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Old 02-24-2020, 05:43 AM
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Better Call Saul season 5 (spoilers)


So what I am wondering is why is Gene so scared of the police. Can they get him on anything or does he still have attorney client privilege with his dead client Walt?
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:16 AM
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You generally don't get to exercise privilege if you're engaged in a criminal conspiracy with your client. But none of that matters since Walt is long dead by the time Gene's around. There's all sorts of shit they can pin on him now, surely. But I think he's more scared of going to jail where he would be rather unpopular with certain people.

The season seems off to a good start. I predict that Lalo and Nacho's relationship will become slightly strained at some point.
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:00 PM
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Hmm...I wonder if the guy who recognizes Gene in the mall might be in need of an adapter for a Hover Max Extract Pressure Pro Model 60 vacuum cleaner part...

Last edited by blondebear; 02-24-2020 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:13 PM
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Oops. missed the edit window...that would be a Hoover, not Hover. And, going back to the earlier episodes, the secret code for an extraction/relocation was to ask for a dust filter, not an adapter. Wonder if that is a continuity error or does "adapter" indicate that he's a repeat customer?

Last edited by blondebear; 02-24-2020 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:22 PM
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Seems that "adaptor" would indicate that he's a current client and needs to be relocated.
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:49 PM
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It's great to re-enter that universe again. Can't wait for ep. 2 tonight.

Think Kim will get sucked into more and more of Saul's schemes, or act as a moral beacon (relatively)? Right now my money's on the former. She talks the talk of ethics but likes dark side thrill a bit too much.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:28 PM
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Kim is going to end up taking the fall for something impulsive that Saul does.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:01 PM
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Kim is going to end up taking the fall for something impulsive that Saul does.
I hope they don't kill Kim off somehow as a unintended consequence of something Saul does.
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Old 02-24-2020, 11:53 PM
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Nacho won't let Jimmy eat ice cream in his car
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:23 AM
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In the first (extended) episode, when Gene was confronted by the cab driver, there was another guy there with bangs, standing behind him. I thought he looked an awful lot like that guy involved with the drug house in the second episode tonight. But maybe it was just the bangs.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:35 AM
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So what I am wondering is why is Gene so scared of the police. Can they get him on anything or does he still have attorney client privilege with his dead client Walt?
I think he was involved with the money laundering across the board, and they got Walt's in the end. He may have arranged some killings too. He was a problem solver back in BB.

I think Kim's downfall might be lying to her client about offer being withdrawing. Isn't that pretty much license losing?
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:04 AM
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Did anyone else kind of expect Jesse Pinkman to show up for a free phone? The BCS timeline has got to be very close to Breaking Bad’s first season at this point, if not overlapping right now.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:08 AM
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I just watched the episode - where Jimmy was recognized by the cabdriver. Reminded me that I liked the show - but hate the sporadic streaming of short seasons.

A week or 2 ago, my machine recorded an ep. I watched it for a good 10 minutes before I remembered that it was an ep from a previous season that I had already watched. And with the new rep, on multiple occasions my wife and I were asking, "Who was that guy?" "What were they doing?"

I guess I'm a troglodyte who prefers his storytelling somewhat more linear. I generally don't care to rewatch and "study" TV shows, and I don't retain all the intricacies following a single viewing. So my reaction is to simply watch them more superficially, which causes me to retain less...

Also, I know many people consider this sort of filming to be high art, but I'm not overwhelmed by protracted scenes showing the banality of one's daily existence. Yeah, gimme plot. (Cue respondents to observe how much was actually going on...)
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:10 AM
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Did anyone else kind of expect Jesse Pinkman to show up for a free phone? The BCS timeline has got to be very close to Breaking Bad’s first season at this point, if not overlapping right now.
FWIW, I did notice in the first episode, when Saul was in the licensing office, there was a camera shot of some paperwork and it read 2004 at the top.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:14 AM
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Think Kim will get sucked into more and more of Saul's schemes, or act as a moral beacon (relatively)?
She's getting on my nerves with her judgemental attitude.






