Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:28 AM
MaxTheVool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 11,841
Overall, enjoyed it a lot, satisfying conclusion.

Things I liked:
-Time travel heist
-Elegaic beginning
-Acting and humor (as usual)
-Satisfying overall arcs, many of them years in the making
-Clint-and-Nat having the most backwards-motivated cliff edge fight ever. Hilarious yet also super touching.

Things I didn't like:
-Women-team-up scene. Granted, as a man, I risk coming off like one of those guys who hated the new Ghostbusters remake. And I don't think it's that at all. I just didn't make any sense at all. How did all those women gather in the middle of an enormous battle at the same moment? Why wouldn't any male heroes help? I'm very curious to hear what women viewers an fans thought of the scene.
-Comically variable power level for various characters, particularly Thanos and Captain Marvel. So she can fly all the way through a spaceship, but still loses to him in a punching match? And Thanos is always just strong enough to barely beat whoever he's fighting, no matter who it is?
-Big battle scene at the end was fun, but even more of an overstuffed mess than normal. Particularly lots of the stuff with Cap and Thor and hammer and axe and shield, I just couldn't keep track of what was happening. Also it took me forever to realize that the female Iron Man was Pepper. Also, literally no important character was injured in the massive war? Seems like a few of the c-listers (bucky or valkyrie or wasp or something) could have died to make it all feel more real and add stakes.
-How did Tony steal all 6 stones, and how did he use them? I would have loved to find out that Dr. Strange had told him "hey, when you build an infinity gauntlet, make sure to add in a little nanotech back door that lets you steal all the functionality onto your glove" or something. But without that, it just seems a bit out of nowhere that he was able to first pull of some insane pickpocketing and then use them without any prep.
-Related, I felt like there wasn't much payoff for the whole business with Stark and Strange and one chance in 14 million from the previous movie. So... what would have happened if Strange hadn't given up the time stone. Still no snap, right?


Random questions:
-Does anyone remember what happened to Cap's original vibranium shield? Is it either the one that got shredded while fighting Thanos or the one he gives to Sam at the end?
-I'm skeptical of Sam as the new Cap. The character is fine, but has never struck me as sufficiently compelling to really anchor a franchise. But, Marvel has surprised me before, so...
-Interesting that two of the characters who we thought were DEFINITELY dead after Infinity War (Loki and Gamora) are, in some sense, "back".
-So I guess a Black Widow standalone movie will have to be a prequel now?
-Not sure how I feel about lack of a post-credits scene. On the one hand, I like the symbolism of "this is the end of a story, we have nothing left to tease". On the other hand, they had to know that everyone is hanging around, bladders full, waiting, and will feel a bit let down. They easily could have had something simple and sweet and epilogue-ish. Maybe Cap and Peggy dancing could have been post-credits?
-At Tony's funeral, as the camera panned over everyone, near the back of the crowd was a young (teenage?) man with puffy white hair. Who was that? Someone I should have recognized?
-I'll have to watch on Netflix or the equivalent at some point with subtitles on, I felt like there were a fair number of jokes that I missed due to crowd noise and muffled dialog.
__________________
This post is merely corroborative detail, intended to add artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative
  #52  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:59 AM
magnusblitz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,308
I liked it, but less than Infinity War. Whereas that one felt very well plotted and paced, this one a bit less so. But it definitely had a lot of great moments - even if some were arguably a bit too fan-wanky, it's also the culmination of 20+ movies so I think it gets some extra leeway in that regard. I admittedly teared up during Tony's funeral. Really the end of an era.

Killing off Thanos and doing a 'time heist' (we knew time travel would be involved, but didn't expect this way!) were surprises. But I also think it undermined things a wee bit... I didn't feel like 2014 Thanos had the same emotional heft to him, and he just felt like a generic big bad in this one. Part of me wonders what it would've been to see a movie where Thanos was left alive at the beginning, maybe focus on the repercussions more, maybe even have people wondered if Thanos was right or not. Heck you could even have Thanos himself change his mind at the end. I dunno. As awesome as the 'everyone comes back' scene was, I think I've seen enough giant army battles in superhero movies to tide me over for a long while.

I was definitely surprised by how little Captain Marvel was involved in the movie. It almost felt to me like the script was done before and then the higher-ups said "hey we're gonna do a Captain Marvel movie before Endgame, fit her in."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
-Women-team-up scene. Granted, as a man, I risk coming off like one of those guys who hated the new Ghostbusters remake. And I don't think it's that at all. I just didn't make any sense at all. How did all those women gather in the middle of an enormous battle at the same moment? Why wouldn't any male heroes help? I'm very curious to hear what women viewers an fans thought of the scene.
Yeah, I'm always hesitant to comment on stuff like this because I fear coming off as a misogynist (or invite the inevitable "it's not for you!", but I thought that scene was eye-rolling. As you said, it didn't make sense in terms of the battle (as they'd likely all be off with their own groups). Felt like pandering to me.

Quote:
I'm skeptical of Sam as the new Cap. The character is fine, but has never struck me as sufficiently compelling to really anchor a franchise.
Kinda saw it coming because it happened in the comics, but Falcon is much more an established character and it worked quite well. Here, I agree, MCU Falcon is kinda forgettable. I think they really needed one more Avengers movie after Age of Ultron and before Civil War to give Falcon, Scarlet Witch and Vision time to shine.

