Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Freddy the Pig is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 7,988
Nah, Ned's just a People Person. He remembers everything about everybody he's ever met, sure as heckfire.
  #102  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:55 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximenean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytegeist View Post
My own (not serious) pet theory: Phil is released from the time loop when he finally agrees to buy life insurance from Ned.
I think I mentioned this in another Groundhog Day thread once, but there's a guy out there who has a theory that Ned Ryerson is also in a time loop. Exhibit A: notice how when Phil first meets Ned, he doesn't remember him at all? And Ned gives him a load of detail about their school days? Later, Phil pulls the same trick on Nancy. Theory: in some other cycle of days (that this Phil hasn't experienced), Ned has been gradually pumping him for information about his past, just like Phil does with Nancy.
There were other elements to the theory. All good far-fetched fun.
And Ned can't break out of his loop until he sells life insurance to everyone in town.
  #103  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
How functional would he be when he is no longer able to anticipate actions and events?

That's a long time to be stuck in a replay loop.
An interesting question. I think that, at least for a while, he would revel simply in not knowing everything that was going to happen. I think that he would also be accustomed to being so keenly observant about the minutiae of his surroundings as well as the people within it, that this attunement would continue reflexively. Nothing would be "background" anymore, no people would be "extras." Every detail would be interesting to him, every person an individual. Ideally, he would also carry the newfound sense of gratification he gets from selflessness with him, and that would continue. I dion't know that he would become a saint, but I do think he would enjoy his own life a lot more, and be perceived by others as a caring and generous person.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-04-2010 at 05:02 PM.
  #104  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:09 PM
Strassia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skammer View Post
He doesn't have to be limited to spending his ATM cash withdrawal limit. Presumably he has a credit card with a limit of several thousand dollars. He could pay for things like the concert tickets, food, etc on credit.
Not to mention, since this was the early 90s, it is not unreasonable for him to be carrying his check book.
  #105  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:13 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximenean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytegeist View Post
My own (not serious) pet theory: Phil is released from the time loop when he finally agrees to buy life insurance from Ned.
I think I mentioned this in another Groundhog Day thread once, but there's a guy out there who has a theory that Ned Ryerson is also in a time loop. Exhibit A: notice how when Phil first meets Ned, he doesn't remember him at all? And Ned gives him a load of detail about their school days? Later, Phil pulls the same trick on Nancy. Theory: in some other cycle of days (that this Phil hasn't experienced), Ned has been gradually pumping him for information about his past, just like Phil does with Nancy.
There were other elements to the theory. All good far-fetched fun.
The more I think about this, the more impressed I am by the idea. Ned DOES approach Phil pretty much exactly as Phil approaches Nancy.

Ned could be pretty early in his loop, because he still has a pretty obnoxious outward personality. He hadn't relearned better behavioral skills.

If he reappeared at the same points every day in Phil's loop, though, that suggests he didn't have the freedom of action that Phil did.
  #106  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Bosstone is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 15,368
It's an interesting line of thought. I suspect the more mundane explanation is that Phil just took a page from Ned's natural personality when going after Nancy.
  #107  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:26 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
re: the insanity thing. I guess it depends on whether you think that insanity can be purely a psychological thing. It seems apparent that Phil has practical immunity to any physiological illness that he didn't already have that day, and whatever illness he did have would never get worse.

I would assume Phil's body was somehow chemically reset every morning as he didn't age. So I wonder if someone can go insane by basically just remembering how insane they'd been the day before, and continuing along the same track.

Then again, if his body, including his brain, was "reset", how did he remember anything? The reset explanation would seem to work for everyone in town except Phil.
  #108  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Strassia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximenean View Post
I think I mentioned this in another Groundhog Day thread once, but there's a guy out there who has a theory that Ned Ryerson is also in a time loop. Exhibit A: notice how when Phil first meets Ned, he doesn't remember him at all? And Ned gives him a load of detail about their school days? Later, Phil pulls the same trick on Nancy. Theory: in some other cycle of days (that this Phil hasn't experienced), Ned has been gradually pumping him for information about his past, just like Phil does with Nancy.
There were other elements to the theory. All good far-fetched fun.
The more I think about this, the more impressed I am by the idea. Ned DOES approach Phil pretty much exactly as Phil approaches Nancy.

