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  #101  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:08 AM
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#949 Method Doctor

New Strip!

ETA: Wow, I got it first. That never happens.

Last edited by Saltire; 04-18-2014 at 11:09 AM.
  #102  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:12 AM
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Psst! 6 posts back.


But you are right. That never happens.
  #103  
Old 04-18-2014, 12:19 PM
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ETA: Wow, I got it first. That never happens.
Heh, I remember the first time I thought I had it first. Turns out the announcement was just on the previous page.

I wonder how many false "new strip" posts there were in the book 5 thread?
  #104  
Old 04-24-2014, 04:46 AM
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New Strip #950
  #105  
Old 04-24-2014, 04:58 AM
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V has become a lot more comfortable with his badassitude, hasn't she?
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:07 AM
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I'm kind of loving Mr. Scruffy and the former dinosaur snuggled happily up together in the first panel. And is that V preparing Explosive Runes? It's just about time for that running gag to come up again, isn't it?


ETA: Also, 'My Other Airship is a Carpet.' Heh!

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  #107  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:25 AM
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I wonder if there's any signifigance to this little bit of narrative that will become apparent later. It seems like the joke is not worth a whole strip.
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  #108  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:51 AM
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V has become a lot more comfortable with his badassitude, hasn't she?
Wizards get the ability to handle entire encounters single handedly by the level the Order is at. I would hope most of them adjust to it fairly easily. Then again, this is just an environmental consideration, so V doesn't consider it terribly exciting.

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I wonder if there's any signifigance to this little bit of narrative that will become apparent later. It seems like the joke is not worth a whole strip.
I noticed that as well - seemed like a throwaway strip compared to what came before. I suppose even Rich is allowed downtime.

Although there's plenty in here to note. Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator is hanging out with Mr. Scruffy. Blackwing is airsick, and getting along with V like an old married couple. V is happy to help out, unlike when they were on Hinjo's Junk.
  #109  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:22 AM
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V is happy to help out, unlike when they were on Hinjo's Junk.
V and Hinjo had sex ?!
  #110  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:26 AM
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I noticed that as well - seemed like a throwaway strip compared to what came before. I suppose even Rich is allowed downtime.
He's spending all his time drawing those colored in "stick" hands these days, no time for plot
  #111  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:33 AM
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  #112  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:43 AM
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I noticed that as well - seemed like a throwaway strip compared to what came before. I suppose even Rich is allowed downtime.
It's not a strip - it's the third page of a book. It's there to establish setting and character, not to provide a punchline.
  #113  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:45 AM
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And is that V preparing Explosive Runes? It's just about time for that running gag to come up again, isn't it?
V was scribing a scroll; hence the request to Blackwing not to vomit on it. A prudent use of class features, since wizards get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.
  #114  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:01 AM
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I wonder if there's any signifigance to this little bit of narrative that will become apparent later. It seems like the joke is not worth a whole strip.
Most likely it just shows the ship getting damaged, but they got it under control. Next strip they have to land for repairs, and the adventure starts.
  #115  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:30 AM
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Most likely it just shows the ship getting damaged, but they got it under control. Next strip they have to land for repairs, and the adventure starts.
It's the sort of thing though that could (and I think would) usually be handled with one or two panels. V casting Cone of Cold, fire out and V walking back to the group. This seemed unnecessarily elaborate in setup but I suppose it's not worth worrying about. Either something in it will come back again or else he just felt like giving V the chance to be badass and zap a smoldering bit of tinder.
  #116  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:34 AM
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V was scribing a scroll; hence the request to Blackwing not to vomit on it. A prudent use of class features, since wizards get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.
Yeah, that's basically what wizards do whenever they get free time : store the daily spell slot allowance they're not using on paper, for later. The scroll can then be read at any time to cast the spell that had been inscribed on it, at a preset caster level.

