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Old 02-26-2020, 09:50 AM
Jim Peebles is offline
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vaping lung damage and coronavirus


Does anyone else remember the "epidemic" of lung damage due to vaping that was in the news towards the end of last year?
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...amage-in-teens
How many of the coronavirus casualties were vapers? (I read smokers are considered a higher risk, and "a lot" of Chinese males are smokers, but how about vaping?) Could the coronavirus be a "bad cold" that is particularly bad for vapers? And when did the technology to gene sequence a virus start being used to track infections? Could the panic be due to a confluence of a specific virus identification technology being newly available, and also a new type of lung damage from vaping starting to pop up?
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:20 PM
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Does anyone else remember the "epidemic" of lung damage due to vaping that was in the news towards the end of last year?
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...amage-in-teens
How many of the coronavirus casualties were vapers? (I read smokers are considered a higher risk, and "a lot" of Chinese males are smokers, but how about vaping?) Could the coronavirus be a "bad cold" that is particularly bad for vapers? And when did the technology to gene sequence a virus start being used to track infections? Could the panic be due to a confluence of a specific virus identification technology being newly available, and also a new type of lung damage from vaping starting to pop up?
Hubei province is notoriously polluted, and air pollution is associated with respiratory deaths, but there doesn't seem to have been a sudden collapse in the death rate now that infection has escaped to other parts of the world. France is at 2 out or 18?

Specific virus identification has come a long way in the last 50 years. It used to be that people just died from unidentified respiratory diseases, and yes, with an infection number of 80,000, COV-19 might not have even registered 50 years ago. Legionnaires disease wasn't a thing until they identified the responsible pathogen.

Vaping is normally not as hot as smoking, and doesn't burn you as much, so as a generalization, it is expected to have less effect on your susceptibility to colds.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:26 PM
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The lung damage from vaping was strongly correlated to vitamin E acetate, used as an additive in many unbranded vaping products.

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Could the coronavirus be a "bad cold" that is particularly bad for vapers?
Covid-19 isn't "a bad cold" and it doesn't appear to be related to vaping. The most susceptible are the very old and very young, who probably aren't heavy vapers.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
The lung damage from vaping was strongly correlated to vitamin E acetate, used as an additive in many unbranded vaping products.


Covid-19 isn't "a bad cold" and it doesn't appear to be related to vaping. The most susceptible are the very old and very young, who probably aren't heavy vapers.
The NYT says the very young are particularly NOT susceptible to coronavirus:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/h...-children.html
Do you have a source which says otherwise?

And I just found an article showing "vaping lung disease" has a fatality rate of 39/2000=0.0195 (they say "more than 2000" and "at least 39", but I assume the numbers are close):
https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...amin-e-acetate
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:09 PM
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The lung damage from vaping was strongly correlated to vitamin E acetate, used as an additive in many unbranded vaping products.
I think it's more specifically used to dilute THC oil for vaping purposes.

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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Covid-19 isn't "a bad cold" and it doesn't appear to be related to vaping. The most susceptible are the very old and very young, who probably aren't heavy vapers.
I thought there were essentially no children affected. I have seen the recent infections of children in Italy described as almost the first.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:52 PM
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Ah, my mistake about the very young.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:20 PM
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I did a search and found absolutely nothing that correlates coronavirus and vapers.

As Telemark noted, the CDC found that Vitamin E acetate was the primary cause of the lung disease and now that it's been eliminated the lung disease is dropping accordingly.

Kathleen Sebelius, former HHS Secretary, said we don't know yet what groups coronavirus is targeting so it is conceivable that a connection may yet be made. At this point, however, there's no good reason to do so. Sounds too much like an internet conspiracy theory.

However, the difference between a flu and a bad cold is profound. They should never be confused.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:37 AM
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Apologies for raising this point again, but I read somewhere that Young'uns and the old one are more likely prone to novel corona virus. So, is there any study suggesting probabilities of the virus in age-groups?
We need to distinguish between "prone to getting" and "prone to dying from". I think, based on the NYT article, the young are prone to NOT die from the coronavirus. But is there a source saying otherwise?
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:14 AM
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The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years.

The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:19 AM
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The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years.

