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  #51  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
IF we had competent leadership something like that statement could be acceptable. Public health actions SHOULD be adjusted based on changing information. Ramp up or down in response to quality data assuming you have it and qualified experts are analyzing it and advising on the nationally coordinated adjustments.

Unfortunately that is not what we have.
True. And he’s right that in theory we could take actions in the name of a cure that would be worse than the disease. That’s why we’ve accepted the increased risk caused by keeping grocery stores and pharmacies and the businesses that supply them open, because the likely outcome of shutting down the food supply chain WOULD be worse than the disease.

But Trump wont be capable of striking the proper balance because still doesn’t understand the dynamics of exponential growth and he’s too stupid to grasp it. I could probably negotiate a good deal with him by offering to work for a dollar the first day if he doubled my pay every day for a month.

HE JUST DOESN’T GET IT.

I called this a few days ago, even though I’m not going to hunt down the post. It was based on seeing Pence constantly showing that 15 Days to Slow The Spread pamphlet. He didn’t talk about it that much but he always held it in camera view.
  #52  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:17 PM
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I think he's pissed off that he has to stand behind a podium every day and pretend to be on top of this, instead of out playing golf.
I think his rallies are what he really misses, all those adoring crowds of Trumpists who believe he's wonderful. Someone pointed out the other day that the daily pressers started up just after the rallies had to be canceled.
  #53  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:22 PM
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Young folks typically hate the idea of getting old. Trump has a plan for that.
  #54  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:23 PM
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I think he's pissed off that he has to stand behind a podium every day and pretend to be on top of this, instead of out playing golf.
Is this the most days in a row that he has spent in the White House?
  #55  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:25 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/polit...ing/index.html

Trump is tired of social isolation.

He seems to think the stock market is a better indicator of his chances for re-election than the welfare of Americans during a deadly virus outbreak.
  #56  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:38 PM
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I think he's pissed off that he has to stand behind a podium every day and pretend to be on top of this, instead of out playing golf.
It has been 2 weeks since he played....
  #57  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:46 PM
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From the right wing Facebook posts I've seen, the faithful have not abandoned their Dear Leader. One bemoaned that the money that Democrats spent on impeachment should have been spent on helping Americans. That drew a comment that she stole the money from Social Security to pay for impeachment. Another meme said that the drunken bitch who tore up the State of the Union Address refused to aid Americans. Nice and subtle.

The base doesn't care what he says or what he does. He could very well say in 15 days "Fuck it, crisis is over, everybody get back to work. If people die, tough titties. We have to get the stock market back up" The base would happily lap it up just as fast as they would lap it up if he took a dump in their kitchen.

Now poor little Mitch is whining that the Democrats wouldn't swallow his bill that would have given the administration $500 billion to distribute to corporations as it sees fit with no oversight. Seriously, these clowns are running the circus.
  #58  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:56 PM
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It has been 2 weeks since he played....
Jeez, no wonder he's getting so antsy.
  #59  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:59 PM
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That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
It sounds like you have better information than I do. Would you care to share it?
  #60  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:02 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/polit...ing/index.html

Trump is tired of social isolation.

He seems to think the stock market is a better indicator of his chances for re-election than the welfare of Americans during a deadly virus outbreak.
What's happening here is obvious. Trump doesn't want to focus on the crisis any more. His attention span is less than that of my 3 year old grandson. Everyday he has to stand up there and say something, and he's getting tired of it. This is the one agenda he can't control. He can't turn coverage to anything else.

If he tells everyone they can come out now he can turn his attention to something else - that what he must be thinking. We all knew he was not up to the job but this is proving it.

The best thing Trump could do for the country at this point is to fall over dead of a stroke or heart attack. Pence may be an asshole, but he can focus on something for more than a week. Or two days.
  #61  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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Jeez, no wonder he's getting so antsy.
It’s probably more about not getting to do his rallies. He seems to feed off those. The more he has to appear sober and somber and try to follow a script or speak in measured tones, the more he itches to just start on rants about “nasty” reporters and crazy Democrats and whatever. It has to come out or he’ll lose his last marble.
  #62  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:15 PM
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That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
104 posts over 15 years and you waste it on this shit?
  #63  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:18 PM
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104 posts over 15 years and you waste it on this shit?
SayTwo should change his name to SayNothing.

