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  #101  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
Donald Trump has no plan. All that matters to Trump is

1. Does it make money for me?
2. Does it make people impressed with me?

That's it.
This is what I've been saying over and over for the past three years, and it hasn't changed with a pandemic.

However, there is another matter for Trump that is tangential to #2: How can he keep the economy from tanking, and if he can't, how can he spin it so that he can claim it's not his fault? Because he knows his re-election depends on that.

If the economy gets so bad that no one will believe his bullshit, then he's doomed, so right now he's freaking out.
  #102  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:21 PM
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If Trump declares all is good in 7-8 days (or 15 days) I hope all Governors give him a hearty STFU!

My Gov. (Iowa, Gov. Kim Reynolds, (R)) probably won't. We "only" have a population of 3 million and are spread out... other than our high density cities. And other than those of us who live in the sticks have to go into the cities to work or shop. Thankfully, the schools are closed. Bars, restaurants, gathering places. But that's about as far as she has went. Money over people.
  #103  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:32 PM
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People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Bullshit.
No, that one's spot on. Those people are idiots for making the comparison but they are making it.
  #104  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mistymage View Post
If Trump declares all is good in 7-8 days (or 15 days) I hope all Governors give him a hearty STFU!
I expect Cuomo will. Probably also others.

Trump can refuse to aid the governors. But I don't think he can override them.
  #105  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:51 PM
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From today's transcript:


"The whole concept is death is terrible!"


Is this the first time someone actually explained death to him?
  #106  
Old 03-23-2020, 11:32 PM
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Washington State Jay Inslee will give trump the finger.

One epidemiologist explained 2% death rate like the Spanish Flu in these terms: Everyone knew someone who died from the Spanish Flu. A co-worker, a neighbor or a grand parent. That's how pervasive 2% death rate is.
  #107  
Old 03-23-2020, 11:35 PM
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Don't forget, all those criminal and legal actions against trump "because you can't indict a sitting president" goes away the minute he loses the election. And not just trump but likely his family as well. I'm not sayin' its a foregone conclusion, but I'll eat my hat if forensic accountants are unable to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that trump and trump inc have been laundering serious money for the Russians for at least a decade. I look forward to seeing that day in court.
  #108  
Old 03-23-2020, 11:51 PM
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A million Americans are going to die because the center of the country is too stupid to understand that right wing media is hyperbolic dipshittery.

And after all this, with an extra five or six trillion dollars of debt, they're going to blame the state of the economy on the Dem who has to put it back together. And the center of the country will hate that Dem.

It's downright bleak.
  #109  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Alley Dweller View Post
Fox News has the ability to manipulate the Republican base. I'm sure you've seen those interviews of people standing in line to get into Trump rallies: They get their news exclusively from Fox and say things similar to "thank goodness we have one news channel that tells it like it is and not that lame-stream media."

He knows he has to follow their lead because they are leading the voters that will keep him in power.
Trump puts the "rob" in Ouroboros.
  #110  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:27 AM
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From today's transcript:


"The whole concept is death is terrible!"


Is this the first time someone actually explained death to him?
Up to now, he believed his parents and brother moved to a nice farm upstate and developed it into condos.
  #111  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:27 AM
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They probably did and just had their people tell Trump they were dead.
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  #112  
Old 03-24-2020, 02:50 AM
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We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion. People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu and we already know that the mortality rate of COVID is not the same.
How do you know that?

Actual experts - people who have medical degrees and spent a lifetime working in public health and related fields - will not commit to a definitive mortality rate for covid. On what do YOU base your conclusion and what are your credentials for making that determination?

Also, there's a difference between the mortality rate for a disease when the healthcare system is intact and when it's overwhelmed.

First, we saw Italy's hospitals overrun, with gurneys lining the hallways gasping desperately for breath, dying because there weren't enough respirators to go around. Now we have video of patients lying not in beds but on the floors of Spanish hospitals because their system is overwhelmed.

