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  #401  
Old 03-13-2020, 03:02 PM
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Starfleet has reused names before. There have been about 3 Defiant. .
Some questions,
1. Wasn't Rios's skippers CO Picard sometimes Academy girlfriend?
2. Just what the hell was Raffi to Picard? Never seen in TNG or the films, yet she is someone from the past. How many years between Captain Picard relinquishing command of the Enterprise and Admiral Picard's resignation. A couple of years at most.
  #402  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:14 PM
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Starfleet has reused names before. There have been about 3 Defiant. .
Some questions,
1. Wasn't Rios's skippers CO Picard sometimes Academy girlfriend?
The Star Trek Memory Alpha wiki says, "Picard and Batanides had a crush on each other though neither decided to pursue it further. Picard later regretted that decision; however, when Q showed him what his life would have been like otherwise, he later came to realize that it would have meant the end of their friendship."
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2. Just what the hell was Raffi to Picard? Never seen in TNG or the films, yet she is someone from the past. How many years between Captain Picard relinquishing command of the Enterprise and Admiral Picard's resignation. A couple of years at most.
How do we know she is someone from his past, and that he knew her before she was assigned to him for the supernova evacuation missions? The same wiki says "According to the PIC Season 1 press kit, Musiker was a veteran Starfleet Intelligence agent with experience investigating and analyzing Romulan affairs and a "formidable tactician". It also claims that after Picard's retirement from Starfleet, she returned to Starfleet Intelligence before eventually leaving the service."
  #403  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:01 PM
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How do we know she is someone from his past, and that he knew her before she was assigned to him for the supernova evacuation missions? The same wiki says "According to the PIC Season 1 press kit, Musiker was a veteran Starfleet Intelligence agent with experience investigating and analyzing Romulan affairs and a "formidable tactician". It also claims that after Picard's retirement from Starfleet, she returned to Starfleet Intelligence before eventually leaving tfrom the linked page is
"Formerly Admiral Picard's first officer on a past mission, Raffi Musiker is also a veteran Starfleet Intelligence Agent and formidable tactician. Her experience investigating and analyzing Romulan affairs was a vital asset to Picard on their previous mission together. Over the course of this assignment, Musiker became a close friend and confidant to Picard. When the admiral retired in 2385 she returned to Starfleet Intelligence, but eventually left the service."
So it does not sound like they personally knew each other before, they were close during the 3-4 years together on the Romulan assignment, and we know from the show Picard did not keep in touch with her during the 14 years between his retirement and the events of the season.

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  #404  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:11 PM
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sorry; the board is slow and my post came out garbled, but I hope the meaning is clear
  #405  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:38 PM
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So Raffi hooks Picard up with a pilot she knows that may be willing to help him, and as it turns out that pilot just happened to have a deep tragic personal past connection with what Picard was doing, and he didn't even realize it until he saw Soji? That's...pretty weak.
  #406  
Old 03-13-2020, 07:08 PM
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I never thought of either of them as great actors. Perfectly competent, and did lovely things with their roles over the years of inhabiting them, but that's about it.

I'll be damned if they both didn't make me tear up a few times during last night's episode. I know many of the cast members have remained close, and maybe that bled through into their performances; the camaraderie and the genuine caring that Picard, Riker, and Troi have for one another was palpable.
Yes, well said. I thought it was a nice touching tribute they named their daughter Kestra. Troi finding out about a deceased sister she never knew about in the episode “Dark Page” was quite the tear jerker for me, especially the pain Lxaxana buried away for so long needing to be dealt with. I usually didn’t care for her contribution to the series in that role but she nailed that episode.
  #407  
Old 03-13-2020, 09:37 PM
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Starfleet has reused names before. There have been about 3 Defiant. .
You have to admit though that in a fictional universe where Starfleet is supposed to have a truly gigantic number of ships, it'd odd they had to pick the same name as the ship Khan commandeered.
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  #408  
Old 03-14-2020, 11:53 PM
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Picard Ep 8, Broken Pieces seems to borrow heavily from Voyager season 3 Ep 17 Unity.

We're in deep trouble, let's restart the Collective and use its strength to fix the problem.

Unity is in my top ten list of great Voyager episodes.

