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Old 03-21-2020, 08:47 PM
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I pit Robbie Roberston of The Band


There was a thread about the new documentary "Once Were Brothers- Robbie Robertson and the Band", but I can't find it.

What the fuck? Robbie Roberson AND the band. The Band was the band, they weren't your fucking band. I'm listening to The Band now, inspiration for this post. Up on Cripple Creek, The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down, The Weight, It Makes No Difference, The Weight, many more, I hear Rick and Levon and Richard singing.I don't hear Robbie. And I don't hear any prominent guitar playing, mediocre as his playing always was. Not great, not bad.

OK, he wrote the songs, or at least most of them Good on you, Robbie, and I do respect you for that. But you have spent decades trying to pretend that all those guys were just you're backing band. And you broke up The Band, you wanted to end it, Garth and Rick and Levon and Richard wanted to continue on.

You are the very definiton of a self-important rock star. I love you, but fuck you.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:04 AM
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...all those guys were just you're backing band.
So, a band backing up part of another of the Band's band?

wait...

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Old 03-22-2020, 03:11 AM
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I haven't seen the documentary in question but is it possible you're misinterpreting the title? The title could mean it's about the relationship between Robertson and the other members of the band. Just like you might speak of the relationship between John Lennon and the Beatles or between Roger Waters and Pink Floyd.
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:14 AM
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You are the very definiton of a self-important rock star.
Mike Love says "hold my beer".
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:00 AM
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Mike Love says "hold my beer".
Funny you should say that. This showed up on one of my favourite YouTube channels yesterday.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:23 AM
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Little Nemo @3:. “John Lennon and the Beatles.” I like the sound of that. I also like the idea of Sir Paul shitting his breeches with rage.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:42 AM
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Mike Love says "hold my beer".
Robbie is more like Brian Wilson than Mike Love.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:54 AM
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You are the very definiton of a self-important rock star.
You're gonna get a sternly worded letter from Bono's lawyer.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:36 PM
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Funny you should say that. This showed up on one of my favourite YouTube channels yesterday.
Oh.

Sorry - I always thought Kokomo was by ELO.

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Old 03-22-2020, 02:04 PM
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I haven't seen the documentary in question but is it possible you're misinterpreting the title? The title could mean it's about the relationship between Robertson and the other members of the band.
^^That. The source for this documentary is Robertson's memoir.
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:57 PM
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I pit Robbie Robertson of The Band

You don't capitalize "the". The title of the documentary got it right.

It's the Band, the Beatles, the Who, the Miles Davis Quintet, the The, and the Group That Hasn't Been Named Yet.

(This is bound to spark an argument between Correct People and illiterates, and it will be more interesting than the one about Robbie Robertson, good or bad?)
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Old 03-22-2020, 06:22 PM
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the The
::all sing-songy::

hmmmmmmmm, I dun-no-o-oooo.....
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:07 PM
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[...]And I don't hear any prominent guitar playing, mediocre as his playing always was. Not great, not bad.

OK, he wrote the songs, or at least most of them Good on you, Robbie, and I do respect you for that. But you have spent decades trying to pretend that all those guys were just you're backing band. And you broke up The Band, you wanted to end it, Garth and Rick and Levon and Richard wanted to continue on.
[...]
As others have mentioned, you’re misinterpreting the title. And can I get a cite that Robertson has spent decades pretending that the other guys were just his backing band?

I’d put Robertson’s guitar playing well above mediocre/average. When I watch Last Waltz the guitar is a consistent joy for me — along with a lot of other things. (Garth’s fills, Rick and Levon’s singing, Levon’s drumming.) Here’s a link to It Makes No Difference; I think Robbie shines, altho Rick is amazing and Garth’s sax is the perfect finish.

I’ve read Levon’s book, and his tirades against Robertson are messy and often silly. And for all the Band’s musical greatness, it’s really the songs that give them their place in history. Robertson didn’t try to prevent the other guys from performing as the Band, AFAIK, or from releasing albums as the Band.

There’s also the issue of heroin and alcohol addiction among Rick, Richard, and Levon that probably motivated Robertson to move on out. Check out Northern Lights’ lead cut, Forbidden Fruit, for general details. Really though, I feel the Band had a short heyday and after a few glowing albums the greatness was gone.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:16 PM
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(This is bound to spark an argument between Correct People and illiterates, and it will be more interesting than the one about Robbie Robertson, good or bad?)
Yes, it, will, and you are in The Illiterates.

Just because you lay down the gauntlet, as it were, doesn't mean you are correct.

The name of the band is The Beatles.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:57 PM
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Yes, it, will, and you are in The Illiterates.

Just because you lay down the gauntlet, as it were, doesn't mean you are correct.

The name of the band is The Beatles.
The name of the band is the Beatles.