The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets.
Maybe bad additives were in Wuhan vape products recently? It doesn't even have to be THC, perhaps the nicotine ones.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:37 AM
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Maybe bad additives were in Wuhan vape products recently? It doesn't even have to be THC, perhaps the nicotine ones.
There has been no connection found between vaping and COVID19.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:52 AM
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The THC vapes were contaminated because concentrated THC is very expensive and the sellers diluted it to lower the price and to make it look like the thick THC. Nicotine is very inexpensive and looks thin and watery; it makes no sense to dilute it.

Please forget about vaping and Coronavirus. You are on the wrong track altogether.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:20 AM
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Yeah, I could be on the wrong track, but I am learning a lot. Check out this:
https://www.leafly.com/news/politics...igation-leafly
The patient's condition sounds like what you would expect from severe Coronavirus. Then they reveal vaping devices and additives (including vitamin E acetate) are made in China. It isn't a stretch to imagine the factory workers were putting the various additives in the devices and trying it.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:31 AM
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Maybe not as much as you think if you believe those symptoms resemble coronavirus.

They don't. And putting together a string of "ifs" doesn't make a connection.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:43 AM
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Maybe not as much as you think if you believe those symptoms resemble coronavirus.

They don't. And putting together a string of "ifs" doesn't make a connection.
Severe pneumonia developing over weeks sounds like the Coronavirus to me. And in the article it is revealed the CDC thought what he had was contagious:

Quote:
When doctors at Manhasset’s North Shore University Hospital learned he’d recently visited China, they quarantined him and tested him for various ailments. All came back negative.

Next came a battery of nearly a dozen infectious disease specialists and Centers for Disease Control officials. They clustered around Doneson, who even in his feverish state knew how surreal the scene looked—bed-ridden in a pressurized room with a red quarantine sticker on the door. As he recalls it, “I was totally in disbelief.”
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:30 AM
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Severe pneumonia developing over weeks sounds like the Coronavirus to me.
Where do you see that as a description of COVID19?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019.../symptoms.html
Quote:
Symptoms can include:
Fever
Cough
Shortness of breath

CDC believes at this time that symptoms of COVID-19 may appear in as few as 2 days or as long as 14 days after exposure.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:42 AM
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Where do you see that as a description of COVID19?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019.../symptoms.html
Well the article said he had a fever and cough. It did not say shortness of breath, but he had pneumonia, so he probably did and it was just not mentioned in the article. The severe cases of Coronavirus are said to result in pneumonia all over the news.

Last edited by Jim Peebles; 02-27-2020 at 11:46 AM. Reason: verb tense
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:54 AM
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Then they reveal vaping devices and additives (including vitamin E acetate) are made in China.
Everything is made in China, what is your point? Vitamin E acetate is not a toxic substance unless you vape it or deliver it into your lungs. Lots of things shouldn't be going into your lungs. It's readily available for sale here in the US. The people putting it into the THC vapes were mostly local dealers following a "formula" so the could maximize their profits by filling a demand for THC vapes, not some company in China trying to poison the world.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:54 AM
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Severe pneumonia developing over weeks sounds like the Coronavirus to me. And in the article it is revealed the CDC thought what he had was contagious:
Just so we're on the same page about coronavirus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medline Plus
COVID-19 can cause respiratory illness that ranges from mild to severe or even deadly. The symptoms usually start between 2 to 14 days after you get infected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by American Lung Assocation
For the milder strains, respiratory symptoms like a runny nose, headache, cough, sore throat, fever and fatigue are common. If an infection progresses to something more severe, it can cause pneumonia, bronchitis, kidney failure and even death.
From your link:

Quote:
Jon Doneson started feeling ill on a Friday morning in June, after he arrived home in New York on a red-eye flight from the West Coast. He’d traveled to China, then to California, as part of his job managing the back office of his wife Susan’s apparel company. He hoped to re-acclimate to Eastern time, so rather than resting he went to the gym. But he became ill after his workout, vomiting violently and sweating heavily.

Doneson, 52, wrote it off to fatigue. In subsequent weeks Susan pointed out that he had a strange cough. But to Doneson it wasn’t particularly bothersome. ...

Then, on August 12, he woke up around 5:30 a.m. feeling something different.
Let's compare Doneson's case to coronavirus.

In June, vomiting and sweating after a workout. These are not coronavirus symptoms. Moreover, they appear to have vanished after the one incident. Again, not similar to coronavirus.