Quote:
-At Tony's funeral, as the camera panned over everyone, near the back of the crowd was a young (teenage?) man with puffy white hair. Who was that? Someone I should have recognized?
Assuming we're thinking of the same person, it's the kid from Iron Man 3.
  #53  
Old 04-27-2019, 01:12 AM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 11,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sensitive View Post
Vision is permadead too.

And there's an alternate timeline Loki out there with a tesseract that's just perfect for a streaming series.
How did they get the tesseract back from escaped Loki? He poofed off and I didn't see how they got the stone once that happened.

I think we'll see Vision and Loki again. Heck - I think we'll see them all. We get Gamora back through shenanigans. No reason more shenanigans can't come into play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
Things I didn't like:
-Women-team-up scene. Granted, as a man, I risk coming off like one of those guys who hated the new Ghostbusters remake. And I don't think it's that at all. I just didn't make any sense at all. How did all those women gather in the middle of an enormous battle at the same moment? Why wouldn't any male heroes help? I'm very curious to hear what women viewers an fans thought of the scene.
I read some of the criticisms of this moment before I saw the movie and took it as whining. Once I saw it though, I have to agree. It felt forced. Having strong women in the fight was enough of a statement.

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 04-27-2019 at 01:13 AM.
  #54  
Old 04-27-2019, 02:01 AM
Pork Rind's Avatar
Pork Rind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 2,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
How did they get the tesseract back from escaped Loki? He poofed off and I didn't see how they got the stone once that happened.
That's when they decided to use their remaining 'return' particle to go even farther back, this time to the 70's. They got the tesseract and more Pym particles all at once.
  #55  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:53 AM
Omniscient is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 17,318
Just got back from a late showing. Still processing and I definitely have some mixed feelings on it. My one impression that I formed during act two...this was basically the Seinfeld Finale in capes and tights.

Broadly speaking I think Marvel is doing a little too much fan service and they are overdoing it with the silly jokiness of these movies. But that said, I still had fun and there were some terrific moments. I don’t think this will be in my top 5 of MCU films, maybe not top 10. IW was certainly a better movie in most regards.

Will probably be back with more specific thoughts after I get a nights sleep.
  #56  
Old 04-27-2019, 04:07 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
Overall, enjoyed it a lot, satisfying conclusion.

Things I liked:
-Time travel heist
-Elegaic beginning
-Acting and humor (as usual)
-Satisfying overall arcs, many of them years in the making
-Clint-and-Nat having the most backwards-motivated cliff edge fight ever. Hilarious yet also super touching.
+1
Absense of brooding Cap. It worked well in Winter Soldier. Not elsewhere.


Quote:
Things I didn't like:
-Women-team-up scene. Granted, as a man, I risk coming off like one of those guys who hated the new Ghostbusters remake.
Hating the new Ghostbusters film is what normal well adjusted people do. It sucked and despite having a steller cast. An accomplishment on it own

Quote:
And I don't think it's that at all. I just didn't make any sense at all. How did all those women gather in the middle of an enormous battle at the same moment? Why wouldn't any male heroes help? I'm very curious to hear what women viewers an fans thought of the scene.
It was gratuitious. And clearly pandering. Don't get me wrong, I like most of the characters, but that was telegraphed and forced wokeness.

Quote:
-Comically variable power level for various characters, particularly Thanos and Captain Marvel. So she can fly all the way through a spaceship, but still loses to him in a punching match? And Thanos is always just strong enough to barely beat whoever he's fighting, no matter who it is?
I think the issue was that the first punch, Danvers was expecting and braced herself. She did not see the second punch, and how more power there was.

Quote:
-Big battle scene at the end was fun, but even more of an overstuffed mess than normal. Particularly lots of the stuff with Cap and Thor and hammer and axe and shield, I just couldn't keep track of what was happening. Also it took me forever to realize that the female Iron Man was Pepper. Also, literally no important character was injured in the massive war? Seems like a few of the c-listers (bucky or valkyrie or wasp or something) could have died to make it all feel more real and add stakes.
Agreed about being difficult to follow. But the three main Avengers fights with Thanos were quite clear. Wish some second line characters had bought it though.

Quote:
-How did Tony steal all 6 stones, and how did he use them? I would have loved to find out that Dr. Strange had told him "hey, when you build an infinity gauntlet, make sure to add in a little nanotech back door that lets you steal all the functionality onto your glove" or something. But without that, it just seems a bit out of nowhere that he was able to first pull of some insane pickpocketing and then use them without any prep.
Tony made the second guantlet, the one Bruce used for the unsnappening. Stands to reason he made a second one and or transferred some of its tech to his standard glove. He was seen trying to remove the gauntlet from Thanos. We saw the stones are just set in it, nothingelse is holding them in, besides gravity and friction. No doubt Tony's version had the slots come in with their own magnetism, which he triggered.

Quote:
-Related, I felt like there wasn't much payoff for the whole business with Stark and Strange and one chance in 14 million from the previous movie. So... what would have happened if Strange hadn't given up the time stone. Still no snap, right?
From what I understood, Sherlock no 1 did not see just one senario where they "won", he saw millions until they won one. Guessing he realised that keeping the stones away from Thanos would be irrelevant. Remember during the battle, he is hokding back a tidal wave and suddenly a look of realization comes into his head, and he signals to Sherlock No 2 that **this is the timeline he was talking about**.

