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  #51  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
I'm pretty sure he folded because he didn't want to beat the boss because he was afraid of what Lalo would do.
I saw it the same way. "Let the wookie win."
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  #52  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:54 AM
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[QUOTE=MaxTheVool;22163030]
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(2) I feel like something is just kind of... off about the show so far this season. Like they're just going through the motions. Everything is a bit obvious.
Fring is a brutal sociopath who is happy to use extreme violence to achieve his ends, but is smart enough to only use it when needed. In Breaking Bad he states that he doesn't think that fear is an effective motivator - but that is five years or so from 'now'. I think that threatening Nacho's father is going to motivate Nacho to desperate measures that throws a wrench into Gus's plans, maybe something like he gets his father to safety but the way he does so gets him killed and keeps Lalo in the area and suspicious. We've already seen Mike learning his 'no half measures' lesson, so having Gus get his "fear is not effective" lesson makes sense.

I think that the building continually has problems with elevators getting stuck for 10-30 minutes, that's why the DA was so nonchalant about it. If it's just a regular part of life in the court house, you don't think 'oh this guy must have arranged it to happen'. IMO the scene would have rung more true if they had shown someone getting stuck in an elevator earlier - maybe have the scene where he's waiting for her be him waiting for the elevator to get unstuck, or him and vending machine guy get stuck in together. (I wouldn't be surprised if they had shot a scene like this then cut it without realizing it would make the scam seem out of place). Him paying off the elevator guy right in the hallway is like the handshake with the sign guy after the 'accident' or getting the money from the dealer right after browbeating the community service supervisor. It should 'really' be more subtle but doesn't warrant spending the screen time to do so.

As far as Mike, I think we're seeing him crack under the pressure of realizing he can't be the 'virtuous criminal' he's been trying to be. His scene is so drastic because he's falling to pieces inside and losing control over his alcohol intake.

Quote:
(3) I just didn't buy those two addicts at the beginning going so nuts and changing "50% off" as a mantra. Maybe I'd get it if I was a methhead?
People who's lives consist of doing drugs and committing petty crimes often don't need any kind of deep motivation. The '50% off' became a fun thing to say and got them to make tonight an exciting night instead of a regular one, but anything could have become the day's catch phrase. It's what pushed them to commit the spree 'today', but it's not something they've never done before.
  #53  
Old 02-28-2020, 03:23 PM
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Two things:
...
(3) I just didn't buy those two addicts at the beginning going so nuts and changing "50% off" as a mantra. Maybe I'd get it if I was a methhead?
2?

I found this especially weak. I know I've been kinda dumping on this show, but when they only offer a few eps w/ a long time between "seasons", that struck me as an especially wasted few minutes. I got the point WELL before it ended, it wasn't particuarly amusing, entertaining, interesting...
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  #54  
Old 02-28-2020, 05:24 PM
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Since the writers brought it up, they sure as hell better tell us what happened with Fring in Santiago.
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Old 02-28-2020, 05:35 PM
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I think in these sorts of cases (of what Fring did in Santiago) it's more fun to let the audience's imaginations run wild.
  #56  
Old 02-28-2020, 06:19 PM
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I think it's hilarious how much older Krazy-8's actor looks now than when he was in Breaking Bad. The guy was, like, only in the first TWO episodes of the show, and that was like 12 years ago. Dude looks like he's 35 now. I know there are going to be some aging issues inherent to the prequel format, but it's particularly noticeable with this character.
  #57  
Old 02-28-2020, 06:25 PM
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I noticed the same thing about Jonathan Banks (who plays Mike). He certainly looks older than in Breaking Bad.
  #58  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:14 PM
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I think in these sorts of cases (of what Fring did in Santiago) it's more fun to let the audience's imaginations run wild.
Just like "The noodle incident".
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:01 PM
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I think in these sorts of cases (of what Fring did in Santiago) it's more fun to let the audience's imaginations run wild.
A season or two back, Fring told a terrifying fill-in-the-blanks story about a coati, a little creature he captured and apparently tortured. There was just one problem. Coatis are found almost everywhere in South America except Chile. Or as I prefer to put it, coatis were found in Chile until they pissed Gus Fring off.
  #60  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:01 PM
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Coatis are found almost everywhere in South America except Chile.
They were introduced to the Juan Fernandez islands where they are noxious pests along with other introduced mammals( there were none historically ).

So now you just have to come up with a fan wank of how a young coati trapped by conservationists on JF islands was rescued from euthanasia by the teary-eyed young daughter of the lead researcher. She then smuggled it back the nearly 600 miles to Santiago, where it made a daring escape to freedom and discovered a new home near a lovely fruit-rich lucuma tree.