A cough developed in July. A cough is one symptom, true, but the accompanying symptoms were not present. Coughs, of course, can have a million different causes.

It was not until August 12 that he presented with truly serious symptoms, some of which did resemble those of coronavirus. But note the date. We're not told when he traveled to China, just that it was June. That makes it 33 to 63 days earlier. (And his ailments progressed slowly while he was in the hospital, again not similar to severe coronavirus.)

Of course the doctors suspected as possibilities that he might have caught something contagious in China. But nothing about his individual case resembles anything we now know about coronavirus. Not to mention that he was in China in June, a full six months before the first cases were reported. And that we now know the actual cause of his lung problems, not a virus.

Cherrypicking a few words out a case to fit a previously-decided on disease is outright dangerous. If an actual doctor had done this, it would be malpractice. Fortunately for Doneson his actual doctors did nothing so foolish.

Even so, internet scaremongering and conspiracy theory fanning are to be avoided at all times, and more so when a crisis hits.

Last edited by Exapno Mapcase; 02-27-2020 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:01 PM
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The Coronaviris is a contagious ‘disease’ caused by a virus.

The American ‘vaping illness’ is direct damage to the lungs caused by chemical exposure.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Just so we're on the same page about coronavirus:





From your link:


Let's compare Doneson's case to coronavirus.

In June, vomiting and sweating after a workout. These are not coronavirus symptoms. Moreover, they appear to have vanished after the one incident. Again, not similar to coronavirus.

A cough developed in July. A cough is one symptom, true, but the accompanying symptoms were not present. Coughs, of course, can have a million different causes.

It was not until August 12 that he presented with truly serious symptoms, some of which did resemble those of coronavirus. But note the date. We're not told when he traveled to China, just that it was June. That makes it 33 to 63 days earlier. (And his ailments progressed slowly while he was in the hospital, again not similar to severe coronavirus.)

Of course the doctors suspected as possibilities that he might have caught something contagious in China. But nothing about his individual case resembles anything we now know about coronavirus. Not to mention that he was in China in June, a full six months before the first cases were reported. And that we now know the actual cause of his lung problems, not a virus.

Cherrypicking a few words out a case to fit a previously-decided on disease is outright dangerous. If an actual doctor had done this, it would be malpractice. Fortunately for Doneson his actual doctors did nothing so foolish.

Even so, internet scaremongering and conspiracy theory fanning are to be avoided at all times, and more so when a crisis hits.
How is it scaremongering? Where's the purported conspiracy? All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs. And vaping with certain additives can give you bad lungs. Why would it be dangerous for someone to stop vaping with products with vitamin E acetate as an additive?
  #22  
Old 02-27-2020, 12:52 PM
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All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs.
Except that is not the case. You don't seem to be looking at the evidence presented. There are plenty of reasons to avoid vaping, but this isn't really one of them.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:56 PM
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Except that is not the case. You don't seem to be looking at the evidence presented. There are plenty of reasons to avoid vaping, but this isn't really one of them.
What dataset are you talking about?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:08 PM
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What dataset are you talking about?
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-de...-coronaviruses
Quote:
While we are still learning about how COVID-2019 affects people, older persons and persons with pre-existing medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart disease, or diabetes) appear to develop serious illness more often than others.
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:38 AM
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Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out:
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml
Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery?
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Old 03-03-2020, 11:38 AM
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Since the Chinese government did everything possible to hide, obfuscate, and dismiss the onset and severity of the virus, I would think very long and hard about waiting to hear from a second source rather than base any conclusions on a Wuhan University professor, i.e. a government employee, quoted in what Wiki calls "a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's People's Daily newspaper."

Propaganda works best when it tells people what they want to hear. They'll stop investigating at that point.

Contrarily, the whole purpose of the Dope is to tear apart the propaganda and see it for what it is.

Your choice.
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Old 03-03-2020, 12:40 PM
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The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years.

The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets.
Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency.

In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years.

https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/...da-hands-tied/
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:05 PM
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Propaganda works best when it tells people what they want to hear. They'll stop investigating at that point.
Besides the fact that article is saying that some vaping related deaths may be Coronavirus instead of the affects of vaping a tainted product (the opposite of the OP's conjecture), here are some quotes from the actual article:

Quote:
"There must be a possibility,"

The situation might exist that some pneumonia cases of unclear causes are not identified on time

"At least, there should be further investigation and research when mysterious illness occurs."

