965
♥ AT96
♦ 32
♣ J

♠ 3
♥ K852
♦ QJ65
♣ KQ97

This hand may be less interesting bidding-wise; I'll mention it to partner for a different reason.

Partner opened 1S; I responded 2C(*); partner rebid 2H; I bid 4H (though wondering if 3H was ample). West doubled. At trick 1, East underleads his Ace of Diamonds to West's singleton King! This was almost the only way to beat 4H. A 2nd-round ruff by West's Qxx would be with his natural trump trick, and a 3rd-round uppercut ruff would fail.

(* - Best? Normally the suit above the singleton should be avoided.)

Can we agree that East-West were using Skype or some other private channel to cheat? playok.com makes it easy to check stats, and I see this East West usually play as partners and do much better as partners than when playing with others.
I think 2C is correct in ACOL. You do not want to open the suit above a singleton, but responding is different. Biddng 2C leaves open the possibility of finding a fit in any suit.

Defence was highly suspicious. Any way to report it to playok?
  #735  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:41 AM
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Here's a query for y'all.
This must be directed at residents of the south of the United States. I qualify.

Quote:
Partner opens 2C. I am holding S: xx H:xxx D:x C: AJT98xx. All the xs are very low cards so basically there are no entries into my hand apart from clubs. I respond 2D. Partner rebids 3D. Should I bid 3N or 4C? I bid 4C and partner pulled to 4N, I rebid 5C and gave up after partner bid 6N which went down. 5C, of course, made handily.
I think 4C is correct. What do you play as the requirement for an immediate 3C bid? You have at least 5 playing tricks opposite a 2C opener. You are going to game. Maybe after 2C - 3C - 3D - 4C - 4NT - 5C partner would get the message. Mind you, I do not know what caused partner to bid 6NT after s/he was happy to settle in 4NT and all you did was remove that to 5C. There must be holes in the club suit because if you had long, running clubs, you would have bid slam.
  #736  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:48 AM
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Defence was highly suspicious. Any way to report it to playok?
playok.com is very informal and possibly full of cheats. (How are other sites? BridgeBase ?)

I could send messages to the various people playing with them and warn then. Or just click the box that prevents them from sitting at my table in future.
  #737  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:49 AM
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Partner had a singleton club.
  #738  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:53 AM
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Or just click the box that prevents them from sitting at my table in future.
This. You have no evidence.
  #739  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:26 AM
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playok.com is very informal and possibly full of cheats. (How are other sites? BridgeBase ?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an admin on BBO
To report a cheater, drop us an email at abuse@bridgebase.com

What actually happens depends considerably on a few factors.

1. If the report is about cheating in a game that issues masterpoints

We take a quick look at the report itself and if there seems to be a hint of smoke, or if the person reporting the issue is someone we already know and trust ( ie, an old timer on BBO ) we send it off for a flyover. if that makes us suspicious we do an in-depth review.

The in-depth review will lead to a determination of cheating/not-cheating/unsure.

If we're unsure we watch list the person and re-investigate periodically.

If we're sure we review the decision again, then take action. This involves block the person from the games, or deactivate the username, or blocking the user's PCs or IP addresses or credit cards etc. No one answer here. If ACBL was involved we notify ACBL HQ and block the reporting of masterpoints. We also email/bbomail the person along the way.


2. If the cheating was not for masterpoints, but in a VIP context ( example, in a high profile team game, or by a stared username )

See above, except we usually remove the star along the way, just as we would if someone with a star was rude to others ( stars ultimately mean that BBO considers the player worth watching )


3. If the cheating was by one of our (volunteer) hosts

Shocker, but we usually part ways at this point


4. If the cheating was in the main bridge club

This is the hardest sort of thing to handle. We usually perform a cursory inspection, not using our best resources, and issue the usual disciplinary actions ( scramble, ban ). There are some people who insist on cheating and given the nature of BBO today, it is hard to keep them out; they keep cheating.
This was 4 years ago. I do not know if anything has changed.
  #740  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:38 AM
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Partner had a singleton club.
Then I don't understand 6NT at all.
  #741  
Old 06-27-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Partner had a singleton club.
Then I don't understand 6NT at all.
This. Bidding No Trump with extreme shortness in partner's suit is often a hallmark of very bad bidding judgment.

There's one player at playok.com who plays the dummy like a genius, but knows nothing about bidding. He jumps in NT with a singleton, etc. I gently said "You are an outstanding player. Read a textbook on bidding and you'll be a champion!" But he wasn't interested.