It would make for a great anthropomorphic animated children's film. Carlos the Coati in the Land of the Lucuma. Right up until the rather dark end, anyway .
  #61  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:01 PM
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There is no inconsistency or need to fanwank anything. Gus always wears a coati when it's Chile.

That joke shamelessly stolen from whoever was the first of the thousands to post it.
  #62  
Old 03-02-2020, 06:51 AM
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[QUOTE=Pantastic;22163491]
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As far as Mike, I think we're seeing him crack under the pressure of realizing he can't be the 'virtuous criminal' he's been trying to be. His scene is so drastic because he's falling to pieces inside and losing control over his alcohol intake.
Yeah, absolutely. There was lots going on for Mike there. Obviously, he was hungover and in charge of a kid, which is no fun. And despite his valiant efforts to distract her on to another topic, she kept to the worst possible topic she could: her Dad, and how he died. This is an enormous deal for Mike, obviously, and was hitting all the high notes: he wanted to be just like you, you couldn't protect him, etc. which we know for Mike translates into "I broke my boy, and then they killed him anyway". And the way she's doing it - she's interested in her dad, but she's not emotionally engaged. It's just another story to her, no different from a story about some great aunt or other distant relative. It's a bit fuzzy how young she's meant to have been at the time of her dad's death, but she's obviously accepted the new reality fairly well. A couple of seasons back we saw Mike react very badly when her mum showed signs of processing and moving on - for him, dealing with grief is tantamount to forgetting his boy. So this could not have been better calculated to grate on his soul.

Added to which, of course, recent events should make it obvious to Mike that he's going down the same track he went before. What would Matty say about his work with Fring and especially his shooting of Werner? The question answers itself. Whatever Mike told himself about his decision to be a criminal and accept what side of the line he was, we know killing Werner shook him (no retainer, turning to alcohol). So his granddaughters questions come with a huge subtext of "You know that time you committed crimes and innocent people got killed? Funny how history repeats, isn't it?"

Mike is going to find a cathartic moment where he decides he can be the criminal fixer/killer Gus needs, or not. But getting there is going to be tough.
  #63  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:17 AM
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[QUOTE=Stanislaus;22167555]
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Yeah, absolutely. There was lots going on for Mike there. Obviously, he was hungover and in charge of a kid, which is no fun. And despite his valiant efforts to distract her on to another topic, she kept to the worst possible topic she could: her Dad, and how he died. This is an enormous deal for Mike, obviously, and was hitting all the high notes: he wanted to be just like you, you couldn't protect him, etc. which we know for Mike translates into "I broke my boy, and then they killed him anyway". And the way she's doing it - she's interested in her dad, but she's not emotionally engaged. It's just another story to her, no different from a story about some great aunt or other distant relative. It's a bit fuzzy how young she's meant to have been at the time of her dad's death, but she's obviously accepted the new reality fairly well. A couple of seasons back we saw Mike react very badly when her mum showed signs of processing and moving on - for him, dealing with grief is tantamount to forgetting his boy. So this could not have been better calculated to grate on his soul.



Added to which, of course, recent events should make it obvious to Mike that he's going down the same track he went before. What would Matty say about his work with Fring and especially his shooting of Werner? The question answers itself. Whatever Mike told himself about his decision to be a criminal and accept what side of the line he was, we know killing Werner shook him (no retainer, turning to alcohol). So his granddaughters questions come with a huge subtext of "You know that time you committed crimes and innocent people got killed? Funny how history repeats, isn't it?"



Mike is going to find a cathartic moment where he decides he can be the criminal fixer/killer Gus needs, or not. But getting there is going to be tough.


Excellent analysis.
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:18 AM
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Once you've sen last night's episode, do you think that Kim's story was real or something "Giselle" made up to try to scam the guy? It could have been real, but definitely didn't hit the guy as true, and he's clearly going to get evicted. Kind of weird that they needed Kim to personally close that down, seems like anyone from Schweikart could deliver the 'screw it, we're shutting you down' ultimatum - I'm guessing the idea is 'if anyone can convince this guy to go, she can, if not we'll call the cops'. The $18k also seems an odd amount - an inflation calculator says $20k would be the 'adjusted' amount, and a round number like that makes more sense to me. I like that the writers make Kim so hard to predict, I'm feeling less sure that she's going to split with Jimmy in the way I thought and she might end up breaking worse than he does but getting caught at it.