If you haven't seen the Voyager ep.
Obviously there's a plot description **spoilers for Voyager**
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unity_(episode)

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-14-2020 at 11:56 PM.
  #409  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:08 AM
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There's also a Voyager episode, S06 Ep E02, Survival Instinct where former Borg deal with PTSD. They blame Seven of 9 because they were on a Borg mission and got separated from the Collective. The drones resumed their normal personalities and could have been freed much earlier. Seven freaked out and initiated a Borg rescue beacon. Resulting in their recapture and many more years of Borg enslavement.

Anyway, seeing Borg as victims has been done before. Picard is just exploring it in more detail.

SPOILER for Voyager
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki...inct_(episode)

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-15-2020 at 12:09 AM.
  #410  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:31 AM
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I am enjoying the Picard series.

The plot seems a bit rushed. They're glossing over a lot of great material that really should be developed slowly on screen. But that would take several seasons. Patrick Stewart isn't getting any younger. He might not be available in 5 years.

Picard's story arc reminds me of DS9's complexity. The introduction of the Dominion, The Founders, and ultimately the war. It took 5 seasons to properly develop and present the story arc.

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  #411  
Old 03-16-2020, 01:27 PM
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Did anyone but me go a little WTF at how the holo-doc/hospitality/engineer thingy got its personality and memories? It did a "full scan" when Rios took over, and he had to go in and delete memories? So now Trek computers can just scan the memories right out of a person? When did this become possible, and why aren't more people freaked the fuck out about it?
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:14 PM
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Maybe if someone gets too freaked out about it, the authorities just go in and edit their personality (aka involuntary psychiatric treatment)

Anyway memory editing, brainwashing, and similar have come up in Star Trek before. Full scans too obviously, since that is how their transporters are said to work, and the Trek computers are perfectly capable of sifting through memories, creating holo-versions of people, whatever you want.
  #413  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:07 PM
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Did anyone but me go a little WTF at how the holo-doc/hospitality/engineer thingy got its personality and memories? It did a "full scan" when Rios took over, and he had to go in and delete memories? So now Trek computers can just scan the memories right out of a person? When did this become possible, and why aren't more people freaked the fuck out about it?
In earlier episodes Rios was using some of the holograms as a kinda substitute therapist to complain to, until he got annoyed and shut it off. My guess is the holos are combining what they remember from talking to Rios with whatever they can find in Starfleet records, and Rios spends time deleting their memories when he sobers up.
  #414  
Old 03-19-2020, 04:46 PM
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So The Borg are no match for Flower Power?
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Old 03-19-2020, 05:19 PM
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Did anyone but me go a little WTF at how the holo-doc/hospitality/engineer thingy got its personality and memories? It did a "full scan" when Rios took over, and he had to go in and delete memories? So now Trek computers can just scan the memories right out of a person? When did this become possible, and why aren't more people freaked the fuck out about it?
Trek can erase selective memories. Transfer personalities to computers....etc...in TOS a Mind Sifter could be used.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:40 AM
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So now they can scan someone's mind to make a hologram, but they can't figure out mind transference to a "Synthetic"? Sometimes I just have to sit back and be happy.
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  #417  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:04 PM
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So The Borg are no match for Flower Power?
Well, it was a barely-functional half-crippled ship. Still, that sort of thing might've come in handy at Wolf 359...

I'm a bit disappointed that they were so quick in removing all ambiguity and had Sutra embrace cartoonish evil in an instant. I had been hoping for a bit more moral complexity, but essentially, the synths are proving the Romulans right.

I'm holding out hope that either due to errors in the transmission or thanks to her own synthetic mind not being quite advanced enough to cope with the Admonition, Sutra hasn't really gotten the true message, which is then something other than 'call us and we'll kill all the organics for you'.

And when they first landed on the planet of the synths, did anybody else think, well, they've probably got some intricate and inviolable, yet arbitrary codex of law, transgression of which means instant death sentence?

Was impressed with the La Sirena sporting seatbelts, though. Technology really does advance!
  #418  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:35 PM
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And when they first landed on the planet of the synths, did anybody else think, well, they've probably got some intricate and inviolable, yet arbitrary codex of law, transgression of which means instant death sentence?
Not really. Maybe if they had all been wearing white diapers.
  #419  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:08 PM
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That was a weird ending, kinda.

SPOILER:
I'm left wondering whether they filmed it also in a version where Picard stays dead, to hedge their bets for being cancelled. As is, you get Picard's sacrifice being undone, taken over---entirely pointlessly---by Data, with a big point being made of how the finitude of our lives is what gives them meaning, which of course, goes against resurrecting Picard in a synthetic body---hence, they have to sorta renege on that, too, by having that body come with an expiry date, which was apparently a totally optional thing. I mean, even the ethical implications of resurrecting somebody only to set them a date by which they'll die...

