Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:59 AM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member.

I mean, look at BTS here, versus NSYNC here.

Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there's just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs.
There was a group from the 60's who caused a scandal because of their "girly" moptop haircuts that the girls went absolutely wild over. What was their name...something about it bugs me!
  #102  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:06 PM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
This is much like the long-running Japanese girl group Morning Musume, which "retires" members when they turn 20. Here is a sample video, chosen for its interesting choice of setting and cutting-edge special effects.
Japan also has AKB48 and its sister groups with well over 100 members in total. Members "graduate" as they gain individual popularity. Three members are currently in the reality survival group Kpop group Iz*one. https://kprofiles.com/izone-members-profile/

Last edited by lingyi; 05-10-2019 at 12:07 PM.
  #103  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:30 PM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
I've heard of them and indeed heard them (on television). They're just the latest in a long line of generic, overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed heartthrob bands churning out immediately-forgettable music and a metric shit-ton of merch. They're the NKOTB of a new generation.

This too shall pass.
I don't like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can't argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016.

"...overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed..."? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely!

Edit: BTW, I'm a fan of Twice in that, while their songs may be "bubble gum", they're really catchy and addicting! Can't have just steak and potatoes all the time!

Last edited by lingyi; 05-10-2019 at 12:33 PM.
  #104  
Old 05-10-2019, 04:36 PM
epbrown01 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post

"...overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed..."? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely!
One thing K-pop always makes me wonder about is what music do disaffected Korean teens listen to.
__________________
"Motorcycles - the cigarettes of transportation." Seth Meyers
  #105  
Old 05-10-2019, 05:11 PM
Miller's Avatar
Miller is online now
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 43,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member.

I mean, look at BTS here, versus NSYNC here.

Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there's just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs.
You're 46 - surely you remember the '80s?
  #106  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:32 PM
suranyi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 7,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
I don't like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can't argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016.

"...overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed..."? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely!

Edit: BTW, I'm a fan of Twice in that, while their songs may be "bubble gum", they're really catchy and addicting! Can't have just steak and potatoes all the time!
Speaking of Twice, tickets for their US tour went on sale today, and I got a couple for their show in L.A. Good thing I did because itís just about sold out.
__________________
Right now, itís Girlsí Generation. Tomorrow, itís Girlsí Generation. Forever, itís Girlsí Generation!
  #107  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:59 PM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
https://youtu.be/MBdVXkSdhwU

I officially renounce everything I said in my Tupac thread. With that said, I bid you farewell Straight Dope. I'm packing up and moving to the moon. This world is no longer something I can call home, I don't know the first thing about things that always made sense to me.

Watching that damn video, I had no fucking clue whether i was watching a boy band, a girl band or a clay band. I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything.

Or, the BTS band is like the characters in the episode of South Park in which ads had finally become sentient. Maybe theze things arent human?? Maybe they are all actually just ads that ultimately, at a time programmed in their software when they've got us wrapped around their fingers, will drop the charade and start pushing Hyundai's in earnest.
I present to you, Kim Hee Chul https://www.google.com/search?q=kim+...w=1280&bih=879, the most stunningly beautiful male I've ever seen. And this is from a hetrosexual male who admires and loves women a bit too much (...recalling the really dumb things I've done to get just a bit closer to a woman).

The first time I saw him on the Korean variety show Knowing Bros/Ask Me Anything, I seriously thought he was actress Lee Na Young https://www.google.com/search?q=lee+...w=1280&bih=879, who is one of my favorite actresses and was genuinely confused about my sexually for a few moments!
  #108  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:43 AM
ekedolphin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 4,899
I saw them on the cover of, was it Entertainment Weekly or Rolling Stone? One of the two. Haven't read the article yet.