Crazy eight did go like I thought, and Saul set up a good scheme to trap our familiar DEA agents. Saul clearly doesn't realize how well shady lawyer services pay, he asked for less than half of what Nacho was willing to pay a guy for some empty pill bottles. I think his rates are going to go up, especially now that he realizes the cartel isn't out to kill him. Will Lalo reward his future services with something better than the Esteem, maybe the LAWYERUP Cadillac we see in Breaking Bad? His story seems to be going about where I'd expect, he's getting himself into dangerous business that he can't really back out of and making tons of money. Lalo is such a great character, always so happy-acting but completely ruthless behind that mask.

Mike is just sinking down, I didn't catch what the pic he wanted taken down was but reading online it was of the Syndey Opera House. I think something is going to happen soon that will catalyze Mike back into action, but I don't think he's just going to casually pull himself back together.
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Old 03-03-2020, 11:08 AM
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Once you've sen last night's episode, do you think that Kim's story was real or something "Giselle" made up to try to scam the guy? It could have been real, but definitely didn't hit the guy as true, and he's clearly going to get evicted. Kind of weird that they needed Kim to personally close that down, seems like anyone from Schweikart could deliver the 'screw it, we're shutting you down' ultimatum - I'm guessing the idea is 'if anyone can convince this guy to go, she can, if not we'll call the cops'. The $18k also seems an odd amount - an inflation calculator says $20k would be the 'adjusted' amount, and a round number like that makes more sense to me. I like that the writers make Kim so hard to predict, I'm feeling less sure that she's going to split with Jimmy in the way I thought and she might end up breaking worse than he does but getting caught at it.

Crazy eight did go like I thought, and Saul set up a good scheme to trap our familiar DEA agents. Saul clearly doesn't realize how well shady lawyer services pay, he asked for less than half of what Nacho was willing to pay a guy for some empty pill bottles. I think his rates are going to go up, especially now that he realizes the cartel isn't out to kill him. Will Lalo reward his future services with something better than the Esteem, maybe the LAWYERUP Cadillac we see in Breaking Bad? His story seems to be going about where I'd expect, he's getting himself into dangerous business that he can't really back out of and making tons of money. Lalo is such a great character, always so happy-acting but completely ruthless behind that mask.

Mike is just sinking down, I didn't catch what the pic he wanted taken down was but reading online it was of the Syndey Opera House. I think something is going to happen soon that will catalyze Mike back into action, but I don't think he's just going to casually pull himself back together.
I read the German guy who was killed had bragged about how his father had been instrumental in building the Sydney Opera House, and that didn't sit well with Mike. Guilt. Then anger, resulting in his breaking that creep's arm.

Last edited by salinqmind; 03-03-2020 at 11:09 AM.
  #66  
Old 03-03-2020, 12:12 PM
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I read the German guy who was killed had bragged about how his father had been instrumental in building the Sydney Opera House, and that didn't sit well with Mike. Guilt. Then anger, resulting in his breaking that creep's arm.
Yeah, the pic was reminding him of Werner. And I agree, 'in control Mike' would scare off the robbers or just show dominance, trashing his arm (especially the twist after they had clearly decided not to mess with him) is not his normal modus operandi.
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Old 03-03-2020, 12:58 PM
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I'm not sure if I liked Nacho going back to the apartment to retrieve the drugs, it was a bit forced just so he could do something to gain confidence.

There weren't officers stationed behind to see if anyone tried to escape when the front door is forced in? If this was the case Nacho wouldn't have been able to get out with the drugs.

I also feel like he would have been seen standing on the other apartment.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:26 PM
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I'm not sure if I liked Nacho going back to the apartment to retrieve the drugs, it was a bit forced just so he could do something to gain confidence.

....
Yeah, I understood hw that fit in the intended plot, but it did seem especially over the top.

I really like parts of this show, but other parts really drive me nuts. The entire pre-credit on ants?

Given the limited number of shows, I wish there would be more action. Of course, it seems some of you perceive action where I don't.

Hell, I can't even remember what is supposedly going on w/ the Monte Verde S&L, why Kim does not view that as a cash cow any lawyer would love.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:47 PM
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Once you've sen last night's episode, do you think that Kim's story was real or something "Giselle" made up to try to scam the guy?
I think it was real.

Kim has been taking the cash cow Mesa Verde money and finding it ultimately unfulfilling. She was finding purpose and meaning in doing her pro bono work - hence her reluctance to come out to see this guy until pushed really hard. But he denigrated that utterly with his speech about Thanksgiving soup kitchens and chairty donations. He may have been wrong in the details, and was definitely wrong about how rich Kim is, but he did attack her sense of self very effectively.

