Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:29 AM
Mahaloth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 29,837
Is there a mobile/tablet version coming?
  #52  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:08 PM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 12,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
Is there a mobile/tablet version coming?
According to the FAQ:
Quote:
What about other platforms(consoles/mobile)?
There are no plans to support any other platforms at this time.
However, the game is still in Early Access. Don't Starve has a mobile version, but only until long after the game had been "officially" completed.
  #53  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:38 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
I started a new game--each time I think I refine my base. On the bright side, my new base had two neural vacillators near the starting location (each one gives a single dupe a major bonus, e.g., +10 strength). On the downside, water's a little scarcer, and I can't find a frost biome anywhere. I'm on day 75 or so, and starting to worry about heat.
  #54  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:48 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
On the downside, water's a little scarcer, and I can't find a frost biome anywhere.
Whew. I got lucky here with at least three frost biomes nearby. I harvested a bunch of Wheezewort, which saved my crops and at least stopped the temperature rise in my "industrial zone".

I also ran across an Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier. I've yet to hook it up, but it looks like it can cool virtually my entire base with the right hydrogen heat exchanger setup.
  #55  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:08 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
This is probably true. I have my hydrogen generator going, and it leaks polluted water everywhere.

Something else must be causing that, peepee accidents maybe? Hydrogen generators don't have waste.


Alright, so for power management, it took me a bit to figure out. Each set of wires is a circuit that shares power load equally. Even if it's branched, if you have more than 1KW of draw on that circuit, the whole circuit can take damage. So you have to set up circuits based on powering equipment which totals less than 1KW.

So the best way to approach this is to have your power generators somewhere that they can be interconnected with heavy wire relatively easily. Make a heavy wire main trunk that runs through your base, either horizontally or vertically. But heavy wire has a huge decor cost, so you're going to want to reserve a tunnel (2 spaces enclosed by tile) to run the heavy wire. The tile will block the decor decay. In this power corridor, you run your heavy wire (obviously), but every so often you also have a transformer. That transformer can connect your wire circuits (each drawing less than 1KW) to the main power wire. It's also a good idea to put batteries in these corridors - not only are you not using the extra space for anything else, but if they're connected directly to the main base heavy power line you don't have to worry about matching batteries to particular circuits, the heavy line batteries can supply power to anywhere in the circuit.

Part of the difficulty is learning this stuff on the fly - I didn't know how power worked and so my power plants are scattered, I left little room for utility corridors, etc. Every time I learn something new about the game I want to go back and design it from the ground up with that knowledge. But I'm at around cycle 60 with a healthy base - everything is running pretty well, got a good electrical/plumbing/ventilation cycle, food production is good (although I need to start exotic farms for fancier meals), everything is researched. I've been focused almost entirely on making a self sufficient base and have done almost no exploring. Trying to figure out how exosuits work now so that I can go digging around in other biomes.

I am very low on coal which is going to present a problem. I don't see coal anywhere else on the map - is the starter biome the only place you get coal? There is a steam geyser in sight, so I could try using that as a power source.
  #56  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:30 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Another tip: build your base more vertically than horizontally. Having one central ladder keeps things moving pretty well and then later on you can put a firepole next to it which will significantly speed up movement around your base. Leave a space open on either side of the ladder - for the eventual fire pole but also makes oxygen transfer around your base easier.
  #57  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:58 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
I am very low on coal which is going to present a problem. I don't see coal anywhere else on the map - is the starter biome the only place you get coal? There is a steam geyser in sight, so I could try using that as a power source.
The caustic biome has a crapload of coal. One key thing to do is to hook up your coal generator(s) to a smart battery--the coal generator will otherwise run constantly, wasting a lot of coal. This incredibly detailed guide for the early game has some detailed diagrams midway down. The midgame guide by the same gamer is also really good, although it's a little beyond me for now.
  #58  
Old 06-28-2018, 08:01 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Something else must be causing that, peepee accidents maybe? Hydrogen generators don't have waste.
Natural gas geyser, not hydrogen geyser.
  #59  
Old 06-28-2018, 08:34 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
So the best way to approach this is to have your power generators somewhere that they can be interconnected with heavy wire relatively easily. Make a heavy wire main trunk that runs through your base, either horizontally or vertically. But heavy wire has a huge decor cost, so you're going to want to reserve a tunnel (2 spaces enclosed by tile) to run the heavy wire. The tile will block the decor decay. In this power corridor, you run your heavy wire (obviously), but every so often you also have a transformer. That transformer can connect your wire circuits (each drawing less than 1KW) to the main power wire. It's also a good idea to put batteries in these corridors - not only are you not using the extra space for anything else, but if they're connected directly to the main base heavy power line you don't have to worry about matching batteries to particular circuits, the heavy line batteries can supply power to anywhere in the circuit.