Ned could be pretty early in his loop, because he still has a pretty obnoxious outward personality. He hadn't relearned better behavioral skills.

If he reappeared at the same points every day in Phil's loop, though, that suggests he didn't have the freedom of action that Phil did.
You are assuming they are in the same loop, rather than intersecting loops. From the movie, it appears that the Ned we see is the same everyday, but it could be that Phil is repeating Ned's 232nd day, or whatever.
  #109  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:34 PM
appleciders is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 6,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximenean View Post
I think I mentioned this in another Groundhog Day thread once, but there's a guy out there who has a theory that Ned Ryerson is also in a time loop. Exhibit A: notice how when Phil first meets Ned, he doesn't remember him at all? And Ned gives him a load of detail about their school days? Later, Phil pulls the same trick on Nancy. Theory: in some other cycle of days (that this Phil hasn't experienced), Ned has been gradually pumping him for information about his past, just like Phil does with Nancy.
There were other elements to the theory. All good far-fetched fun.
The more I think about this, the more impressed I am by the idea. Ned DOES approach Phil pretty much exactly as Phil approaches Nancy.

Ned could be pretty early in his loop, because he still has a pretty obnoxious outward personality. He hadn't relearned better behavioral skills.

If he reappeared at the same points every day in Phil's loop, though, that suggests he didn't have the freedom of action that Phil did.
I don't think it's necessary that a person would learn better behavioral skills by being put through this wringer. Phil does, but that's no guarantee that Ned would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
re: the insanity thing. I guess it depends on whether you think that insanity can be purely a psychological thing. It seems apparent that Phil has practical immunity to any physiological illness that he didn't already have that day, and whatever illness he did have would never get worse.

I would assume Phil's body was somehow chemically reset every morning as he didn't age. So I wonder if someone can go insane by basically just remembering how insane they'd been the day before, and continuing along the same track.

Then again, if his body, including his brain, was "reset", how did he remember anything? The reset explanation would seem to work for everyone in town except Phil.
Sane people can be driven insane by extremely stressful events. I don't think that mental illness is necessarily physiological.

Yeah, if memory is physiological, then the total universal reset doesn't make much sense in Murray's case. Clearly his body is restored or he'd retain injuries, but his mind, with the exception of damage incurred, seems to progress from day to day unchanged.
  #110  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Posaune Pat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
I would assume Phil's body was somehow chemically reset every morning as he didn't age. So I wonder if someone can go insane by basically just remembering how insane they'd been the day before, and continuing along the same track.

Then again, if his body, including his brain, was "reset", how did he remember anything? The reset explanation would seem to work for everyone in town except Phil.

Or how would he develop the muscle memory needed to become a pianist or ice sculptor or even a trick card thrower? If he could build and train muscle day to day, that would make interesting conversation starters with the people he already knew ("wow Phil, how'd you put on 40 lbs. of muscle overnight?!"), and would help convince them of his predicament.
  #111  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:50 PM
Bosstone is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 15,368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune Pat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
I would assume Phil's body was somehow chemically reset every morning as he didn't age. So I wonder if someone can go insane by basically just remembering how insane they'd been the day before, and continuing along the same track.

Then again, if his body, including his brain, was "reset", how did he remember anything? The reset explanation would seem to work for everyone in town except Phil.

Or how would he develop the muscle memory needed to become a pianist or ice sculptor or even a trick card thrower? If he could build and train muscle day to day, that would make interesting conversation starters with the people he already knew ("wow Phil, how'd you put on 40 lbs. of muscle overnight?!"), and would help convince them of his predicament.
A variant of this is used in the Stargate SG-1 homage episode. O'Neill, who normally has a poor head for academics and scholarly work, gets the bookworms to teach him more and more each day until they eventually have to accept his predicament, because there's no way he can know everything he tells them.
  #112  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:50 PM
appleciders is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 6,436
Is "muscle memory" physiologically resident in the muscles? I thought that it was, in the end, resident in the brain, albeit below the conscious level.
  #113  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:51 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strassia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post

The more I think about this, the more impressed I am by the idea. Ned DOES approach Phil pretty much exactly as Phil approaches Nancy.