The story about how she grew up was true, I'm sure. I think she's mentioned before about how hard she had to fight to get where she is, and she started in the mail room with Jimmy IIRC. She was trying to be honest with the guy and show him who she really was - a very un-Kim tactic. She is normally very sparing of her emotions and her inner world - to reveal this much was a very big move for her. She really wanted to make that connection. Getting the door slammed in her face will have hurt.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:08 PM
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I really enjoyed the opening sequence, although I kept expecting a giant foot to come out of nowhere and put an end to the ant's feeding frenzy. On the podcast they had a pretty in-depth discussion about the scene; getting into how they had an "ant wrangler", picking the lens they shot with and how they chose the yodeling music.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:30 PM
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...On the podcast they had a pretty in-depth discussion about the scene; getting into how they had an "ant wrangler", picking the lens they shot with and how they chose the yodeling music.
Yeah, I suspected as much. Someone decide that shooting it would be fun/cool, rather than thinking it advanced the story.

Impresses me as self indulgent, but I am in the minority. And if I don't like it, I can stop watching.
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Old 03-04-2020, 09:35 PM
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The story about how she grew up was true, I'm sure. I think she's mentioned before about how hard she had to fight to get where she is, and she started in the mail room with Jimmy IIRC. She was trying to be honest with the guy and show him who she really was - a very un-Kim tactic. She is normally very sparing of her emotions and her inner world - to reveal this much was a very big move for her. She really wanted to make that connection. Getting the door slammed in her face will have hurt.
So your take is that she tried to really open up, and wasn't significantly embellishing the story at all. And since this is a rare instance of her opening up, having it not only fail to change the guy's mind but also not even be believable it hurt her much deeply than her run of the mill activity. I think it's also possible that she tried to pull a full-on Slippin' Jimmy scam (her life was rough but actually nowhere near that rough) and completely failed without the Magic Man to help, but I like your take better. It definitely opens motivations for several changes she could make in several directions.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:44 AM
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So your take is that she tried to really open up, and wasn't significantly embellishing the story at all. And since this is a rare instance of her opening up, having it not only fail to change the guy's mind but also not even be believable it hurt her much deeply than her run of the mill activity. I think it's also possible that she tried to pull a full-on Slippin' Jimmy scam (her life was rough but actually nowhere near that rough) and completely failed without the Magic Man to help, but I like your take better. It definitely opens motivations for several changes she could make in several directions.
Yeah, I think this is going to be Kim's arc this season - the conflict between her attraction to the glamour and thrill (and effectiveness) of running cons vs her belief in the importance of rules and her desire to be a good person. Her earlier blow-up at the intransigent homeowner - "Rules matter! Contracts matter! You can't just break the rules! You're not special!" was also an honest statement of her views and of course directly conflicts with what she's being doing with Jimmy. We've seen watching Jimmy slipping and sliding that a scam might get you past your immediate problem but somehow you seem to end up mired in more and more shit. Kim's slipped a little but she's ultimately got more sense and better values than Jimmy (I think) so she's going to pull up. But the only way to do that is to break with Jimmy. (Or Saul,as he now is.)

At the risk of being very wanky, this is the point of the ice-cream/ants scene. Jimmy had a good thing but he can't keep it. As soon as one ant finds it, that's it - more ants come and they swarm relentlessly till it's ruined. There's no recovery past that first contact. It's practically systemic - it's not about this ant or that ant, but about basic laws of nature that drive an ecosystem. As Nacho says, "Once you're in, you're in".
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Old 03-05-2020, 07:32 AM
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...

At the risk of being very wanky, this is the point of the ice-cream/ants scene. Jimmy had a good thing but he can't keep it. As soon as one ant finds it, that's it - more ants come and they swarm relentlessly till it's ruined. There's no recovery past that first contact. It's practically systemic - it's not about this ant or that ant, but about basic laws of nature that drive an ecosystem. As Nacho says, "Once you're in, you're in".
That's actually a pretty good analysis. I guess I accepted it from Nacho's comment alone. I find myself curiously resenting what I perceive as "wasted time" given the limited number of eps offered w/ seasons widely spread apart.