I just pulled up "Boy with Luv" and I thought it was pretty good, actually.
  #109  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:42 AM
TokyoBayer's Avatar
TokyoBayer is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Jesus Christ. Look, I meant the OP to be in good fun. I had never seen the phenomenon of kpop before and i found it humorous. And I likened them to alien-like sentient beings, not to girls, boys or "androgynous males". I honestly meant no offense or mockery. If anything I mocked *myself* for becoming a old, has-been who doesn't "get-it" and wants these young'uns to turn that racket down!
Can you show us the exact word you used in your OP to mock yourself? Something like "Damn, I'm getting old." rather than "I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything." and "Maybe theze things arent human??"

That should be pretty straightforward to point out the words you used to mock yourself. If, infact you were doing that.

Jesus Christ, indeed.
  #110  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:26 PM
Ambivalid is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 13,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
Can you show us the exact word you used in your OP to mock yourself? Something like "Damn, I'm getting old." rather than "I couldnt shake myself of the terrifying certainty that underneath those garish outfits, everything was smooth. Everything." and "Maybe theze things arent human??"

That should be pretty straightforward to point out the words you used to mock yourself. If, infact you were doing that.

Jesus Christ, indeed.
Things like me saying I was leaving this world to live on the moon; not understanding things that used to make sense me, used to be comfortable.
  #111  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:12 PM
Tripler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: JSOTF SDMB, OL-LANL
Posts: 7,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
KISS is touring this year, as are The Who and Queen. The Rollings Stones would have toured except for Mick Jagger's surgery. You may be getting AC/DC and Def Leppard as well.
No foolin'?!? You, Sir, have just made my day. . . no . . . my week.

Damn, those geriatric types can rock, and will show those kids a thing or two.

Tripler
This thread made me dust off my Houses of the Holy CD.

Last edited by Tripler; 05-11-2019 at 01:13 PM.
  #112  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:02 PM
actualliberalnotoneofthose is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
My daughter is on her way to their concert right now. Not my thing, but enjoying them has been very helpful for her mental health this year.
  #113  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:50 PM
TokyoBayer's Avatar
TokyoBayer is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Things like me saying I was leaving this world to live on the moon; not understanding things that used to make sense me, used to be comfortable.
Thatís really weak sauce. You clearly know how to mock when itís Asian men, and it appears in the OP that you thought that the world was crazy, and not you.

Whatever. Itís not a huge thing. I know people who are outright racists, such as my brother-in-law, and you donít seem that.

I probably wouldnít have thought much about this if this werenít just right after your Tupac thread. For some reason, male singers and sexuality or gender seems to be an issue with you.

I canít relate myself. Maybe because Iím pretty clueless, but Iíve never really wondered if rappers can or canít be gay, if high school studentsí acquired mannerisms determine their sexual orientation for their entire life, or if men in ďgarnish clothesĒ are or arenít in possession of dangly bits, let alone felt certainty about the answer or the need to share those thoughts with the world.

People often suppose that since I live in Asian, that I love Asian culture. Actually, thereís many things I donít like and others I simply donít care. I canít name a single k-pop group (other than this), and despite living in Japan for 25 years, with the constant exposure to j-pop, I just never got into it. I just donít see the need to mock them.
  #114  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:34 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
I don't like the tone of the above, but have to agree with the over marketing of KPop (JPop, CPop, American pop, European pop, et. al). However in the case of Kpop, you can't argue with success. JYP Entertainment manages Twice (arguably the girl group equivalent of BTS) with extremely strict management rules and savvy marketing. And ITZY, their new group introduced this year is set to potentially overtake Twice, which started in 2016.

"...overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed..."? Definitely. A model for success? Definitely!
I'm aware it's a model for success. That's why it's repeated over and over again - boy band/girl band gets thrown together, marketed the crap out of, releases a couple of factory-produced hits, and hormonally-tumultuous teens go mad for them. It's been going on for a couple of generations, although the marketing has gotten slicker and the music less interesting.