Personally, I don't truck with no transformers. First of all, the movies sucked. Secondly, they're heatness right in the middle of the works, and that's no good. With smart batteries you can shut down generators automagically so that they'll only run when something is drawing enough juice to drain all the batteries connected to it (as long as the smart bat. is the first one in the daisy chain from the ginny), so I rather like having N separate power loops each connected to an individual generator. Plus when you do it that way you can better weather fuckups on a given power loop instead of having your entire operation shut down because a wire burned down somewhere or the batteries melted or somesuch.


Quote:
I am very low on coal which is going to present a problem. I don't see coal anywhere else on the map - is the starter biome the only place you get coal? There is a steam geyser in sight, so I could try using that as a power source.
FWIW, with the right pump setup the electrolyzer + hydrogen generator combo is power positive. That does mean switching from burning coal to burning water obviously, but if you happen to have a renewable source of that...

Also FWIW, fancier meals are not really necessary - if you have enough statues and paintings lying around (especially in the sleeping quarters and the mess hall) your guys won't ever stress out from eating even raw worms (pickled worms don't spoil, but really you don't need to even process them, just store your food in a CO2 pit, it's sterile and prevents decay).

The only upside to switching crops is to lessen the man/hours of your farmers and gofers because mealworm plants are quite labour intensive, both in terms of fertilizing the pots and carrying the stuff to your kitchen. Shrooms are much better in that regard (high crop yields, good calorie/weight ratio), but they require slime which is a PITA to handle safely inside the base without giving everyone lungrot.

I haven't really tried herding critters much, would hatches be a viable/renewable source of food, whether as omelet or raw meat ?
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.

Last edited by Kobal2; 06-28-2018 at 08:34 PM.
  #60  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:55 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Having a weird problem. To make up for the lost coal generation until I get the turbine set up, I put manual generators next to the coal ones. Then I connected them by heavy wire to the main power trunk, which is connected to everything else via transformers.

The dups will hop on the hamster wheel and then immediately jump off. If I select the wheel, it says "batteries sufficiently full" - what batteries? Every battery in here is at 0%, nothing is powered.

They're connected to the same power trunk the coal plant was, so it's not a wiring issue as far as I can tell. I can't figure it out.

Also, is there some way to set the default repair value of electrical line breaks higher? I was trying alternate methods of wiring just to see if I could get past this bug and one of the lines blew (because I was using regular wires instead of heavy) - and line breaks are always started at 5 priority. You can correct it manually, but sometimes you gotta run a grid in emergency conditions (like if you connect 2 grids temporarily) and get a bunch of circuit overloads. I'd like repairing them to start at a default priority of like 8 every time instead of me having to manually change them.
  #61  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:13 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Is there a transformer between your batteries and the manual generators?
  #62  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:21 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
No, I've got the batteries hooked up to the same heavy line that runs from the power plants to the transformers.

I managed to fix it for reasons that didn't make sense - I made a redundant connection between the manual wheels and the main power trunk via regular wires. There's no reason this should work since they're already connected by heavy wire in the same way the coal plant was. Usually if there's something that doesn't make sense I can pin it down to my error - often I mix up the input/output pipes for example - but this one isn't making sense to me. But it's working for now.
  #63  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:28 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Yeah, that is strange. Well, it is still in Early Access.

I had my generators hooked up via standard wire since I didn't want to pay the decor cost, but they kept frying. When I unlocked the heavy conductive wire, I tried using that instead since it's not quite so hard on decor--but couldn't convince my electrician to actually install it.