"Where's the cookie?" And of course, I think we all knew it was a bad idea to bang on that downspout while the cops were standing there...


Stephe96, I too was wondering about Pinkman, but I was picturing him as being a bored, as-yet-unscathed kid sitting in Mr. White's chemistry class during these events.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:16 AM
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Did anyone else kind of expect Jesse Pinkman to show up for a free phone? The BCS timeline has got to be very close to Breaking Bad’s first season at this point, if not overlapping right now.
Guessing that Krazy-8 crosses paths with Skinny or Badger (or possibly even Jessie) in jail, and introduces them to Saul.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:28 AM
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[QUOTE=Smid;22157596

I think Kim's downfall might be lying to her client about offer being withdrawing. Isn't that pretty much license losing?[/QUOTE]

What, that thing she did in last night's episode? I realize it was dubious, but there is this season (and one more to come, I think) - would this one thing follow her and come back to bite her in the ass?

I think she will have to do, or be involved in, something else that is majorly bad and so disappear from the show - quit, go back home, go to prison.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:01 PM
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So what I am wondering is why is Gene so scared of the police. Can they get him on anything or does he still have attorney client privilege with his dead client Walt?
Attorney client privilege protects the client, not the lawyer - it doesn't do anything to protect Jimmy/Saul/Gene from consequences for things he did, it would just protect Walt (pointless), Jesse, or other people from having his testimony used against them. And it doesn't cover criminal acts that the lawyer participated in or advised them to commit, so wouldn't cover things like setting up the various money laundering schemes, poisoning the kid, sending the guys to threaten (and accidentally land in the hospital) Ted, and the like. The financial work he did probably ties him directly into the drug enterprise, so there's all kinds of trafficing and distribution that he could get as a conspiracy or RICO charge. I forget if he had any involvement with Hank's situation at the end, but they might even be able to tie him to murdering a cop.

Saul definitely did enough criminal acts during Breaking Bad to lose all of his money and get himself in prison for the rest of his life if they want to throw the book at him, which they certainly will since he's one of the few living pieces of the Heisenberg criminal enterprise. He doesn't even have that much testimony he could use for a plea bargain, as most of the people he could give evidence against are already dead. His one saving grace is that there's not many people left to testify against him, but there would be documents he couldn't shred and co-conspiritors like Francesca and Huell were still alive last we saw.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:24 PM
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I still laugh when I remember when Jesse said to Walter that they needed a criminal attorney, with emphasis on the word criminal.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:59 PM
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I still laugh when I remember when Jesse said to Walter that they needed a criminal attorney, with emphasis on the word criminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvlEqAjg8aU
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Old 02-25-2020, 01:08 PM
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Was that really Robert Forester we saw on the phone to Gene? It was certainly his voice, but when we saw him he was either blurred-out or in a very dark close-up where his features were in deep shadow.

I had to wonder, since he died some months ago, whether they didn't re-use some audio recorded from previous episodes and had a stand-in whose appearance could be fudged for the on-camera presentation.
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Old 02-25-2020, 01:26 PM
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That was Forster...the scene was filmed when they were shooting El Camino. As Producer Peter Gould put it,

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Old 02-25-2020, 07:19 PM
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I hope they don't kill Kim off somehow as a unintended consequence of something Saul does.
My prediction is that that kid was actually innocent and if Kim had done some investigation, she would have learned that and gotten him off in trial. Maybe he is even killed in prison.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:10 AM
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My prediction is that that kid was actually innocent and if Kim had done some investigation, she would have learned that and gotten him off in trial. Maybe he is even killed in prison.