Zhi, also vice president of the Chinese Association on Tobacco Control, questioned the sudden death cases of vaping, implying there might be other causes.
In other words, there is no evidence at all, just guesswork.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:09 PM
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In other words, there is no evidence at all, just guesswork.
Exactly. The whole article boils down to: LOOK OVER THERE!
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:15 PM
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Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency.

In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years.

https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/...da-hands-tied/
I am not sure why you think Turble is in the vaping industry or why you believe he has said anything about FDA testing, because he hasn't. All he has said about vape liquids, correctly, is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted vape liquids were black market THC vape canisters and that commercial nicotine-containing liquids were unaffected.

Last edited by Cleophus; 03-03-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:19 PM
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Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out:
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml
Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery?
This is delusional
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:22 PM
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Maybe bad additives were in Wuhan vape products recently? It doesn't even have to be THC, perhaps the nicotine ones.
No. Because the "bad vape cartidges" were traced to people screwing around with them here in the US. There was a bust up in Kenosha, WI, for example, that involved a clandestine business manufacturing crappy THC cartridges using vitamin E acetate.

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Yeah, I could be on the wrong track, but I am learning a lot.
Yes, you are on the wrong track and no, you are not learning a lot. You are just doubling-down on this misbegotten conspiracy theory of yours.

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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Check out this:
https://www.leafly.com/news/politics...igation-leafly
The patient's condition sounds like what you would expect from severe Coronavirus. Then they reveal vaping devices and additives (including vitamin E acetate) are made in China. It isn't a stretch to imagine the factory workers were putting the various additives in the devices and trying it.
First, I am NOT going to a site that makes me answer questions before showing me what you purport is "proof" of your whack-a-loon theory, especially when it asks permission to remember me for a month or more. WTF? Are you working to generate click revenue for those guys?

Second, based on what other people have said, those who were willing to click through the BS, apparently no, the patient's condition is NOT what you'd expect from the covid-19 virus.

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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Severe pneumonia developing over weeks sounds like the Coronavirus to me.
That's not how it works. The "severe pneumonia" tends to develop very rapidly but go right ahead with your confirmation bias if it makes you happy.

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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
And in the article it is revealed the CDC thought what he had was contagious:
ANY time someone shows up with an undiagnosed, severe illness without obvious cause "Is this contagious?" is always a question that comes up and must be answered one way or another. Seriously, dude, when I was hospitalized in 2005 with norovirus I was subjected to a fair number of quarantine measures.

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Well the article said he had a fever and cough. It did not say shortness of breath, but he had pneumonia, so he probably did and it was just not mentioned in the article. The severe cases of Coronavirus are said to result in pneumonia all over the news.
OK, you read something about someone having "fever and a cough" and extrapolated that to OMG IT'S THE 2020 PLAGUE!!!!!!

Chill, dude, you're acting ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Turble View Post
The Coronaviris is a contagious ‘disease’ caused by a virus.

The American ‘vaping illness’ is direct damage to the lungs caused by chemical exposure.
^ This, Mr. Peebles, THIS.

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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
How is it scaremongering?
When you won't let this conspiracy theory go but keep posting about it? That's scaremongering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs.
Apparently none of the actual REAL health experts and doctors are saying that so..... you know, I'm going to believe medical professionals over you or some other random guy on the internet trying to dig up/distort facts to fit his pre-conceived conspiracy theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
And vaping with certain additives can give you bad lungs.
Yes. We know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Why would it be dangerous for someone to stop vaping with products with vitamin E acetate as an additive?
Mr. Peebles, this statement does not even make sense. Please take a deep breath, calm down, and let this go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out:
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml
Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery?
Or is it someone (or a few people) in China trying to deflect and confuse the issue so that this pandemic is no longer associated so strongly with China in the minds of others? Because, you know, there couldn't possibly be such an incentive there...
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:25 PM
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is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted
This should just be vitamin E acetate.

