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  #151  
Old 10-06-2010, 11:06 PM
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Just saw the Bill Murray flick again, and wondered how many times Bill had to relive the same day in order to learn all he had to learn about the PA town Punk-something?
From IMDB:

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On the DVD, Harold Ramis states that the original idea was for him to live February 2nd for about 10,000 years. Later he says that Phil probably lived the same day for about 10 years.
Aha! That's probably where I got my 10,000-years notion. I'd forgotten about that. But then, of course, Ramis later changed that to 30 or 40 years. I'm sticking with 10,000 years myself.
  #152  
Old 10-07-2010, 09:11 AM
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Why, at the very end, does he say 'We'll rent first'?
I thought Phil was just making a joke that he knew would go over Rita's head. He's been there for years and years already (how many is obviously open to debate) and knows everything about the town and its people. If he likes it enough to stay, he'd buy, not rent. Renting, in this context, implies that he might learn something about the town that would make him not want to stay there. Fat chance of that.
  #153  
Old 10-07-2010, 11:14 AM
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I've seen that other movie (SFW).
SFW also has one of the greatest soundtracks of that decade.
  #154  
Old 10-07-2010, 05:13 PM
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Its a MOVIE! you know the answer is going to be like a thousand years or something. But we will never know. Its a little thing movies do like what was in the suitcase in Pulp Fiction
  #155  
Old 10-07-2010, 07:14 PM
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Purple bladed lightsaber, jeez. Everyone knows that.
  #156  
Old 10-07-2010, 09:11 PM
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Its a MOVIE! you know the answer is going to be like a thousand years or something. But we will never know. Its a little thing movies do like what was in the suitcase in Pulp Fiction
I know exactly what was in that suitcase. It was a MacGuffin.
  #157  
Old 02-05-2011, 10:22 AM
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A blogger does some calculating here: http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/feat...undhog-day.php

He concludes the total is a shade under 34 years. I think some of his assumptions are faulty, but his approach is solid enough that I think his conclusion is in the right ballpark. Maybe it was 25 years, maybe it was 50, but it doesn't seem to be 100 or 1,000.
  #158  
Old 02-05-2011, 02:59 PM
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I have nothing to add on the length of the loop, but want to say that Day 36, "Sexually harassing Ned", was my favorite Day.
  #159  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:11 PM
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I've always felt that Phil's line, "Let's live here!" was too much like "He loved Big Brother." It seems to indicate that his spirit has been broken by the ordeal. Imagine a guy in prison for 30 years. He does his time, he's getting out, and... he doesn't want to leave! He knows this world inside out and all the choices available to him on the outside are just too overwhelming.

The scene where he goes joyriding on the railroad tracks is the only scene that even hints at why he became just a sulky, mean bastard in the first place. Apparently his parents made him sit up straight, eat his vegetables and refrain from hitting his sister. Wow, that's rough, dude. Maybe there's more to it than that, but in any case we see that Phil is a guy who can hold on to resentment like nobody's business. He's clearly not stupid, but his bad attitude keeps him from making progress towards becoming a nicer person. He must "waste" a lot of time.
  #160  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:41 PM
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I would love to see a sequel. Bill Murray and Andie MacDowell as they've aged now, and one day it starts happening again. For no discernible reason, of course.
To both of them. That could be pretty damn cool.
  #161  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:46 PM
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I've always felt that Phil's line, "Let's live here!" was too much like "He loved Big Brother." It seems to indicate that his spirit has been broken by the ordeal. Imagine a guy in prison for 30 years. He does his time, he's getting out, and... he doesn't want to leave! He knows this world inside out and all the choices available to him on the outside are just too overwhelming....
I think pretty much the total opposite. He hated the place as a nowhere hicksville when he got there. But he learned pretty much everything there was to learn about the town and the people and he grew to love it all.

And his spirit wasn't broken. He remade himself into a better person and learned all kinds of cool skills, though it probably took him a while to decide to do it.
  #162  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:58 PM
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Sorry, this has probably been mentioned (and I can't believe I'M saying this) but isn't the whole point of the film is that he changes enough to consummate a relationship with Andie, his true love?