Turns out that my main electrician had the "Unconstructive" trait, meaning he couldn't actually build anything. Bleh. I put him on gofer duty and trained up another. Serves him right.
  #64  
Old 06-29-2018, 12:35 AM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Atmos suits require a ton of oxygen, 200kg per charge. That seems excessive. Does it at least model partial usage? If someone goes out for a bit, and comes back, they might've only used a small fraction of the oxygen and it doesn't need a full recharge, right?

I have 2 docking stations at the end of an oxygen pump and it still takes somewhere around a full cycle to fill them up with oxygen.

Edit: It may be that 200kg is all the station holds, rather than what the suit holds. That would make more sense.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-29-2018 at 12:38 AM.
  #65  
Old 06-29-2018, 03:27 AM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
I'm a little baffled. The daily reports are reporting huge energy losses on the order of 500KW (which is almost half of what my base uses), with most coming from my 2 coal plants. But the batteries on that line never become full - they're only at like 70% at most. How am I wasting energy if I'm not even filling the batteries connected to those generators?

Edit: And now I'm back to the point where the manual generators won't operate because "batteries sufficiently full" even though most of my base is unpowered. I have to use the redundancy trick before - the one that makes no sense because I'm just making a redundant connection to the main heavy wire power trunk with wire - it adds nothing functional, no new connections, but it works. Problem is because I'm carrying a load over the wires instead of heavy wires, it results in a lot of circuit overloads. Not even sure how to fix it since it doesn't make sense.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-29-2018 at 03:31 AM.
  #66  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:34 AM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
So today I learned that materials have different pressure resistances, and large sandstone-bottomed water tanks are not a good idea.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #67  
Old 06-29-2018, 09:52 AM
MichaelEmouse's Avatar
MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Atmos suits require a ton of oxygen, 200kg per charge. That seems excessive. Does it at least model partial usage? If someone goes out for a bit, and comes back, they might've only used a small fraction of the oxygen and it doesn't need a full recharge, right?

I have 2 docking stations at the end of an oxygen pump and it still takes somewhere around a full cycle to fill them up with oxygen.

Edit: It may be that 200kg is all the station holds, rather than what the suit holds. That would make more sense.
I noticed that when wearing a suit, a Dupe will have an additional bar which depletes which is likely the oxygen. I think the suit can carry 200kg of oxygen and if you still a fraction of it, you don't need to recharge all of it.
  #68  
Old 06-29-2018, 12:40 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
My reservoir is shrinking and heating up, and I spent so freakin' long trying to get a thermo aquatuner set up in the frost biome (finally found a couple). Snag after snag after snag, and meanwhile my farms were all inactive.

So I reloaded a game from before I started experimenting with the aquatuner. Built about two dozen ice blocks directly in the reservoir (they instantly melt if submerged in water, instantly adding icy water to the reservoir), and got the temperature from the mid thirties to the low twenties.

Sometimes low-tech is the way to go!
  #69  
Old 06-29-2018, 03:53 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Nice! I didn't even think about building ice blocks. For some reason, seeing them in the decoration menu made me think "these are just magic non-melting blocks that don't do anything". I should have been trained out of that by now...

My Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier setup is taking forever to build. It's super far away and needs tempshift plate for the heat exchanger, a ton of insulated ducts, and other stuff. It's coming but I may need one more thing to tide me over for a new more hours. I have an existing heat exchanger and tons of Wheezewort plants and it's still not enough.

My current biggest problem may be CO2 production, though. It's getting really dense in the lower reaches of my base. I found a Slickster, though, which converts CO2 to oil. Currently engaged in a breeding program so I can have a few dozen converting away.
  #70  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:00 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Nice! I didn't even think about building ice blocks. For some reason, seeing them in the decoration menu made me think "these are just magic non-melting blocks that don't do anything". I should have been trained out of that by now...

My Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier setup is taking forever to build. It's super far away and needs tempshift plate for the heat exchanger, a ton of insulated ducts, and other stuff. It's coming but I may need one more thing to tide me over for a new more hours. I have an existing heat exchanger and tons of Wheezewort plants and it's still not enough.
Yeah, I've got a thermo-nullifier, but not a ton of hydrogen, and a small enough water supply that I'm very skeevy about using the electrolyzer until I get that in control.
  #71  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:08 PM
Skywatcher's Avatar
Skywatcher is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Potomac
Posts: 35,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Yeah, I've got a thermo-nullifier, but not a ton of hydrogen, and a small enough water supply that I'm very skeevy about using the electrolyzer until I get that in control.
I like to run my electrolyzers off the output from a sieve.
  #72  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:18 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
I like to run my electrolyzers off the output from a sieve.
That's a pretty smooth plan, I gotta say. But even then, my polluted water supplies are very low--I've found 6 or so additional biomes, and only one of them is swamp. And I've got a pipe right now draining the next-to-last polluted water pool I've found in that swamp.