Ned could be pretty early in his loop, because he still has a pretty obnoxious outward personality. He hadn't relearned better behavioral skills.

If he reappeared at the same points every day in Phil's loop, though, that suggests he didn't have the freedom of action that Phil did.
You are assuming they are in the same loop, rather than intersecting loops. From the movie, it appears that the Ned we see is the same everyday, but it could be that Phil is repeating Ned's 232nd day, or whatever.
I think the only way it would work would be with two non-intersecting loops, like parallel universes. That's the only way I can see the two of them both having freedom of action in their respective loops.

OTOH, the same could be true for every person in the universe.
  #114  
Old 10-04-2010, 06:00 PM
Posaune Pat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleciders View Post
Is "muscle memory" physiologically resident in the muscles? I thought that it was, in the end, resident in the brain, albeit below the conscious level.

Learning an instrument, for instance, requires brain power AND progressive building of hundreds of small muscles (fingers and arms for piano, facial muscles and arms for my instrument). I took 2 years off of trombone playing years ago, and though I kept "mentally practicing" nearly every day, it took six months of work once I started again just to regain most of my tone, flexibility, and endurance.
  #115  
Old 10-04-2010, 06:09 PM
gaffa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopygal View Post
Why, at the very end, does he say 'We'll rent first'?
I just watched the director's commentary. It was just an ad lib by Bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytegeist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
Phil breaks the cycle when he stops being a jerk and learns to love Punxsutawney. He goes with the flow and the flow takes him out of the loop.
My own (not serious) pet theory: Phil is released from the time loop when he finally agrees to buy life insurance from Ned.
Is Ned god?

The documentary "The Weight of Time" is great, and Stephen Tobolowsky has a very thoughtful perspective. He points out that Phil's "reward" is for time to start again, for him to grow old and die. But of course Phil has killed himself so many times that death should hold no particular fear. And he knows that there if a power greater than himself. Other people have faith but Phil has had a limitless power demonstrated to him.

This is one of the rare movies where the IMDB user reviews are worth reading.

The biggest mystery is how the writer has managed to have no career. He had one other movie in 1993 and one in 1994. That's it! (There was an Italian remake).

All I can figure is that he gets paid to write scripts that never make it into production, or never writes anything that gets him credited.
  #116  
Old 10-04-2010, 06:26 PM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
I've seen that other movie (SFW). It's actually pretty interesting too, in a very indy movie sort of way. It's about a guy who becomes a national celebrity after being part of a group hostages in a convenience store robbery in which the assailants demand that the whole siege get broadcast live on television. The country becomes fascinated with the broadcast and one hostage (played by Stephen Doriff) becomes seen as a hero because of his smart-ass commentary and indifference to the situation. His repeated refrain of "so fucking what" becomes a catchphrase. After it's over (and most of the movie takes place afterwards. The hostage situation is only shown in flashbacks), the protagonist is annoyed by his celebrity and the stupid repition of the catchphrase. The movie is kind of a satire of reality television and the phenomenon of people getting famous for being famous. It also feature a then unknown Reese Witherspoon as a fellow hostage (and lover intesrt for the protagonist) as well as a hilarious cameo by a young Toby McGuire as a starstruck, stoner fan who encounters the protagonist on the street.
  #117  
Old 10-04-2010, 06:42 PM
Bytegeist is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffa View Post
Is Ned god?
BING!

I am the light of the world. BING!
I am the way, the truth, and the life. BING!
I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved. BING!

I dated your sister a couple times, until you told me not to.