Last edited by Cleophus; 03-03-2020 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:31 PM
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First, I am NOT going to a site that makes me answer questions before showing me what you purport is "proof" of your whack-a-loon theory, especially when it asks permission to remember me for a month or more. WTF? Are you working to generate click revenue for those guys?
While a good concern in general, in this case the website in question is a cannabis distributor and the question is simply an age gate, the same as a brewery website asking whether you are over 21.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:40 PM
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Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that where I live cannabis is still illegal? My local authorities would view going to such a site much the same as if I contacted someone selling heroin or pimping out whores.

Not that I expect those authorities to kick down my door and examine my search history, but NSFW sites should carry at least a warning and a brief description of what they are.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:57 PM
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Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that where I live cannabis is still illegal? My local authorities would view going to such a site much the same as if I contacted someone selling heroin or pimping out whores.

Not that I expect those authorities to kick down my door and examine my search history, but NSFW sites should carry at least a warning and a brief description of what they are.
I don't believe that. I'm sorry but I just don't. Unless you were to actually attempt purchasing there is no evidence of intent to purchase marijuana, especially because the linked page is a news article and not a store page. It's not a crime to research marijuana sales. Even in your example of contacting someone selling heroin, a crime has not been committed, or alternately an undercover officer would not be able to arrest until you move past asking "hey, you selling?" and actually initiate a transaction by asking for the product specifically or respond to a solicitation by offering money. And lastly, cannabis is still illegal everywhere in the US, notwithstanding local laws to the contrary. Plus it is also illegal for me to purchase cannabis even by local law, seeing as I don't have a medical marijuana certificate, so that part just falls flat for me as well.

Last edited by Cleophus; 03-03-2020 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 03-03-2020, 02:24 PM
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This. We live in a free country still. Researching information is entirely legal. I cannot understand what level of paranoia would make anyone think that the local authorities would have any difficulty with that.
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Old 03-03-2020, 02:40 PM
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I am not sure why you think Turble is in the vaping industry or why you believe he has said anything about FDA testing, because he hasn't. All he has said about vape liquids, correctly, is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted vape liquids were black market THC vape canisters and that commercial nicotine-containing liquids were unaffected.

Cleophus, Turble stated "The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years."

"The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets."

Turble's statement sounds to me like it's coming from someone with a vested interest who is defending the commercially available products.

My point is that we don't know what the fuck is in any of these products, and I strongly suspect the motives of anyone who is so quick to defend the "safe" commercial products by placing all of the blame on the "black market" products.

I apologize if my impression is wrong - in the meantime feel free to puff away to your hearts content - just don't do it around me.
  #39  
Old 03-03-2020, 02:48 PM
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This. We live in a free country still. Researching information is entirely legal. I cannot understand what level of paranoia would make anyone think that the local authorities would have any difficulty with that.
"At will" employment.

As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired.

It's crass. It's inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others.

End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must.
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Old 03-03-2020, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris 7:14 View Post
"The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets."
That's essentially what the CDC is saying, although they can't recommend using THC.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...cdc-recommends
Quote:
CDC and FDA recommend that people not use THC-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, products, particularly from informal sources like friends, family, or in-person or online dealers.
Quote:
Adults using nicotine-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, products as an alternative to cigarettes should not go back to smoking; they should weigh all available information and consider using FDA-approved smoking cessation medicationsexternal icon. If they choose to use e-cigarettes as an alternative to cigarettes, they should completely switch from cigarettes to e-cigarettes and not partake in an extended period of dual use of both products that delays quitting smoking completely. They should contact their healthcare professional if they need help quitting tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, as well as if they have concerns about EVALI.

Last edited by Telemark; 03-03-2020 at 03:11 PM.
  #41  
Old 03-03-2020, 03:49 PM
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"At will" employment.

As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired.

It's crass. It's inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others.

End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must.
You said "local authorities," not your bosses at work. You mentioned them kicking down your door, if only to dismiss it; again, such an action cannot be associated with your work site.

Certainly NSFW sites should be flagged, although it's unclear to me whether a news page about a major news story is indeed NSFW. I'm sure various worksites would view it in different ways. To be honest I wouldn't have flagged it either.