Still, maybe that'd be workable....
  #73  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:02 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Yeah, I've got a thermo-nullifier, but not a ton of hydrogen, and a small enough water supply that I'm very skeevy about using the electrolyzer until I get that in control.
I got lucky with my steam vent. It's currently in a dormant stage but when it's active it produces a ton of water. And I have a big cistern that gets me through the dormant periods.

The Nullifier really doesn't use much hydrogen, though. It uses less than 10% of a single electrolyzer's output (and I have four of them going now since I have zero algae left and slime conversion ins't really sustainable).
  #74  
Old 06-30-2018, 01:58 AM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
I like to run my electrolyzers off the output from a sieve.

Careful there. Sieves don't kill germs. Electrolyzing your septic tank sounds like a great, renewable idea until you aerosolize food poisoning all over the place... No, I absolutely did not learn this the hard way, why do you ask ?
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #75  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:16 AM
Chisquirrel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,622
If you're careful, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, as long as you keep the air free of pollution - pure oxygen kills food poisoning pretty quick, and slimelung a bit less quickly.

I haven't gotten to the point of using hydrogen or chlorine, but I'm curious if it's possible to pump the gas into a frozen biome in order to condense it, then pump the liquid down into a containment area surrounded by airflow tiles, then passing infected oxygen through to kill germs and cool surroundings. Chlorine condenses ~-35 degrees, while oxygen doesn't liquefy for another 60 degrees cooler. Sounds like a project, or FUN!, to me.
  #76  
Old 06-30-2018, 05:33 AM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Ran into a problem. I've been having trouble with long term power generation - I have mostly slime biomes. The best shot I had at a decent amount of power generation was when I spotted oil in a biome about 3-4 biomes deep. So I undertook this massive project to dig my way down there and run heavy wire all the way there, figuring I'd generate power down there and run it back through the wire to my base.

It didn't occur to me to check temperatures. Everything in that zone is 185-230 degrees F. I've got an area fairly close at 120f where I can run the actual power plants themselves, but the liquid pump would be immersed in liquid of 185 and malfunction. Short of running a massive project to cool down that area with the ice area 3 biomes over, is there anything I can do to salvage this situation?
  #77  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:22 AM
MichaelEmouse's Avatar
MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,364
How do germs react to a high carbon dioxide environment? Do they die, keep spreading, become dormant?
  #78  
Old 06-30-2018, 01:11 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
They become dormant.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #79  
Old 06-30-2018, 01:30 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Ran into a problem. I've been having trouble with long term power generation - I have mostly slime biomes. The best shot I had at a decent amount of power generation was when I spotted oil in a biome about 3-4 biomes deep. So I undertook this massive project to dig my way down there and run heavy wire all the way there, figuring I'd generate power down there and run it back through the wire to my base.

It didn't occur to me to check temperatures. Everything in that zone is 185-230 degrees F. I've got an area fairly close at 120f where I can run the actual power plants themselves, but the liquid pump would be immersed in liquid of 185 and malfunction. Short of running a massive project to cool down that area with the ice area 3 biomes over, is there anything I can do to salvage this situation?

In the current version of the game (I expect it to be patched out) you can build makeshift anti-entropy devices with sieves. No matter how hot liquid comes in, it comes out tepid. And piss water is very good at storing heat. So you want to pump piss water on top of your machines or in radiant pipes behind them to pick up lots of heat, the go into a sieve to cool down, then find some way to turn it back into piss - by running it through some CO2 skimmers for example.


The only thing you have to be careful for is, you don't want the pisswater to pick up so much heat that it vaporizes inside the pipes or it'll wreck the works - it'll turn to steam around 120C (240 F).


Also, build your machines out of gold amalgam instead of copper and your pipes out of granite/obsidian (if you want heat exchange) or igneous/abyssalite (if you don't), it'll tolerate much higher temps before throwing a cog (e.g. a gold pump should tolerate 125 C/~250 F).
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.