Ah, love and fate.
  #163  
Old 02-05-2011, 06:39 PM
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But he doesn't actually consummate it, and he learns to be okay with that.
  #164  
Old 02-05-2011, 06:41 PM
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How many groundhogs for this zombie thread?
  #165  
Old 02-05-2011, 06:46 PM
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Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold out there today.
  #166  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:20 PM
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But he doesn't actually consummate it, and he learns to be okay with that.
Sure he does. But it's really by changing himself enough to make it happen.

It seems while he knows he's stuck, he forgets about Andie and only cares about himself, soon he starts to really give a shit about other people, then his fateful love can accept him because he's no longer bad, he's good and good for others.

To me it's basically like the cosmos said, "Okay, news schmuck, you're an asshole. Everyone knows this everywhere you go. But your one true love is the only way out of this, so you better freaking change. If you don't, we'll make you live the day you change over and over until you get it. Mwah ha ha ha haaaa!"

For as much of an ass as he is, I'm leaning towards over a thousand days! Hell, he was even insulted by sharing his name with a groundhog.
  #167  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:23 PM
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How many groundhogs for this zombie thread?
This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
  #168  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:27 PM
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Sure he does. But it's really by changing himself enough to make it happen.

It seems while he knows he's stuck, he forgets about Andie and only cares about himself, soon he starts to really give a shit about other people, then his fateful love can accept him because he's no longer bad, he's good and good for others.

To me it's basically like the cosmos said, "Okay, news schmuck, you're an asshole. Everyone knows this everywhere you go. But your one true love is the only way out of this, so you better freaking change. If you don't, we'll make you live the day you change over and over until you get it. Mwah ha ha ha haaaa!"

For as much of an ass as he is, I'm leaning towards over a thousand days! Hell, he was even insulted by sharing his name with a groundhog.
It is explicitly said at the end that they did not "do it". Now, the next night...
  #169  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:49 PM
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
And it's only 3 days late.
  #170  
Old 02-05-2011, 09:12 PM
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I prefer to think of it as 362 days early.
  #171  
Old 02-05-2011, 09:52 PM
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I think pretty much the total opposite. He hated the place as a nowhere hicksville when he got there. But he learned pretty much everything there was to learn about the town and the people and he grew to love it all.

And his spirit wasn't broken. He remade himself into a better person and learned all kinds of cool skills, though it probably took him a while to decide to do it.
But... he's done everything there is to do in Punxsutawney! It ain't no Bedford Falls, ya know!

Wow, but I bet he's weirdly disoriented for a long time afterward. Watch what you say, Phil! No do-overs now!
  #172  
Old 02-05-2011, 09:55 PM
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I have the oddest feeling that I've posted in this thread before....
  #173  
Old 02-05-2011, 10:06 PM
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
  #174  
Old 02-06-2011, 12:43 AM
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It is explicitly said at the end that they did not "do it". Now, the next night...
Yes, that's true. But they are talking about buying property in Punxatawney, so I think you're right on "the next night".

So maybe it's "you built yourself to be good, now you're free to spread the goodness" kinda thing??

I'm watching this tonight again. Getting drunk first.
  #175  
Old 02-06-2011, 12:47 AM
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
I see what you did there.
  #176  
Old 02-06-2011, 12:57 AM
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A blogger does some calculating here: http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/feat...undhog-day.php

He concludes the total is a shade under 34 years. I think some of his assumptions are faulty, but his approach is solid enough that I think his conclusion is in the right ballpark. Maybe it was 25 years, maybe it was 50, but it doesn't seem to be 100 or 1,000.
I definitely don't like some of his assumptions. Only 7,000 hours to learn to play piano that way? I just don't believe that he knocked that out in only four or five years. But still, it's an interesting exercise and I think he's close enough to argue the point.
  #177  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:21 AM
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re the OP - if you go by Hollywood standards, where you can learn kungfu with a montage, then less than a hundred years. he wasn't depicted as a jack of all trades, master of none. it was implied that he mastered and perfected everything by that last day. that surely takes several lifetimes to achieve.