It costs some money and the tab runs up deceptively quick, but it's still extremely useful to keep a scroll bank of spells that are too situational to memorize in the context of a general dungeon, but can come in super handy in rare situations that can't really be foreseen before you walk in. Stuff like a Gust of Wind to disperse a Fog or Cloudkill spell, water-breathing, item repair, Death Ward, Gaseous Form... or just Dimension Door so that the rogue/bard can get the whole party out of dodge even should the wizard bite it.
It's pretty cool for clerics as well, but of course they have to spend a feat slot on it and never have enough of 'em already.
  #117  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:52 AM
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I remember discussing this in the other thread, I think, but just to re-clarify: Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator won't spontaneously turn back into a dinosaur, right?
  #118  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:05 AM
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Baleful Polymorph is permanent. The only way Bloodfeast is growing 125 shoe sizes is if someone deliberately dispels the Polymorph.

Last edited by Kobal2; 04-24-2014 at 11:07 AM.
  #119  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:48 AM
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Or if someone accidentally dispels the Polymorph. Someone could set off an area dispel, that the dinosaur just happens to get caught in. But yeah, the point is that it's not going to wear off spontaneously.

And the other place scrolls are really handy is for the fix-up spells, like Remove Curse, Remove Blindness, Raise Dead, etc. When one of those conditions is affecting you, you want to get rid of it right away, but they come up very rarely. Of course, those spells are mostly cleric spells, not wizard.
  #120  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:59 AM
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I wonder if there's any signifigance to this little bit of narrative that will become apparent later. It seems like the joke is not worth a whole strip.
I think this one's all about showing V's character growth. First, he's still treating Blackwing like a person, and not a class feature. He's interrupted while working on magic stuff, and responds immediately. Elan points out the blindingly obvious, and V thanks him for the advice with only a little snark. He waits to find out the whole situation before acting. He casts a high level offensive spell without any warm up at all, and finishes the job with a zero level spell, before going back to work without another word.

Vaarsuvius back in book one, in the same circumstance, wouldn't have been talking to Blackwing at all. She would have bitched about being interrupted to deal with someone else's problem, insulted Elan for pointing out the obvious, acted immediately without listening to anyone else, and likely have spent so much time monologing before casting her spell that the ship would have crashed before she got around to it. Ifs he did get the spell off, she'd then bitch some more about being interrupted, before casting a second cone of cold to finish off the twig, because "proportional response" is something for NPC classes.
  #121  
Old 04-24-2014, 12:09 PM
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I think this one's all about showing V's character growth. First, he's still treating Blackwing like a person, and not a class feature. He's interrupted while working on magic stuff, and responds immediately. Elan points out the blindingly obvious, and V thanks him for the advice with only a little snark. He waits to find out the whole situation before acting. He casts a high level offensive spell without any warm up at all, and finishes the job with a zero level spell, before going back to work without another word.

Vaarsuvius back in book one, in the same circumstance, wouldn't have been talking to Blackwing at all. She would have bitched about being interrupted to deal with someone else's problem, insulted Elan for pointing out the obvious, acted immediately without listening to anyone else, and likely have spent so much time monologing before casting her spell that the ship would have crashed before she got around to it. Ifs he did get the spell off, she'd then bitch some more about being interrupted, before casting a second cone of cold to finish off the twig, because "proportional response" is something for NPC classes.
Just posting to add my agreement. This strip shows us that while V hasn't solved all of his personality problems, he's working on them and making progress.
  #122  
Old 04-24-2014, 12:18 PM
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That's a lot of ice on the end of an airship. Just sayin'.
  #123  
Old 04-24-2014, 12:39 PM
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And y'know, Elan wasn't necessarily pointing out the obvious. This is Julio Scoundrel's ship, after all-- It probably does have an option for making flames shoot out of the engines.
  #124  
Old 04-24-2014, 02:30 PM
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That's a lot of ice on the end of an airship. Just sayin'.
It doesn't create ice, it just drains heat, so the only ice would be the water that rained down while the spell was going off. Which is presumably not much.
  #125  
Old 04-24-2014, 03:02 PM
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V looks weird with boots. Even when the others were drawn with boots at the end of their stick-legs, V was "barefoot". Well, I assumed wearing sandals or slippers or something. But now he has big ole honkin' mud-kickers on.