Last edited by Kobal2; 06-30-2018 at 01:30 PM.
  #80  
Old 06-30-2018, 02:05 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
You could also put a bunch of wheezeworts in pots down in your machine area and fill it with hydrogen for better heat dissipation and/or run various pipes through such a fridge, if you find the sieve heat deletion a bit too "exploit" for your tastes. That's what the wheezes are there for, but of course they are a limited resource.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.

Last edited by Kobal2; 06-30-2018 at 02:06 PM.
  #81  
Old 06-30-2018, 02:31 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Oh, but for a simpler solution to the power problem in general : hatch ranches seem to be a way to turn damn near anything into coal. 9 regular hatches or 4 stone ones will permanently feed one coal ginny with a small surplus of coal - a full ranch is 8 hatches in 96 squares. It's space- and manpower-intensive, but kinda-sorta renewable.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #82  
Old 06-30-2018, 02:42 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Thanks for the advice. Going to go with the gold pump for now. I had actually looked through the materials and they all said they fail at 167f. I didn't realize that the gold modifier at the bottom wasn't being accounted for and that I had to add the 90f tolerance myself instead of it being part of the stats up top. That should work for now - I just need a pump and some wiring in the hot area, I can keep the actual refinery and generator in a somewhat cooler area. Thanks.

Now I've got a pool of clean water that has lots of germs in it. I can use it for electrolysis, but if I run out of water for fresh water things, is there some way to degermify it?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-30-2018 at 02:44 PM.
  #83  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:49 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Depending on the germs : heat it or cool it. Boiling it always works, but then you have to deal with steam .
On the whole I've come to realize that germs are not that big a deal though. Food poisoning only harms dupes if they eat it (doesn't matter at all if it's in the air) and cooking contaminated stuff on the grill kills it - so it seems to only affects microbe musher food, which you should probably be off of at this point. It also wastes time because dupes will start scrubbing heavily germy items, but you can turn that off. That being said it couldn't hurt to put a sink in front of the cooking area, just to be sure.



If you have slimelung in your water, that's more annoying - you'll have to cool the water pool below 20C to kill 'em quick. Or you could just wait, since slimelung dies in fresh water.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #84  
Old 06-30-2018, 06:55 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Microbes would also affect cooking lifeloaf from mealwood, right? That's still my primary food source.

I'm having 2 odd problems. So I finally got my oil setup going. Except it's not going. The pump correctly pumps the oil to the oil refinery. The oil refinery pumps its output (petroleum) to the polymer press. But... neither of those buildings are doing anything. They're just sitting there without an error message.

Is my setup correct? Liquid pump (crude oil)->Liquid intake on oil refinery. Liquid output on oil refinery->liquid input on polymer press. Gas output of polymer press vented into the atmosphere. Seems like it should be a complete system but they're just sitting there idle. I can't build a petroleum generator until I get plastic from the polymer press, so right now I'm just trying to build polymer.

The oil goes to the refinery, but nothing happens from there - the refinery isn't sending out petroleum to the polymer press. Neither are overheated or lacking anything. Just not doing anything. There's no gas output on the oil refinery, so I assume the natural gas just leaks out wherever the refinery is.

Also, I have air pumps putting in O2 into my exosuit dock stations. There's a very small amount of non-O2 gas, enough to just repair the station rather than use energy on a gas filter. But they do take damage over time. For some reason my guys stopped repairing the damage. There are now 2 exosuit docks broken, with priority 9, both saying awaiting delivery of 10kg copper for repairs (I have 4000kg so no problem there) but no one will actually repair them.

Edit: Think I solved the latter problem - I think it wants refined copper rather than copper ore. I can do that. Still no idea on the oil refinery.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-30-2018 at 06:57 PM.
  #85  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:25 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Oh god, I figured it out. The oil refinery is handcranked. I would've never guessed. It's late in the tech tree - there's no way to make an automatic oil refinery? That's a huge pain in the ass for my long term energy plans - I gotta keep people on station all day far away from my base to turn the stupid crank.