Last edited by Bytegeist; 10-04-2010 at 06:43 PM.
  #118  
Old 10-04-2010, 08:30 PM
Moe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleciders View Post
Is "muscle memory" physiologically resident in the muscles? I thought that it was, in the end, resident in the brain, albeit below the conscious level.
To add to what Pat said, yes "muscle memory" most certainly requires the training of very specific muscles in concert with what happens in the brain. I've been playing guitar for over 20 years and can play at a pretty high level, BUT, let's say I flip the guitar over and try to play lefty. If it was purely in the brain it would stand to reason that I should be able to make the adjustment relatively quickly, but in actuality I can hardly get a single note to sound right.

(actually, thinking about it, it would be a very interesting experiment, should we ever successfully manage to transplant brains, to see if the brain of a musician could learn to play the same instrument in its new body before the old body with a new brain but with trained hand/finger muscles could.)

I think if Phil had at least some natural talent to begin with he could play the piano as well as he did with 4-5 years of steady practice. He played well and it was quite musical, but (and this is something I always found to be a really nice touch in the movie) he was not playing anything particularly virtuosic or unreasonably difficult. He was playing a blues (5 notes and 3 chords at the most basic level) which is manageable in a relatively short amount of time. I found his playing to be at a perfectly appropriate and believable level for his general character (it would've rang a bit off if he got up there and played the Goldberg Variations for example).
  #119  
Old 10-04-2010, 08:43 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
I'm thinking what the world needs is a GROUNDHOGCON. Get all the cast members to come and sign autographs, as well as the writers and producer and director. Have seminars on all these issues of how it could be done in real life. Time travel, muscle memory, piano teachers, ice sculptors, drunk guys at bars.

I wonder if you could get enough fans to show up to pay the appearance fees and all that?
  #120  
Old 10-04-2010, 09:28 PM
gaffa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe View Post
I think if Phil had at least some natural talent to begin with...
His father was a piano mover.

Last edited by gaffa; 10-04-2010 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Wrong attribution
  #121  
Old 10-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
[QUOTE=gaffa;12988276]
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopygal View Post
...
The documentary "The Weight of Time" is great, and Stephen Tobolowsky has a very thoughtful perspective. He points out that Phil's "reward" is for time to start again, for him to grow old and die. But of course Phil has killed himself so many times that death should hold no particular fear. And he knows that there if a power greater than himself. Other people have faith but Phil has had a limitless power demonstrated to him.
....
I found a rather extensive (about 40 min.) commentary by Stephen Tobolowsky, almost all of it about Groundhog Day. Some interesting stuff that I never came across before, Like the entire movie was shot several times over in various weather conditions, so Harold Ramis would be able to later decide what kind of day the repeating day was going to be, and they would be able to match that weather choice with one of every outdoor scene. Also, the entire cast and crew voted on whether, on the last night before the time loop was broken, Phil and Rita "did it" or not.
  #122  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:06 AM
gaffa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
I found a rather extensive (about 40 min.) commentary by Stephen Tobolowsky, almost all of it about Groundhog Day. Some interesting stuff that I never came across before, Like the entire movie was shot several times over in various weather conditions, so Harold Ramis would be able to later decide what kind of day the repeating day was going to be, and they would be able to match that weather choice with one of every outdoor scene. Also, the entire cast and crew voted on whether, on the last night before the time loop was broken, Phil and Rita "did it" or not.
Thank you for that! I'd be willing to pay yet again for Groundhog Day if I could get a commentary by Stephen Tobolowsky.
  #123  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:08 AM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
So just for the hell of it, I found Stephen Tobolowsky's email address, wrote to him with some comments about the movie and a link to this thread -- along with an invitation to browse it or even to join in.

I also threw out the idea of a 2013 20th anniversary of the film cast/crew/fan reunion/convention in Punxsutawney, and asked him it he knew whether anyone was working on some kind of anniversary event. And whether he thought the idea has any merit.
  #124  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:44 AM
gaffa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
So just for the hell of it, I found Stephen Tobolowsky's email address, wrote to him with some comments about the movie and a link to this thread -- along with an invitation to browse it or even to join in.