If he was actually innocent, then the notion of there suddenly being new evidence probably wouldn't have worried him so much. If anything, it might have made him more suspicious of her claim - how could they have witnesses for something he didn't do?
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:35 AM
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If he was actually innocent, then the notion of there suddenly being new evidence probably wouldn't have worried him so much. If anything, it might have made him more suspicious of her claim - how could they have witnesses for something he didn't do?
Good point. I was just trying to figure out a way for that to tragically blow up in her face.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:42 AM
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Good point. I was just trying to figure out a way for that to tragically blow up in her face.
He seemed puzzled when Kim asked him if he was excited for the delivery of his wife’s (girlfriend’s?) baby. Was he just nervous or is something else going on there?
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:05 AM
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Actually watched the episodes last night. I'm wondering what's going on with Howard - I'm pretty sure he's not there just for funsies, or to offer Jimmy a job at HHM. I suspect that something is going on with Sandpiper, though I have no idea if it's good or bad. If the case is coming to a good conclusion, then Jimmy can get his cash payout and look at buying a house or reopening the WM office, which will push things with Kim. If it's something where Jimmy won't get his payout, then that could drive Jimmy to more money-making schemes.

I like that Kim keeps sending messages to Jimmy that he completely misses. Like when she objects to his 'discount' scheme, he interprets it as 'Saul, you're going to come off as desperate and hurting for clients instead of as a success', when she really means 'Jimmy, you're a great lawyer and you can run a legitimate practice, and save the scamming for the side'. Or when they're talking about the house and "This is the closet of your dreams” “Our dreams” "Sure"... that's not a happy comment. I think Kim has wanted to be with the hardworking Jimmy who occasionally pulls a scam and be the one who keeps him from going to far, and now she finds that he's the scam artist who works hard at scams, and keeps pulling her into the muck.

I think Gene is going to end up trying to kill Jeff. There's really not another way to take care of that loose end for him, and what he does will show us a lot about where his moral compass ends up in the end. Also Jimmy is a staggeringly good lawyer, juggling all of those cases without even a Francesca manning the phone could not be easy.

I don't like that Lalo seems to be having such a hard time finding out about "Michael" - why doesn't Hector remember the bald gringo named "Michael" who got Tuco sent to prison, prompted him to use the twins, and used balls of steel to make Hector pay him off? And Nacho saying he doesn't know Bald Gringo Mike who he watched stare down Hector in a roomful of Hector's armed thugs seems... a rather dangerous lie for him.

I suspect that the reason Nacho picked up Saul at the end of E2 is that they plan to use him for a scheme with Crazy 8. I think they're going to push Crazy 8 to be a fake informant to hand the DEA info that will interfere with Gus's operations but not Salamancas'.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:07 AM
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If he was actually innocent, then the notion of there suddenly being new evidence probably wouldn't have worried him so much. If anything, it might have made him more suspicious of her claim - how could they have witnesses for something he didn't do?
He might be naive enough to believe that, but it's pretty common in real life for witnesses to come in against someone who didn't commit a crime. Maybe someone got two black guys mixed up, maybe someone said 'yeah, sure, he did it' to get a better deal on their own charges, or any of a host of other things. I do think he did it, but I don't think being nervous about new evidence shows that he did.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:11 AM
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I agree that when Gene said he'd "take care" of the situation with the cab driver who recognized him that he plans to murder him. Of course he'll also need to kill the other guy who was there. Given how well-known Saul Goodman was in Albuquerque, he was eventually going to be recognized in Omaha. (And especially since I'm sure the authorities plastered his photo all over the place after Walt's death.)

And I doubt that Saul buys that ridiculous house. Did we ever see where he lived during the Breaking Bad years?
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:45 AM
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He seemed puzzled when Kim asked him if he was excited for the delivery of his wife’s (girlfriend’s?) baby. Was he just nervous or is something else going on there?
I got the impression he was looking forward to a prison sentence as a way to escape parental responsibility.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:05 AM
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Forgot to mention my favorite funny bit: When Lalo describe's Gus' construction project as a freezer and Gus actually seems offended when he corrects him with "Chiller. Our product is never frozen." Even when he's deep in cartel business he can talk like he's in an ad for Los Pollos Hermanos.