So what was happening was due to the lack of refined copper (caused by fresh water mysteriously stopping half way through my fresh water system for no apparent reason), the metal refinery wouldn't run. Which lead to no refined copper. Which lead to no atmo suit repair. Which lead to no one being able to get past the checkpoint and manually crank the oil refinery. It didn't even occur to me that the oil refinery would be manually operated.

Any idea what's stopping my water flow right in the middle of the pipe? It used to supply the whole base (below it would connect to some showers, lavatories, metal refinery, etc.) and now the water just sort of stops right there. And it's not because the things above it (earlier in the pipe) are using up all the water - even if I turn all the electrolyzers off so they're not using water above that part of the pipe the water still sits there and collects.
  #86  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:50 PM
MichaelEmouse's Avatar
MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,364
As with many things in ONI, there may be a trade-off between short-term simplicity and long-term efficiency; If you establish a pipeline from the crude oil deposit to your base and have the refinery and polymer press in your base, handcranking won't be as much of a bother.



More generally:
Is there a reason to use a transformer as opposed to a battery? If you hook up a 20kW heavy wire to a battery then 1kW wires from the battery to power users, will there be damage? Does 1kW wire have some length limit?
  #87  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:52 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Any idea what's stopping my water flow right in the middle of the pipe? It used to supply the whole base (below it would connect to some showers, lavatories, metal refinery, etc.) and now the water just sort of stops right there. And it's not because the things above it (earlier in the pipe) are using up all the water - even if I turn all the electrolyzers off so they're not using water above that part of the pipe the water still sits there and collects.
Is that pump in the upper right powered?
  #88  
Old 06-30-2018, 08:28 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
As with many things in ONI, there may be a trade-off between short-term simplicity and long-term efficiency; If you establish a pipeline from the crude oil deposit to your base and have the refinery and polymer press in your base, handcranking won't be as much of a bother.
I get that in terms of manual generator vs other types of generators, for instance. But the oil refinery is a powered building and it's late in the tech tree - it doesn't make sense for it to require hand cranking. The only reason it would is if the devs specifically wanted to make remote oil power plants to be more difficult, which is generally against the design of the game - things are difficult for natural reasons rather than artificial restrictions like a hand-cranked yet powered high tech building.

If I had known that's how it worked, I would've built up pumps and pipe from the start, but I already laid a ton of heavy wire and no pipe - pain in the ass to redo all that infrastructure.

Quote:
More generally:
Is there a reason to use a transformer as opposed to a battery? If you hook up a 20kW heavy wire to a battery then 1kW wires from the battery to power users, will there be damage? Does 1kW wire have some length limit?
Does running a heavy wire into a bank of batteries, and then wires off those batteries work? Wouldn't it connect to the heavy wire rather than the battery? In which case it would be overloaded when the heavy wire brought too much power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Is that pump in the upper right powered?
Yeah, it's doing that thing where little tricky blue balls move between each big blue ball, the thing that indicates that it's pumping enough to keep the pressure in those pipes even as they're used. Just randomly stops traveling at the point I show for no apparent reason. Didn't realize that's why I've been losing calorie reserves too - my farms, which have been successfully fertilized for 50+ cycles through those pipes, are no longer getting any water. I've had to build a seperate system as a workaround until I figure out why the main system isn't working right.
  #89  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:50 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Microbes would also affect cooking lifeloaf from mealwood, right? That's still my primary food source.

Yes... but why ?! The musher eats 240W. A grill is a mere 60W, and pickled meal is more calories in one sitting, all without using any water ! Cooking it also doesn't look like the machine is taking a painful shit .



The food quality is slightly worse, but it's not like you can't fix that with moar paintings .
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #90  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:56 AM
Chisquirrel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
More generally:
Is there a reason to use a transformer as opposed to a battery? If you hook up a 20kW heavy wire to a battery then 1kW wires from the battery to power users, will there be damage? Does 1kW wire have some length limit?
Yep. The entire circuit is considered as one - any wires that are underrated for the current will fail. Transformers, with two separate connections, create separate circuits, thus avoiding overloads. Batteries are just "waystations" on the circuit.
  #91  
Old 07-01-2018, 04:50 AM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Whew. 464 cycles in, and while my base isn't quite self-sustaining, it's pretty close. I have heat exchangers on two nullifiers; one going straight to my farming setup and the other cooling my cistern. Temperatures are finally pretty stable and my farm is no longer dying. I've got a crapton of both fresh and polluted water. And it looks like I have enough oil to last a while. I stopped getting more dupes at 12.