It's not that it's possible for that to happen here, the way we are going it WILL happen here.

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My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu. Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.
Ha! I think it far more likely that even before this is over people will be whining "why weren't we TOLD?!?" You were. But you didn't believe the warnings and didn't take it seriously.

Again - actual experts - people who have medical degrees and spent a lifetime working in public health and related fields - are estimating this has 10 times the death rate of regular flu (or five times, or twenty times). On what do you base YOUR conclusions, and what are your credentials for saying so?
  #113  
Old 03-24-2020, 03:00 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
It means Trump considers this a trial period. After two weeks of kicking the tires and taking it for a spin the president will decide if we keep it or not.

Personally I'm still torn between Covid-19 and the Marburg virus. But I think Donnie is leaning towards Covid. Partly because it sounds like Covfefe, but also because it's the new thing. It's fresh. It's hot. Shiny. Sexy.

I guess either one of those or even a boring old chestnut like smallpox will do the trick so... meh.
  #114  
Old 03-24-2020, 03:33 AM
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How do you suppose Putin is feeling about Trump picking the economy over lives? I’m picturing Hannibal from the A-Team pulling the cigar from his mouth and saying “I love it when a plan comes together!”
  #115  
Old 03-24-2020, 05:30 AM
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I'm wondering how many people out in "the sticks" think this is just a city problem, nothing they have to worry about.
  #116  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:39 AM
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It means that he has no idea what to do. He is just saying something to make it look like he is in charge.
That's pretty much been the situation since he took office.
  #117  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:47 AM
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If Trump declares all is good in 7-8 days (or 15 days) I hope all Governors give him a hearty STFU!

My Gov. (Iowa, Gov. Kim Reynolds, (R)) probably won't. We "only" have a population of 3 million and are spread out... other than our high density cities. And other than those of us who live in the sticks have to go into the cities to work or shop. Thankfully, the schools are closed. Bars, restaurants, gathering places. But that's about as far as she has went. Money over people.
It seems that Democratic governors are in a position to do what Dems in Congress cannot, which is to show the country how to fucking lead and govern and provide comfort in times of crisis. The only thing better would be for people in Texas and Georgia and Florida and Alabama to be victimized by their own government's stupidity. I know that's callous, but that is the only way our stupider-than-pig shit society is going to get it.
  #118  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:52 AM
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A million Americans are going to die because the center of the country is too stupid to understand that right wing media is hyperbolic dipshittery.

And after all this, with an extra five or six trillion dollars of debt, they're going to blame the state of the economy on the Dem who has to put it back together. And the center of the country will hate that Dem.

It's downright bleak.
I'm not going to apologize for what I'm about to say.

I want people in 'red' states to suffer. I want them to see a convoy of military trucks hauling coffins out to the make-shift morgues.

I've been saying it over and over and over again: extreme pain is the only way we're going to fucking learn. And I say that knowing that even that might not be enough. And if it isn't, well then we don't deserve to have an America or an American dream. Our society would deserve to be tossed into the waste bin of history.
  #119  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:14 AM
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I'm not going to apologize for what I'm about to say.

I want people in 'red' states to suffer. I want them to see a convoy of military trucks hauling coffins out to the make-shift morgues.
In the most general, abstract sense, I agree with what you're saying. But: keep in mind, I'm as blue as they get, and I live in a red state. Nonpoliticial children live in red states. Most importantly, don't forget that red states are full of Trump cultists who would love to take a road trip to your blue state to cough on your city's metro to spread the pain.

Like it or not, this isn't a situation we can dismiss by saying "the hole isn't in my side of the boat".
  #120  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:16 AM
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In the most general, abstract sense, I agree with what you're saying. But: keep in mind, I'm as blue as they get, and I live in a red state. Nonpoliticial children live in red states. Most importantly, don't forget that red states are full of Trump cultists who would love to take a road trip to your blue state to cough on your city's metro to spread the pain.