But to confuse matters they did release an album called The Beatles.
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:18 PM
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Yes, it, will, and you are in The Illiterates.

Just because you lay down the gauntlet, as it were, doesn't mean you are correct.

The name of the band is The Beatles.
Imagine that record stores are still a thing, and you're in one.

Would the Beatles records be alphabetized under B or T?
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:48 PM
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Imagine that record stores are still a thing, and you're in one.

Would the Beatles records be alphabetized under B or T?
The Wrath of Khan, The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and The Caine Mutiny are filed under W, S and C, but the definite articles are all capitalized nevertheless.

The Beatles, The Who and the Eagles are filed under B, W and E, but two take a capitalized definite article.

Next question.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 03-22-2020 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:48 PM
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Excellent! I have successfully deflected the thread - Robbie thanks you all.

"The" in titles is capitalized. In proper names, it isn't. You can look that up, but please don't cite Wikipedia or fan sites as authoritative.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:30 PM
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The Wrath of Khan is filed under S.
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM
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Isn't anybody going to post a lame-ass "band name!" joke?
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:27 PM
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This is really more Cafe Society than Pit material, harsh language notwithstanding.
  #22  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:46 PM
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As others have mentioned, you’re misinterpreting the title. And can I get a cite that Robertson has spent decades pretending that the other guys were just his backing band?

I’d put Robertson’s guitar playing well above mediocre/average. When I watch Last Waltz the guitar is a consistent joy for me — along with a lot of other things. (Garth’s fills, Rick and Levon’s singing, Levon’s drumming.) Here’s a link to It Makes No Difference; I think Robbie shines, altho Rick is amazing and Garth’s sax is the perfect finish
Agreed. When Clapton is playing on The Last Waltz, just he’s going into his solo, his guitar strap breaks and he calls out “Rob”. Robertson seamlessly switches from rhythm to lead and blazes through the solo, then just as easily switches back when Clapton is ready. Whatever his issues with his band mates (and that appears a two way street), the man is far from mediocre on guitar. It is acknowledged that his vocals aren’t up to the level of the rest and frequently his mic would be turned off. But also give him credit for being the driving force behind that great movie getting made.

Last edited by Jack Burden; 03-24-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 10:20 PM
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Whatever bad blood was spilled after their break up, there can't be any doubt that the five guys of the Crackers/Hawks/Band were one of the best and most of all most original combinations of musicians a rhythm and blues or rock'n'roll band ever had. Of course that includes the lead guitar player and major songwriter. According to Bob Dylan, Robbie Robertson was a mathematical guitar genius, and like in all apparently outrageous statements by Dylan from the time, there's a lot of truth in it.
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Old 03-24-2020, 10:31 PM
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Agreed. When Clapton is playing on The Last Waltz, just he’s going into his solo, his guitar strap breaks and he calls out “Rob”. Robertson seamlessly switches from rhythm to lead and blazes through the solo, then just as easily switches back when Clapton is ready. Whatever his issues with his band mates (and that appears a two way street), the man is far from mediocre on guitar.
Can be seen here. Clapton definitely outplays him IMHO - he's considerably more fluid. But then you'd kind of expect him to, it's sorta what he was known for . In context Robertson absolutely holds up just fine. He wasn't a guitar hero per se, but he was certainly a big step up from mediocre.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 03-24-2020 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 10:55 PM
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Can be seen here. Clapton definitely outplays him IMHO - he's considerably more fluid. But then you'd kind of expect him to, it's sorta what he was known for . In context Robertson absolutely holds up just fine. He wasn't a guitar hero per se, but he was certainly a big step up from mediocre.
Eric Clapton has faster fingers and plays more fluently, but Robbie accentuates each note more and is one of the very few guitar players who has his own distinct tone, even more so than Clapton who's technically better. The only one I know who comes close to his tone and playing is John Platania, and it's no great miracle that Van Morrison, who was an early cohort of the Band, often worked successfully with Platania.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:52 AM
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The only one I know who comes close to his tone and playing is John Platania, and it's no great miracle that Van Morrison, who was an early cohort of the Band, often worked successfully with Platania.
Interesting comparison because I really love the earlier Morrison albums in particular, but out of all of that stable of musicians I never could muster up much love for Platania. Especially on the live It's Too Late to Stop Now, where he really kinda underwhelmed me.

Horse for courses, naturally.

ETA: Oh and I disagree about Clapton not having a distinct tone. One might argue he has had more than one, but 1970/80's's Clapton in particular always sounds instantly like 1970's/80's Clapton to me. However he had that black strat dialed in, it was instantly recognizable.