Quote:
Random questions:
-Does anyone remember what happened to Cap's original vibranium shield? Is it either the one that got shredded while fighting Thanos or the one he gives to Sam at the end?
Neither. That shield was damaged in his defeat of Tony in Civil War.

Quote:
-I'm skeptical of Sam as the new Cap. The character is fine, but has never struck me as sufficiently compelling to really anchor a franchise. But, Marvel has surprised me before, so...
He is getting the shield and the responsibillity. Not the actual title. They had the pym particles, the quantum generator. If they really need Cap back, they can just go and get him from 1948.

Quote:
-Interesting that two of the characters who we thought were DEFINITELY dead after Infinity War (Loki and Gamora) are, in some sense, "back".
Yup.

Quote:
-So I guess a Black Widow standalone movie will have to be a prequel now?
Or cancelled, hopefully.

Quote:
-Not sure how I feel about lack of a post-credits scene. On the one hand, I like the symbolism of "this is the end of a story, we have nothing left to tease". On the other hand, they had to know that everyone is hanging around, bladders full, waiting, and will feel a bit let down. They easily could have had something simple and sweet and epilogue-ish. Maybe Cap and Peggy dancing could have been post-credits?
No problem. Most films, as the credit rolls, sees people typing "does xyz have a post credits scene"into their smartphones anyway.

Quote:
-At Tony's funeral, as the camera panned over everyone, near the back of the crowd was a young (teenage?) man with puffy white hair. Who was that? Someone I should have recognized?
Kid from IronMan3 was there. The only one with puffy white hair were Dr and Mrs Pym. Cannot recall any young man with that description.

Quote:
-I'll have to watch on Netflix or the equivalent at some point with subtitles on, I felt like there were a fair number of jokes that I missed due to crowd noise and muffled dialog.
Marvel films are always best in rewatch.

Last edited by AK84; 04-27-2019 at 04:11 AM.
  #57  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:10 AM
GuanoLad's Avatar
GuanoLad is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Where the wild roses grow
Posts: 24,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
It was gratuitious. And clearly pandering.
No more than a hundred other moments in the rest of the MCU movies. I liked it, I didn't care if it was forced or over-the-top. It's a comic book film, it's what they do.
  #58  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:22 AM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,248
I couldn't disagree more with those poo-poo-ing the all women fighting force coming together bit.

Pandering? I don't go that far. Giving the audience what it wants is more like it; call that pandering if you must. Listen, in this day and age its a well put thoughtful message, not just for young women, but for everyone and when it occurred in the movie, I recognized it immediately for what it was and smiled broadly. I loved it. As for why would they all happen to come together in the middle of a gigantic, epic battle? Comic books, that's why. This movie featured Quantum zones, time travel, aliens, Norse gods, talking raccoons and trees, and about a million other impossible things so I can look past a little logistical issue as it relates to unit cohesion.
  #59  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:28 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool
-Related, I felt like there wasn't much payoff for the whole business with Stark and Strange and one chance in 14 million from the previous movie. So... what would have happened if Strange hadn't given up the time stone. Still no snap, right?
My headcanon — which I admit I can’t back up, except to say that AFAICT it fits, and that I can’t readily come up with anything else — is, well, remember Doc’s best trick from his own movie? You know, the bit where he said he’d come to bargain, and Dormammu killed him, and time looped back to Doc saying he’d come to bargain, and then an iffy Dormammu killed him again, and then time looped back around, and then a genuinely-freaked-out Dormammu asked for exposition before killing Doc over and over and over before giving up his plans to conquer Earth? Since it’s better to rule over his own realm than keep doing this until Doc’s willpower gives out, Dormammu’s willpower gave out first?

But suppose that Thanos is never going to give up; that, in every scanned future, his willpower is unrelenting. So suppose, too, that Doc had the ‘looping’ defense up in INFINITY WAR (because, well, why wouldn’t he?), which would explain why Doc is so breezily confident that Ebony Maw won’t get the Stone off him (since Doc says Maw flatly can’t break the spell on it, and Maw says he can always just take the Stone off Doc’s dead body, and then that just sort of — doesn’t happen). But while Doc’s will maybe dwarfs Maw’s, there’s ultimately no chance of outlasting Thanos.

That’s a lot of supposing, but plug it all in and see if it works.
  #60  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:57 AM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
No more than a hundred other moments in the rest of the MCU movies. I liked it, I didn't care if it was forced or over-the-top. It's a comic book film, it's what they do.
...yep. No more forced than this scene. Look! Nearly all men! Pandering!

Its taken this long for there even to be enough women heroes to be able to have that many heroes onscreen a the same time. If you are asking the question "why are all the female heroes in one place at one time" did you happen to notice in how many Marvel movies the team-ups were almost exclusively men? That scene got a big "hell yeah!" out of me.
  #61  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:24 AM
FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,630
I loved it, it was an excellent way to end the story arc. The few criticisms I have were already mentioned. I thought that there wasn’t enough Captain Marvel. From what we had already seen, she should have been able to wipe the floor with Thanos. I do have a few questions, one of which only came up after reading this thread.

I don’t remember an all women scene with the gauntlet being carried to Ant Man’s van. I thought that Black Panther and Spiderman participated in that part as well.

Did Cap travel back through time, essentially waiting the 70 years or so until he caught up with the timeline, or did he spend maybe 50 years or so in an alternate timeline and then time travel back the last 20 years or so?