Last edited by Jophiel; 04-24-2014 at 03:03 PM.
  #126  
Old 04-24-2014, 05:48 PM
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Say, when did Haley acquire the ability to fly?
  #127  
Old 04-24-2014, 06:01 PM
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Between #920, when V, who had one more Fly spell available, was sent to retrieve Haley and Elan, and #921, when we see Haley flying back with V, carrying Elan.
  #128  
Old 04-24-2014, 06:02 PM
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Yeah, that's basically what wizards do whenever they get free time : store the daily spell slot allowance they're not using on paper, for later. The scroll can then be read at any time to cast the spell that had been inscribed on it, at a preset caster level.

It costs some money and the tab runs up deceptively quick . . .
Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients?
  #129  
Old 04-24-2014, 06:03 PM
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Between #920, when V, who had one more Fly spell available, was sent to retrieve Haley and Elan, and #921, when we see Haley flying back with V, carrying Elan.
So, is it the kind of spell that is permanent or the kind that will wear off in a day?
  #130  
Old 04-24-2014, 06:29 PM
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Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients?
Yeah. Well, that's the in game reason. Really you just wouldn't want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them.

Of course, these are the same game rules that give us this
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:39 PM
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So, is it the kind of spell that is permanent or the kind that will wear off in a day?
If V is using the Overland Flight spell, it lasts for most of a day.
  #132  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:32 PM
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Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients?
The in-game justification is that copying magical spells of higher magick requires magickal components to enable ritual applications of supranaturally fockused higher mental powers something something physical focus bladibladiblah.

The real, metagame reason is that spellcasting classes are buff as hell, scrolls further empower them and if scrolls were free free it would totally skew what semblance of balance D&D 3.5 still has in (further) favour of CoDzilla (read : Cleric or Druid, Fuck Your Adventure Sideways Haw Haw Haw).

E.g. compare a Fighter who has to annihilate an entire goblin tribe to be able to afford his first Ring of Protection +1 (congrats on popping your cherry, Fighter !) vs. a cleric who could forever scroll his Shield of Faith spell which adds 1/3 of his level to his armour class for HisClass rounds. In game, the combination of spell slot restrictions + time component makes the CoDzilla a somewhat punctual monster : he can only be a total monster for a given number of rounds per day. If he had access to infinite scrolls (which would happen if scrolls were free, since past a certain level it's almost mundane for adventuring parties to have access to a pocket plane outside of time, and even without that there's always a downtime period between adventures), he would be a monster all of the time. Which would make the Fighter sad. Sadder than he already is, anyway.

Last edited by Kobal2; 04-24-2014 at 07:33 PM.
  #133  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:41 PM
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I noticed that as well - seemed like a throwaway strip compared to what came before. I suppose even Rich is allowed downtime.
Agreed. This strip didn't do a whole lot to advance the plot. Highly unusual (read: never happens) when it's Rich.

Last edited by Agent Foxtrot; 04-24-2014 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Didn't, not did
  #134  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:09 PM
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Agreed. This strip didn't do a whole lot to advance the plot.
As far as we know right now.
  #135  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:56 PM
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"V, the engine's on fire!"
"And it's not supposed to be!"
"Thank you, Elan, for that key situational context."