What's next? I'm tempted to put some solar panels up on the surface, but I'll have to protect them against meteor showers with doors and a sensor. Might be worth it, though.

Incidentally, there does seem to be a backstory of sorts:
SPOILER:
When you get to open space, you can see an Earth-like planet in the background that got hit with a rather large object. It appears that our crew has been sent to an asteroid to preserve some semblance of humanity.
  #92  
Old 07-01-2018, 04:56 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
@Senorbeef : if you still have a germy reservoir problem, I think I finally stumbled upon a long-term solution. First, turn your reservoir into polluted water - CO2 scrubbers do it at 1L per second and also, obviously, clean CO2 which is generally a good thing. Or you can run slime distillers. Or just have your dupes piss in it (isn't it weird how toilets take 5L of flushing water in but output 12L of piss ? The bladders on these dupes, I swear !).
Then you run it all through a sieve - it'll come out at 40. Then pump it through an aquatuner sitting in the germy reservoir of pisswater. It'll cool the clean water back down to 20C and heat the polluted water like crazy, killing any food poisoning germs in it. But since that water then goes through the sieve anyway, it doesn't matter that it's near-boiling, because once it's through the whole thing it'll be back down to 20c before you finally empty it in your usable, clean water reservoir. Slimelung naturally dies in fresh water, but if that's the issue you can speed it up by heating the water back up to 25C (eg through radiant piping it next to a battery or two) then pipe it down through a second aquatuner in the pisswater, which will bring it down to 5C - and slime dies under 20. Now you have an entire reservoir of 5 clean water* which incidentally is also perfect for cooling the air coming down from the electrolyzer !


* (actually there probably will still be a few germs in there since you need to "prime" the aquatuner before it really starts cooking the piss tank, but you could always run the whole cycle again ; or prime the tuner with some other water/liquid first, wait until it's done cooked the vat of urine right properly then change the plumbing and turn the sieve on. Or you could just accept less-than-perfection and get them immune systems working, the concentration of germs should be much lower and within the safety threshold).
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #93  
Old 07-01-2018, 05:22 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
I keep restarting the game. Somewhere around the triple-digits of cycles, the complexity of the game starts to make it less and less fun for me. Hopefully I'm learning enough new stuff each time that each new restart gets me a little further into it.
  #94  
Old 07-01-2018, 06:12 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
You gotta do what's fun for you. But so far I love the fact that the game keeps throwing new problems at you. Somewhere around cycle 300, I ran out of dirt. Dirt! The mealwood plants I used everywhere need a constant supply of it and eventually I used up every speck (which only exists in the temperate zone).

Ok, so I switched to farming bristle blossoms. They need water and light, but no dirt. Great!

But my cistern is largely supplied by a steam vent, which outputs hot water. And although I've cooled it off somewhat with a heat exchanger, it's still pretty warm. And pumping that into my farm makes the farm warm. Which--especially combined with the lights--kills all the crops.

So I did a mad rush to repurpose my heat exchanger to only cool the farm water and not the other stuff, so as to get maximum benefit. And then connect to the other nullifier to get some cooling effect.

The great part is that all of these problems are, well, predictable and therefore fair. But they are also somewhat inevitable, so there's always some crisis at hand. The game stays interesting but not by the game throwing random crap at you. You are the instrument of your own demise.

I'd like to make it to 1000 cycles--but that will likely require making some sustainability improvements that I don't understand yet.
  #95  
Old 07-01-2018, 07:44 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 18,629
Yeah, I agree that while there is some RNG involved (the map of course, but also when exactly a dupe will want to pee and ditch a load of purulent ooze right next to the oxy vent) it's mostly all controllable - or at least you totally *feel* in control and that the game and physics are harsh but fair. Plus the complexity tends to be a) incremental and b) very much something that you learn by doing, and then the next time around you start organizing for this new layer of Stuff and thinking ahead from the get go.



It's much like Don't Starve that way (or Dwarf Fortress, for that matter) - you're meant to have your colonies die again and again in silly, unexpected or completely bonkers ways then start all over again with newfound wisdom. It's part of the fun. And of course you're also meant to make grand designs with that wisdom that totally work on paper and then go pear shaped because OMG why did you dig that one tile before making this other one you idiot now there's lava everywhere and I'm fucking HAPPY you got burned to death first, it's all your fault and totally not mine !


