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Old 03-18-2020, 12:53 PM
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Earthquake hits Salt Lake City -- causes Moroni to Drop his Trumpet


...and half of his arm, as well.

I hope all Utah Dopers are well. From all reports, although the earthquake epicenter only a few miles from downtown, and it registered 5.7, there wasn't much serious damage.

I hadn't realized that the temple was undergoing renovations, or that the Southern wall and the Visitors Center (presumably the Southern one, with the "Molten Sea" in it) have been demolished.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3...arthquake-utah
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:22 PM
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At least we are clear now who God sent the coronavirus to punish. Watch soon for suspiciously Mormon-shaped pillars of salt on Ebay.
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:32 PM
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Obviously this is a sign.

These are the last days. Prepare thyself!
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:34 PM
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He probably figured that nobody would be able to hear him blowing that horn from all the way up there anyway, so decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep holding his arm up.
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:53 PM
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What Cal didn't mention from the article is that the temple was closed for a "seismic upgrade."
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Old 03-18-2020, 02:06 PM
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I spent the first 13 years of my life in SLC and remember it is quite earthquake prone. We lived practically on top of the Wasatch fault, so it was hard to ignore. Glad all is mostly well!

The OP's thread title did cause me to laugh out loud when I read it, so thanks for that. Also pretty funny about the reason for the temple closure
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Old 03-18-2020, 02:45 PM
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I lived in SLC until almost exactly one year ago, and the fault lines there were one of the reasons why I wanted to get out of the area. There's a fault line near my old house, and we were in the "liquefaction" zone.

Just this morning I woke up thinking, "Boy, with everything that's been going on lately, wouldn't it suck if SLC got hit by the big one?"

The area is overdue for an earthguake, and when it does finally go, it's gonna go big. There's really only one highway going through the valley, so if that gets damaged there's going to be a lot of people trapped in their collapsing homes with very little opportunity for rescue.
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Old 03-18-2020, 02:49 PM
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What Cal didn't mention from the article is that the temple was closed for a "seismic upgrade."
I suppose the addition of 2% spandex to the fabric of magical underwear is in the remediation plan, too. You know, for your sudden unplanned urgent travel needs.
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Old 03-18-2020, 03:33 PM
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Plague, locusts (in Africa), and now earthquakes. When will the rain of blood happen?
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Old 03-18-2020, 03:46 PM
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I will never get a better opening for this...

One day at the Vatican, the head Cardinal came into the Pope's office and said, "Holy Father, I have some good news and some bad news."

The Pope replied, "What's the good news?"

"Jesus Christ is on the phone and he wants to talk to you."

"Oh?" said the Pope. "What's the bad news?"

"He's calling from Salt Lake City."



ThelmaLou has left scurried away from the building.

Hope everyone in Utah is okay.

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-18-2020 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 03-18-2020, 09:52 PM
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I spent the first 13 years of my life in SLC and remember it is quite earthquake prone. We lived practically on top of the Wasatch fault, so it was hard to ignore. Glad all is mostly well!

The OP's thread title did cause me to laugh out loud when I read it, so thanks for that. Also pretty funny about the reason for the temple closure
I lived about two blocks from Wasatch Fault Park in SLC for four years. Fourth South suddenly shoots steeply upward when it hits that fault.

One night I was awakened by the fire escape banging against the side of my apartment building. Who the heck was climbing up the fire escape in the middle of the nigh? I wondered. Then I realized that I'd been awakened by an earthquake.
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Old 03-18-2020, 09:55 PM
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Plague, locusts (in Africa), and now earthquakes. When will the rain of blood happen?
Sadly, Slayer stopped touring; they performed their last tour show at the Forum in LA on 30 November 2019.
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Old 03-18-2020, 10:10 PM
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I heard that the Mormon Church made a worldwide decision to stop having services for the indefinite future, which was a bigger-than-usual decision because 2020 is the 200th anniversary of the church's founding.