Like it or not, this isn't a situation we can dismiss by saying "the hole isn't in my side of the boat".
I get what you're saying. I live in a purple state, and I visit Trump country regularly as my family lives there.

But pain is the only way we're going to figure this out. I'm admittedly thinking in the abstract and in a very global sense.

Elections have consequences. Ignorance has a price. The bill is due. And as I said, if we're not willing to pay it, we don't deserve to be thought of us much of a society at all, and it wouldn't bother me a bit to see the United States crack up and become something else entirely.

Last edited by asahi; 03-24-2020 at 07:17 AM.
  #121  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:15 AM
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Elections have consequences. Ignorance has a price. The bill is due. And as I said, if we're not willing to pay it, we don't deserve to be thought of us much of a society at all, and it wouldn't bother me a bit to see the United States crack up and become something else entirely.
Some thoughts:
  • The US deserves to be broken up because the Revolution's purpose was to keep just enough slavery to cast off the British monarchy.
  • Changing our form of government will not solve the problem of cause-effect hysteresis (i.e. the next President gets blamed for the current President's economy, when in fact the President has only limited control of the economy.
  • If the us "cracks up and becomes something else", I guarantee the remaining pieces are going to war, with foreign involvement, and we may not like the outcome.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 03-24-2020 at 08:16 AM.
  #122  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:21 AM
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In the most general, abstract sense, I agree with what you're saying. But: keep in mind, I'm as blue as they get, and I live in a red state. Nonpoliticial children live in red states. Most importantly, don't forget that red states are full of Trump cultists who would love to take a road trip to your blue state to cough on your city's metro to spread the pain.

Like it or not, this isn't a situation we can dismiss by saying "the hole isn't in my side of the boat".
Non-political children are living in the GOP's concentration camps as well. Fuck all the fascists.
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  #123  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:44 AM
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Non-political children are living in the GOP's concentration camps as well. Fuck all the fascists.
Seems like a non-sequitur, but it bears saying that you're a fascist if you propose punishing red states knowing that it will kill children who had no say in any of these policies.

Look, I would love for some punishment to fall selectively upon the GOP, something that they would recognize was their own fault, that would cause no loss of life, nor befall people who aren't GOP cultists, and could be easily be undone when they vote in a repentant fashion.

There's no point in talking about that kind of reckoning because it doesn't exist. Not least because they can't connect the dots between their votes and the actual outcome of what they voted for.
  #124  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:15 AM
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Seems like a non-sequitur, but it bears saying that you're a fascist if you propose punishing red states knowing that it will kill children who had no say in any of these policies.
I don't propose punishing these states, I just don't care what happens to them. Too disgusted.
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  #125  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:24 AM
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Maybe some of those red states could hit up their newly-enriched Congresspeople for some of their COVID-19 blood money; then they could afford to outbid others for new ventilators.
  #126  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:03 AM
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I hate Trump as much as anyone, and confess my ignorance as to epidemiology, statistics, and the economy. But is there any merit to the ideas set forth in this NYT oped?

He proposes that the 2 week general quarantine act as a rebooting of society, to be followed by more targeted measures aimed at the most vulnerable.

I admit that I may find this argument attractive because it jibes with my predisposition. And, as a general matter, I tend to favor targeted approaches over all-inclusive. I have not yet researched to see if the writer is a crank, or to otherwise support/refute his argument.
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  #127  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:26 AM
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The New York Times is relentless in it's pursuit of profit and thus many of us cannot read that.