I also threw out the idea of a 2013 20th anniversary of the film cast/crew/fan reunion/convention in Punxsutawney, and asked him it he knew whether anyone was working on some kind of anniversary event. And whether he thought the idea has any merit.
Why there? Have it where the film was actually made, in Woodstock, IL. According to the DVD commentary, the town has put plaques up in various locations used in the film. Punxsutawney had nothing to do with the filming of Groundhog Day.
  #125  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:53 AM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Don't really care where, but one thought was that the city town might underwrite part of the expenses for public relations sake. And probably 90% of the people who saw it think it was filmed there.
  #126  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:57 AM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
I don't know if it has Lebowski Fest type potential. It doesn't have the kind of characters and quotabilty to sustain that kind of cult-ability. While it's a very good movie, and (like The Big Lebowski) a movie that has become more and more appreciated over time than it was at the time, I think Groundhog Day is a very unsual movie in that what's really good about it lies in what kind of musings and contemplations it provokes in the viewer rather than what's necessarily on screen.

The first time I saw the movie, back when it originally came out, I saw it as a light entertainment. Pleasant enough and amusing, sort of clever, but it didn't strike me at the time as an enduring classic. It wasn't until repeated viewings that I started to realize how much it stuck in my head, and how I still found myself thinking about it the day after watching it on HBO the night before. I think that most everybody who watches the movie finds themself contemplating what they would do in that situation, what exactly it took to break the cycle and all the related philosophical questions that go along with it. It's a rare movie that can provoke that amount of reflection, and I think it does it by not appearing to do it. The light comedy form is deceptive with this movie and the premise itself is an extraordinarily compelling hook for continued rumination and discussion, and it provokes this kind of thought without an ounce of preachiness, pedantry or ponderous (onscreen) naval gazing. That's the movie's charm, it's endlessly fun to think about and talk about the scenario it presents, but it's not really a movie that lends itself to the kinds of homage (quotability, imitation of characters and scenes) that other cult movies like Lebowski do.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 10-05-2010 at 01:00 AM.
  #127  
Old 10-05-2010, 10:39 AM
Quimby is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,582
Here's a question:

If it were you, how many go around would you have to go through until you were absolutely sure you wouldn't have to suffer any consequences of your actions?

I think I would always have a nagging doubt in my mind that "Maybe this will be the day I wake up on February 3rd so i better not screw up too badly." At least until at some point I accidentally died and then still woke up again. I think that would convince me.
  #128  
Old 10-05-2010, 10:46 AM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
Here's a question:

If it were you, how many go around would you have to go through until you were absolutely sure you wouldn't have to suffer any consequences of your actions?

I think I would always have a nagging doubt in my mind that "Maybe this will be the day I wake up on February 3rd so i better not screw up too badly." At least until at some point I accidentally died and then still woke up again. I think that would convince me.
What I'm thinking is that the first suicide would be a desperate attempt to break out at any cost. Once I woke up after driving a truck over a cliff and exploding, I would be pretty damn sure about the lack of consequences.
  #129  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Lightnin''s Avatar
Lightnin' is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 7,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
Here's a question:

If it were you, how many go around would you have to go through until you were absolutely sure you wouldn't have to suffer any consequences of your actions?
A couple of dozen times, at least. Maybe a few hundred, even. Since he didn't know what caused the repeating day to start, he'd never know if it was going to end, or not. Each day could, conceivably, be the last repeater, and time could restart. At what point are you willing to take the chance that your actions would, finally, matter? It'd be a while, for me.

And, since I believe that each day would spin off its own reality, I wouldn't want to do anything which would have lasting, bad effects upon anyone else.

Maybe a way to look at is that he's getting to make his own, perfect reality. He gets to pick and choose what his future's going to be.

I'm reminded of another "Groundhog Day" -type movie which came out at roughly the same time- 12:01. In that movie, our hero is able to affect the way things eventually turn out- but it bugs me that he didn't end things on a perfect note. If you're repeating, and you have the power to stop the cycle, why end it on anything other than an absolutely perfect day?
  #130  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:26 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
To those of you who think Phil spent a fairly short time in the loop (say 2-5 years), how long would it take before you are driven to attempt suicide, again and again, in an attempt to break free, even though it results in death?

