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  #51  
Old 12-17-2016, 07:49 AM
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There could be another chunk of amber waiting to be found (or already in someone's collection) that contains more of the tail. The amber-producing trees of the past seem to have been pretty leaky (there are actual mines for amber) and chunks can get pretty big.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:52 PM
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And now, an ammonite shell preserved in amber. Sadly, no soft tissue preservation, which would have been a huge deal.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:58 PM
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Dinosaur tail discovered trapped in amber


I missed this thread the first time. Just read the linked NYT article and am chuffed to discover that there is an expert in prehistoric amber working in our local museum.

Small amber Dino-tails, largest T-rex.
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  #54  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:13 AM
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And now, an ammonite shell preserved in amber. Sadly, no soft tissue preservation, which would have been a huge deal.
My first thought was Amber is fossilized tree resin. How the HELL does an undersea creature like an ammonite get trapped in amber?.

From the linked article:

Quote:
It is most likely that the resin fell to the beach from coastal trees, picking up terrestrial arthropods and beach shells and, exceptionally, surviving the high-energy beach environment to be preserved as amber.
That's a pretty impressive series of unlikely events. A blob of thick resin has to fall from a coastal tree into the water, remain cohesive and not break up on its way to the bottom, then envelop a bunch of stuff, including the small ammonite before it gets so encrusted with shell fragments and beach sand that it isn't capable of sticking to anything, then avoid currents and waves and the like so it doesn't get pounded into oblivion. I can envision a tree overhanging a swamp or a salty inlet, maybe, where there's no more than tidal motion to contend with. But it still seems like a weird and relatively rare scenario.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:40 AM
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I thought the amber fell onto a beach, where it covered the shell and terrestrial creatures.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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We have a small flock of chickens. 6 actually, it was 7 but one was partly eaten a few days ago by an unknown assailant, but I digress.

When they all come running over when I'm throwing them scraps, I sorta kinda imagine them as bigger and dinosaur scary, and it's pretty disturbing actually.
Yeah. Let me just say I'm glad my pet parrots are all under a foot tall and weigh ounces instead of being 6-8 feet tall and weighing a lot. Instead of them calling me for food they'd be hunting me for food.

Birds: Small. Cute. Feathery. Horny. Vicious. They didn't survive 100 million years by being nice....
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:51 AM
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So, is it likely that all dinosaurs were feathered, or is it possible that some had feathers and others had scales?
I'm just going to point out that modern aviform dinosaurs continue to have scales on their lower legs and feet. So almost certainly yes, feathers scales and both.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:55 AM
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I thought the amber fell onto a beach, where it covered the shell and terrestrial creatures.
In that case it still has to avoid being broken up by the pounding of waves repeatedly on the beach*. It's still, to my mind, a pretty unlikely scenario. Unless the trees are really thick on the beach and dripping resin everywhere.






*The tree has to be close to the water line, or else the ammonite shell doesn't get deposited where it can get resin dripped on it. And don't suggest it's dropped there by some scavenger -- in order for us to have a specimen come down to us, the likelihood of an amber-trapped ammonite is probably a pretty likely scenario.
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  #59  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:00 AM
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I am reliably informed that eyes have evolved three times. Mammals, birds, and in the Octopus. This is to say that there are three basic structures. Of these, the design of mammalian eyes is not the best - not even close.
Err.... yes and no.

As others have mentioned, the photoreceptor portion might have evolved only once and the multiple types of eyes arose from different ways of getting more information out of them, such as pits, cephalapod and tetrapod eyes have retinas flipped in relation to each other (and it's the cephalopods - octopuses and squids - who have the better version), compound vs. single camera eyes, multiple ways of constructing compound eyes, and tribolites had crystalline lens no other type of animal ever did.