ETA: But I'm gonna guess that, no, there's no real merit in it.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-24-2020 at 10:27 AM.
  #128  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:35 AM
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I want people in 'red' states to suffer. I want them to see a convoy of military trucks hauling coffins out to the make-shift morgues.
.
Fuck me but you’re a vile and repugnant piece of shit. Tedious to boot, which may even be the bigger sin. This is by no means the first time you’ve called for the death, suffering or summary execution of large swathes of people with whom you disagree. I’d call you a fascist, but by now that bunch has at least learned to limit their expressing their sociopathic tendencies for when they’re in their own Facebook groups. You are EXACTLY like the people you get worked up about, except actually worse than a good portion of them. You are wasting every breath of air you draw. You have no redeeming qualities: I’m pretty sure that in some bizarro world where you were in charge not even the trains would run on time. You, in fact, embody every bit as much as what is wrong with America as anyone you rant about.
  #129  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:37 AM
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I hate Trump as much as anyone, and confess my ignorance as to epidemiology, statistics, and the economy. But is there any merit to the ideas set forth in this NYT oped?

He proposes that the 2 week general quarantine act as a rebooting of society, to be followed by more targeted measures aimed at the most vulnerable.

I admit that I may find this argument attractive because it jibes with my predisposition. And, as a general matter, I tend to favor targeted approaches over all-inclusive. I have not yet researched to see if the writer is a crank, or to otherwise support/refute his argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
The New York Times is relentless in it's pursuit of profit and thus many of us cannot read that.

ETA: But I'm gonna guess that, no, there's no real merit in it.


I ran across this article earlier this morning. Usually I cannot read NYT articles, but for some reason, I can read this one.

The author, David Katz, has some impressive credentials, and the institute that he founded, the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center, is partially funded by the CDC, according to their website.

What he says makes some sense, but I have a hard time envisioning how we protect and isolate just the high-risk groups. I'm afraid that his suggestions are more pie-in-the-sky wishes, rather than policies that can actually be enacted.
  #130  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:01 AM
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...
What he says makes some sense, but I have a hard time envisioning how we protect and isolate just the high-risk groups. I'm afraid that his suggestions are more pie-in-the-sky wishes, rather than policies that can actually be enacted.
I dunno either, but it sounds like it proposes some sort of weighing of potential costs/benefits - which makes sense to me. If x% of precautions can likely prevent y% of infections/deaths/hospital use - then by all means, implement those x precautions. But how much additional "cost" do we incur in an attempt to remove as much risk as possible?

Apologies if this seeks rationed discussion as ill-befits a Pit thread!
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  #131  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:15 AM
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I'm not going to apologize for what I'm about to say.

I want people in 'red' states to suffer. I want them to see a convoy of military trucks hauling coffins out to the make-shift morgues.

I've been saying it over and over and over again: extreme pain is the only way we're going to fucking learn. And I say that knowing that even that might not be enough. And if it isn't, well then we don't deserve to have an America or an American dream. Our society would deserve to be tossed into the waste bin of history.
Nobody gives a fuck what you think or say.
  #132  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:19 AM
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NYT is giving free access to selected coronavirus articles: https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/coronavirus
  #133  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:30 AM
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The New York Times is relentless in it's pursuit of profit and thus many of us cannot read that.
The New York Times has removed the paywall for corona virus coverage. You can read it.
  #134  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:32 AM
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Fuck me
[Chad]No thanks.[/Chad]
  #135  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:34 AM
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Nobody gives a fuck what you think or say.
I do. I fully agree with him, in my darker moments. In my lighter moments, I just sort of generally approve
  #136  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:35 AM
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NYT is giving free access to selected coronavirus articles: https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/coronavirus
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The New York Times has removed the paywall for corona virus coverage. You can read it.
Every article I click on requires me to start an account. That doesn't fit my definition of "free".

And when I try and delete their cookie, it immediately reconstitutes itself.

