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Old 05-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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The Big Bang Theory, Season 12, Episode 22 (May 9, 2019) -- "The Maternal Conclusion"


I am starting this thread in anticipation of tonight's episode.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:35 PM
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Even though I hoped 2 out of the 3 people chose the opposite of what they did, I LOVED this episode. I think Raj would have been happier with a wife and family than with his terrible friends who treat him like shit. And I wished that Leonard would have cut that toxicity right out of his life-- I still cannot be mad at the choices these guys made.

I also laughed and laughed. One more to go.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:57 PM
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I didn't like the regression to Sheldon's impossible cluelessness.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:01 AM
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Well, I didn't laugh (and I gotta say the laugh track has gotten really intrusive and annoying in the past few seasons) but I'm glad I watched. Leonard did just exactly the right thing regarding his mother -- congratulations to the writers. On the other hand, I swear if Raj finds a woman next week I am going to throw something pointy at the TV. (I thought that concierge person was out of his life completely, having missed some number of episodes, so all that was just out of the blue for me.)

Is there really only one episode left? There doesn't seem to be much room for any sort of cathartic/closure sort of final episode. Nobel prize? Someone's pregnant? Stuart dies and Raj gets his girlfriend? I hope I don't forget to watch.
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:06 AM
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It's a double-episode finale, I think.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:25 AM
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My DVR has a 1 hour double episode at 8 pm ET, and retrospective special at 9:30 (30 minutes).

Young Sheldon season finale is at 9 pm
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:01 AM
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Great fun! I enjoyed watching Leonard stand up to his mother. I'm glad that Howard went after Raj at the airport; that was both touching and funny. Overall, a good episode.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Leonard took a good approach with his mother. If I were in his shoes (or Penny's shoes), I'd have dropped her off at a hotel and forgotten about her. (Or just left her bags on the street and let her find her own way to a hotel.) You'd think a woman as smart as she is and being an expert in psychology would understand what Leonard wants from her.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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Leonard took a good approach with his mother. If I were in his shoes (or Penny's shoes), I'd have dropped her off at a hotel and forgotten about her. (Or just left her bags on the street and let her find her own way to a hotel.) You'd think a woman as smart as she is and being an expert in psychology would understand what Leonard wants from her.
She does understand, she faked it for him in the show, she just doesn't care, her son is a lab rat to her.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:40 AM
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As much as I love Christine Baranski, Beverly is a right bitch. There was a lost opportunity to meet Leonard's siblings to see how they're doing. No wonder her husband dumped her.

Raj admitted he's not happy in California, so why not fly to London? He and Anu seem to get along okay. Not getting a movie reference shouldn't be a dealbreaker. Ivylad doesn't get my love of all things Trek but he is going with me to see the DS9 documentary on Monday. Raj is going to continue to let his friends hold him back. There seemed to be a point where he recognized his friendship with Howard is toxic but he seems to have slipped back (I cringed when Howard said "Indian giver." Yikes, writers.)

Mitch was creepy but funny. "Don't look at me, look at her." So, Stuart is settled.

I have a fear this show is going to end with a whimper, not a bang.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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I have a fear this show is going to end with a whimper, not a bang.
It's been whimpering for a long time now. I do hope the finale is at least a half decent episode and not a gimmick.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:08 PM
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Good for Leonard, and for Penny for standing up to Beverley.

Good for Howard, for finally learning what it means to be a friend.

Good for Stuart, for recognizing love.

And good for Anu, for moving to London, so we don't have to look at her any more.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:11 PM
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Meh. The thing with Leonard and his mother was sappy and predictable crap. I was hoping she'd find a way to take a header down the elevator shaft--possibly while Sheldon binge watches "L.A. Law".....
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:57 PM
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Meh. The thing with Leonard and his mother was sappy and predictable crap.
It was, and it took a while for the audience to catch on that it was supposed to be a serious scene. It was completely out of character for the show, too, which made it even worse.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:31 PM
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Do you think this episode was specifically planned around an immediately-before-Mother's Day airing, or just coincidentally how it worked out with the scheduling of the season and the character arcs?
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:55 PM
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Good for Howard, for finally learning what it means to be a friend.
I don't agree with this. Howard was simply being selfish because he didn't want his playmate to move away. A true friend would have let him make his own life decisions even if he didn't agree with them. And how does Howard know Raj won't be happy starting a family in London?