Usually what happens is that after a few years of adulation one or more band members decide that they're the real talent of the group, go off to launch a solo career (successfully or not) and the rest of the group goes on "hiatus". Then the solo career falters, there's a reunion tour and they're relegated to the easy listening stations while the next big manufactured thing takes their place. To use the UK scene as an example: One Direction lasted about five years before Harry Styles left. Take That, roughly the same before Robbie Williams left. The Spice Girls were huge, yet only really had four years between "Wannabe" and the breakup. A few groups hang on longer - Girls Aloud and Westlife managed almost a decade, and Boyzone about seven years.

If you enjoy BTS, I'm not begrudging you that enjoyment. There have been manufactured bands whose music I have enjoyed too. But as I said - this too shall pass.
  #115  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:11 AM
epbrown01 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
If you enjoy BTS, I'm not begrudging you that enjoyment. There have been manufactured bands whose music I have enjoyed too. But as I said - this too shall pass.
I think it's more obvious when the cut off is for boy/girl groups, but everyone has a pretty finite window for maximum popularity - even AC/DC, Def Leppard, the Stones. Your permanent playlist is pretty locked in by your early 20s, and it's been decades since music has been a noticeable percentage of my spending, and only notably so when I track down something from that early period (finding Big Pig's BONK was a bit of a hassle).

The real difference is what's driving them. Boy/girl groups of all cultures stop when the company driving their success decide they've made enough of a return or the talent's too much of a hassle. Bands formed on their own can keep going despite dwindling audiences, if they want to.
__________________
"Motorcycles - the cigarettes of transportation." Seth Meyers
  #116  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:04 PM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
I believe this is limited to Kpop (in which singers can be in training for years before debuting, if ever), but once they debut, they typically begin a seven year contract under which the majority of their earning from the music goes to repay the debt collected during their training period. In addition, particularly for groups, the agency continues to provide room and board, adding to their debt. It takes most Kpop stars years to erase their agency debt and begin to earn money from their music.

However, in general, most of the money they earn from non-music appearances such as acting and commercials are theirs and they can use that to pay down their agency debt early.

Last edited by lingyi; 05-13-2019 at 12:04 PM.
  #117  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:14 PM
lingyi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by epbrown01 View Post
I think it's more obvious when the cut off is for boy/girl groups, but everyone has a pretty finite window for maximum popularity - even AC/DC, Def Leppard, the Stones. Your permanent playlist is pretty locked in by your early 20s, and it's been decades since music has been a noticeable percentage of my spending, and only notably so when I track down something from that early period (finding Big Pig's BONK was a bit of a hassle).

The real difference is what's driving them. Boy/girl groups of all cultures stop when the company driving their success decide they've made enough of a return or the talent's too much of a hassle. Bands formed on their own can keep going despite dwindling audiences, if they want to.
All South Korean males must serve at least two years in the military by age 28. Several of the BTS members are in their mid 20's and (if they haven't already served) will likely join in the next year or so (it's considered bad form to wait until you're 28 to join). With very rare exceptions, this means that they'll be out of the public eye for at least two years. An eternity in Kpop.

Also, members rarely join at the same time. So it may be much more than two years before they're a complete group again.

During that time, the remaining members will create sub-units or carry on as individuals. This is one of the reasons Kpop groups (both male and female) tends to have a large number of members. The group can lose or replace several of the least popular members and still continue on.
  #118  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:02 AM
suranyi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 7,867
By the way, BTS is the first group since the Beatles to have three Number One albums on the Billboard 200 chart in the span of twelve months. So anyone who keeps up with current pop music should have heard of them.
__________________
Right now, itís Girlsí Generation. Tomorrow, itís Girlsí Generation. Forever, itís Girlsí Generation!
  #119  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:18 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
You mean he's STILL here?
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 25,735
They were on Colbert last night. Considering their grasp of the English language, it was certainly better than Pink Lady and Jeff.
  #120  
Old 05-17-2019, 04:47 PM
ftg's Avatar
ftg is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not the PNW :-(
Posts: 19,008
Also saw the Colbert show. Very much less than impressed. I think the retro-Sullivan Show thing Colbert did doesn't work with a group like this.

Just a lot of posing while half pretending to lip sync to generic music. "Meh" is too high of praise.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017