ETA: HA! I moved to a machine that I just setup with Windows and now I can read stuff. Thanks y'all.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-24-2020 at 11:40 AM.
  #137  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:41 AM
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Spoke too soon. 1 article and now I get the "start an account or go away" half-page banner on that machine too.
  #138  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:45 AM
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The New York Times is relentless in it's pursuit of profit and thus many of us cannot read that.
Do you know why you should pay for news? Because if you don't you get crap like Fox.
  #139  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:49 AM
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Every article I click on requires me to start an account. That doesn't fit my definition of "free".
No different from starting an account here. You pay if you want to.
  #140  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:02 PM
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Spoke too soon. 1 article and now I get the "start an account or go away" half-page banner on that machine too.
I copied and pasted the article in Word. It's 1906 words. Should I post it here? It might make for an interesting discussion.
  #141  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:11 PM
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I copied and pasted the article in Word. It's 1906 words. Should I post it here? It might make for an interesting discussion.
Not sposed to copy and paste entire articles.
  #142  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:12 PM
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Funny - I googled the author's name and NYT, and the first link took me right to the article w/ no sign up req'd
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  #143  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:30 PM
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I'm wondering how many people out in "the sticks" think this is just a city problem, nothing they have to worry about.
Most of the people in the sticks watch FOXNews, so probably the vast majority of them.
  #144  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:34 PM
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Do you know why you should pay for news? Because if you don't you get crap like Fox.
This. Even my local paper charges for a digital subscription. It costs money to run those things. Do you work for free?
  #145  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:55 PM
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I guess for trump, losing money is worse than death.
How much do you guess we would have to pay him to die? I would contribute generously, and I am not even American.
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  #146  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:03 PM
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This. Even my local paper charges for a digital subscription. It costs money to run those things. Do you work for free?
One of mine does and one does not. https://lasvegassun.com is freely available, no targeted data mining required.

AFAIK all of the local TV channels in Las Vegas have freely available websites as well.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-24-2020 at 01:05 PM.
  #147  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by I Love Me, Vol. I View Post
Not sposed to copy and paste entire articles.
Then I won't.
  #148  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:15 PM
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The real issue is that decisions need to be taken as and when they are required.

There is no artificial 15 day deadline to then introduce new policies, countries that have been affected are making important changes daily and in some places almost hourly.

It really is dumb to give the impression that a set of measures will be reviewed in 15 days time, what will happen is that the current measures will provide data in that time but the situation will have moved on dramatically by then, todays changes will be needed for data gathered 15 days ago.
  #149  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:18 PM
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Trump's motives seem selfish and myopic. He's a bad guy and a bad POTUS. That said, for once there is a there there.

Yup, this coronavirus pandemic is a mean motherfucker. Probably tens of thousands will die, maybe a million, maybe more. We're all understandably focused on that. Meanwhile, we have a whole nother crisis brewing with the collapse of the economy in the cards. 20% unemployment? -15% GNP? Maybe worse than that?

Folks, the economic crisis is its own separate horseman of the Apocalypse. The there that's there in this discussion is that, yes, we really should find a way to balance our responses to both. We want to minimize risk to life but the quest to drive it all the way to 0% will have its own consequences.

What do we do when every bartender, waitress, Uber driver, retail employee and more is unemployed and out of money? It isn't just that they will become bad consumers that don't buy anything, driving everyone else out of business. They won't pay their rent and will face eviction. Or else we taxpayers will have to bail them out, which isn't out of the question mind you, but the kind of "socialism" where the state supports a huge non-working population really is going to fall apart eventually.

How much debt can we sustain? $25T? $30T $40T At some point we quit having public services. Infrastructure gets worse. Social Security gets cancelled. Obamacare and Medicare end, and then the pubbies win- a government that exists mostly to extract money from the masses to pay interest on loans made by the wealthy, a society without employment OR public services where those in need are on there own and can just crawl away and die if their needs threaten to cost another dollar to the New Aristocracy.

The bottom line is that we don't have good options. I don't want to be reckless, but I also don't think we should automatically start throwing cabbage and rotten eggs at everybody who calls attention to the economic crisis. We are beset by TWO monsters. Focusing on only one will get us killed by the other. I don't promote recklessness, but I say we should at least engage the discussion on how to face both.
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  #150  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:25 PM
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One of mine does and one does not. https://lasvegassun.com is freely available, no targeted data mining required.

AFAIK all of the local TV channels in Las Vegas have freely available websites as well.
Then you don't need the New York Times, do you?
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