What happened to Gamora from the alternate timeline? Did she stay in the new timeline or disappear?
  #62  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:30 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 22,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
I thought it was in Norway.
IMDB says it's on the coast of Scotland.
  #63  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:53 AM
brossa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
IMDB says it's on the coast of Scotland.
The place where it was filmed may have been Scotland, but the road sign as Hulk and Rocket drive into New Asgard says "Velkommen til Tønsberg". Tønsberg is an actual city, purportedly the oldest in Norway. The real Tønsberg is bigger than the fishing village seen in the movie, though.
  #64  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:58 AM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
What happened to Gamora from the alternate timeline? Did she stay in the new timeline or disappear?
Unclear because not shown. Depends on how Tony did his snap/wish: if "dust everyone who came with Thanos", she's gone. If "dust all of Thanos' allies", she could be OK.

But I wonder if they were dusted (which is of course what they showed) or somehow put back in their timeline? I realize all time travel is impossible to make consistent, but if that was the Thanos from the main MCU timeline, then he's gone and unable to do the original snap and paradox.

So I guess what this likely means is at least one timeline was saved from having Thanos snap away half of all life.
  #65  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:59 AM
brossa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,101
(missed edit window) The scenes were filmed in St. Abbs, Scotland.
  #66  
Old 04-27-2019, 08:57 AM
Sam Lowry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
My headcanon — which I admit I can’t back up, except to say that AFAICT it fits, and that I can’t readily come up with anything else — is, well, remember Doc’s best trick from his own movie? You know, the bit where he said he’d come to bargain, and Dormammu killed him, and time looped back to Doc saying he’d come to bargain, and then an iffy Dormammu killed him again, and then time looped back around, and then a genuinely-freaked-out Dormammu asked for exposition before killing Doc over and over and over before giving up his plans to conquer Earth? Since it’s better to rule over his own realm than keep doing this until Doc’s willpower gives out, Dormammu’s willpower gave out first?

But suppose that Thanos is never going to give up; that, in every scanned future, his willpower is unrelenting. So suppose, too, that Doc had the ‘looping’ defense up in INFINITY WAR (because, well, why wouldn’t he?), which would explain why Doc is so breezily confident that Ebony Maw won’t get the Stone off him (since Doc says Maw flatly can’t break the spell on it, and Maw says he can always just take the Stone off Doc’s dead body, and then that just sort of — doesn’t happen). But while Doc’s will maybe dwarfs Maw’s, there’s ultimately no chance of outlasting Thanos.

That’s a lot of supposing, but plug it all in and see if it works.
That's basically what I figured. That Doctor Strange saw 14 million ways this could go (or whatever he said in Infinity War) and that Thanos wins in all but one, and in the won where he loses he gets the stones, does the snap, but then is defeated when Tony sacrifices himself. But obviously no one would like to hear that at the time in Infinity War, and also he knows if he tells Tony he has to sacrifice himself then it would mess things up. The nods Tony and Strange do at some point in the battle is so Strange can tell Tony that this is the winning timeline so far.

I am very curious to see how things go in the MCU after this. The Spider-man movie will have to address it, since half of Peter's old classmates will be now 5 years older than him, and there would have to be a lot of other repercussions out in the world. But the MCU only had the repercussions of aliens invading and demolishing a big chunk of New York affect movies to a certain extent, so I'll be okay if they don't go super deep into the results of the reversal of the snapture, they just need to address it to some extent.
  #67  
Old 04-27-2019, 09:40 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,046
Peters surviving classmates will be long graduated by then.
  #68  
Old 04-27-2019, 09:53 AM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 60,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
New Asgard is on the coast of Scotland? Dear Lord, we're gonna cross Asgardians with Scots. What's THAT going to bring?
12 year old single barrel Scotch mead.
  #69  
Old 04-27-2019, 09:59 AM
bienville is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Marvel films are always best in rewatch.
Ummm... yeah, because on a rewatch you catch things like:
HULK EATING A PINT OF BEN & JERRY'S HULKA-HULKA BURNING FUDGE!!!!!!!!!!!


I did go in wanting more Captain Marvel and can't say I'm not a little disappointed that there wasn't more of her but... seeing how the story of this film functions as a wrapping up of the overall story we've been watching the familiar characters arc through for years, I think that it was a better choice to have her gone for most of the movie and to allow the big hero moments to go to the characters we're saying goodbye to.

I do think her fights with Thanos were the worst kind of "variable powers depending on what the plot needs". One thing I'll pay attention to on my third viewing: Thanos' use of his weapon in his fights with Carol.

Thanos has that airplane propeller-looking weapon that he uses. This is, I believe, the first time we've seen it. He really didn't need any other weapon in Infinity War because at the start of the film he already has the Gauntlet AND the Power Stone (and very soon has the Space Stone as well).

His airplane propeller weapon is clearly a very powerful weapon, perhaps even imbued with some comic book "space magic". Even if it's not a "magic" weapon, it is still a very powerful weapon that he is extremely skilled at using. When I watch it again, I'll pay more attention to how much trouble he's giving Carol specifically through the use of his weapon.

(Of course, if the weapon allows him to fend off Danvers then it certainly should have allowed him to kill Cap and Tony and maybe Thor.)

The final time Carol faces him, he doesn't have the weapon.
He does have the Stark Gauntlet but she is preventing him from closing his fist or snapping. Without a weapon, he seems unable to overpower her. We even get that beautiful headbutt that doesn't even mess Carol's hair (and the look on her face is priceless!). Thanos has to remove the Power Stone from the Gauntlet and punch her with the Stone (which should kill anyone but even that only tosses her across the field leaving her temporarily concussed.