Forgot to add, "Har! Har!"

Last edited by asahi; 03-23-2020 at 02:18 PM.
  #64  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:19 PM
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IF we had competent leadership something like that statement could be acceptable. Public health actions SHOULD be adjusted based on changing information. Ramp up or down in response to quality data assuming you have it and qualified experts are analyzing it and advising on the nationally coordinated adjustments.

Unfortunately that is not what we have.
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You can dislike the messenger all you want, and you can reasonably disagree on what the implications of such an approach would be, but it's hard to objectively argue against the message itself. Something about a house and a mouse, I once heard...
Your post is refuted by the post right before yours. It's not that I don't like the messenger, I don't trust the messenger. He's said innumerable stupid things about this issue already. From claiming that it would be over in a flash, that it was overblown by his political opponents, that he's done a great job of leading us... I don't believe he is capable of weighing the impact of his decisions to make a reasoned choice.

He's just going to pick something, he's not REALLY going to understand the implications, so this "message" is meaningless because it depends on having an understanding of the scope of the COVID pandemic and the far reaching implications of social distancing, and he doesn't.
  #65  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:37 PM
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The second part isn't bad. It's basically what every other world leader has been saying - we take measures now, we reassess whether to continue those measures, later. (Since they're based on scientific recommendations, the answer is likely going to be 'yes, we will', at least for the next several months.)

The problem is the first line. It tells us that he's biased against whatever helps contain the outbreak (ie: the cure), if it's inconvenient.

Last edited by Kamino Neko; 03-23-2020 at 02:38 PM. Reason: accidentally a word.
  #66  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:49 PM
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What's happening here is obvious. Trump doesn't want to focus on the crisis any more. His attention span is less than that of my 3 year old grandson. Everyday he has to stand up there and say something, and he's getting tired of it. This is the one agenda he can't control. He can't turn coverage to anything else.
My youngest daughter keeps getting tired of hearing about “the virus” (that’s what she calls it) and wants to be able to go to parks and hang out with friends. But she’s 5 years old so she has an excuse.
  #67  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:58 PM
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I think he's pissed off that he has to stand behind a podium every day and pretend to be on top of this, instead of out playing golf.
If only he had some kind of assistant that could take his place at that podium, maybe on a regular schedule, say, every day, and inform the press corps of the latest news and developments from the White House. That assistant could also answer questions, even. Maybe give him or her some important-sounding title, like Press Secretary or something. Yeah, you're right, that's just crazy talk on my part. Mea culpa, ever'body.
  #68  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:20 PM
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I think his rallies are what he really misses, all those adoring crowds of Trumpists who believe he's wonderful. Someone pointed out the other day that the daily pressers started up just after the rallies had to be canceled.
I was thinking the the day that somebody ought to show him the clip of LBJ saying, "I shall not seek, and I will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your President," pointing out how high his approval rating rose after the announcement and then suggesting he could then run for president again in January.

That way he could do what he loves best -- speaking at rallies in front of his fan base -- and avoid doing what he hated, actually being President. He would piss and moan about how the Deep State robbed him of his legacy, the MAGAts would eat it up with a spoon, and the rest of us could get on with our lives. He could become the Harold Stassen for the 21st century.

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He seems to think the stock market is a better indicator of his chances for re-election than the welfare of Americans during a deadly virus outbreak.
He's not entirely wrong. "500,000 dead but my 401K's doing great!"
  #69  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:22 PM
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if it looks like he might lose to Biden I think the party will find a way to get rid of him
  #70  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:23 PM
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If only he had some kind of assistant that could take his place at that podium, maybe on a regular schedule, say, every day, and inform the press corps of the latest news and developments from the White House. That assistant could also answer questions, even. Maybe give him or her some important-sounding title, like Press Secretary or something. Yeah, you're right, that's just crazy talk on my part. Mea culpa, ever'body.
Perhaps they could combine this job with the Maytag Repairman, they're equally busy (if you believe the old Maytag ads).