Hee.
  #136  
Old 04-25-2014, 04:21 AM
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Yeah. Well, that's the in game reason. Really you just wouldn't want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them.
Actually you do. It prevents the '15 minute day'. It also uses up XP and means that the wizard is a level or two below the non-spellcasters and that the party aren't stymied when a particular spell is needed.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:55 AM
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There's a difference between having a handy Water Walk scroll on you and having twenty Fireballs.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:29 AM
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Actually you do. It prevents the '15 minute day'.
Only at the cost of creating the 15 minute month. The problem of mages burning 24 hours of preparation in a few minutes of frenzied spellcasting cannot be solved simply by letting them build up more hours of preparation. You'd have to do the opposite - give them the limited ability to refresh themselves more than once every 24 hours. Maybe cantrips should only take 10 minutes to prepare, and can be prepared while performing light duties like walking rather than requiring 8 hours rest.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:22 AM
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Maybe cantrips should only take 10 minutes to prepare, and can be prepared while performing light duties like walking rather than requiring 8 hours rest.
Or, more generally, reduce preparation time as the difference between the caster level and the spell level increases, down to some minimum that makes it impractical to refresh them in combat.
  #140  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:57 PM
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There's a difference between having a handy Water Walk scroll on you and having twenty Fireballs.
On the other hand, at fifth level, you can just make a wand of fireballs, and have forty of them on you.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:28 PM
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Yeah. Well, that's the in game reason. Really you just wouldn't want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them. . . .
I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free.

Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he'd use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities.
  #142  
Old 04-25-2014, 01:39 PM
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On the other hand, at fifth level, you can just make a wand of fireballs, and have forty of them on you.
Replace "fireball" with whatever. I was speaking in generics with an eye towards the non-role players in the thread. I don't think there should really be any debate over the notion that high costs in creating magical items is intended (successfully or not) to help prevent swamping the world in cheap magic.
  #143  
Old 04-25-2014, 01:40 PM
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I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free.

Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he'd use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities.
Unless I'm mistaken, zero level spells count as level 0.5 for the purposes of determining the cost of magic items. At least in the current rules, anyway - perhaps that's a fix they put in to prevent that kind of rules abuse.
  #144  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:00 PM
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Yeah, but that wand costs a mint (though admittedly still a little less than 50 FB scrolls). Particularly if you don't just want a min. level, 5d6, easy to dodge forever fireball. Free scrolls would mean Hello I got a backpack full of Maximized Empowered Widened Heightened Selective Fireballs at my max CL let's do this.

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It also uses up XP and means that the wizard is a level or two below the non-spellcasters and that the party aren't stymied when a particular spell is needed.
The XP cost is also a balance feature and part of the cost of scrolls. Which does run up just as deceptively quick.
(though among my groups it doesn't really exist, because we don't do XP. The DM simply tells us "you feel stronger" once in a while when appropriate)
  #145  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:11 PM
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I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free.

Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he'd use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities.
Friend of mine noticed that the material components of a Wall of Iron (which is permanent once cast) were dwarfed by the sale price of the amount of swords you could make with the metal. Make a few skeletons/constructs/golems to tirelessly bang out swords forever and you've got infinite money on one sixth level spell a day

He never used that silliness in game himself, but we did meet an NPC who had flooded and crashed the local weapons market once .
  #146  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:23 PM
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Unless I'm mistaken, zero level spells count as level 0.5 for the purposes of determining the cost of magic items. At least in the current rules, anyway - perhaps that's a fix they put in to prevent that kind of rules abuse.
Very possibly that's the current rules. Most of the people I know play either 3.0 or 3.5 or a mashup (or they shift to Pathfinder). And I've never checked his math, but he's usually pretty accurate.
  #147  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:29 PM
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He never used that silliness in game himself, but we did meet an NPC who had flooded and crashed the local weapons market once .
Was he smart enough to then start selling wands of dispel magic?
  #148  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:36 PM
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Was he smart enough to then start selling wands of dispel magic?
Doesn't work - Wall of Iron makes real iron (Duration: instantaneous), unlike Major Creation and similar spells.
  #149  
Old 04-25-2014, 03:01 PM
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You don't need undead smiths, either: Just use a Fabricate spell on the wall.
  #150  
Old 04-26-2014, 02:44 AM
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Doesn't work - Wall of Iron makes real iron (Duration: instantaneous), unlike Major Creation and similar spells.
However, Pathfinder certainly eliminates this wizard wheeze:

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Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold.
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