That and my personal interest in things myrmecological. I didn't see the swarm as a "bad thing." Hey, even ants gotta eat!
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:18 AM
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Yeah, I think this is going to be Kim's arc this season - the conflict between her attraction to the glamour and thrill (and effectiveness) of running cons vs her belief in the importance of rules and her desire to be a good person. Her earlier blow-up at the intransigent homeowner - "Rules matter! Contracts matter! You can't just break the rules! You're not special!" was also an honest statement of her views and of course directly conflicts with what she's being doing with Jimmy. We've seen watching Jimmy slipping and sliding that a scam might get you past your immediate problem but somehow you seem to end up mired in more and more shit. Kim's slipped a little but she's ultimately got more sense and better values than Jimmy (I think) so she's going to pull up. But the only way to do that is to break with Jimmy. (Or Saul,as he now is.)
I find Kim really unpredictable - I'm not sure that she is going to pull up. I think it's possible that seeing her heartfelt plea casually dismissed while her 'oh, the deal is off the table' scam worked will be enough to push her into more shenanigans with Jimmy but they'll end up catching up with her. I don't think that her values are that far from Jimmy's - my impression is that she follows the rules because the punishments for Jimmy-style shenanigans could wreck the life and career that she's worked hard on. She seems to enjoy running Giselle scams and hearing about Jimmy's more respectable adventures. She was also willing to offer suggestions like 'cover the copy shop' and later go to bat for Jimmy when she knew that he had scammed Chuck to get her into Mesa Verde. I won't be shocked if it follows the path you think, but I don't think she's necessarily going to pull to the 'light side'.

Also, at this point Jimmy still hasn't fully embraced Saul values - he still cares about his clients, unlike in the BB era where he will suggest just killing off clients. One thing that stood out to me is that when Jimmy was running his elder law practice, he felt genuinely offended at people taking advantage of his clients, and never even considered scamming them - even when he pulled the scheme for the Sandpiper settlement, he appeared to think it was in their best interest. Similarly when he set up the deal for Krazy Eight, he went to bat to make sure the guy didn't get killed as a snitch and got a pretty good deal from the DEA. Jimmy still has one major 'slip' to end up the Saul we see in Breaking Bad, and that might be what does in Jimmy/Kim.
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Old 03-05-2020, 10:11 AM
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I find Kim really unpredictable - I'm not sure that she is going to pull up. I think it's possible that seeing her heartfelt plea casually dismissed while her 'oh, the deal is off the table' scam worked will be enough to push her into more shenanigans with Jimmy but they'll end up catching up with her. I don't think that her values are that far from Jimmy's - my impression is that she follows the rules because the punishments for Jimmy-style shenanigans could wreck the life and career that she's worked hard on. She seems to enjoy running Giselle scams and hearing about Jimmy's more respectable adventures. She was also willing to offer suggestions like 'cover the copy shop' and later go to bat for Jimmy when she knew that he had scammed Chuck to get her into Mesa Verde. I won't be shocked if it follows the path you think, but I don't think she's necessarily going to pull to the 'light side'.

Also, at this point Jimmy still hasn't fully embraced Saul values - he still cares about his clients, unlike in the BB era where he will suggest just killing off clients. One thing that stood out to me is that when Jimmy was running his elder law practice, he felt genuinely offended at people taking advantage of his clients, and never even considered scamming them - even when he pulled the scheme for the Sandpiper settlement, he appeared to think it was in their best interest. Similarly when he set up the deal for Krazy Eight, he went to bat to make sure the guy didn't get killed as a snitch and got a pretty good deal from the DEA. Jimmy still has one major 'slip' to end up the Saul we see in Breaking Bad, and that might be what does in Jimmy/Kim.
Even as Saul though he still had some ethics, (though not those the ALA would recognise I'm sure.) I can't remember all the details but there were certainly times that he made sure Jesse and Walt got their money when it would be better for him if he skimmed it and left. I think his involvement in the Brock situation was also implied to be mitigating a more unpleasant outcome.
  #77  
Old 03-05-2020, 11:14 AM
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my personal interest in things myrmecological.
I've had more experience with formication, at least professionally.
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Old 03-05-2020, 11:44 AM
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Yeah, the pic was reminding him of Werner. And I agree, 'in control Mike' would scare off the robbers or just show dominance, trashing his arm (especially the twist after they had clearly decided not to mess with him) is not his normal modus operandi.
What a ridiculous scene. Instead of being spectators while their friend gets his arm busted, the other four guys would have been beating the snot out of Mike. Having them freeze in shock and awe like Mike was the Terminator was just plain unrealistic. It could have worked if it was just two guys and Mike took out the bigger one.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:27 PM
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I think Kim was telling the truth. I think she opened up to the guy genuinely because she has decided that she'd rather be a good person than a rich person. She's not motivated by money, she's motivated by success. And to her, Mesa Verde isn't any different than what she was doing at HHM, but her pro bono work is a step up, in honor if not prestige. That's why she decided to take some of her pro bono people skills and see if she couldn't help the dude that the bank she works for was screwing out of a home.