Also, now death is cured in both Star Trek timelines. I expect that, in the future, people will make regular backups of their minds before any dangerous missions, etc., to be resurrected in a 'golem' body.

Ha, nah, of course, they're just gonna ignore it, the way the Abramsverse ignored Kahn's magic blood.
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Old 03-27-2020, 01:35 PM
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It was a lame, disappointing ending. I cannot argue there.
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  #421  
Old 03-27-2020, 02:15 PM
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Sounds like I'm glad I missed it.

I've been following along here. Much safer.
  #422  
Old 03-27-2020, 02:26 PM
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Sounds to me like the Picard writers have been reading Schlock Mercenary.
  #423  
Old 03-27-2020, 03:10 PM
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I agree, I hated the ending. Over the whole season, there were a few things I liked and more things that I was whelmed by. I think what I liked best was Jeri Ryan's portrayal of 7 of 9. I liked how she was a mature-but-still-gorgeous woman, attractive but no longer soft-core porno, kicking butt and taking names. I also liked, in terms of plot, how they were de-borging the borg in that cube and trying to make them an independent community of people.

Oh, also:
SPOILER:
when 7 plugged herself into the Queen's control system, risking that she'd not be able to get herself out of it again, but then did manage to get out of it.... that was thrilling.
  #424  
Old 03-27-2020, 03:18 PM
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It was a lame, disappointing ending. I cannot argue there.
Yep, same here. Telegraphed from the first moment of the reveal of the unformed body. I WANTED SO BADLY TO LOVE THIS SERIES!

Hated this ending.
  #425  
Old 03-27-2020, 03:40 PM
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Well, since (most of, shut up McCoy) that culture is comfortable with personal identity in reference to the transporter problem, Picard shouldn't have too much problem with what is essentially the same thing.
  #426  
Old 03-27-2020, 03:41 PM
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Jeesh, tough crowd. I loved the finale.

Looking forward to season 2.
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  #427  
Old 03-27-2020, 03:58 PM
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If they were trying to do something moderately believable with the ending, they failed pretty bad.

The Romulans assembling a fleet to go after the synths was pretty believable, because we had known they were working on that mission for a while.

How long had Picard's team been gone from Riker's place? A few days? And in that short time Riker managed to get command of the Federation's flagship, and assemble a massive fleet to meet the Romulans?

The rest of the Androids didn't freak out when Lore-ji was simply deactivated with a push of a button? Or when Soji turned off the beacon she promised to use to save them?

This was a rushed finale, and the long, drawn-out death scene and mourning for Picard when everyone knew they were just going to shunt him into the golem body was a huge waste of screen time.

And they just left a Borg cube on the planet, with no mention of what was going to happen to it? I had really wanted to see it come to the defense of the planet, intimidate the Romulans a bit with the promise of its weapons system coming online.
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  #428  
Old 03-27-2020, 04:23 PM
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Just what the hell was Raffi to Picard? Never seen in TNG or the films, yet she is someone from the past
All covered in a tie in comic book apparently.
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Old 03-27-2020, 04:46 PM
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And they just left a Borg cube on the planet, with no mention of what was going to happen to it? I had really wanted to see it come to the defense of the planet, intimidate the Romulans a bit with the promise of its weapons system coming online.
Speaking of that cube, they told that what originally crashed it out of the Collective was processing the extragalactic synths' message. Now they did establish that watching that message was a mental hazard which drove at least half the viewers insane, but I wonder that the Borg were susceptible to it. Not synthetic enough?

The extragalactic death bots did retreat pretty quickly for no reason, even though they had already received the coordinates and even sent a couple of scouts through a portal. Maybe their hearts weren't in it? Ex-ter-min-ate!

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  #430  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:46 PM
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I did not like the epilogue. I really hate the trope about immortality being a bad thing. What's not to like about staying alive (and young and healthy) forever? And it really was kind of cheap and awkward to have a big emotional death scene and then undo it minutes later, followed by subbing in Data dying--again!--as a kind of replacement.

But I thought the main part of the episode was well done in a middling classic Trek kind of way, and in fact all of it — good and bad — was very representative of basically median level of Trek over the years. Even if it didn’t approach the level of the best episodes or movies, it was also significantly better than the worst ones, and it just seemed much more recognizably of the franchise than virtually anything we have seen for the past decade or more.