Didn't know SLC was in a seismic zone!
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Old 03-19-2020, 04:27 PM
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Mormon church was founded in 1830 Joseph Smith found the plates in 1827. In 1820 Smith saw a vision of Jesus, he was 15 at the time.
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Old 03-19-2020, 04:47 PM
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I lived about two blocks from Wasatch Fault Park in SLC for four years. Fourth South suddenly shoots steeply upward when it hits that fault.

One night I was awakened by the fire escape banging against the side of my apartment building. Who the heck was climbing up the fire escape in the middle of the nigh? I wondered. Then I realized that I'd been awakened by an earthquake.
I remember exactly the site you're talking about. It's impressive, how far that fault slipped!

Lemme guess... you were attending the U of U?

We were snugged up against Mt. Olympus during my time there as a youngster, in Holladay. I moved back briefly in my early 20s and lived in the South Salt Lake area. I remember small earthquakes when I was a kid but don't recall any during my second stint.

Can't say I worried about earthquakes while living there. Now I live in the mother of all earthquake zones and I fret about it a bit more.

I'm still chuckling about Moroni losing his trumpet and his arm. Very glad of course no one was hurt, else it wouldn't be funny at all.
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Old 03-20-2020, 03:29 AM
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Mormon church was founded in 1830 Joseph Smith found the plates in 1827. In 1820 Smith saw a vision of Jesus, he was 15 at the time.
Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system
Quote:
3 Chronology of charges
3.1 In New York (181730)
3.1.1 - Disorderly person, March 1826
3.1.2 - Disorderly person, June 1830
3.2 In Ohio (183138)
3.2.1 - Illegal banking, February 1837
3.2.2 - Conspiracy to murder Newell, June 1837
3.2.3 - Banking fraud, 1838
3.3 In Missouri (183839)
3.3.1 - Threats to Judge Adam Black, August 1838
3.3.2 - Missouri treason case, November 183839
3.4 In Illinois (183944)
3.4.1 - Arrest for fleeing Missouri, 1841
3.4.2 - Conspiracy to murder Governor Boggs, 184243
3.4.3 - Missouri treason case, June 1843
3.4.4 - Perjury, fornication and polygamy, May 1844
3.4.5 - Inciting a riot destroying the Nauvoo Expositor, June 1844
3.4.6 - Treason against Illinois, June 1844
Busy fellow. Did he play trumpet?
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:32 AM
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I lived about two blocks from Wasatch Fault Park in SLC for four years. Fourth South suddenly shoots steeply upward when it hits that fault.
That was my old stomping ground. My childhood house was on Second South between 10th and 11th East, two blocks from there. The block across the street was my paper route and I washed dishes in the Salt City Jail Restaurant (apparently closed in 2006, I do t know if you when were there ) around the corner from there.

Cars would have the toughest time headed up the “hill” as we called the fault line.
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:11 AM
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Perjury, fornication and polygamy
But one night all the men would come around
and slay the conman clown.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:53 AM
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That was my old stomping ground. My childhood house was on Second South between 10th and 11th East, two blocks from there. The block across the street was my paper route and I washed dishes in the Salt City Jail Restaurant (apparently closed in 2006, I do t know if you when were there ) around the corner from there.

Cars would have the toughest time headed up the “hill” as we called the fault line.
My car starting slipping down the street one winter day trying to go up that hill in only a light snow.

I used to ride my bike from my apartment up to the U*, but I never could go all the way up that slope -- I always had to "cheat" and go a different route, despite my long experience cycling up SLC hills.



I took my sister to dinner at the Old Salt City Jail when she came to visit. I hadn't realized that it had closed.