So, first define what you mean by "eye" and "vision". But regardless, once you get past "photoreceptor pigments" there are more than three.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:03 AM
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By the way, isn't this how the monster got started in the 1961 Danish-American film Reptilicus? With a preserved dinosaur tail being dug up, which the scientists then used to recover the original animal by regenerating it from its tail?

http://www.monstershack.net/sp/index...ptilicus-1961/
https://horrornews.net/98880/film-re...ptilicus-1961/

Does anyone know where that amber-preserved tail is now? I hope it's not soaking in a nutrient bath.
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  #61  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:06 AM
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As I understand it, there are four lineages of imaging eye: Lensed eyes in the vertebrates, cephalopods, and (of all things) box jellyfish (who wouldn't seem to have enough of a nervous system to make any use of images, but who knows), plus the compound eyes of arthropods. While these might have had some sort of common ancestry from a primitive light-sensitive organ, that organ would not have been imaging.
The trilobites had yet another eye structure, which of course people aren't as familiar with what with trilobites being extinct so long. Among other things, the lenses were formed of calcite crystals unlike any other eyes on the planet.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:10 AM
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The trilobites had yet another eye structure, which of course people aren't as familiar with what with trilobites being extinct so long. Among other things, the lenses were formed of calcite crystals unlike any other eyes on the planet.
This has always fascinated me, and I want to look into it further.

There are a lot of weird and interesting animal eyes out there, including some that use reflective mirror structures in place of refractive lenses
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  #63  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:16 AM
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The trilobites had yet another eye structure
Strictly speaking, two different structures - holochroal and schizochroal.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:48 AM
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Time travelers.
It was time travelers.
I'm waiting for a water bottle cap to be found in amber.
Pepsi. It's always Pepsi.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:05 PM
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Strictly speaking, two different structures - holochroal and schizochroal.

Three.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:42 PM
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By the way, isn't this how the monster got started in the 1961 Danish-American film Reptilicus? With a preserved dinosaur tail being dug up, which the scientists then used to recover the original animal by regenerating it from its tail?

http://www.monstershack.net/sp/index...ptilicus-1961/
https://horrornews.net/98880/film-re...ptilicus-1961/

Does anyone know where that amber-preserved tail is now? I hope it's not soaking in a nutrient bath.
Call Ray Harryhausen! Heíll know what to do!

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  #67  
Old 05-14-2019, 05:46 PM
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OK, so we just need to first soak Harryhausen in a nutrient bath.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:42 AM
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Fair enough, although I was taught that abathochroal eyes were just an intermediary form between the other two.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:58 PM
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Note that a tree on a shoreline is not necessarily all that stable. The whole, oozing, tree can fall over into the shallows, landing on whatever "lucky" future fossil happens to be there.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:57 PM
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Note that a tree on a shoreline is not necessarily all that stable. The whole, oozing, tree can fall over into the shallows, landing on whatever "lucky" future fossil happens to be there.
Why am I thinking of trilobites?
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  #71  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by China Guy
We have a small flock of chickens. 6 actually, it was 7 but one was partly eaten a few days ago by an unknown assailant, but I digress.

Originally Posted by Broomstick:

When they all come running over when I'm throwing them scraps, I sorta kinda imagine them as bigger and dinosaur scary, and it's pretty disturbing actually.
Yeah. Let me just say I'm glad my pet parrots are all under a foot tall and weigh ounces instead of being 6-8 feet tall and weighing a lot. Instead of them calling me for food they'd be hunting me for food.

Birds: Small. Cute. Feathery. Horny. Vicious. They didn't survive 100 million years by being nice....


heh wanna see the modern day equivalent of being chased by compys? run out of bread while feeding the local ducks at the park.... especially during laying/hatching season .. back east they had to tell people not to feed the ducks/geese at certain times of the year as they'ed get too aggressive and knock and trample some little kid (who may or may ot of been me ..)in the park after he ran out of bread ...

Last edited by nightshadea; 05-15-2019 at 09:10 PM.
  #72  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:47 PM
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Iím just going to ask the dumb question here:

Did T-Rex look like a big chicken? Is that where we are going with this?

I, for one, love the idea that the dinosaurs had plumage. But how much are we talking here?
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:16 AM
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I'm thinking a fabulous feather boa effect.
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  #74  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:45 AM
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The current evidence is that feathers or filiments that were the evolutionary precursors of feathers go down pretty well to the base of the dinosaur family tree. That doesn't mean that they all had to keep them, though, just as humans, elephants, and mole rats share a common ancestor that almost certainly was hairer than we/they are.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 05-16-2019 at 12:46 AM.
  #75  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:01 AM
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Iím just going to ask the dumb question here:

Did T-Rex look like a big chicken? Is that where we are going with this?
Look at p. 51 of Tom Weller's Science Made Stupid: http://www.chrispennello.com/tweller/

http://www.besse.at/sms/evolutn.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=Well...=1558008071916
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