Before I found my present partner (who's an excellent cardplayer ... and was probably expert at some version of Precision Club ... 40 years ago) I used to partner with that guy. He'd say "OK, just be quiet!" First hand he opens Four Clubs. I passed. I'd forgotten that opening Four Clubs was Gerber. I've not brought myself to play with him again.
  #742  
Old 06-27-2018, 01:55 PM
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Then I don't understand 6NT at all.
I didn't either. I'm on the verge of breaking the partnership as we're simply not communicating. This partner has done things like open 1D and when I responded 1S (showing four, which might have been the 2, 3, 4, and 5) raised to 2S on a 3 card suit.
  #743  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:07 PM
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I didn't either. I'm on the verge of breaking the partnership as we're simply not communicating. This partner has done things like open 1D and when I responded 1S (showing four, which might have been the 2, 3, 4, and 5) raised to 2S on a 3 card suit.
It may be the least unattractive bid available. You might raise to 2S on: AQx, x, KJxxx, Kxxx
  #744  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
This. Bidding No Trump with extreme shortness in partner's suit is often a hallmark of very bad bidding judgment.

There's one player at playok.com who plays the dummy like a genius, but knows nothing about bidding. He jumps in NT with a singleton, etc. I gently said "You are an outstanding player. Read a textbook on bidding and you'll be a champion!" But he wasn't interested.
Bridge clubs up and down the country filled with players like that. Bidding changes and evolves - not just systems, but styles of play. The play of the hand has barely changed from Reese's day. You can crush a club pairs game playing Stone age Acol if you're sharp with the cards.

Find it quite humbling, actually, that these OG players can still do relatively well. It shows what a deep game we're all playing, and how overwhelmingly important the basics of card play and defence are. ISTM you need to get to quite a high level before you start beating pairs because your system is better than theirs.
  #745  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by K364 View Post
It may be the least unattractive bid available. You might raise to 2S on: AQx, x, KJxxx, Kxxx
Partner should have opened 1NT, having S:AJx H:xx D:AQJxx C:Qxx. Partner instead opened 1D with 5 diamonds and thus should have just repeated diamonds. On the hand you moot, the rebid would have been 2C. You do not show 4 card support when you only have 3 cards.
  #746  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
This. Bidding No Trump with extreme shortness in partner's suit is often a hallmark of very bad bidding judgment.
The Scottish international player who was teaching me last year said that he would rebid or respond NT with a singleton honour in partner's suit.

Last edited by Quartz; 06-27-2018 at 04:30 PM.
  #747  
Old 06-27-2018, 06:10 PM
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... On the hand you moot, the rebid would have been 2C. You do not show 4 card support when you only have 3 cards.
Somewhat dogmatic I would say.

Here is well thought out treatise on why 3 card raises may work out well - link

4-3 fits historically are called “Moysian” after Alphonse “Sonny” Moyse who thought they were often superior to other possible contracts.

You need a strong partner who can play the cards, I wouldn't dream of attempting a Moysian with a weak card player opposite me. I also know that when I'm in a Moysian, trumps break 5-1 about half the time, defying the odds.
  #748  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:26 PM
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This. First hand he opens Four Clubs. I passed. I'd forgotten that opening Four Clubs was Gerber. I've not brought myself to play with him again.
While you can agree (almost) whatever you want, I've never heard of an opening 4C being Gerber.
  #749  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:37 PM
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Partner should have opened 1NT, having S:AJx H:xx D:AQJxx C:Qxx. Partner instead opened 1D with 5 diamonds and thus should have just repeated diamonds. On the hand you moot, the rebid would have been 2C. You do not show 4 card support when you only have 3 cards.
You may be from the "Home of the haggis", but K364 is from the home of the (mostly) strong not trump. Actually, AJX xx AQJxx Qxx is not a bad 15-17 1NT anyway.

Raising does not show 4 card support unless you specifically agree it does, but that is probably a minority view these days.

I raise with a 3-card suit when I have a small outside doubleton (worse than Qx). Levin/ Weinsten (Meckwell's teammates) raise on 3 when worse than 10x. 3 card raises are not to be spurned. I lost in the final of a tournament KO in part because partner did not raise me with 3 and we missed game, whereas the pair at the other table (including a mutliple-time national champion) did raise.

And just today my partner opened 1D and raised my 1H to 2 with Kx Axx A109xxx Qx. We breezed into 6H for 83% that should have been 7H for 100% but I am an idiot.
  #750  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:44 PM
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The Scottish international player who was teaching me last year said that he would rebid or respond NT with a singleton honour in partner's suit.
Completely agree. And it can be right even if partner rebids his 5-card suit. I recently opened a minot and rebid 1NT over partner's 1S with singeton queen. Partner rebid 2S with AJ10xx. That combination plays for one loser 62% of the time. Most people who would never rebid 1NT with a singleton queen would have no problem doing so with xx, yet xx opposite AJ10xx plays for one loser only about 30% of the time.
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