*Yes, I did go to grad school there, as I've said many times on this Board.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:57 AM
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Mormon church was founded in 1830 Joseph Smith found the plates in 1827. In 1820 Smith saw a vision of Jesus, he was 15 at the time.
Nonetheless, I can see the LDS church putting on a big celebration for 2020 -- the First Vision is a Very Big Deal with them, bigger even than the Finding of the Golden Plates. They had a diorama devoted the First Vision at the Mormon Pavilion at the 1964-5 World's Fair. It was depicted two or three times at the Visitor's Centers in Temple Square when I lived out there. I'm sure that most of them judge the start of the LDS from The First Vision rather than any other event.
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:08 PM
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What is/was The First Vision?
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:23 PM
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What is/was The First Vision?
It's a story of how young Joseph allegedly was feeling disaffected by the churches around at the time, went out into the woods and prayed, got attacked by the devil, and then visited by God and Jesus, who told him he should start his own church.

Presuming that this happened, he waited at least ten years between the date of the vision and when he actually got around to starting a church - only after which was the alleged earlier event formally recorded.
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:35 AM
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I lived awhile on the far side of Hill Cumorah where Holy Joe received the plates. All local bars would officially shut down during the annual Mormon fest but did booming business out their side doors. Hookers didn't starve, either. Beer-barrel parties continued at the Erie Canal locks in Palmyra, just down from the old digs of Jennie Churchill, Winnie's mother.

I have stories. Spoiler: the locals aren't bright. Holy Joe converted the adventurous and curious, leaving their dim relatives behind to procreate and bowl. But few earthquakes bothered them, so who got the best of the deal?
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:51 AM
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Huh. I've climbed that hill a couple times on car and foot and had assumed it was another Lake Bonneville shoreline. I also didn't know that SLC was on a fault!
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:06 AM
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Where is this hill? I used to live near Liberty Park for a little while. It sounds like I was close to this, but can't think of a hill - but it was years ago.
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Old 03-21-2020, 04:20 PM
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Where is this hill? I used to live near Liberty Park for a little while. It sounds like I was close to this, but can't think of a hill - but it was years ago.
Several Blocks from Liberty Park -- Faultline Park about at 4th South between 10th and 11th east

https://www.google.com/maps/search/?...ocRsh7cBXLxykc

The hill that was so steep was on 3rd South between 10th and 1th.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:45 PM
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my son lived next to fault line park
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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I lived awhile on the far side of Hill Cumorah where Holy Joe received the plates. All local bars would officially shut down during the annual Mormon fest but did booming business out their side doors. Hookers didn't starve, either. Beer-barrel parties continued at the Erie Canal locks in Palmyra, just down from the old digs of Jennie Churchill, Winnie's mother.

I have stories. Spoiler: the locals aren't bright. Holy Joe converted the adventurous and curious, leaving their dim relatives behind to procreate and bowl. But few earthquakes bothered them, so who got the best of the deal?
I lived in Rochester for about a hundred years in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Or maybe it just felt like that. I had an LDS office mate, and ended up visiting all the LDS high holy sites in the area, attending the Hill Cumorah pageant twice. Definitely a show worth seeing.

And THEN I moved out to Salt Lake City, and got really buried in LDS pop culture.
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Old 03-25-2020, 07:13 AM
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Nonetheless, I can see the LDS church putting on a big celebration for 2020 -- the First Vision is a Very Big Deal with them, bigger even than the Finding of the Golden Plates. They had a diorama devoted the First Vision at the Mormon Pavilion at the 1964-5 World's Fair. It was depicted two or three times at the Visitor's Centers in Temple Square when I lived out there. I'm sure that most of them judge the start of the LDS from The First Vision rather than any other event.
The First Vision is seen as the primary foundational event for Mormonism. Smith meets the entire Mormon godhood: God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, all three of whom are separate individuals, with the first two having actual physical (but "perfect" and "eternal") bodies and the last a spirit.

Long after I left Mormonism, I used to joke with my liberal Catholic friend that the only difference between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity is that the early days happened recently enough that there is documented evident concerning what really happened. There are a number of scholars researching Mormon history as a way of understanding how doctrine can radically change in new religions as there isn't this kind of evidence available for early Christianity.