On the topic of Tony "pick-pocketing" the stones...
We've known the MCU Tony Stark for 11 years. This version of the character has been in 10 films. We the audience know this guy. I really don't think it even needs to count as a "fan wank" to suggest that since he *designed the new Gauntlet with his own tech* that he would have had a safeguard allowing him to recall the stones from one piece of Stark tech to another piece of Stark tech.
If they had included a line of dialog "And I've programmed the Stark Gauntlet to allow me to recall the stones as needed" it would have be a horribly clunky bit of forced foreshadowing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
Seems like a few of the c-listers (bucky or valkyrie or wasp or something) could have died to make it all feel more real and add stakes.
Although the idea of killing off a few c-listers isn't a bad idea, I can't get behind your list.

Hope/Wasp very well may be my current favorite MCU character and she's barely had a chance to come into herself yet. I have been loving Paul Rudd as Ant-Man but the character doesn't have the superhero gravitas to really go much further. Wasp is far more interesting because she actually understands the science of the tech she is using, is capable of making advancements, and (most interesting of all) hasn't really shown much interest in being a "good guy" yet. In the first movie, she participates specifically in a plot to bring down a dangerous man who she and her father have reason to view as "a monster of our own making". In the second film, she's really only serving her own interests. There's no greater good, she's really not a hero. So, with as much as I already love the character, I can't wait to see her develop even further.

Valkyrie immediately became a major fan favorite.
Her place at the end of Endgame seems to me to indicate that the Studio doesn't quite have an idea yet as to what to do with her next but they know that fans love her. When Thor left her on Earth it definitely felt to me like "Stick a pin in this one, we'll come back to her later." Maybe they'll get distracted and end up letting the character fall by the wayside but, for now, I think they're very aware of how much fans love her.

Bucky is the one who I don't really see having much of a future in the MCU.
Killing him in battle, however, would have significantly hurt Cap's happy ending.


Characters who I think are known and loved enough to have an effective noble death scene but, commercially speaking, wouldn't be wasted here would be:
*) M'Baku
*) Rhodey (but maybe too much of a toll on the "Iron Man Family" given the loss of Tony).
*) For me personally, I could say Scott Lang. Again, I have love Paul Rudd and the character of Scott so far but that would have just made his death that much more emotional. And, although I have loved his character so far, I just don't think he has much to offer going forward. I would much rather see a solo Wasp movie than to continue on with Scott.
*) Wanda. Commercially speaking, I think she has potential going forward but I just think the writers and higher-ups haven't figured out yet who she is or what they want to do with her. We met her four years ago, have seen her in four films, and I still don't feel much of a connection with her.
__________________
I'm going to start my own messageboard! With Blackjack! And Hookers! In fact, FORGET the messageboard!
  #70  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:03 AM
RikWriter is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: central Florida
Posts: 6,692
They weren't going to kill off anyone else because it would have taken the focus off Tony's death, thematically.
  #71  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:13 AM
BeepKillBeep is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,446
I would give it a 3000 out of 10. It greatly exceeded my extremely high expectations.
  #72  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:24 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 22,584
I'd also point out from that list that Wanda and Bucky are also going to be in featured series on Disney+ when it comes out later this year. So those guys are staying.

So far I think the announced ones are:

WandaVision - which implies Vision's coming back somehow
Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Loki
What If?
Hawkeye

So there'll be more chance to get to know them.
  #73  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:29 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 24,170
You know what the end battle "gauntlet relay race' felt like to me? Like the closing number of an all-star benefit concert, when all the artists come onstage for one last massive jam session/singalong, with everyone stepping forward in turn to do a solo.
"Let's hear it for Spider-Man!"
"Give it up for Black Panther!"
"And now, the one, the only... Iron Man!"
  #74  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:31 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
You know what the end battle "gauntlet relay race' felt like to me? Like the closing number of an all-star benefit concert, when all the artists come onstage for one last massive jam session/singalong, with everyone stepping forward in turn to do a solo.
"Let's hear it for Spider-Man!"
"Give it up for Black Panther!"
"And now, the one, the only... Iron Man!"
That....is a very apt description.
I agree, it was better they concentrated on the “old” Avengers. It was quite a salute to a decade of the MCU.
  #75  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:34 AM
Sam Lowry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Peters surviving classmates will be long graduated by then.
Right, it would be super weird for Peter to go back to school in what feels like no time has passed, but presumably the world will be different in 2024, and to have half of his classmates gone, but the other half of his class being 17 year olds who survived the snap and have lived through five years of grief and survivor's guilt. And half of his teachers would have a really hard time teaching at first, since they survived the snap and already mourned half of their students and now they are back like nothing happened.

I'm not expecting Spider-man Far From Home or the rest of the Marvel movies to be like The Leftovers and everyone processing the crazy grief and confusion from these events, but I am curious how it is handled.
  #76  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:39 AM
Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 22,584
Not to mention can you imagine the fundamentalists in the MCU?

The snap happens. A big chunk think it's the rapture and they got left behind. Chaos ensues.

Five years later the survivors of the above see the people they'd thought brought to heaven suddenly come back? That'll be a weird scene.