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Ok, I'm a pedant but two things about the notion that "getting it on" was the solution for advancing to Feb 3:

1. He kissed her many times before when he was trying to seduce her and that never advanced the date.

2. She makes it clear that they didn't do anything much (in the intimate sense) the night before.


My Deepish opinion
I prefer to believe that the movie is about salvation and while the selfish, egocentric Phil Connors continues to use the day for selfish means, he is doomed to repeat it. It is only once he discovers that he can use his situation for the good of others that he is saved from his predicament and Rita comes to love him.
so the cycle was finally broken by True Love's Kiss - the most powerful thing in the world!
  #178  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:48 AM
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How many groundhogs for this zombie thread?
God how many times are you going to keep asking that? I've told you like 24,000 times.
  #179  
Old 02-06-2011, 08:22 AM
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
  #180  
Old 02-06-2011, 08:57 AM
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re the OP - if you go by Hollywood standards, where you can learn kungfu with a montage, then less than a hundred years. he wasn't depicted as a jack of all trades, master of none. it was implied that he mastered and perfected everything by that last day. that surely takes several lifetimes to achieve.
As has been discussed further upthread, Phil doesn't need to go to work or anything - he can devote all the time he wants to the pursuit of those skills. He also wasn't exactly playing a Rachmaninov piano concerto, either - he was playing Boogie Woogie on a digital piano, you don't need a lifetime to perfect that, if you put your mind to it and practice every day, as he could.

Same with some of the other stuff - I'm sure it wouldn't take a lot more than a day to really get to know a person from the town (I'm sure he wasn't trying to seduce most of them, like with Rita).
  #181  
Old 02-06-2011, 11:14 AM
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I don't know where you're headed, Ned, but do you think maybe you could call in sick?
  #182  
Old 02-06-2011, 11:21 AM
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As has been discussed further upthread, Phil doesn't need to go to work or anything - he can devote all the time he wants to the pursuit of those skills. He also wasn't exactly playing a Rachmaninov piano concerto, either - he was playing Boogie Woogie on a digital piano, you don't need a lifetime to perfect that, if you put your mind to it and practice every day, as he could.

Same with some of the other stuff - I'm sure it wouldn't take a lot more than a day to really get to know a person from the town (I'm sure he wasn't trying to seduce most of them, like with Rita).
I'm sure he worked at screwing every attractive woman in town -- who wouldn't? That's probably two days each, one to learn enough about them and one to use the knowledge.
  #183  
Old 02-06-2011, 11:28 AM
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I just realized that his scheduled might get more and more restricted as repeating days continued. He would conceivably discover more and things he would need to do every single day, like saving the kid falling out of the tree -- he even said he saved him every day. And saving the guy from choking, and fixing the other guy's bad back, and changing the tire for the old ladies, and who knows what else. Anything he witnesses that he could intervene to save someone, he would need to intervene every time.

Plus he probably had to rob the armored car almost every day to finance whatever he did the rest of the day, like taking piano lessons every day for years.
  #184  
Old 02-06-2011, 02:54 PM
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I always wondered why the piano teacher was so proud of him being her student. She had no way of knowing that he had begun lessons with her, she'd only known him for one day.
  #185  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:34 PM
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Good point. And by the time he got that good, he probably would have stopped having lessons and merely practised every so often, so on that day he would never have been her student. Maybe having a "lesson" was the only place to practice. But yeah, from her point of view she had not improved his playing significantly even if she had met him at all.
  #186  
Old 02-06-2011, 04:06 PM
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Good point. And by the time he got that good, he probably would have stopped having lessons and merely practised every so often, so on that day he would never have been her student. Maybe having a "lesson" was the only place to practice. But yeah, from her point of view she had not improved his playing significantly even if she had met him at all.
I believe that's part of his day of helping people - he makes the teacher believe that he's really never played the piano before, and that he's so good because of her. That's what makes her reaction so funny - of course no sensible teacher would assume they had anything to do with it, but she just wants to be proud of "her" student.
  #187  
Old 02-06-2011, 04:15 PM
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Good point. And by the time he got that good, he probably would have stopped having lessons and merely practised every so often, so on that day he would never have been her student. Maybe having a "lesson" was the only place to practice. But yeah, from her point of view she had not improved his playing significantly even if she had met him at all.
But he was her student on the last Groundhog Day, because she knew him at the party and was proud. So he maintained the pretense of being a student until the very end. Though it's true, after enough studenting, he could have simply rented her piano to keep in practice, or he could have found dome other piano in town, like in a bar or theater, to use for practice.
  #188  
Old 02-06-2011, 05:40 PM
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Good point. And by the time he got that good, he probably would have stopped having lessons and merely practised every so often, so on that day he would never have been her student. Maybe having a "lesson" was the only place to practice. But yeah, from her point of view she had not improved his playing significantly even if she had met him at all.
I always read that as the piano teacher boasting about her connection to the most popular man in the room, no matter how tenuous that connection is from her point of view.

