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  #201  
Old 02-08-2011, 05:36 PM
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How many groundhogs for this zombie thread?
Hey--I've been reading this thread every day since it was originally posted. It's nice to see some new material in it once in a while.
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  #202  
Old 02-08-2011, 08:45 PM
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At the beginning, the substitute weatherman while Phil is away -- the guy who later went on to become Carrie's gay friend on Sex and the City -- asks Phil if he's met Rita yet, "the new producer." "I think she's going to be a lot of fun," the substitute says. So I think they just met that day, February 1.

At the end, she complains good-naturedly about Phil's having simply fallen asleep the night before because he was so tired. "Phil, why weren't you like this last night?" So no, they did not do the rumpy-pumpy that night. However, we can't be sure what happened between that scene and when they went outside, heh.
  #203  
Old 02-14-2011, 04:44 PM
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I just first saw Groundhog day after stumbling on this thread last week.
<Nitpick>
First, the sun doesn't come up until 7:09 AM in Punxsutawney on Feb 2nd.

Second even if he could learn to play a piano in his memories in however many years, he could never have built up the stamina and blood flow in his arm and finger muscles to play like that for more than a minute or two without major arm fatigue.

Also much of learning to play an instrument, or any real time skill, is growing new neural pathways to allow coordination of movements at high speed, it's what humans do.

So he was either allowed to keep neural growth from day to day (Supported by the fact he could remember from day to day) or he was unchanged and no amount of practice on one day is every going to make the neural connections happen.
</Nitpick>

Last edited by MacGyverInSeattle; 02-14-2011 at 04:46 PM.
  #204  
Old 02-14-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MacGyverInSeattle View Post
I just first saw Groundhog day after stumbling on this thread last week.
<Nitpick>
First, the sun doesn't come up until 7:09 AM in Punxsutawney on Feb 2nd.

Second even if he could learn to play a piano in his memories in however many years, he could never have built up the stamina and blood flow in his arm and finger muscles to play like that for more than a minute or two without major arm fatigue.

Also much of learning to play an instrument, or any real time skill, is growing new neural pathways to allow coordination of movements at high speed, it's what humans do.

So he was either allowed to keep neural growth from day to day (Supported by the fact he could remember from day to day) or he was unchanged and no amount of practice on one day is every going to make the neural connections happen.
</Nitpick>
Since he committed suicide any number of ways and always woke up fine the next morning, I'd have to guess there was no growing of neural pathways. OTOH, maybe memory itself is rewiring of neural pathways, and he could do that.

Eh, I suppose we just have to assume magic is involved because there is no way to figure out some plausible explanation by physics or physiology.
  #205  
Old 02-14-2011, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
Since he committed suicide any number of ways and always woke up fine the next morning, I'd have to guess there was no growing of neural pathways. OTOH, maybe memory itself is rewiring of neural pathways, and he could do that.

Eh, I suppose we just have to assume magic is involved because there is no way to figure out some plausible explanation by physics or physiology.
That's what I figure. Whatever is funneling him into becoming the man he ends up as erases the bad damage from suicide and such but allows the good changes to continue on.
  #206  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:46 AM
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... when Phil is told the old man had died, he pushes his way past the nurse and looks at the old guy's medical chart. He was looking at it - reading it - the way a doctor would, not a layperson trying to make sense of the scribbles and notations. ...
they never showed him looking at the chart in the movie. i think this is a good example of the "alternate ending to Big" phenomenon.
  #207  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:12 PM
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Bumping this thread again, if that is still allowed. Being in lockdown because of Covid-19 gives life a slight tinge of restarting the same day over and over again.

I still find Groundhog day an inspiring movie, as it underlines the gift of time which we can use to improve ourselves and others, or simply waste. While scientifically you can nitpick that muscle-memory would obliterate any improvement in piano-playing, I feel that this is somewhat beside the point as the entire premise of the movie is of course in violation of physics. If we have to allow a person to remember a restart of time, we have to allow some way to 'save state' (to use a computer metaphor). And it would not be interesting if that would preclude any change in physical capabilities. If there is no memory of earlier restarts, you get a very bleak result (which is touched upon in the movie ARQ).

Incidentally, I like how the Groundhog theme has become a trope to revisit, such as in the excellent Russian Doll series. That had a similar uplifting sentiment while simultaneously being completly different.
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  #208  
Old 03-26-2020, 05:19 PM
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On the DVD, Harold Ramis states that the original idea was for Phil to live February 2nd for about ten thousand years. Later, he says that Phil probably lived the same day for about ten years.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048...item=tr0673772
  #209  
Old 03-26-2020, 05:25 PM
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Don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but you would think that after long enough Phil would become "institutionalized", and would be terrified of having on to a new day where he doesn't know what is going to happen.
  #210  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:17 AM
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This is the 6th bumping of this thread. (Although 2 are single posts.)

It's cold out there.
  #211  
Old 03-28-2020, 12:41 AM
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I think February 3rd, and every day after that, would shape up to be a colossal letdown.

Phil only had that perfect day because he had 10,000 chances to perfect that. He only caught the kid falling out of the tree, saved the man from choking because he knew exactly how everything would go. He can't do that any other day, he's without a script like the rest of us. So anyone who thought he was some sort of superman is in for a big disappointment.