While the rom-com cliche airport scene was cute, it made me feel bad for Raj. I kind of wished he'd have convinced Howard that he's doing what he wants and left anyway.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:40 PM
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It was, and it took a while for the audience to catch on that it was supposed to be a serious scene. It was completely out of character for the show, too, which made it even worse.
I still don't believe Beverly has changed in any meaningful way, but we won't have the pleasure of finding out. There really is no funny resolution possible for that relationship, so I vote for this one where maybe Leonard will come out of it feeling OK about himself.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:55 PM
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So has Raj quit his job at the university? If he was about to board a plane to the UK it would seem so. And no notice? Must be nice not to want a good reference.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:10 PM
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So has Raj quit his job at the university? If he was about to board a plane to the UK it would seem so. And no notice? Must be nice not to want a good reference.
He flew to London to propose - if she had accepted, he still would have had time to go back to California to quit his job and pack his belongings, but he was unsure that she would accept, so I'm reasonably confident that he didn't burn any bridges.

Last edited by Andy L; 05-10-2019 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:19 PM
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P.S. Good work finding someone that Stuart would find creepy for the roommate (I recognized the actor from his previous creepy roles on "Raising Hope" and "Malcolm in the Middle")
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:35 PM
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I was hoping she'd find a way to take a header down the elevator shaft--possibly while Sheldon binge watches "L.A. Law".....
Wrong. It was Dr. Pulaski who was supposed to fall down a turbolift chute.

Funny or not, I agreed with the Leonard and Raj stories, and I loved the Stuart story. And Shamy could sit and read the phone book,and I'd love that.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:42 PM
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This episode sucked. The mother was terrible to him forever, including this entire episode. Leonard was miserable and then thirty seconds before the episode ends he suddenly says, "I forgive you" the mother is still awful and then they hug.

Unearned and stupid.

The B plot and C plots were good.

Last edited by Quimby; 05-10-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:53 AM
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Here's the CBS press release about the final episode:

https://www.cbspressexpress.com/cbs-.../view?id=52641
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:11 AM
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Bernadette trying to cop a feel?

https://www.cbspressexpress.com/imag...5821bbadc8.jpg
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:34 AM
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The horrible character Anu/so-called actress-comedian playing her brought a lot of stink to the episode, but thankfully it was all on Raj's computer screen. The character is horrible. The person portraying her fies not do so well. Untalented & unfunny.

Re the finale: I'm hoping the main cast get in the newly-repaired elevator, the doors close, the elevator moves then gets stuck between floors. The last line is from Sheldon, quoting some obscure factoid about elevators.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:04 AM
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So has Raj quit his job at the university? If he was about to board a plane to the UK it would seem so. And no notice? Must be nice not to want a good reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy L View Post
He flew to London to propose - if she had accepted, he still would have had time to go back to California to quit his job and pack his belongings, but he was unsure that she would accept, so I'm reasonably confident that he didn't burn any bridges.
AIUI, he would have had to place Cinnamon in quarantine for six months upon her arrival in Old Blighty (N.B. Last minute research suggests that the quarantine can be avoided, with the caveat that it’s recommended that the dog’s owner start preparing to meet the requirements for the exemption four months prior to travel).
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:18 AM
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Leonard was miserable and then thirty seconds before the episode ends he suddenly says, "I forgive you" the mother is still awful and then they hug.
I actually thought that was the whole point: Leonard finally realized that his mother is never going to change, and with that realization he became able to accept her for who she is and forgive her for not being able to be the mother he needed (and forgive himself for needing more than she could provide). Beverly surprised herself by feeling relieved when Leonard "let her off the hook," leading to the hug -- even though she's still the same person.

I thought it was both realistic and kind of nice closure for that relationship. It would have been nice to have time to see Leonard and Beverly getting along better now that he knows to stop expecting/hoping for more than she can give, but I'll take this.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:52 AM
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I actually thought that was the whole point: Leonard finally realized that his mother is never going to change, and with that realization he became able to accept her for who she is and forgive her for not being able to be the mother he needed (and forgive himself for needing more than she could provide). Beverly surprised herself by feeling relieved when Leonard "let her off the hook," leading to the hug -- even though she's still the same person.

I thought it was both realistic and kind of nice closure for that relationship. It would have been nice to have time to see Leonard and Beverly getting along better now that he knows to stop expecting/hoping for more than she can give, but I'll take this.
This is also my take but I would have much rather Leonard come to the conclusion that he didn't need such a raging bitch purposely making him feel like crap all the time, do the real healthy thing and cut her off. He gets all the emasculation he needs from his wife.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:42 AM
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On reflection I think it WOULD have been a good idea to at some point have had an exploration of how Beverly Hofstadter approached child-rearing with Leonard's two siblings. Was it purely transactional, as it appears to have been in Leonard's case? Did one get "helicopter" parenting, while the other (perhaps a control) received some baseline of parental interaction extrapolated from the most mainstream parenting books from the 70's?

ISTM that Beverly Hofstadter treated her entire set of offspring as her research project, on which she hoped to write a ground-breaking treatise on cradle-to-commencement parenting and child-rearing.