Phil saying, "Excuse me ma'am, I'm really just booking a lesson so I can practice." becomes, "I taught him to play piano." She says it without even realizing it's true.
  #189  
Old 02-06-2011, 06:17 PM
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In the opening scene, his anchorwoman says that it will be his third year in a row.

Phil replies that it will be "four."

So they start the movie with a bit of confusion about time.
  #190  
Old 02-06-2011, 06:42 PM
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I thought she was getting in a dig at him, on air. "You're still doing the Punxsutawney gig? Your career is really going nowhere, huh?"
  #191  
Old 02-06-2011, 09:44 PM
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I definitely don't like some of his assumptions. Only 7,000 hours to learn to play piano that way? I just don't believe that he knocked that out in only four or five years. But still, it's an interesting exercise and I think he's close enough to argue the point.
And of course, his father was a piano mover, don't forget.
  #192  
Old 02-08-2011, 09:46 AM
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I guess bumping this thread has become a SDMB tradition similar to old Rudolph

Last edited by Annie-Xmas; 02-08-2011 at 09:47 AM.
  #193  
Old 02-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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We've only bumped it once. But it's the same bump over and over again.
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  #194  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:17 AM
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I definitely don't like some of his assumptions. Only 7,000 hours to learn to play piano that way? I just don't believe that he knocked that out in only four or five years. But still, it's an interesting exercise and I think he's close enough to argue the point.
I think a larger faulty assumption is that Phil had to limit his piano playing lest he get carpal tunnel. In a universe where you can literally kill yourself and wake up in bed the next morning, I don't think you can assume anything remotely like that.
  #195  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:32 AM
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This is the 5th reanimation of this thread. Makes a guy kinda proud.
  #196  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:40 AM
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So, from Rita's (Andie MacDowell) point of view, Phil (Murray) changes overnight into a completely different person, and/so she sleeps with him.

I forget. Did they have a relationship prior to "the day"?
  #197  
Old 02-08-2011, 12:02 PM
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I thought she was getting in a dig at him, on air. "You're still doing the Punxsutawney gig? Your career is really going nowhere, huh?"
I've always thought that too. All the talking heads seem a little bitchy with each other.

mlees: I don't think so. Rita was the new producer, and I think they had just met that morning. She only knew of his jerkdom from the ride to Punxsutawney. Phil had a existing acquaintance with the camera guy, Larry, who should have been more stunned by the change.
  #198  
Old 02-08-2011, 12:06 PM
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I've always thought that too. All the talking heads seem a little bitchy with each other.

mlees: I don't think so. Rita was the new producer, and I think they had just met that morning. She only knew of his jerkdom from the ride to Punxsutawney. Phil had a existing acquaintance with the camera guy, Larry, who should have been more stunned by the change.
Ah. Ok. I thought she worked with Phil longer than that.

I suppose she could have assumed feel was just grumpy on 1 Feb. We all have bad days.
  #199  
Old 02-08-2011, 01:18 PM
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Whether Rita was new or whether they had just never worked together before, you just know Phil has a reputation for being "difficult" and Rita had heard about it, probably before she ever laid eyes on him.
  #200  
Old 02-08-2011, 03:19 PM
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Judging by the give-and-take in the van on their way to Punx., I don't think they'd worked together much before then, if at all.
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