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I got the impression he was looking forward to a prison sentence as a way to escape parental responsibility.
I got the impression he's a thrill-seeking gambler type. He lucked into getting this awesome lady lawyer for free, so he's going to shoot for a complete acquittal instead of taking a deal. He's thinking something like "Oh man if I can skate on all these charges that will be awesome, and I've never had anything but a tired public defender before!" and not even considering what will happen if he loses. Then Kim telling him that the DA is dropping the deal brought him back to reality.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:10 AM
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By the way, the construction project that Gus showed off to explain the presence of the Germans, that was a different building from the laundry under which they were building the meth lab, right? Because I got the impression that this building was above ground.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:28 AM
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It's a completely different building, but both buildings are above ground. The secret lab is under the laundry, but the laundry itself is a regular warehouse-ish building.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:08 PM
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So why do you figure Jimmy and Kim are still together? I saw it before, but I'm wondering why either/both of them haven't reconsidered by now.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:43 PM
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So why do you figure Jimmy and Kim are still together? I saw it before, but I'm wondering why either/both of them haven't reconsidered by now.
I figure the sex must be really great.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:09 PM
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So why do you figure Jimmy and Kim are still together? I saw it before, but I'm wondering why either/both of them haven't reconsidered by now.
Jimmy is still in love with Kim and sees a future together for them, he's looking at buying houses and the like. No reason for him to reconsider at all.

Kim and Jimmy had rough spots in the past, but worked those out, and the last year was basically Jimmy pulling out of a hole while getting over his brother's death. Jimmy just got done with the switch to the "Saul Goodman" name and starting to court scumbag clients that he holds in contempt (he never talked about his elderly clients the way he does the Saul clients), I think it's only been like a week at this point. They had disagreements, but sorted them out, with Jimmy being perfectly willing to accept Kim's boundary about 'no lying to my clients' and being transparent and apologetic about the 50% off deal.

So Kim is feeling distant and we're seeing the cracks start, but this is a years-long relationship that doesn't have any obvious problems right now. A lot of times people won't break up even in a bad relationship without long contemplation or a particularly explosive event, so the fact that she hasn't broken things off a week after Jimmy's great triumph that they worked together on isn't really surprising. Also if you look at the future episode titles (spoilered for people who don't do that)

SPOILER:
6 "Wexler v. Goodman" 7 "JMM" 9 "Bad Choice Road" 10 "Something Unforgivable"

It looks pretty clear that a major conflict between Jimmy and Kim is coming up, including something about his old name, in the middle of the season and the last two episodes likely include a major rift between them (the show likes to have events on all of the storylines follow a title theme).
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:28 PM
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Did anyone else kind of expect Jesse Pinkman to show up for a free phone?
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Guessing that Krazy-8 crosses paths with Skinny or Badger (or possibly even Jessie) in jail, and introduces them to Saul.
I just re-watched the Breaking Bad episode in which Saul was introduced. Saul didn't know either Badger or Jesse personally before Badger's arrest (or at least he didn't recognize them). He got Badger as a client because Francesca had gone through arrest reports, and Saul went to the police station to offer his services (along with anyone else who was there). Jesse knew of Saul because he had gotten his partner Emilio off twice (and because of his commercials).

Jesse hadn't been to jail before, because they didn't have his fingerprints. I don't think Badger had any priors either. Skinny Pete did, however, so could have met Saul before. (Skinny Pete met Tuco in prison and introduced Walt and Jesse to him.) Spooje (the meth-head who got his head crushed by an ATM) was also a client of Saul's.

Last edited by Colibri; 02-26-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:30 PM
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I figure the sex must be really great.
Well, he is Slip-In Jimmy....
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:33 PM
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FWIW, I did notice in the first episode, when Saul was in the licensing office, there was a camera shot of some paperwork and it read 2004 at the top.
If so, it's still four years before Breaking Bad, which starts in September 2008. Walt and Jesse meet Saul in December 2008, and Saul has obviously been engaged in his sleazeball practice for a number of years by then.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:47 PM
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Yeah, the date has been pretty well established, it was 2002 early on and 2003 by the time Saul went on probation. According to the Breaking Bad Wiki Jesse was born in 1984, so should be around 20 now and definitely out of school. I thought he was younger than that and that he'd still be in high school during this series. Jesse hadn't met Saul during BB (he knew him through commercials and Emilio) and only recently met Krazy 8, so if he does turn up he can't really do much with the main plot lines.