What about the longtime Punxatawny resident who was out of town on February 2nd attending a funeral? What's he going to think of this character who seems to know everyone after being in town a whole day? "You know them so well, but you don't seem to know a damn thing about me! You're just a big phony!"
  #212  
Old 03-28-2020, 10:16 AM
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I think February 3rd, and every day after that, would shape up to be a colossal letdown.
I've often wondered (and maybe even posted this before....) whether each repeat is the "last" for that version of Phil. It's a "parallel worlds" movie. Each repeat starts a new timeline that continues.

There's a zeroth iteration where Phil doesn't repeat.

The very first time Phil repeats, he is Phil sub1, and the next day is the 3rd and he wonders what just happened, shrugs it off as a hangover, and moves on.

"Meanwhile", Phil sub2 repeats his second day. At the end of his day, the next is the third. He wonders about the hiccough in time, but moves on.

"Meanwhile", Phil sub3 repeats for his third time. He begins to wonder how long this is going to repeat. But the next day is the third, and Phil says "whew" and moves on.

"Meanwhile", Phil sub4+ decides to try and change things. The next day is the third, and he has to live with his actions. Hope it wasn't a big change.

"Meanwhile" Phil subx decides to off himself. He stays dead, forever. Everyone wonders what drove him to it, but they hire a new guy, and soon everyone forgets poor dead Phil.

"Meanwhile", Phil subx+1 finds that death cannot even release him from his prison, but kills himself again. He stays dead.

"Meanwhile" Phil sub100 ends up in jail. The next day is the third, and he's stuck there, in his new prison. At least things change.

....

"Meanwhile", Phil sub5000 decides to better himself. The next day is the third, and he believes that was what released him from his prison. He goes on to be a better person.

...

"Meanwhile", Phil sub 9000 wonders what it will take to escape. 4000 times he believes whatever he did worked because the next day is the third. But...

"Finally" Phil sub 10000 has a perfect day, and the next day is the third. Roil credits.

"Meanwhile", Phil sub 10001 wonders what he has to do to escape the prison he is trapped in. He begins to go crazy, trying to perfect his day.

ad infinitum
  #213  
Old 03-28-2020, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
I've often wondered (and maybe even posted this before....) whether each repeat is the "last" for that version of Phil. It's a "parallel worlds" movie. Each repeat starts a new timeline that continues.
It's a good point. For your way NOT to happen, the universe actually has to "kill" everyone else in the story every day until they decide to let Phil pass. There's no indication that any of the physicality of the universe isn't real. I'd go as far to say that since Phil is allowed to punch Ned, kill himself, and the groundhog likely died when the truck blew up as well, that Phil would have been allowed to commit murder and other crimes as well.

But we're led to believe that none of it stuck, none of it mattered until the final one. Rita is given a lot of agency in the movie, but not really, since all of her other days are wiped out as well. Kind of seems like a self centered, condescending basis for a relationship.

Phil probably slept with Nancy dozens of times, until he had his fill (pun intended.) But we're kind of led to believe that it's "zero" since he likely didn't sleep with her on the last Feb 2nd. I'm not getting into issues of assault, just that it happened. There should be consequences for that instead of the universe just wiping the slate clean. Nancy, all of the others deserve to retain their experiences.

It would also be interesting if Nancy or one of the other women had her own agenda, was happy to get pregnant by the local celebrity. Them having only a singular experience of February 2nd wouldn't change that.

Maybe a sequel idea, in print anyway, would be someone else in the town figuring out what happened. That person has a vision, and Phil starts to lose track of everything and what happened on the "perfect day" and what didn't, and his stories don't add up. The wind-up being that instead of being perfect, Phil has to incorporate ALL of his other selves into one complete yet imperfect self, allowing the rest of the town to also rebalance their experiences of the day as well. That's a far deeper metaphysical direction than the first movie got to.
  #214  
Old 03-29-2020, 12:17 AM
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...Maybe a sequel idea, in print anyway, would be someone else in the town figuring out what happened....
My money's on Ned. Ryerson!
  #215  
Old 03-29-2020, 06:33 AM
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"Ramis once said Phil was trapped in Groundhog Day for 10 years, even though the original plan was to have him trapped for 10,000 years. According to the website Wolf Gnards, which ran the numbers, Phil was actually trapped for eight years, eight months and 16 days."
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...heres-5-769137
  #216  
Old 03-29-2020, 10:12 AM
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More than why would the universe, in its cruel malevolence, decided to stick Phil in a 10000 day or 10000 year or whatever repeating trap, my question is, why Phil? He's not even the biggest jerk in the film, let alone the world.

If you take the movie as shown, ignoring my speculation, it seems Phil is released by the universe when he becomes a good enough person (using whatever arbitrary standards the universe is judging you by). But why then? Why not last day -1, or -2? What capricious and yet arbitrary standards is the universe using? Why not when Phil decided to help people? Isn't that enough?

because it's implied at the end he's still the self-centered person he always was (let's rent first).

Note: I love the movie. But Ramis should have answered these questions before he made the movie, even if the answers aren't shown.
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