The penultimate episode was much better than the finale, though. And the one on Riker's planet, with that awesome young actor playing his daughter, was excellent as well.

Given TNG's arc of improvement, something we see in a lot of TV shows to one extent or another, I look forward to next season--not quite eagerly, but amiably.
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  #431  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:27 PM
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Well, Picard really is dead. What good is it to him that a clone gets to take his place?
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:03 PM
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Did I miss what happened to Narek? He was pinned on the ground last I remember.
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:24 PM
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Did I miss what happened to Narek? He was pinned on the ground last I remember.
I don't remember seeing him after that. Presumably he slipped away during all the chaos and went back to his own ship later? We also didn't see what happened to Nerissa; sure, she was kicked off a catwalk, but the show made it a point a couple of times that she was at all times equipped with a personal teleporter, to get out of such jams.

Here is a question, though: Soji was, understandably, super pissed at Narek and warns Saga not to believe a word he says. But did he ever tell Soji a single lie? Even when he told her he was not Tal Shiar (and that he would answer the same if he were), that was technically true as he was in fact Zhat Vash.

All of his dialogue with Soji was amusing: "Is there anything you can tell me about yourself?" - "I'm a very private person." ... "Is Narek your real name?" - "No."

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  #434  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:59 PM
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Correction, that last bit was more like

"Is your name actually Narek?"

- "It's one of them."

Because that way he did not lie when he first told her his name was Narek.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:35 PM
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We also didn't see what happened to Nerissa; sure, she was kicked off a catwalk, but the show made it a point a couple of times that she was at all times equipped with a personal teleporter, to get out of such jams.

Ohhh...true! I hadn't thought of that. Seven/Annika should have used the disintegration method as she did earlier in the season.
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  #436  
Old 03-29-2020, 02:51 AM
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When 80% of your ending is stolen from Howard the Duck, you're doing it wrong.
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:13 AM
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The ending was not a surprise (of course it helped that I knew there would be a season 2). The one thing I expected that did NOT happen is I thought maybe the Borg cube would get into the battle (from the ground)
I'm also wondering what's going to stop the Zhat Vash from showing up a week later and nuking the synth planet from orbit? Yes there is a treaty and the Federation would get pissed, but the Zhat Vash seem to be a bunch of fanatics that might ignore that.

Looks like most (if not all) synths are twins -- no explanation.

Overall pretty good with some awesome moments and some head scratchers.

Brian
  #438  
Old 03-29-2020, 11:17 PM
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Well, Picard really is dead. What good is it to him that a clone gets to take his place?
Thank you. See also my arguments on Westworld and the Hickman X-Men comics.


Which is silly cause weve seen at least three times off the top of my head...now 4...where its consciousness transferred and not copied.

In fact i could argue that it was a copy of Picard talking to a copy of Data.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:51 AM
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I agree, I hated the ending. Over the whole season, there were a few things I liked and more things that I was whelmed by. I think what I liked best was Jeri Ryan's portrayal of 7 of 9. I liked how she was a mature-but-still-gorgeous woman, attractive but no longer soft-core porno, kicking butt and taking names. I also liked, in terms of plot, how they were de-borging the borg in that cube and trying to make them an independent community of people.
Totally agree. I wish her character had previously been this interesting.

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How long had Picard's team been gone from Riker's place? A few days? And in that short time Riker managed to get command of the Federation's flagship, and assemble a massive fleet to meet the Romulans?
Yeah, the timing didn't really work.

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This was a rushed finale, and the long, drawn-out death scene and mourning for Picard when everyone knew they were just going to shunt him into the golem body was a huge waste of screen time.
Mixed feelings. I enjoyed it enough, but the whole "not really dead" thing (because we want at least two more series) definitely cheapened the death scene (and indeed his sacrifice).

Quote:
And they just left a Borg cube on the planet, with no mention of what was going to happen to it? I had really wanted to see it come to the defense of the planet, intimidate the Romulans a bit with the promise of its weapons system coming online.
I was expecting something like that. But then it wouldn't have been Picard saving the day.

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Did I miss what happened to Narek? He was pinned on the ground last I remember.
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I don't remember seeing him after that. Presumably he slipped away during all the chaos and went back to his own ship later? We also didn't see what happened to Nerissa; sure, she was kicked off a catwalk, but the show made it a point a couple of times that she was at all times equipped with a personal teleporter, to get out of such jams.
I wondered the same thing about Narek. He seems to have been forgotten about. I did consider that Nerissa might have escape splattitude via her teleporter; the teleport block was still in force at the time but <magic Romulan tech> so who knows.