Last edited by Boyo Jim; 10-05-2010 at 12:26 PM.
  #131  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:18 PM
Satchmo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE, USA
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
To those of you who think Phil spent a fairly short time in the loop (say 2-5 years), how long would it take before you are driven to attempt suicide, again and again, in an attempt to break free, even though it results in death?
Several years for me, I think. Some thoughts I always had about this movie, I tend to think he was in the loop for a long, long time. Probably several hundred years, certainly over 100. I also think he went really crazy for a long time. We don't see that, except for the suicide attempts, but like someone said above, he 'came out the other side' eventually. One thing that struck me early on, after a few hundred days, Phil himself would have no idea how long he'd been repeating. Sure he could start out, remembering "This is the 14th time I've repeated the same day!" But how long before he stops caring? How long before he goes crazy and doesn't remember? Also, I believe he would eventually start forgetting details, because even though his mind isn't wiped every night, time is still passing for him mentally.
Great thread.
Great movie.
  #132  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Chopper9760 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
To those of you who think Phil spent a fairly short time in the loop (say 2-5 years), how long would it take before you are driven to attempt suicide, again and again, in an attempt to break free, even though it results in death?
I don't think it would take all that long. It would take a while to accept that the day was really repeating and I imagine spending many days trying to escape the town and/or the time loop.

If I really got stuck in a time loop I would be freaked out and spend many, many days on escape before it occurred to me to try to get laid or improve my piano/Jeopardy skills. In fact, I think I would be considering suicide as escape well before sex/piano/Jeopardy - 2-5 years doesn't seem out of line to me.

Man I want to watch Groundhog Day so badly now.
  #133  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:56 PM
Bosstone is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 15,368
For anyone with a Netflix account, it IS available as Instant Play.
  #134  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:01 PM
gaffa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
One thing that struck me early on, after a few hundred days, Phil himself would have no idea how long he'd been repeating. Sure he could start out, remembering "This is the 14th time I've repeated the same day!" But how long before he stops caring? How long before he goes crazy and doesn't remember? Also, I believe he would eventually start forgetting details, because even though his mind isn't wiped every night, time is still passing for him mentally.
Great thread.
Great movie.
In the director's commentary, he said that Phil measured time by reading one page a day in a book.
  #135  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:15 PM
Lightnin''s Avatar
Lightnin' is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 7,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffa View Post
In the director's commentary, he said that Phil measured time by reading one page a day in a book.
Clever. Of course, the entire movie is clever.
  #136  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:17 PM
Freddy the Pig is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 7,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffa View Post
Why there? Have it where the film was actually made, in Woodstock, IL. According to the DVD commentary, the town has put plaques up in various locations used in the film. Punxsutawney had nothing to do with the filming of Groundhog Day.
I took a stroll around the town square a while back, and the only plaque I could find was the one on the wall saying "Ned's Corner". The plaque marking Murray's puddle step seems to have vanished.

By Gad, I'm getting up early and going to Woodstock next 2/2. Anybody wants to meet me there, PM me in January.
  #137  
Old 10-05-2010, 09:21 PM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffa View Post
Why there? Have it where the film was actually made, in Woodstock, IL. According to the DVD commentary, the town has put plaques up in various locations used in the film. Punxsutawney had nothing to do with the filming of Groundhog Day.
I took a stroll around the town square a while back, and the only plaque I could find was the one on the wall saying "Ned's Corner". The plaque marking Murray's puddle step seems to have vanished.
I heard they actually tried to do a Tip Top Diner at that location in the wake of the movie but that it did not succeed.
  #138  
Old 10-06-2010, 12:14 AM
BigT's Avatar
BigT is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: "Hicksville", Ark.
Posts: 37,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffa View Post
In the director's commentary, he said that Phil measured time by reading one page a day in a book.
Well, even if that book is a Bible, that's still matches the 10,000 days estimate. That's 27.3790926 years.