It's well documented that the version now canonized as part of the LDS scripture could not have occurred. Smith claimed that there were revivals in 1820. Even small details such as this have been shown to be incorrect.

For me, it was interesting to discover that Smith's concept of the godhood evolved radically after the church was formed. In the early days, he was Trinitarian, and the first edition of the Book of Mormon reflected that. Part of it had to be rewritten later to fit his later views of God and Jesus being separate gods.

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The hill that was so steep was on 3rd South between 10th and 1th.
You mean between 11th and 12th East. That hill is a bitch. Second South also used to be quite steep but they redid it back in the 70s to make it less dangerous for cars.

My parents bought a half of a duplex above the hill near 4th South and 12th East for my grandmother to live. Several of us kids took turns living there while going to the U after she passed away.

That was sooooo much nicer than going up the hill everyday.

Last edited by TokyoBayer; 03-25-2020 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:02 AM
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TokyoBayer, can you point to a reliable book or online article that gives more of those changes or discrepancies you mention? Some folks might not be able to tell that there were changes, or the little niggling details that point out errors.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:35 PM
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TokyoBayer, can you point to a reliable book or online article that gives more of those changes or discrepancies you mention? Some folks might not be able to tell that there were changes, or the little niggling details that point out errors.
If you want details about discrepancies in early LDS history, look at the stuff put out by the Utah Lighthouse Mission -- the Tanners.

http://www.utlm.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner

I used to visit their store in SLC, where they sold their privately-printed spiral-bound books that documented discrepancies and problems in the founding days of the LDS church. You will get more detail from their work than anywhere else. More than you want, likely.

Now you can shop online instead of having to go to their store. If you're looking for one book, their magnum opus is Mormonism -- Shadow or Reality?

http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitalbooks.htm

http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digital...lity_db004.htm
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:40 PM
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Thanks for the reply, I can check that out. I always kind of thought the history the LDS put out was weird, if they'd had the kind of civilization on this continent that was dictated in the book, then where are/were the ruins?
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:52 AM
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Thanks for the reply, I can check that out. I always kind of thought the history the LDS put out was weird, if they'd had the kind of civilization on this continent that was dictated in the book, then where are/were the ruins?
Kay -- you just opened a huge box of worms, there.


I cite the Tanners and all. And, not being raised LDS, the basic tenets of their faith seem very weird to me. (To quote a famous physicist, who was referring to something completely different, reading LDS the LDS view of the Universe is like walking down a familiar street and finding all the houses have been painted purple. Everything is there, but very different.)

I have lived among the LDS in upstate New York and in Utah, attended their services and their social functions, helped them move and clean. I was even Best Man at an LDS wedding*. But I recognize that arguing about such basics with them is not a good idea, and might cost you friends.

Both they and I recognized that we had different fundamental beliefs, and that's that. I encourage learning about this, but if you want to pursue these questions, you will find that they have been asked often enough that there are regular responses to them. You can find them on the internet, if you look.



*not a Temple wedding, obviously. But if you lived far enough from a Temple, you were able to get married (although not "sealed") in other venues, such as the Bishop's house. others
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:58 AM
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I was raised LDs and also lived among the LDS in upstate New York and in Utah. I can only speak of things before the mid 1980s. Beyond that is second hand information.
The Mormonism - Shadow or Reality book was what got me started questioning. (long story). I also recommend that one.
There aren't any ruins that show places and people in the Book of Mormon. I had heard that the purpose is so that people use faith rather than proof.
There was a movie (don't know if they are still using it) called Ancient America Speaks. The purpose is to show archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. It has things like:
A box that was found in Iran that is similar to a box described in the Book of Mormon (in the Americas)
There was something that was found that looks like it could be a baptismal font. Then again the swimming pool in my backyard could be one too.
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