The other dangling thread - are we now just shrugging off the murder of Bruce Maddox as just one of those things that happened and "Oops, my bad! Bygones!"?

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When 80% of your ending is stolen from Howard the Duck, you're doing it wrong.
Or the Avengers or probably lots of other second-rate "we must close the portal" sci-fi or horror films.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:02 AM
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The other dangling thread - are we now just shrugging off the murder of Bruce Maddox as just one of those things that happened and "Oops, my bad! Bygones!"?
I wondered about that more than once! On one hand, they were consoling her with, "it was definitely Romulan mind control; you were coerced", but ultimately conveniently ignored how they were already on the way to the starbase where the authorities were waiting to arrest her (and presumably she would stand trial) before they got diverted.
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:25 PM
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I wondered about that more than once! On one hand, they were consoling her with, "it was definitely Romulan mind control; you were coerced", but ultimately conveniently ignored how they were already on the way to the starbase where the authorities were waiting to arrest her (and presumably she would stand trial) before they got diverted.
While the local crew understands things -the Security Chief Romulan/Vulcan (we know who she really is) - basically ordered her to kill Maddox - She could either protect her with 'she was under our orders, etc and so on' - or make sure she never see's trial - after all, some of her friends must be vulcan.

Mostly it will be forgotten.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:14 PM
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While the local crew understands things -the Security Chief Romulan/Vulcan (we know who she really is) - basically ordered her to kill Maddox - She could either protect her with 'she was under our orders, etc and so on' - or make sure she never see's trial - after all, some of her friends must be vulcan.

Mostly it will be forgotten.
You mean the head of Starfleet will cover it up? The security chief blew her cover and went off to command a Romulan fleet. I'm sure she still has assets/strings to pull in the Federation, but how effective could they be in this case, and why would she bother?

As for announcing that they ordered Pill to kill or publicly airing secret Zhat Vash business, even if for some reason they did, note that when you murder someone because you were following orders, even if those orders were, do it or we torture, murder, and genocide your family, you are still completely culpable for first-degree murder.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:12 PM
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I loved eps 1-9. Only can praise the Data scenes in 10

My biggest hangup was....once Sutra gets turned off...no one bothers trying to stop Soji. She's only going to destroy the galaxy. No one even says anything to her. Then when Will arrives all the focus is on will the fleets fight and not the GD beam thats opening up a portal.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:27 AM
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Not thrilled with the ending. Very well done narrative overall but not the ending I would have chosen.

Starfleet should have remained to protect the planet.

I don't like phony death scenes.

I don't like the fact that the nearly insane Romulan secret police force was absolutely correct in believing that artificial intelligent beings represent an existential threat to life in the galaxy. That threat has not gone away, any artificial life that exists can rebuild this beacon and bring down ruin upon humans, vulcans, klingons, and romulans alike. Frankly, the right ending would have had the beacon work, bring the advanced AI to the planet, and proven them to not be a threat to life, but a refuge for the AI we have created.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:52 AM
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Maybe George and Gracie could have talked to the AI.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:04 PM
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Why didn't Aggie use the magic purple brass knuckles imagination thingy to save Picard?
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Old 04-01-2020, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintcharge View Post
Why didn't Aggie use the magic purple brass knuckles imagination thingy to save Picard?
Yeah, that's what I expected would/should happen.
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Old 04-02-2020, 04:04 AM
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Only can praise the Data scenes in 10

This seems to be the consensus at Jammer's Reviews as well. Am I the only one who found the Data scenes (and the whole epilogue, really) by far the worst part of the episode and even the season? But then I've never been super fond of Data.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:07 AM
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Looks like most (if not all) synths are twins -- no explanation.
They covered this in ... I want to say episode 1? When Picard first goes to Daystrom and shows Jurati the necklace, she says something about synths being created in pairs, or some such babble.
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:37 AM
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Some of the babble in Episode 1 was about how the new synths' brains were created using reverse-engineered/cloned neurons based on Data and the process resulted in twins. In Episode 10 they apparently had a pretty good copy of Data's data, which they were using to bring Picard and presumably the other synths to life, though that does not explain why Data seemed to be conscious and aware in the computer and furthermore suicidal, or what they will do now that they erased him, though for that last thing they have apparently advanced enough so they don't need to use Data as a template any more.
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