Also, did any of you see the Christmas version of this trope, called Christmas Every Day? I liked the idea that the kid absolutely could not save everyone. He tried listening to the news, and stopping everything they mentioned, but then the B stories made the news instead. They also stuck with the perfect day thing.

I feel less inclined to see the movie (GD) any time soon, as I agree it sounds depressing being stuck like that for that long. I mean, one year of being housebound really grates on me, even though there are changes every day.
  #139  
Old 10-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,433
I would love to see a sequel. Bill Murray and Andie MacDowell as they've aged now, and one day it starts happening again. For no discernible reason, of course.
  #140  
Old 10-06-2010, 08:42 AM
Freddy the Pig is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 7,988
Man, re-entry would be tough. After that long in a loop he'd be overwhelmed by new situations and new conversations. If he hadn't gone crazy before, he would then.
  #141  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:03 AM
6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: L x Heaven R x Hell
Posts: 2,306
How long does Bill Murray spend in Punxsutawney? 8 years, 8 months, and 16 days apparently...

Last edited by 6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast; 10-06-2010 at 09:04 AM.
  #142  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:11 AM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Yeah, well that's as much of a guess as any of the others here.
  #143  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:09 AM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast View Post
How long does Bill Murray spend in Punxsutawney? 8 years, 8 months, and 16 days apparently...
And in my post #80, the director himself, Harold Ramis, directly refutes that Wolf Gnarls reckoning. Again it's here, and he says:

“I think the 10-year estimate is too short. It takes at least 10 years to get good at anything, and, alloting for the down time and misguided years he spent, it had to be more like 30 or 40 years … People have way too much time on their hands. They could be learning to play the piano or speak French or sculpt ice.”

Last edited by Siam Sam; 10-06-2010 at 10:09 AM.
  #144  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Bytegeist is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
Man, re-entry would be tough. After that long in a loop he'd be overwhelmed by new situations and new conversations. If he hadn't gone crazy before, he would then.
I agree with this, and I think they underplayed the moment when the loop finally ends. He re-adapts to normalcy much too quickly and easily, given what he's been through. But the film's supposed to have a happy ending, so you can understand the dramatic choice.

To be more realistic (but not necessarily better), the film should have had him screaming with fright the instant Rita spoke and stretched her arm across him.
  #145  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:53 AM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,433
My DVD's Special Features also informs me of a couple of scenes that were cut or they decided not to film. One was Phil taking everyone back to his boarding house, and I mean everyone who's in the movie, where he throws a wild party in which everyone trashes the entire place. I'm kind of glad they dropped that idea.
  #146  
Old 10-06-2010, 12:57 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
I received two emailed replies from Stephen Tobolowsky.

He went to Punxsutawney last year for Groundhog day, but has no idea whether the town has the logistic capability to handle a cast crew reunion. He has no idea of whether the cast/crew would be interested or able (because of other commitments) to do a reunion. And he says that the idea of Ned being in his own time loop is interesting, so it may be that he hasn't heard that one before.

I will send him as gracious a reply as I am able.
  #147  
Old 10-06-2010, 01:00 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Also, it now strikes me that having an event there in central Pennsylvania, on Groundhog day in the middle of winter, isn't going to be appealing to anyone.
  #148  
Old 10-06-2010, 03:48 PM
Skammer's Avatar
Skammer is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 14,216
Why was I so positive that Tobolowsky had died last year? I wonder who I was thinking of?
  #149  
Old 10-06-2010, 05:50 PM
Wendell Wagner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Greenbelt, Maryland
Posts: 14,537
Maybe because two years ago he broke his neck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Tobolowsky
  #150  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:41 PM
Clothahump is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
Just saw the Bill Murray flick again, and wondered how many times Bill had to relive the same day in order to learn all he had to learn about the PA town Punk-something?
From IMDB:

Quote:
On the DVD, Harold Ramis states that the original idea was for him to live February 2nd for about 10,000 years. Later he says that Phil probably lived the same day for about 10 years.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017