There's not way a significant chuck of the surviving world population doesn't think God is working his mojo here.
  #77  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:15 PM
FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,630
Here’s another interesting question regarding the timeline. With the whole 5 years later thing, does that mean that Infinity Wars happened in 2014 and Endgame in 2019, or is it 2019 and 2024? I assume it’s the former, but what does that do for the timelines of all the other films?
  #78  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:28 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,562
Where did Valkyrie get her pegasus?
  #79  
Old 04-27-2019, 01:30 PM
bienville is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Where did Valkyrie get her pegasus?
All that was available was a horse and she said, “Well, I guess I’m just going to have to wing it.”
__________________
I'm going to start my own messageboard! With Blackjack! And Hookers! In fact, FORGET the messageboard!
  #80  
Old 04-27-2019, 01:38 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 14,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by brossa View Post
The place where it was filmed may have been Scotland, but the road sign as Hulk and Rocket drive into New Asgard says "Velkommen til Tønsberg". Tønsberg is an actual city, purportedly the oldest in Norway. The real Tønsberg is bigger than the fishing village seen in the movie, though.
IIRC, Tonsberg has “appeared” twice before in MCU films:
- In Thor, it was the site of a battle between the Asgardians and the frost giants.
- In Captain America:The First Avenger, it was where the Red Skull found the Tesseract.
  #81  
Old 04-27-2019, 01:47 PM
Mahaloth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 29,495
I am glad I saw it last night. On Yahoo's front page, there are two news stories:

- Explaining Endgame - Banner + Hulk is Professor Hulk

and

- We need to talk about that Black Widow Situation

I mean, come on. Any hinting is spoiler suggesting at least. The Hulk one is a full spoiler.
  #82  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:17 PM
storyteller0910 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New Jersey (it's not as bad as they tell you)
Posts: 4,393
OK. I loved this movie. I loved, loved, loved this movie. It was like they basically made a movie specifically for me. There's just one thing bugging me, but it's bugging me a lot and it's making me enjoy the movie in retrospect less than I want to. Posting it here in the hopes that someone can offer an explanation that makes me feel better about it :-)

Let's talk about Captain America's ending. Midway through the movie, when Banner is talking to the Ancient One, she outlines the rules of time travel in this fiction pretty neatly. You make a change to the past - like taking an infinity stone out of the timeline - and it causes a split in the timeline, with unpredictable results. This is why it was important to return each of the stones to its point of origin when the heist was done. OK, fine. Straightforward, simple, unfussy, and mostly the movie adhered to this.

So let's designate the MCU timeline we've all been watching for fifteen years and call it Timeline Prime. The Avengers return to various points in Timeline Prime and do things that might result in a split to the timeline: take out infinity stones, have interactions with key characters, even drag Thanos five some odd years into the future. But by returning the infinity stones to their points of origins, presumably we are to understand that the Avengers obviated these splits. Thus Timeline Prime remains intact, if a bit twisty, and there are no splits.

But.

At the end of the movie, Cap decides to travel back to 1970 (or whatever year), where I guess he reunites with and marries Peggy Carter and gets his Happily Ever After. Now, according to the rules as I understood them to this point, this should have split the timeline. And if Cap had simply disappeared and never reappeared, Sam Beckett-style, it all would have made sense. Presumably he had his adventures with Peggy or whatever, but that's a different timeline and this is not that story. I would have loved that ending, and you could still have him leave a note and the shield for Sam and gotten the same torch pass with a nice voice over.

But that's not what happened! Instead, Cap appears right here in Timeline Prime as an old man, presumably having lived through all of the events of Timeline Prime as a second Steve Rogers. In order for this to be possible, this would have to mean that Transported Cap took no action that would cause the timeline to split. So he arrived in 1970 (or whenever) knowing that of his three best friends in the world, one will die alone on a planet light years from her home, one will die a young man leaving a wife and daughter behind and bereft, and one is being slowly brainwashed in a foreign land. You're expecting me to believe that the Steve Rogers we have come to know over all of these movies wouldn't have been on the first plane to Russia to try to rescue Bucky? That he'd just have done nothing about all the Hydra agents hanging around his wife's workplace? That he'd not have intervened in a thousand ways, any one of which would have ensured that he'd never again be a part of Timeline Prime? That idea is such a betrayal of the character of Captain America as it's been shown that I can't accept it - and yet I can't find any other explanation for him showing up in Timeline Prime at the end (with Nat and Tony still dead).

Somebody talk me down.
  #83  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:26 PM
DigitalC is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 10,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller0910 View Post

Somebody talk me down.
Maybe he is smart enough to realize he wouldn't be helping them, just splitting the timeline and his friends would still go through all that. It would be a selfish act just to make himself feel better.
  #84  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:27 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,562
It was the most "comic-book-y" of any movie I've ever seen. The MCU has always been good at this, but this took it to another level. Not just the visuals of battles between huge groups of heroes and villains, but the truly wacky story that wasn't outright comedy (like Thor: Ragnarok and GotG) but was still way wackier than any other MCU movie. I loved it!

