Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-22-2018, 06:29 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Then why are you giving it any credence?
Because of the fear of missing out on something big and the fear that what I know to be true is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9MS701rvoQ&t=2566s

Kind of like what this video says at the 10 min mark on.
  #52  
Old 01-22-2018, 07:04 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Middle of Puget Sound
Posts: 21,321
There are literally millions of crazy people in the world. Even if you talked to each one for only a minute, you'd spend your whole life doing so and only interview a fraction of them.

So if you're afraid of missing out, you will absolutely miss out. You only have one life, and that life is finite.

And if you're afraid of missing out by not picking the gold nuggets out of the piles of insane ranting, why aren't you afraid of missing out of seeing a beautiful sunset or missing out of seeing the Grand Canyon?

My life is finite. I can only experience a tiny fraction of all the possible experiences a human being can have. Therefore I have to make drastic choices every day about what experiences seem best to me, in my limited fallible judgement. And I'm probably missing out on all sorts of things.

Take my wife. I love her, but is she really the best possible match in the world for me? Of course not! There are probably millions of women in the world who'd make a better wife for me. Or at least thousands, come on. Except I don't know those women, I can't find those women, and they aren't exactly beating down the door to find me either. So I decide to marry the flawed fallible woman who is my wife and the mother of my children, and I possibly missed out on meeting my soulmate because I was on my honeymoon with my merely human wife at the time. Bummer!

And tomorrow I'm going to watch TV with my kids when I could be reading philosophy texts to see if there's some insight there that could change my life.

Your problem, as I diagnose you via my fallible limited merely human judgement, is that you think first principles and logical consistency are important to living a meaningful life. Except that's ridiculous. Humans are a particular species of animal, and our lives have no meaning. We're born, we stumble through the world seeking pleasure and avoiding pain, and then we die, and whether you were a king or a homeless bum everyone ends up forgotten. And so what? My life has no cosmic significance, whether it's a decent life or a horrible one. The only reason I care about my life is that it's my life.
  #53  
Old 01-22-2018, 07:04 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 16,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
Because of the fear of missing out on something big and the fear that what I know to be true is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9MS701rvoQ&t=2566s

Kind of like what this video says at the 10 min mark on.
What was the first thing I said to you?

I said, "He's a kook. Don't obsess. Move on."

But noooooo.....
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 01-22-2018 at 07:06 PM.
  #54  
Old 01-22-2018, 11:47 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
What was the first thing I said to you?

I said, "He's a kook. Don't obsess. Move on."

But noooooo.....
Except it's hard to say that to myself because it makes me think I am deluding myself, not to mention he makes a note of something like that in the video.

Like how we trick ourselves into thinking there is an ego and an I, or transcending the concepts that our minds use to navigate the world because that is ultimately a form of delusion.
  #55  
Old 01-23-2018, 06:47 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 16,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
Except it's hard to say that to myself because it makes me think I am deluding myself, not to mention he makes a note of something like that in the video.

Like how we trick ourselves into thinking there is an ego and an I, or transcending the concepts that our minds use to navigate the world because that is ultimately a form of delusion.
He's WRONG. For all practical values of WRONG. We've been over this. Dismiss and move on.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #56  
Old 01-27-2018, 11:57 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
He's WRONG. For all practical values of WRONG. We've been over this. Dismiss and move on.
But WHY is he wrong
  #57  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:25 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,743
Imagine a man who says every sentence said by a woman is incorrect. It’d be pretty easy to pick at that, right? Why, it’d be the work of a moment to mention sentences that (a) got said by a woman, and (b) were correct. Piece of cake.

But now imagine a man who says that every sentence said by a man is incorrect; before you get around to providing examples, you can just say “hang on; if that were *true*, then that sentence — the one he just said — would be incorrect!”

That man, see, you could simply write off as wrong.

So let’s say a man criticizes folks by saying that criticism is untenable: do you figure he’s like a man who talks smack about women, such that facts can be brought to bear? Or do you figure he’s like a man who talks smack about men, such that he can simply be disregarded, what with his own lips testifying against him?

(If I take the position that every position a given Senator takes is wrong — well, then, you and me, we can have us a discussion. But if I instead take the position that every position is wrong? Well, then, you can skip the discussion.)
  #58  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:26 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 16,436
"Images are just pixels, they're an illusion!"

"Books are just letters on a page, they're an illusion"

"The mind is really good at figuring out knowledge, but knowledge is an illusion"

He's wrong in the way most charismatic psychopaths are wrong. They talk shit all day long. They talk in circles, making bullshit claims without the slightest intention of ever backing them up. He's a charlatan with the gift for gishing gallop. He's in love with sophistry and the sound of his own voice bouncing inside the echo chamber of his shaved dome.

I'm pressed to find of WHY he's NOT WRONG.

Given your past posting history, I can see the appeal for you. Shame that you don't/can't realize that nothing but madness lies there.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #59  
Old 02-01-2018, 09:57 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
"Images are just pixels, they're an illusion!"

"Books are just letters on a page, they're an illusion"

"The mind is really good at figuring out knowledge, but knowledge is an illusion"

He's wrong in the way most charismatic psychopaths are wrong. They talk shit all day long. They talk in circles, making bullshit claims without the slightest intention of ever backing them up. He's a charlatan with the gift for gishing gallop. He's in love with sophistry and the sound of his own voice bouncing inside the echo chamber of his shaved dome.

I'm pressed to find of WHY he's NOT WRONG.