It's clear that this has exceeded Donald's attention span. I predict in two weeks it's going to be "States, you're on your own!"
  #71  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:44 PM
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It’s probably more about not getting to do his rallies. He seems to feed off those. The more he has to appear sober and somber and try to follow a script or speak in measured tones, the more he itches to just start on rants about “nasty” reporters and crazy Democrats and whatever. It has to come out or he’ll lose his last marble.
The rallies are also used by his campaign to develop mailing lists and solicit donations. The demand for secret payouts to corporations is largely about funneling that money back into his campaign.

He’s a TV personality. He thinks in terms of episodes and story lines. This one isn’t working out for him, he needs to move on to the next one.

This crisis happened at one of the worst times possible for me, but the economy will recover. And the Democrats should stand their ground. Remember the Republicans deliberately held back the stimulus needed for full recovery from the 2008 crisis for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS. 6 months is nothing in comparison.
  #72  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:53 PM
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It's clear that this has exceeded Donald's attention span. I predict in two weeks it's going to be "States, you're on your own!"
They already are and the orange juvenile laughs about it!
  #73  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:54 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/polit...ing/index.html

Trump is tired of social isolation.

He seems to think the stock market is a better indicator of his chances for re-election than the welfare of Americans during a deadly virus outbreak.
He's not wrong. Dead people can't vote!*

*Except Democrats, apparently.
  #74  
Old 03-23-2020, 03:56 PM
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if it looks like he might lose to Biden I think the party will find a way to get rid of him
Obviously he could, the party knows this. It’s whether or not they think he likely will, and then it’s a question about whether a swap now for a new candidate that hasn’t campaigned would do better than an incumbent. I think it’s too late in the process for them to swap horses with any chance of success and they know it.

Also you can’t rely on polls. According to polls, Hillary should have won last election (and I mean electoral college not just popular vote) and she didn’t. The GOP will surely have that in mind as well.

I think there’s a zero chance of the Republicans getting skittish and swapping out their candidate. If you want Trump out then he’s going to have to be voted out. I have hope he will be.

Last edited by Atamasama; 03-23-2020 at 03:56 PM.
  #75  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:09 PM
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What's happening here is obvious. Trump doesn't want to focus on the crisis any more. His attention span is less than that of my 3 year old grandson. Everyday he has to stand up there and say something, and he's getting tired of it. This is the one agenda he can't control. He can't turn coverage to anything else.

If he tells everyone they can come out now he can turn his attention to something else - that what he must be thinking. We all knew he was not up to the job but this is proving it.

The best thing Trump could do for the country at this point is to fall over dead of a stroke or heart attack. Pence may be an asshole, but he can focus on something for more than a week. Or two days.
Think positive! Trump could fall over dead of gravy crushing Pence.
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  #76  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:12 PM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?

I guess if the country doesn't kiss his butt enough in the next two weeks, he'll make a decision to kill us all. Although he's pretty much been doing that anyway so how can we tell the difference?
He means that he's going to tell everyone to forget saving grandma, the stock market is more important, "get back to work y'all lazy bums".

Trump needs the economy to be good, to win his re-election.

Of course, his core voting base is older so he seems to be forgetting the flip side of the coin.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 03-23-2020 at 04:12 PM.
  #77  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:28 PM
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I expect we will end up with the worst of both options: both an out-of-control pandemic and a horrible economy.