I was struck by the thought that Kim was telling the truth to this guy and he didn't believe her, whereas Saul would pull the same stunt, except he'd be lying the whole time and the mark would fall for it hook, line and sinker. Also, she's doing it out of kindness but Saul would have done it for money.

The "Mike scares the gangbangers" scene works for me. A) These guys are still basically kids. They're big enough to be threatening, but young enough that it's mostly just posturing. Also, there's no sign that these are actual gangsters rather than just young punks looking for a thrill and some drug money. 2) One might expect an old man to fight back or at least put on a show of fighting back to dissuade the punks from coming any closer. But laying out your friend, who you know as a strong, fierce man, and then proceeding to break his arm on purpose, while staring you in the eye and showing no emotion, is a whole different story. Could they have overpowered Mike? Probably. Did they have any taste for it after what he did to their friend? Not at all.

Also, I loved the ant scene. The whole time I was like "that's not CGI, somebody brought their ant farm to work and the ants might even be trained". Unlike Breaking Bad, this show gives you time to breathe. And it's punctuated by little artistic scenes for that reason.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:58 PM
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... Unlike Breaking Bad, this show gives you time to breathe. And it's punctuated by little artistic scenes for that reason.
Time to breath, hell. More like time to hit the head and stop off at the kitchen for a snack!
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:27 PM
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What a ridiculous scene. Instead of being spectators while their friend gets his arm busted, the other four guys would have been beating the snot out of Mike. Having them freeze in shock and awe like Mike was the Terminator was just plain unrealistic. It could have worked if it was just two guys and Mike took out the bigger one.
I don't know...It seemed to me that they just weren't expecting things to go so fast. This wasn't a dedicated hit team or violent crew of assassins. It was just a bunch of guys hanging out who thought they saw some easy prey. They were expecting some fun back and forth, some harassment, then a punch or kick or two and take whatever he had. Instead Mike cranked it instantly up to 11. I'm sure that a trained unit could have taken him down easily, but the way that scene was staged, the way those characters were set up, the response of the guys seemed very realistic to me.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:42 PM
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I don't know...It seemed to me that they just weren't expecting things to go so fast. This wasn't a dedicated hit team or violent crew of assassins. It was just a bunch of guys hanging out who thought they saw some easy prey.
That and he took out the leader, so there's no one to take direction from, and people (especially older teenagers) don't tend to react well to sudden, unexpected, high stress situations. Sure all four of them can take him if they rush at once, but he'll probably mess up the arm of whoever gets there first. If everyone is thinking "Do I want to be the first guy? Nah, I'll just wait for someone else to go." then it ends up that no one goes. Real people tend to freeze up in a scary, unexpected situation. And if you look at the preview for next week, it doesn't appear that they're permanently cowed by Mike's display.
  #83  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:17 PM
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Time to breath, hell. More like time to hit the head and stop off at the kitchen for a snack!
That's what you get from having a job that's nonstop action/adventure all day. You adrenaline junkies, you keep needing your rush late into the night!
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:29 PM
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At the risk of being very wanky, this is the point of the ice-cream/ants scene. Jimmy had a good thing but he can't keep it. As soon as one ant finds it, that's it - more ants come and they swarm relentlessly till it's ruined. There's no recovery past that first contact. It's practically systemic - it's not about this ant or that ant, but about basic laws of nature that drive an ecosystem. As Nacho says, "Once you're in, you're in".
I pretty much saw that the same way - but more along the lines of losing ones identity. The first ant (or scam) is pretty minor, the ant that climbed all the way to the top of the cone (LOVED the yodeling music!) represents just how fun that life is. But scam after scam takes a toll and by the time Jimmy comes back and sees the melted cone on the ground it represents the death of Jimmy McGill.

I think the scenes with the beer bottle were also symbolic. When Jimmy takes Kim's empty bottle and puts it on the ledge she kept watching it teeter. Is it safe or going to fall? I think Kim is going through the same thing - safe is following the law, but she's just on the edge of falling off. This is why I think her story was mostly a lie. When she came back home and threw her bottles into the parking lot I feel like it's her saying "fuck it" to the straight and narrow path.

Symbolism of course varies with the viewer! What scares me a little with Kim is how depressed she looks - I hope suicide doesn't come in but I get a vibe from her that if it's not on the forefront of her mind it's there somewhere.