Given your past posting history, I can see the appeal for you. Shame that you don't/can't realize that nothing but madness lies there.
But what if that is the mind/ego being the deceiver and trying to shield you from the truth in front of your eyes?
  #60  
Old 02-01-2018, 10:21 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 12,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
But what if that is the mind/ego being the deceiver and trying to shield you from the truth in front of your eyes?
What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?
__________________
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent any other persons, organizations, spirits, thinking machines, hive minds or other sentient beings on this world or any adjacent dimensions in the multiverse.
  #61  
Old 02-02-2018, 09:57 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFidelius View Post
What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?
What does that have to do with any of this?
  #62  
Old 02-02-2018, 11:24 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Again, Titletown
Posts: 20,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
What does that have to do with any of this?
Exactly! You're finally getting it.
  #63  
Old 02-03-2018, 12:01 AM
Chimera Chimera is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 22,743
You do have an Ego. But it isn't a constant YOU. Every little complex in your head can manifest itself in that ego and act, and you don't know it, you don't recognize it, because it's still you.

"the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity."

The Ego isn't a separate thing to be perceived or managed as Other. It +is+ the conscious, subjective perception of YOU-ness. Trying to fight it is trying to create part of your own mind, your active mind, as Other. Likewise controlling your ego isn't about battling some Other, it is about controlling the conscious and subconscious parts of your mind that make demands on you to act in a certain way, see things in a certain way, demand things such as recognition and respect from others.

Controlling your ego is an exercise in self-mastery.

As for self-delusion, congratulations, you're Human. If there's anything we Humans have absolutely mastered over the last few hundred thousand years of conscious evolution, it is self-deception. The stunning and often counterproductive ability to tell ourselves that things that are true and real are not, and vice versa. Dealing with this isn't a battle against some demon, unless you see yourself as the demon, it is a matter of reason and logic. Of Humility and setting aside our insistence on being right, on not being wrong (ie, controlling our ego's desires).

"Because of the fear of missing out on something big and the fear that what I know to be true is not."

The Meaning of Life is not found in the great things, the big things. Constantly striving for those can destroy your life just as surely as addiction to drugs. Many a man (or woman) has suffered because they reached the mountain top of achievement, then spent their entire lives trying to recreate it or live off that fading glory. We discussed that in this forum not long ago. The guy who was the star jock in high school then was just some schmoe who couldn't shut up about it for the next 60 years being the stereotypical example.

No, the meaning of life is found in the small things. The joy of the sunset, of hanging out with friends or loved ones, of cuddling with a pet. A good glass of wine. A beautiful picture that makes you smile. A joke. All these small things, piled one upon another, are what makes your life, and what makes your life worth living. A life devoid of these things will be empty and hollow, even if you win the Nobel Prize or are the first person to set foot on Mars.

And as far as that whole "the things I know to be true, aren't"? In some ways that will always be true. We always grow and learn, at least as long as we are willing to do so. That is that self-mastery, and the humility of accepting that you don't really know anything at all. The Universe is huge. Incomprehensibly large. And just as that word says, we cannot comprehend everything.

But also, like I tell people, I went to Berean Baptist Church as a child. The Bereans were praised in the bible because they didn't just listen to preachers and believe everything they were told. Instead, they went home and looked in their scriptures and their books to see if it was true. So too in your life, don't believe everything you're told. Especially not by people in YouTube videos. You have the entire sum of Human Knowledge at your finger tips now, something no other generation of Humans before you had. Do the research, consider the sources, use your intelligence, your logic and your reason. Always err on the side of goodness and compassion.

Then don't invest any of your ego, your self-image, in that knowledge, those beliefs. Don't make your identity provisional on being right all of the time. Accept that you may be wrong, and be open to new information, with a critical eye on that information, it's limitations and the source, as people are ALWAYS going to lie to you and attempt to deceive you into believing what they want you to believe.

Then stop worrying about missing something and go out and meet the world.

Because you miss 100% of the shots you never take.
__________________
Little packets of Fear and Outrage, sold like crack from your Computer and TV

"The worst things in the world are justified by belief" - U2, Raised by Wolves

Last edited by Chimera; 02-03-2018 at 12:02 AM.
  #64  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:45 AM
WordMan WordMan is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 21,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Controlling your ego is an exercise in self-mastery.
Hmm, now there’s a thought.
  #65  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:24 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 16,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
But what if that is the mind/ego being the deceiver and trying to shield you from the truth in front of your eyes?
You behave as if this youtube kook is some sort of genuine messiah of whatever truth or meaning of life you think is being hidden from you.

If my mind/ego deceives me - and I do not accept that it does in any significantly harmful way - then on what basis do you decide that his ego/mind does not in fact deceive him and thus mislead credulous followers like you?

On what basis have you decided that this random internet clown deserve the benefit of the doubt? What are his credentials? What legitimate research has he published?
You think a bullshitter with the gift of gab and an inability to succinctly express his brilliant (ha!) ideas is onto something? Do you really believe you've found the font of truth and meaning in hours and hours of circular meanderings? COME THE FUCK ON...

Stop obsessing over this bullshit, MF. There's no there there. Your time would be much better spent going outside for a walk in the fresh air. Your mind and body will thank you.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 02-03-2018 at 09:26 AM.
  #66  
Old 02-03-2018, 02:49 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 12,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
What does that have to do with any of this?
We can play "what if" all day but eventually an idea needs to be checked against the observable world. If it does not agree with observation then the idea is likely to be a waste of time and energy to consider further.
__________________
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent any other persons, organizations, spirits, thinking machines, hive minds or other sentient beings on this world or any adjacent dimensions in the multiverse.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017