I'd like to think of Leonard and Penny expatriating to Europe, where Leonard (now working at CERN) becomes a naturalized citizen, and sues on privacy grounds to block Beverly from publishing her findings.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:15 AM
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Here's the CBS press release about the final episode:

https://www.cbspressexpress.com/cbs-.../view?id=52641
Never read their press releases before - why in the world would they not refer to Howard and Raj by their first names in the cast listing? (Especially since Bernadette now shares Howard's last name.) Also, I thought I'd heard that Stuart was considered one of the principal cast now, was I mistaken?
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:01 PM
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It appears that there's a rigid hierarchy even among the regular cast, and this applies both to how they are listed in the credits and how they are paid. Johnny Galecki, Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, Simon Helberg, and Kunal Nayyar all appeared in the first episode, and they supposedly all are paid the same and get equal credits. Mayim Bialik and Melissa Rauch didn't appear until the third season and didn't become regulars until the fourth season, and they supposedly are paid somewhat less and get somewhat less credits. Kevin Sussman was a regular in the sixth season and has been one in all the seasons from the eighth one, and he supposedly is paid even less and he gets even less credits.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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It appears that there's a rigid hierarchy even among the regular cast, and this applies both to how they are listed in the credits and how they are paid. Johnny Galecki, Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, Simon Helberg, and Kunal Nayyar all appeared in the first episode, and they supposedly all are paid the same and get equal credits. Mayim Bialik and Melissa Rauch didn't appear until the third season and didn't become regulars until the fourth season, and they supposedly are paid somewhat less and get somewhat less credits. Kevin Sussman was a regular in the sixth season and has been one in all the seasons from the eighth one, and he supposedly is paid even less and he gets even less credits.
Heh. Now I’m picturing a negotiation session where Jim Parsons insists on being paid more, and the producers (a) think he’s worth it, but (b) aren’t willing to pay anybody else another cent, and, oh, what’s to be done, since the other castmembers have an agreement that they’ll get the same pay? All those millions at stake!

“Hey,” says a guy, “I guess we can just give Jim the difference we’re willing to pay, but say it’s for reading the occasional line on, oh, let’s call it ‘Young Sheldon’.”
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:47 PM
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Heh. Now I’m picturing a negotiation session where Jim Parsons insists on being paid more, and the producers (a) think he’s worth it, but (b) aren’t willing to pay anybody else another cent, and, oh, what’s to be done, since the other castmembers have an agreement that they’ll get the same pay? All those millions at stake!

“Hey,” says a guy, “I guess we can just give Jim the difference we’re willing to pay, but say it’s for reading the occasional line on, oh, let’s call it ‘Young Sheldon’.”
That would explain a lot...
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:22 PM
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I actually thought that was the whole point: Leonard finally realized that his mother is never going to change, and with that realization he became able to accept her for who she is and forgive her for not being able to be the mother he needed (and forgive himself for needing more than she could provide). Beverly surprised herself by feeling relieved when Leonard "let her off the hook," leading to the hug -- even though she's still the same person.

I thought it was both realistic and kind of nice closure for that relationship. It would have been nice to have time to see Leonard and Beverly getting along better now that he knows to stop expecting/hoping for more than she can give, but I'll take this.
To me it felt like the opposite of closure because it was so sudden and unearned.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:16 AM
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Never read their press releases before - why in the world would they not refer to Howard and Raj by their first names in the cast listing?
I happened to catch a rerun of "The Opening Night Excitation" recently (the episode where the guys go see "The Force Awakens," and Sheldon and Amy have coitus for the first time). I noticed that they did the same thing in the "Star Wars"-like opening crawl: the guys were referred to as "Leonard, Sheldon, Wolowitz and Koothrappali." For whatever reason, that seems to be the standard usage.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:47 AM
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To me it felt like the opposite of closure because it was so sudden and unearned.
Not earned by Beverly, but earned by Leonard. He was at the breaking point and had an epiphany, that this is how to set himself free. Beverly doesn't matter, so he is able to forgive her as he would a stranger who bumped into him.

Last edited by Roderick Femm; 05-13-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:57 PM
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On reflection I think it WOULD have been a good idea to at some point have had an exploration of how Beverly Hofstadter approached child-rearing with Leonard's two siblings. Was it purely transactional, as it appears to have been in Leonard's case? Did one get "helicopter" parenting, while the other (perhaps a control) received some baseline of parental interaction extrapolated from the most mainstream parenting books from the 70's?

ISTM that Beverly Hofstadter treated her entire set of offspring as her research project, on which she hoped to write a ground-breaking treatise on cradle-to-commencement parenting and child-rearing.
Beverly seems to be a Freudian psychiatrist, or some derivative thereof. What you're describing is more behaviorist.
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