In short, your comments were confusing if you meant work and not the government. You may have known what you meant by your words but two posters here clearly read them differently.
  #42  
Old 03-03-2020, 04:48 PM
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Does anyone else remember the "epidemic" of lung damage due to vaping that was in the news towards the end of last year?
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...amage-in-teens
How many of the coronavirus casualties were vapers? (I read smokers are considered a higher risk, and "a lot" of Chinese males are smokers, but how about vaping?) Could the coronavirus be a "bad cold" that is particularly bad for vapers? And when did the technology to gene sequence a virus start being used to track infections? Could the panic be due to a confluence of a specific virus identification technology being newly available, and also a new type of lung damage from vaping starting to pop up?
So, do you suppose those six people who died in Washington state were vapers?
  #43  
Old 03-03-2020, 06:57 PM
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"At will" employment.

As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired.

It's crass. It's inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others.

End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must.
You know, these days decaf doesn't taste too bad at all, really. Give it a try and see if it helps calm you down.
  #44  
Old 03-04-2020, 08:46 AM
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I did a search and found absolutely nothing that correlates coronavirus and vapers.

As Telemark noted, the CDC found that Vitamin E acetate was the primary cause of the lung disease and now that it's been eliminated the lung disease is dropping accordingly.

Kathleen Sebelius, former HHS Secretary, said we don't know yet what groups coronavirus is targeting so it is conceivable that a connection may yet be made. At this point, however, there's no good reason to do so. Sounds too much like an internet conspiracy theory.

However, the difference between a flu and a bad cold is profound. They should never be confused.
Do you really expect to see a study to have even started in the few months since Covid-19 was first diagnosed? Anything which compromises lung function puts someone at greater risk of death from Covid-19. Vaping compromises cilia cells (the very ones Covid-19 attacks) as well as alveolar macrophages which are crucial for cell damage mitigation and repair.
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Old 03-04-2020, 08:55 AM
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Do you really expect to see a study to have even started in the few months since Covid-19 was first diagnosed? Anything which compromises lung function puts someone at greater risk of death from Covid-19. Vaping compromises cilia cells (the very ones Covid-19 attacks) as well as alveolar macrophages which are crucial for cell damage mitigation and repair.
True, but there's plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP's conjecture was that COVID-19 isn't a big deal, but it's only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false.

If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don't think there's anything controversial about that. But that's not the point of the OP.
  #46  
Old 03-04-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
I did a search and found absolutely nothing that correlates coronavirus and vapers.

As Telemark noted, the CDC found that Vitamin E acetate was the primary cause of the lung disease and now that it's been eliminated the lung disease is dropping accordingly.

Kathleen Sebelius, former HHS Secretary, said we don't know yet what groups coronavirus is targeting so it is conceivable that a connection may yet be made. At this point, however, there's no good reason to do so. Sounds too much like an internet conspiracy theory.

However, the difference between a flu and a bad cold is profound. They should never be confused.
I see now you said Coronavirus and not Covid-19. Nevertheless, absence of evidence/evidence of absence and all that. And my point about lung function still holds.
  #47  
Old 03-04-2020, 09:15 AM
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True, but there's plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP's conjecture was that COVID-19 isn't a big deal, but it's only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false.

If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don't think there's anything controversial about that. But that's not the point of the OP.
Oh for sure. Early in his post the OP seemed to be asking if vaping could be a risk factor, but now I see in their last sentence they attempted to place far too much importance on vaping.
  #48  
Old 03-04-2020, 09:18 AM
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True, but there's plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP's conjecture was that COVID-19 isn't a big deal, but it's only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false.

If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don't think there's anything controversial about that. But that's not the point of the OP.
Oh for sure. Early in his post, the OP seemed to be asking if vaping could be a risk factor, but now I see I missed that last sentence that placed far too much importance on vaping in explaining this epidemic.
  #49  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris 7:14 View Post
Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency.

In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years.

https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/...da-hands-tied/
I have no connection to any e-cigarette business other than as a customer.

This post and your follow-ups are so bizarre you leave me speechless.
  #50  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:01 PM
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True, but there's plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP's conjecture was that COVID-19 isn't a big deal, but it's only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false.

If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don't think there's anything controversial about that. But that's not the point of the OP.
No, my conjecture is NOT "it's only serious when in combination with a vaping related illness". My conjecture is: it is not a monster virus, it is a run of the mill virus, and the reason a run of the mill virus caused the Chinese to freak out so dramatically, is that their population had a newly prevalent form of lung damage from vaping bad additives, just as black market vapers in the USA were noted to have by the CDC back in September 2019.

Last edited by Jim Peebles; 03-04-2020 at 12:03 PM.
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