And hey, there's also debug mode available if you want to try some things out or just dick around with the physics.
__________________
--- ---
Assume I'm right and you're wrong - we'll both save a lot of time.
  #96  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:10 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Oh yeah, the whole "dig the wrong tile first" has created some amusing incidents. No deaths from that yet but I've had to drop everything a few times to mount a rescue mission while one of them is freezing to death or whatever. And then there's the scientist who can't help but get one little bit of research in on the steam vent, and instead of running to safety became incapacitated.

That said, I've no shame in reloading a save in case something stupid happened. I've only had a few deaths and none that I kept.
  #97  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:14 PM
MichaelEmouse's Avatar
MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
I keep restarting the game. Somewhere around the triple-digits of cycles, the complexity of the game starts to make it less and less fun for me. Hopefully I'm learning enough new stuff each time that each new restart gets me a little further into it.
What is it that's overwhelming you? You might want to dig into automation if you haven't, it's there to help you deal with the increasing complexity. It can be fun to set up a labor-saving automatic system that works well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
The great part is that all of these problems are, well, predictable and therefore fair. But they are also somewhat inevitable, so there's always some crisis at hand. The game stays interesting but not by the game throwing random crap at you. You are the instrument of your own demise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
It's much like Don't Starve that way (or Dwarf Fortress, for that matter) - you're meant to have your colonies die again and again in silly, unexpected or completely bonkers ways then start all over again with newfound wisdom. It's part of the fun. And of course you're also meant to make grand designs with that wisdom that totally work on paper and then go pear shaped because OMG why did you dig that one tile before making this other one you idiot now there's lava everywhere and I'm fucking HAPPY you got burned to death first, it's all your fault and totally not mine !
The more you play it, the more it resembles KSP in that regard.
  #98  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:18 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
What is it that's overwhelming you? You might want to dig into automation if you haven't, it's there to help you deal with the increasing complexity. It can be fun to set up a labor-saving automatic system that works well.
Heh--it's the automation system that's most intimidating to me. I've done a bit with it, but I have very little programming background, and my attempts at getting things to work have not been super-successful.

But it's not really a problem. Like I say, each time I quit in frustration, I've learned a little bit that I can apply to my next game, so I'm having fun .

Of course, then there are things like the latest game, where by cycle 45, two of my dupes are in rapidly failing health due to slimelung, even though I thought I was very careful with slime; come to find that even though my storage isn't allowed to hold slime, it's positively teeming with germs, in a way I haven't seen in any previous game. Not sure what's causing that.
  #99  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:43 PM
Chisquirrel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,622
My most recent project is heating related, again - a closed cooling system for the farms, using a nullifier. It's only in the developmental stage, as I'm still unlocking the required techs. A liquid of unknown chemical makeup will be pumped from a reservoir to the nullifier, where radiant pipes will allow it to be cooled, then through insulated pipes to the farm, where it will run through the farm tiles and back to the reservoir. The current plan is polluted water, but a FUN! goal is to do it with liquid chlorine using the frozen biome.

At this point, I'm fairly certain I am synonymous with Satan, in the eyes of my dupes. They get everything running all nice and happy, and I try something like this, which inevitably leads to the deaths of everyone involved.
  #100  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:20 PM
Dr. Strangelove's Avatar
Dr. Strangelove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
The current plan is polluted water, but a FUN! goal is to do it with liquid chlorine using the frozen biome.
I'm curious how that goes. I've been using hydrogen gas. It cools down to ~-20C, which seems to indicate that I'm maxing out its cooling capability (otherwise it would get colder). But I really dunno.

I have three ventilation pipes going to it: an insulated one feeding a high-pressure vent, another insulated one being fed by a pump, and a normal one carrying hydrogen from an electrolyzer. The electrolyzer feeds both the nullifier and the system (via standard vent). The system clogs up if you feed too much gas; having the high pressure vent on the return prevents it from doing so.

Hydrogen does have the nice advantage that it never turns to liquid/solid, so the system is entirely gas-phase. But liquid chlorine is more fun.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017