Last edited by Frazzled; 03-05-2020 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:32 PM
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Interesting thing I just thought of while reading this: Kim's current issues actually stem from Jimmy helping her get Mesa Verde away from HHM. If, as clearly would have happened without the Chuck sabotage, MV had decided that HHM was the way to go, Kim would have actually had an independent practice. She would have had to work to build up some initial clients, but would be free to balance them between 'regular' and 'pro bono', would not have just one 'big bank' paying client, and would not be beholden to any one of them in particular. Mesa Verde really was too big for her to handle alone, and so she was basically forced into working with S&K, which is a good job but not what she chose and it doesn't fit her - a lot like Jimmy at D&M, though less severe. I think a Kim working an independent practice, even if she was struggling a bit, would be much happier.

I wonder if she's going to think of that, and resent Jimmy for helping her in a way that's led her to a place where she's well off financially in what would be a dream job to most people but that isn't what she actually wants. (In addition to the help causing a major problem for both of them and being wildly unethical)

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Symbolism of course varies with the viewer! What scares me a little with Kim is how depressed she looks - I hope suicide doesn't come in but I get a vibe from her that if it's not on the forefront of her mind it's there somewhere.
I don't see anything indicating that. She doesn't like where she is and is conflicted about what to do, but there's no indication that she feels like there's no hope for her life, and no indication that she's had issues with major depression or anything like that. It also feels like it would be a cheap resolution to her arc, turning her from a strong character into more of a plot point to generate tragedy for Jimmy.
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:20 PM
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That's what you get from having a job that's nonstop action/adventure all day. You adrenaline junkies, you keep needing your rush late into the night!

Yeah, that's me, all right! Hell, I've come to the conclusion that the two most important criteria for my job are a high tolerance for boredom and a strong bladder!

Of course, I quickly realized that I could call a recess anytime I wanted without giving any reason, so there really isn't a need for a strong bladder!
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:44 AM
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I find Kim really unpredictable - I'm not sure that she is going to pull up.
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I was struck by the thought that Kim was telling the truth to this guy and he didn't believe her, whereas Saul would pull the same stunt, except he'd be lying the whole time and the mark would fall for it hook, line and sinker. Also, she's doing it out of kindness but Saul would have done it for money.
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I think the scenes with the beer bottle were also symbolic.
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I wonder if she's going to think of that, and resent Jimmy for helping her in a way that's led her to a place where she's well off financially in what would be a dream job to most people but that isn't what she actually wants.
You all make really good points. I have to admit that my view that Kim is going to pull up is very much coloured by the fact I only want good things for her. Frazzled's point about the beer bottles is making me think harder about that.

But my main take away from this discussion is that it's testament to the show. The writing and Rhea Seehorn's performance are nuanced and layered enough for there to be (broadly) two opposed views of how a character's story will develop - and both views are plausible based on what we have seen on screen. Kim isn't a mindless predictable automaton, but at the same time whatever she does choose to do will be a natural development of her personality and we can confident it won't seem like a random act of madness.
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:44 AM
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Another thing I'm wondering about this week's episode (Season 5 number 3). Where was Gene? No Gene segment? Why not??
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:55 AM
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Another thing I'm wondering about this week's episode (Season 5 number 3). Where was Gene? No Gene segment? Why not??
Gene so far has only appeared as the cold open to the entire series. As far as I recall he's never been in an episode that wasn't the first one of the series.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:01 AM
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Gene so far has only appeared as the cold open to the entire series. As far as I recall he's never been in an episode that wasn't the first one of the series.
IIRC he always appears at the beginning of the first episode of a season, and at the end of the last episode of a season, too.

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Old 03-06-2020, 10:05 AM
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IIRC he always appears at the beginning of the first episode of a season, and at the end of the last episode of a season, too.
Nope just the beginning of a season. My use of "series" meant "season". In the UK the word is used for both, and I forgot that may be misunderstood on a US board.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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Throwing beer bottles off of a balcony is a tradition in New Mexico.

Well, not really a tradition, but it has been done before.
  #93  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:30 AM
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Gene so far has only appeared as the cold open to the entire series. As far as I recall he's never been in an episode that wasn't the first one of the series.
Ah! I think you're right. I've been binge-watching seasons 1-4 and I got confused, thinking he was appearing in random cold openings all through the seasons.
  #94  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:18 AM
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There weren't officers stationed behind to see if anyone tried to escape when the front door is forced in? If this was the case Nacho wouldn't have been able to get out with the drugs.
It's a standard TV trope in my experience - no one ever considers that there are doors and windows in the back of a house (sometimes they do catch people going out windows on the side).