It's funny to compare how scary Crazy 8 was to Walt and Jesse in BB with how timid and scared he is here. A lot of characters in this show put on really different faces for different audiences. And you have to feel a little bad that his nickname wasn't for some cool scheme he pulled off, it was for wimpily folding to a worthless poker hand.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:12 PM
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Regarding the poker hand, I'm not sure if we're supposed to take away:
Krazy 8 was scared Lalo would hurt him if he won, so folded a monster hand.
or
Krazy 8 was genuinely outplayed by Lalo's aggressive poker bet.

If it was option 1 do you think his fears were justified?
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:31 PM
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I got the impression the fold was an attempt at ingratiation, with him taking a cue (consciously or unconsciously) from Nacho.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:33 PM
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I got the impression he was looking forward to a prison sentence as a way to escape parental responsibility.
They already had a young child, it was there in the stroller next to the lady. What's one more kid?
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:38 PM
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Regarding the poker hand, I'm not sure if we're supposed to take away:
Krazy 8 was scared Lalo would hurt him if he won, so folded a monster hand.
or
Krazy 8 was genuinely outplayed by Lalo's aggressive poker bet.

If it was option 1 do you think his fears were justified?
A little from option 1, a little from option 2?

I think Lalo would have respected K8 more if he'd played to win.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:14 PM
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They already had a young child, it was there in the stroller next to the lady. What's one more kid?
Right, he was already chafing under parental responsibility, which was going to double in the near future. It's just the impression I got when he seemed to have forgotten that he had a kid and another on the way. I expect Pantatic's "gambler" theory is closer to the mark - poor impulse control, lack of appreciation of consequences, thrill-seeking... he's basically the kind of client Saul/Jimmy was chasing, and Kim's discomfort will highlight the growing and inevitable divide between them.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:19 PM
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Given how well-known Saul Goodman was in Albuquerque, he was eventually going to be recognized in Omaha.
Having Saul manage a Cinnabon in Omaha was really just based on a throwaway joke in Breaking Bad. If you were trying to hide out, the last thing you would want is a job serving the public in a busy place like a mall in a city on the interstate. In a back-room job in a small town you would be much less likely to be made.

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And I doubt that Saul buys that ridiculous house. Did we ever see where he lived during the Breaking Bad years?
No. Saul's home was never shown.

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Old 02-26-2020, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Calavera View Post
Regarding the poker hand, I'm not sure if we're supposed to take away:
Krazy 8 was scared Lalo would hurt him if he won, so folded a monster hand.
or
Krazy 8 was genuinely outplayed by Lalo's aggressive poker bet.

If it was option 1 do you think his fears were justified?
Krazy 8 was intimidated by Lalo in general, and was playing a weak, passive game of poker. I don't think he thought Lalo was going to attack him, (and I don't think Lalo was), but he didn't want to confront Lalo and probably thought that letting him have the pot would score points with the boss. His limp play and especially folding when he had a strong (not monster) hand did the opposite though, Lalo clearly thinks of him as weak, cowardly, and ineffectual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
A little from option 1, a little from option 2?

I think Lalo would have respected K8 more if he'd played to win.
Ignoring his earlier weak play, IMO the best way to look 'pretty good' in Lalo's eyes there would be to call and say something like 'you can't just take my pot, man'. That makes him look confident, not weak. The best way to look really good would be to reraise him and stare him down. The Salamancas respect people who have balls, and reraising the boss is pretty ballsy. The reraise would also make 'Loco Ocho' a positive nickname instead of a negative one, being 'the guy who went after me with eights' instead of 'the guy who folded to nothing with a set of eights'. It's not so much 'playing to win' as it is 'standing up for yourself' and 'don't let someone take your money with nothing' that would make him look good.