Last edited by PastTense; 03-23-2020 at 04:29 PM.
  #78  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:39 PM
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I expect we will end up with the worst of both options: both an out-of-control pandemic and a horrible economy.
That's OK, as long as Fox News (and by extension Trump) find someone else to blame. That's what's important - who to blame. Right after "how do we make a profit from this?"
  #79  
Old 03-23-2020, 04:40 PM
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The worst thing about all this is something asahi noted above. As bad as this is and is going to get, a potential silver lining would be the American people having an epiphany about their demagogue-loving, science-undermining, populism-run-amok ways and consciously deciding to expect more from themselves and their country going forward. But there is no realistic prospect of that happening. People will continue to cast blame in the wrong direction even as the president sells out their communities, their livelihoods and their very lives themselves.
  #80  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:09 PM
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It's like he doesn't even realise he's a near-80-year-old in bad shape
He needs to show us how he's fixed the problem by going to a treatment center and giving hugs to all the patients.
  #81  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:12 PM
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Starting to think all that "Death Panel" talk in 2009 was disingenuous.
  #82  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:34 PM
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Is there an emergency measure someone can invoke that relieves the president of his duties for abandoned recklessness endangering hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives? Like Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny," that on a lesser scale? The 2016 voters are now stewing in their own soup.
God help my liberal, democracy-loving soul, I started wondering today if a military coup would be all that bad.
  #83  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:38 PM
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Think positive! Trump could fall over dead of gravy crushing Pence.
And Bill Barr, too??
  #84  
Old 03-23-2020, 05:38 PM
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The worst thing about all this is something asahi noted above. As bad as this is and is going to get, a potential silver lining would be the American people having an epiphany about their demagogue-loving, science-undermining, populism-run-amok ways and consciously deciding to expect more from themselves and their country going forward. But there is no realistic prospect of that happening. People will continue to cast blame in the wrong direction even as the president sells out their communities, their livelihoods and their very lives themselves.
Unlikely.

God has, by many peoples' reckoning, killed billions through war, famine, murder, etc. or having allowed those things to happen.

If things are bad, God will save you. If things are good, God is to thank for it. There is no version where bad can be attributed.

There's liable to be a strong correlation between the 40% of the nation who think that the universe is 10,000 years old and support for Donald Trump. And, likewise, for people who are very strong in thinking in the above terms.

If things are bad, Trump will save you. If things are good, Trump is to thank for it.
  #85  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:21 PM
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Interesting to note that Fauci is not at the "press conference" where Trump is talking about opening the country back up again.

I'm unclear on why we still need a multi trillion dollar stimulus package if we are opening everything back up again though.
  #86  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:38 PM
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The "press conference" was like a tableau of ghastly. Watching the support team trying to keep it off their faces was comical -- or it would have been if the subject matter weren't so serious.

I can't listen to Trump talking but I was reading captions... did he actually say the death rate would be, figure, 50,000, and that's "not so bad"??? Even William Barr couldn't keep the shock off his face.

I guess they decided to stop having the daily propaganda hour during times when the stock market is open. No doubt the juxtaposition of the dropping Dow simultaneous to the Orange One flapping his lips pissed him off.

And I agree that Dr. Fauci's absence is extremely troubling. We could see it coming, though.
  #87  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:40 PM
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So corporations will be able to donate to trump2020, of course.
(Replying to Fiveyearlurker)

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-23-2020 at 06:41 PM.
  #88  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:54 PM
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Of course Trump says this kind of shit. He's in the pockets of Big Mortuary.
  #89  
Old 03-23-2020, 06:58 PM
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And Bill Barr, too??
[Billie Burke voice] Yes, Dorothy, and Bill Barr, too![/BB voice]*




*Millennials substitute Kristin Chenowith.
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  #90  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:05 PM
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In today's presser, Trump was seriously trying to compare the situation in the US to the one in Italy, saying that compared to Italy we have much less infection and way fewer deaths. He of course neglected to say that Italy's population of 60 million people is crammed into a country the size of Arizona, for a population density of about 532 per square mile, while the US has 327 million people, penciling out to about 92 per square mile. Of course the infection rate will be lower and slower (for now). I don't believe for a second that he hasn't been briefed on this; he's just lying by omission.
  #91  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:20 PM
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In today's presser, Trump was seriously trying to compare the situation in the US to the one in Italy, saying that compared to Italy we have much less infection and way fewer deaths. He of course neglected to say that Italy's population of 60 million people is crammed into a country the size of Arizona, for a population density of about 532 per square mile, while the US has 327 million people, penciling out to about 92 per square mile. Of course the infection rate will be lower and slower (for now). I don't believe for a second that he hasn't been briefed on this; he's just lying by omission.
Oh, he was briefed. He just didn't understand a word. Population density? Square miles? Miles are long, not square. Too complicated.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:45 PM
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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this.