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 04-27-2019 at 03:29 PM.
  #85  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:37 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
Maybe he is smart enough to realize he wouldn't be helping them, just splitting the timeline and his friends would still go through all that. It would be a selfish act just to make himself feel better.
Selfish? Wouldn’t the most altruistic thing be to split off a new timeline whenever possible, doing your best to set the inhabitants on a path to thrive?
  #86  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:47 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Selfish? Wouldn’t the most altruistic thing be to split off a new timeline whenever possible, doing your best to set the inhabitants on a path to thrive?
Too much timey-wimey stuff. I choose to see it as Cap made all these decisions in various timelines, and we just happened to see the one in which he kept everything secret and lived a quiet life with Peggy.
  #87  
Old 04-27-2019, 04:18 PM
Uniqueorn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 628
Isn't an inverted Moebius strip the same as a Moebius strip? Anyway, everybody knows that this is not how time travel works. It is more of a Klein bottle thing! Apart from that (and too much Hawkey, not enough Captain Marvel), it was very enjoyable.
  #88  
Old 04-27-2019, 04:34 PM
MaxTheVool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 11,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
No problem. Most films, as the credit rolls, sees people typing "does xyz have a post credits scene"into their smartphones anyway.
That's what I usually do... but this time I didn't, because, come on, MARVEL. Ah well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bienville
We've known the MCU Tony Stark for 11 years. This version of the character has been in 10 films. We the audience know this guy. I really don't think it even needs to count as a "fan wank" to suggest that since he *designed the new Gauntlet with his own tech* that he would have had a safeguard allowing him to recall the stones from one piece of Stark tech to another piece of Stark tech.
If they had included a line of dialog "And I've programmed the Stark Gauntlet to allow me to recall the stones as needed" it would have be a horribly clunky bit of forced foreshadowing.
I think there's a middle ground. As it is, this absolutely key, pivotal moment, is still left unclear to us. Did he just manually unfasten them all, one by one? Did he program a backdoor into the glove that Hulk used, just because he's paranoid and clever? Did he very quickly nano-reprogram his own suit for stone-stealing? Seems like that would have been a perfect time for Strange to have given him some foreknowledge, allowing him to perfectly set up all the tech for that precise moment... which would have been the culmination of the 1-in-14-million. As it is, it just felt a bit... weird. For all of his great moments and amazing skills, none that I can recall involved having super-quick pickpocketing fingers.

(Not that I think it ruined the movie, or the moment... but I do think it felt a bit out of left field.)


As for the women-team-up scene, after a few hours of pondering, I've realized how I would do it, which would also solve another minor problem, which is that Thanos's chief minions, who were quite serious mini-bosses in their own right last movie, barely registered.

So one of the (male) minions is fighting one of the female good guys. They trade blows, then he gets the upper hand, and makes a derisive sexist comment, calling her a little girl, or something. Then we do a series of camera cuts all around the battlefield as triumphant music plays, showing all the female heroes kicking ass, ending back at the initial fight, and she responds with a one liner like "I'm not a girl, I'm a woman" (but more funny) and dodges his death blow and chops his ass in half.

Same general celebratory effect, makes way more sense.
__________________
This post is merely corroborative detail, intended to add artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative
  #89  
Old 04-27-2019, 04:36 PM
storyteller0910 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New Jersey (it's not as bad as they tell you)
Posts: 4,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Too much timey-wimey stuff. I choose to see it as Cap made all these decisions in various timelines, and we just happened to see the one in which he kept everything secret and lived a quiet life with Peggy.
I can't accept this, though, because Steve could not have made various decisions in various timelines - there's only one of him, it's just that his own personal timeline has some weird loops in it. If he went back in time and lived a quiet life with Peggy, that's what he did, but he doesn't get to make a bunch of different decisions.

Quote:
Maybe he is smart enough to realize he wouldn't be helping them, just splitting the timeline and his friends would still go through all that. It would be a selfish act just to make himself feel better.
I also don't accept this. So, OK, Steve goes back in time and does a bunch of stuff such that Thanos never gets hold of the Infinity Stones at all. Timeline Prime remains unchanged; Steve Rogers isn't in it after 2024, and Nat and Tony are dead and so on. But now there's also Timeline Beta, in which Nat and Tony are alive and Bucky got some semblance of a normal life and whatever else.

Above all, it just doesn't seem in character for Steve to not try to help. I mean, on the most basic level, his now-wife works for S.H.I.E.L.D. Is he just going to... not tell her that HYDRA is/has infiltrated her workplace? If he tells her, boom, timeline changed, because a Peggy who knows that stuff makes very different, probably pretty significant choices than the Peggy in Timeline Prime. So Steve Rogers doesn't appear at the end of the story in Timeline Prime. But a Steve Rogers who doesn't tell the woman he loves something that important is essentially unrecognizable to me.
  #90  
Old 04-27-2019, 04:54 PM
Half Man Half Wit's Avatar
Half Man Half Wit is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,694
The thing is, there's no timeline in which Steve gets sent back in time and doesn't turn up on the bench. Because in every timeline in which he chooses to intervene, the events leading to him being sent back simply don't happen. Since we are in a timeline in which they did, we know he can't have intervened.
  #91  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:11 PM
Locrian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 4,145
I loved it. I have not seen all of the movies, but this was a great story arc for the Avengers movies.

The only thing I guessed was just after the tease with Tony leaving a message for Avengers/Pepper in the broken helmet. I said, "Ah, shit. He's dead." I was only worried that he'd die before the big battle for some stupid reason. But it was a bitter-sweet end. And I like how Doc Strange KNEW this, but couldn't reveal it and didn't need to.

Only one small downside for me was I was hoping that-- Okay, so you've got this time theft thingy. Some get the stones, some don't. And a few more disintegrated heroes emerge from the zone. Maybe Spidey, War Machine, and Panther. I thought maybe some would return depending on which stone they got. So we would get more screen time with the missing. Then LATER, the rest appear from the portals for the battle.