Last edited by Pantastic; 02-26-2020 at 07:33 PM.
  #48  
Old 02-27-2020, 11:57 PM
MaxTheVool is offline
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Two things:
(1) Is anyone clear on what the deal is with some of the product being inferior? Did Fring deliberately screw up some of his own product just so to make his lie about what Werner Ziegler did more believable? That's a brilliantly believable lie, because who would go out of their way to fuck over the cartel and then admit they'd done so? But it's also ballsy as hell for obvious reasons

(2) I feel like something is just kind of... off about the show so far this season. Like they're just going through the motions. Everything is a bit obvious. Fring has been WAY more non-subtle than usual. Mike losing his temper with his granddaughter was broad. Jimmy was WAY too obvious when he trapped that lady in the elevator. The montages are just the same thing we've seen before, etc. It feels a bit like West Wing when it was taken over by the non-Aaron-Sorkin people, where it's the same show but just... without the razor edge. Fingers crossed that I don't keep feeling this way for the rest of the season.

(3) I just didn't buy those two addicts at the beginning going so nuts and changing "50% off" as a mantra. Maybe I'd get it if I was a methhead?
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  #49  
Old 02-28-2020, 06:47 AM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
Krazy 8 was intimidated by Lalo in general, and was playing a weak, passive game of poker. I don't think he thought Lalo was going to attack him, (and I don't think Lalo was), but he didn't want to confront Lalo and probably thought that letting him have the pot would score points with the boss. His limp play and especially folding when he had a strong (not monster) hand did the opposite though, Lalo clearly thinks of him as weak, cowardly, and ineffectual.
I'm pretty sure he folded because he didn't want to beat the boss because he was afraid of what Lalo would do.

A similar scene is in the movie "Four Brothers" when the gang is playing cards. In fact, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the scene in BCS.
  #50  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:26 AM
cormac262 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
Two things:
(1) Is anyone clear on what the deal is with some of the product being inferior? Did Fring deliberately screw up some of his own product just so to make his lie about what Werner Ziegler did more believable? That's a brilliantly believable lie, because who would go out of their way to fuck over the cartel and then admit they'd done so? But it's also ballsy as hell for obvious reasons

(2) I feel like something is just kind of... off about the show so far this season. Like they're just going through the motions. Everything is a bit obvious. Fring has been WAY more non-subtle than usual. Mike losing his temper with his granddaughter was broad. Jimmy was WAY too obvious when he trapped that lady in the elevator. The montages are just the same thing we've seen before, etc. It feels a bit like West Wing when it was taken over by the non-Aaron-Sorkin people, where it's the same show but just... without the razor edge. Fingers crossed that I don't keep feeling this way for the rest of the season.

(3) I just didn't buy those two addicts at the beginning going so nuts and changing "50% off" as a mantra. Maybe I'd get it if I was a methhead?
1) In the previous season, Gus stages the hit on Nacho and his partner (who had been killed) - the guys shooting up their car out in the boonies, and then Nacho getting shot himself. That staged hit was to look like someone ripped off their weekly supply. There is a scene where Gus is discussing this with the other Don, and they agree to supplement that week's supply from a local source - the inferior meth.
Hector's nephews then drag the barely recovered Nacho around to identify the car that (supposedly) did the hit, and they proceed to slaughter the gang that was set up for stealing the drugs.

2) I don't know about "off", but I think this season is kind of a turning point for a number of the characters: clearly Jimmy is turning to the dark side, Kim is trying to find out where she stands as she sees Jimmy's transformation, Mike is getting dragged into more and more of Gus' dirty work. Up until now, the characters have been riding the line, and now they're tipping. In some ways, it is like "Breaking Bad" and it's now catching up to that BB "uncomfortable" stage.
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