He advocated widespread use of medication that is not yet thoroughly tested, with side effects that could well be worse than the disease, and is tweeting this?!
Donald Trump has no plan. He never really has a plan; he has a general idea for how he should act, which worked for him in limited arenas like being a conman, but in a big, complicated problem he is just reacting literally by the minute. Trump understands nothing at all about what's happening.

So his affinity to the malaria drug could end on Thursday. His hinting that they might lift lockdown restrictions on March 30 might be forgotten by 10 PM tonight, or might change five times between now and March 30. All that matters to Trump is

1. Does it make money for me?
2. Does it make people impressed with me?

That's it. If you told Trump that there was a pandemic strategy that would kill twenty million Americans, but that he would make money and get re-elected, he would absolutely choose that over a strategy that killed no one and caused him to lose the election. I am not exaggerating by even a little bit. He himself could not formulate that strategy, or any real strategy, but he'd choose to kill his countrymen for his own benefit every single time.

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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker
I'm unclear on why we still need a multi trillion dollar stimulus package if we are opening everything back up again though.
So rich people can loot the treasury. The moment this started getting bad, the rich people were getting in line to steal as much as they could. No fucking wonder socialism is back in vogue. If the state will not deliver justice, the mob will.
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  #93  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:47 PM
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If the state will not deliver justice, the mob will.
Aye.
  #94  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:11 PM
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I know I'm going to catch fire and brimstone for this but...I sort of agree with Trump. He's still a moron and he only tweeted this because he has (likely) lost million$ in the markets but I am concerned that we are overreacting. We've got posts like this:

Quote:
"Everyone dies" is a lot worse that "the made-up way we trade goods and services isn't functioning as well as we'd like", IMO. YMMV.
C'mon, not everyone is going to die. I know it's hyperbole but even still it's over the top.

We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion. People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu and we already know that the mortality rate of COVID is not the same.

My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu. Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.

Just because Trump says something doesn't mean we have to fly in the opposite direction.
  #95  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:25 PM
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To be fair, Trump isn’t the only one getting antsy with the economic situation: https://twitter.com/AntPascaleNY1/st...891576321?s=20
  #96  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:28 PM
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I think learning that our precautions were an overreaction is the ideal outcome to the pandemic. I do hope and expect that in a year or so we’ll talk about how crazy everything was and look at pronouncements of doom through the lens of irony.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be careful now. I’m heartened by the news out of Wuhan that they are no longer seeing new homegrown infections; recently new cases are being reported only from visitors to the area. But it took them time and effort to get to that point.
  #97  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
I can't listen to Trump talking but I was reading captions... did he actually say the death rate would be, figure, 50,000, and that's "not so bad"??? Even William Barr couldn't keep the shock off his face.
I've not been able to find a video clip of this, nor have I seen it mentioned at the AP; if someone comes across either would you please post a link here? Thanks.

(I stopped listening to the briefings; they are too frustrating and too slow to dole out information amidst the propaganda.)
  #98  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
C'mon, not everyone is going to die. I know it's hyperbole but even still it's over the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion.
Bullshit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu
Bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu.
You're clearly a fucking moron. That's your fear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.
Then why did he declare a state of emergency? Why did he close borders?

Take your uninformed, stupid-ass opinions, your partisan opinions, and swallow them whole.

Then go volunteer at a hospital without PPE, if you think it isn't a big deal.

You won't.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-23-2020 at 09:40 PM.
  #99  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:54 PM
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Ship? What ship? There is no ship to steer. Trump scuttled it the moment he cast a shadow on the White House lawn. That was the first priority.
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  #100  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
Yes, the 25th amendment to the Constitution has just such a procedure. Unfortunately, it requires the VP and the cabinet members to initiate the process and I don't see that happening unless Trump becomes physically disabled to the point where he can't even talk.
Yeah, I'm aware of the 25th Amendment, but that's not what I was talking about, because it's a process and might take too long, and, as you say, requires action from his own party members. That will never happen. I was more wondering about exigent circumstances, like hundreds of thousands of lives are imminently in danger due to the president's reckless actions, which would allow someone to walk into the oval office tomorrow and say to the president, "Please come with us, sir." My inquiry was pretty much in jest.
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