Hawaii 5-0 is particularly bad for this - 30 cops on the street in front of the house for the standoff 15 minutes into the program, and the bad guy runs out the back to allow the next 45 minutes to have meaning.
  #95  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:32 PM
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[QUOTE=Stanislaus;22167555]
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Yeah, absolutely. There was lots going on for Mike there. Obviously, he was hungover and in charge of a kid, which is no fun. And despite his valiant efforts to distract her on to another topic, she kept to the worst possible topic she could: her Dad, and how he died.
Right. I wasn't saying it was unrealistic for Mike to react that way. If anything, the opposite. It just seemed too on the nose. Too obvious.

Fortunately, I enjoyed the third episode far more than the first two, and definitely feel like the show is back in gear.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:41 PM
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Kim isn't a mindless predictable automaton, but at the same time whatever she does choose to do will be a natural development of her personality and we can confident it won't seem like a random act of madness.
I agree, one of the best things about the show is how many weird but believable characters they have built and how much depth they give them. Jimmy, Kim, Howard, Mike, Nacho and Chuck all feel like real people with real motivations, even if they're a bit over the top to drive drama. Some like Gus or Lalo might qualify as unrealistic, but even then they have clear motivations and personalities, they aren't just The Bad Guy. Even a lot of the more minor characters tend to come off as full people - notably people like Rich Schweikart and Cliff Main aren't just background 'law firm owners' and the Vet isn't just 'criminal contacts guy', they all have distinct voices and histories, and you could easily imagine basing a show around them if you focused on them more. And 'random act of madness' is a good phrase to mention, because Chuck was a great antagonist who's mental illness contributed greatly to the story without being the reason for his villainy, being a throwaway joke, or being simply an impediment.
  #97  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:20 PM
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In the last ep Saul had a client charged with robbery, the victim made a absolute positive ID only for Saul to note that the actual defendant was sitting in the back of the courtroom and nbot at the defense table. I know I've seen that bit before, anybody know where?
  #98  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:11 PM
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Can someone remind me about what happened to Chuck's financial interests in HHM?
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:20 PM
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Post therapy-and-meditation Howard offering Jimmy a job was a surprise for me - I really didn't think that would be his angle. I think Howard must think that the document doctoring was all in Chuck's head, because I can't see him wanting to bring Jimmy in otherwise. I don't think Saul will seriously try to work for HHM, but I wouldn't put it past Saul to accept the job and do something to tarnish what he sees as his brother's legacy.

I think that Jimmy with the "50% off" idiots was the first time we've seen the full-on Saul Goodman tactic of badgering his own clients the show. He is slick, has no hesitation slamming on his previous profession, boasts about how awesome he is and uses other shady dealings to enahnce himself, and has no concern for how his clients get their money. It's a stark contrast with his elder law persona where he'd sit with an elderly client and go over her Hummel figurines until he had every detail right.

Saul's 'visual aid' of a bestiality pic was very clever; Ackerman clearly didn't want to listen to any slick lawyers, and a powerpoint or detailed contract would just piss him off. Giving him something so over-the-top disgusting brought his rant to a complete standstill long enough for Saul to work his magic. I think Kim's 'cover story' will be that she told Jimmy about the case, he got furious at Big Money Mesa Verde pushing the little guy around and said he was going to put a stop to it, and that she offered the 'lets use our plan B' to try to forestall his lawsuit. There are a lot of ways that this situation can blow up for Kim, Jimmy, or both, and I really have no idea where the ride will stop. I suspect that it's going to end the season with Kim and Jimmy on good terms, though Kim might not have her current job.

Gus stressing out over letting his dead drops get discovered was another one of the great scenes that you wouldn't think is good from the description. "Ruthless drug lord shames assistant fast food manager into cleaning and recleaning a fryer because of his on unease" just doesn't seem like something you'd say. Lyle is not ever going to let someone leave without covering the fryer again.
  #100  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:27 PM
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Can someone remind me about what happened to Chuck's financial interests in HHM?
When Chuck threatened to sue Howard, Howard used a combination of HHM's resources and personal loans to buy out Chuck's partial ownership of the firm. He gave Chuck the first of three checks just before the big 'Chuck is retiring, everyone' scene where Chuck was walked out of HHM. While it's not specified in the show, I think that what Howard did was have HHM sell off part of its ownership interest to other partners, buy back some directly, and that he used his personal fortune and loans to buy the rest himself. (So he's in debt, but also owns more of HHM than he did before). When Chuck died, he willed most of his estate to Rebecca, and the balance of the funds went to her. (Plus they probably had to reissue the first check, since I doubt Chuck cashed it before burning everything).
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