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Old 03-25-2020, 01:31 PM
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Can be seen here. Clapton definitely outplays him IMHO - he's considerably more fluid. But then you'd kind of expect him to, it's sorta what he was known for . In context Robertson absolutely holds up just fine. He wasn't a guitar hero per se, but he was certainly a big step up from mediocre.
My favorite moment of the documentary was Clapton telling the story of how he went to Woodstock, working up the courage to ask if he could join the Band..."maybe you could use another rhythm guitar?" High praise.

I knew little about The Band going in, other than a passing acquaintance with their greatest hits. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it inspired me to watch The Last Waltz. But it's very much Robertson's story, with no attempt at multiple viewpoints (mostly, because the others have all passed)...although it's noteworthy that Garth Wilson is still here and didn't participate.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatchie View Post
I pit Robbie Robertson of The Band

You don't capitalize "the". The title of the documentary got it right.

It's the Band, the Beatles, the Who, the Miles Davis Quintet, the The, and the Group That Hasn't Been Named Yet.

(This is bound to spark an argument between Correct People and illiterates, and it will be more interesting than the one about Robbie Robertson, good or bad?)
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Yes, it, will, and you are in The Illiterates.

Just because you lay down the gauntlet, as it were, doesn't mean you are correct.

The name of the band is The Beatles.
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
The Wrath of Khan, The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and The Caine Mutiny are filed under W, S and C, but the definite articles are all capitalized nevertheless.

The Beatles, The Who and the Eagles are filed under B, W and E, but two take a capitalized definite article.

Next question.
Just to head it off before it comes up: the name of the band is Stray Cats, no The and no the.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:21 PM
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Just to head it off before it comes up: the name of the band is Stray Cats, no The and no the.
And not to forget, The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:28 PM
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Interesting comparison because I really love the earlier Morrison albums in particular, but out of all of that stable of musicians I never could muster up much love for Platania. Especially on the live It's Too Late to Stop Now, where he really kinda underwhelmed me.

Horse for courses, naturally.

ETA: Oh and I disagree about Clapton not having a distinct tone. One might argue he has had more than one, but 1970/80's's Clapton in particular always sounds instantly like 1970's/80's Clapton to me. However he had that black strat dialed in, it was instantly recognizable.
I didn't mean that Clapton doesn't have his own tone, but that Robbie's is even more distinct than Clapton's. When I hear Clapton, I also hear his influences, especially the three Kings of the Blues (BB, Albert and Freddie), but Robbie's sound is so unique that I don't know where it comes from. I don't know any guitarist who had a similar sound before him, like in Clapton's case.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:39 AM
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I realize the OP was about Robbie Robertson's relationship to the Band, so this is just a slight hijack, especially considering a good portion of this thread is arguing whether or not you capitalize the "the" in band names

Anyway, I just wanted to say I've enjoyed a lot of his solo career after the Band. I've listened to 'Storyville' many times over the years, usually late at night with a couple beverages. I know, his style is kind of melodramatic and overwrought...some may even call it "cheesy", but it's enjoyable listening for me. And 'Music for the Native Americans', I haven't listened to it in awhile so it may not hold up as well, but at the time it came out I enjoyed not only the music itself but the production values. It was really fun listening with good speakers or a good pair of headphones. Hmm, think I may play some today while working in my home office...

Last edited by solost; 03-26-2020 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:17 PM
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Robbie was in a band with 3 junkies. They were all great and worthy musicians, but no one knows what it's like to wrangle that situation to maintain a working band out of it. I assume that he couldn't, and I can't blame him.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:39 PM
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But it's very much Robertson's story, with no attempt at multiple viewpoints (mostly, because the others have all passed)...although it's noteworthy that Garth Wilson is still here and didn't participate.
Garth Hudson. It’s not impossible to find interviews with Garth but he certainly doesn’t do many. It would be truly noteworthy if he did participate. It’s not the type of thing I would see him doing. He was always content to let the others speak.

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Anyway, I just wanted to say I've enjoyed a lot of his solo career after the Band. I've listened to 'Storyville' many times over the years, usually late at night with a couple beverages. I know, his style is kind of melodramatic and overwrought...some may even call it "cheesy", but it's enjoyable listening for me. And 'Music for the Native Americans', I haven't listened to it in awhile so it may not hold up as well, but at the time it came out I enjoyed not only the music itself but the production values. It was really fun listening with good speakers or a good pair of headphones. Hmm, think I may play some today while working in my home office...
His self titled first solo album is still maybe my favorite album of the 80s. I enjoy it as much now as I did then.

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Robbie was in a band with 3 junkies. They were all great and worthy musicians, but no one knows what it's like to wrangle that situation to maintain a working band out of it. I assume that he couldn't, and I can't blame him.
You can see it in the Last Waltz. He’s trying to be serious and give answers that will help shape the movie. The others are fucked up (drunk rather than high I suspect though maybe both). And that’s the footage Scorcese could use. And Garth is quietly being a genius in the background.
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