But I realized that IF they did that, it'd be way too confusing time wise. And it actually was great the way they did it. Apparently, the one plan that worked was getting everyone to that moment when the battle would start. It tricked Thanos & Company, it tricked the Avengers that were setting it up (they had to go through all their loss in order to get everyone there), and it tricked the audience.

It was a very good comic-book style story. And the endings that have some kind of loss seem much more real than, "Hey, we all did it! Let's all return to the Justice League" type endings. It was also a big "thank you" to Robert Downey Jr. His Iron Man/Tony Stark performance is unforgettable.

Can't wait to watch again!
  #92  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:41 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 28,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
He is getting the shield and the responsibillity. Not the actual title. They had the pym particles, the quantum generator. If they really need Cap back, they can just go and get him from 1948.
Practically speaking, we're not going to see the same character again, becuase Chris Evans (and Robert Downey Jr and Chris Hemsworth) are done with these movies. The studio will start over with newer, cheaper, actors and characters as Captain America and Iron Man. (Much as the comic books do, although I'm not a comics reader.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniqueorn View Post
Isn't an inverted Moebius strip the same as a Moebius strip?
I was wondering about that.

As for my opinion, I liked it. Very funny and fun. I went to a showing at 11:15am today (Saturday, April 27) and at about 10:30am, of the twenty screens in the multiplex, nine were showing this movie.
  #93  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:51 PM
FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller0910 View Post
I can't accept this, though, because Steve could not have made various decisions in various timelines - there's only one of him, it's just that his own personal timeline has some weird loops in it. If he went back in time and lived a quiet life with Peggy, that's what he did, but he doesn't get to make a bunch of different decisions.



I also don't accept this. So, OK, Steve goes back in time and does a bunch of stuff such that Thanos never gets hold of the Infinity Stones at all. Timeline Prime remains unchanged; Steve Rogers isn't in it after 2024, and Nat and Tony are dead and so on. But now there's also Timeline Beta, in which Nat and Tony are alive and Bucky got some semblance of a normal life and whatever else.

Above all, it just doesn't seem in character for Steve to not try to help. I mean, on the most basic level, his now-wife works for S.H.I.E.L.D. Is he just going to... not tell her that HYDRA is/has infiltrated her workplace? If he tells her, boom, timeline changed, because a Peggy who knows that stuff makes very different, probably pretty significant choices than the Peggy in Timeline Prime. So Steve Rogers doesn't appear at the end of the story in Timeline Prime. But a Steve Rogers who doesn't tell the woman he loves something that important is essentially unrecognizable to me.
I assume he did help and do all those things, but it only affected his timeline and not the prime timeline. Presumably he tried to help them as well but was unable to due to his not being a time travel master. As for how he appeared in the prime timeline as an old man, presumably he had just one dose of the Pym particles left and used it after Peggy died from natural causes / old age.
  #94  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:54 PM
Mahaloth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 29,495
I just want Thor to join the Guardians of the Galaxy in the next movie.
  #95  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:27 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 14,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
I just want Thor to join the Guardians of the Galaxy in the next movie.
Well, that scene at the end clearly set the stage for it, so maybe they'll get one last film out of Hemsworth as the Dude of Thunder.
  #96  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:30 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,248
I just got back from a second showing. This time I was much more alert and I was actually able to follow the plot -- mostly. I enjoyed all the preamble movies, but I never really put too much study toward what all those stones meant and did and were called and all that shit, so this second, alert, viewing really helped me put some puzzle pieces together. Also on first showing, I had totally missed the Early Bad Nebula disguised as Later Good Nebula thing, so that cleared up some plot points as well.

My only disappointment was that this crowd was so subdued. The humor got the laughs but the hero moments got barely anything. It was kind of weird. I mean I knew it was coming but when Cap is revealed with Mjolnir I actually got a little emotional but no one seemed to want to woo-hoo with me. I guess Saturday matinees are not the time for raucous viewings.
  #97  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:36 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 28,048
I'll bet Chris Hemsworth was happy that he didn't have to do the whole six months in a gym for five hours a day routine to get into prime shape to play a shirtless musclebound superhero.
  #98  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:43 PM
dasmoocher is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
As for how he appeared in the prime timeline as an old man, presumably he had just one dose of the Pym particles left and used it after Peggy died from natural causes / old age.
My impression was that Cap didn't use the Pym particles and just aged naturally, but I could be wrong. Maybe the Super-soldier serum gave him a slower aging process. He just knew where and when to show up. When did Peggy Carter pass away in the original timeline? I vaguely remember a scene where she's old and in bed and talking to the unaged Cap.
  #99  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:43 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 14,640
I realized, as I was driving home after seeing the film, that the secret SHIELD underground bunker at Camp Lehigh, which Steve and Tony infiltrate in 1970, is the same bunker from Winter Soldier, where Steve and Nat encounter the disembodied intelligence of Arnim Zola.
  #100  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:44 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasmoocher View Post
My impression was that Cap didn't use the Pym particles and just aged naturally, but I could be wrong. Maybe the Super-soldier serum gave him a slower aging process. He just knew where and when to show up. When did Peggy Carter pass away in the original timeline? I vaguely remember a scene where she's old and in bed and talking to the unaged Cap.
Do you remember the scene at her funeral, in CIVIL WAR?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017