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Old 04-27-2019, 05:15 PM
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Top 10 Greatest Films According To 358 Directors


http://www.openculture.com/2019/04/t...ilmmakers.html

1. Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu (1953)
= 2. 2001: A Space Odyssey – Stanley Kubrick (1968)
= 2. Citizen Kane – Orson Welles (1941)
4. 8 ½ - Federico Fellini (1963)
5. Taxi Driver – Martin Scorsese (1976)
6. Apocalypse Now – Francis Ford Coppola (1979)
= 7. The Godfather – Francis Ford Coppola (1972)
= 7. Vertigo – Alfred Hitchcock (1958)
9. Mirror – Andrei Tarkovsky (1974)
10. Bicycle Thieves – Vittorio De Sica (1949)
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:17 PM
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So all of the 10 greatest films were all made between 1941 and 1979 and none before and none in the 40 years after?

That doesn't really make sense.
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:19 PM
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duplicate

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Old 04-27-2019, 06:39 PM
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So all of the 10 greatest films were all made between 1941 and 1979 and none before and none in the 40 years after?

That doesn't really make sense.
I agree.

I mean...I can get behind the idea that movies have gotten progressively worse over the years but I cannot think that the only good movies were made prior to 1980.
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:50 PM
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I agree.

I mean...I can get behind the idea that movies have gotten progressively worse over the years but I cannot think that the only good movies were made prior to 1980.
This list isn't saying that only these 10 are good. Or is it? I didn't click the link.
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:59 PM
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This list isn't saying that only these 10 are good. Or is it? I didn't click the link.
It is titled: The Ten Greatest Films of All Time According to 358 Filmmakers

Take that as you will. None on the list were made past the 70s.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:24 PM
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So all of the 10 greatest films were all made between 1941 and 1979 and none before and none in the 40 years after?

That doesn't really make sense.
Well, these were the 10 films that filmmakers were most impressed by.

It may be that, to be really impressed by a film, you have to first see it when you're at the right age or stage in your life, and more recent films didn't have a chance to be encountered by many of those filmmakers when they were at their most impressionable.

Or it may be that that was the time period when the art/craft of filmmaking was ripe for groundbreaking, seminal work. Maybe it's not any harder to make good or even great movies nowadays, but it is harder to make great movies that do something new.

Or it may be that those are the movies that have had time to build up reputations as classics.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:30 PM
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So all of the 10 greatest films were all made between 1941 and 1979 and none before and none in the 40 years after?
Hell, in MY opinion, the ten greatest films were all made BEFORE 1941.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:30 PM
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It is titled: The Ten Greatest Films of All Time According to 358 Filmmakers

Take that as you will. None on the list were made past the 70s.
Yeah, I dont take it to mean #11 and on are all garbage.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:55 PM
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This is a list made published in 2012 of the choices (that were made in 2011) of a group of 358 directors from around the world. These were not people relatively new to directing in 2011 but ones who were well into their careers at the time. Let's say that they were 55 years old on average, which is probably an underestimate for their ages. So they were born in 1956 on average. Note that there is a list at the beginning of some of the directors who were polled: Woody Allen, Nuri Bilge Ceylan, Quentin Tarantino, the Dardenne brothers, Terence Davies, Guillermo del Toro, Martin Scorsese, Olivier Assayas, Michael Mann, Guy Maddin, Francis Ford Coppola, Mike Leigh, and Aki Kaurismδki. Do you find it surprising that the movies that a group of film buffs born around 1956 chose for their favorites were all released between 1941 and 1979?

Incidentally, I collect lists of favorite films. I have gotten many such lists from books, magazines, newspapers, websites, etc. They are extremely varied. Putting them together, it's a total of about ten thousand movies. They come from many times, countries, genres, etc. That's one way to learn about what many people think are the best films. It's not necessary to rely on any one list.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:59 PM
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Should be titled "ten best films that influenced current film makers." It's no surprise really, ask again in 40 years and none of those films will be on the list.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:27 PM
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Current filmmakers? Well, as I said, it was directors who were well into their careers in 2011. A poll of all directors of any age in 2019 would probably produce a top ten list with films that are somewhat more recent on average. How such a list would change in forty years is unknown.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:06 PM
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I prefer lists like the one Quentin Tarantino did listing the best movies made since he became a director.

He picked Battle Royale as the best. I disagree, but he really said he wished he had made that movie and I kind of see how he could feel that way. It could have been his.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:25 PM
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That list could have been titled The 10 most overrated movies in film history and it would have been believable.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:09 PM
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Not all that surprising that these directors would want to let more recent movies prove their quality over time. I'm not sure which older movies would make the list. Birth of a Nation is right out. Maybe Rules of the Game.

I've seen them all except for Tokyo Story, Mirror and The Bicycle Thief (not Bicycle Thieves) all of which are going on my list. Can't argue with any of them.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:21 PM
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That list could have been titled The 10 most overrated movies in film history and it would have been believable.
Yeah, I've seen four of the top 5, and I'm underimpressed by each of them.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:35 PM
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Well, these were the 10 films that filmmakers were most impressed by.
I see that #1, Tokyo Story, which I have never heard of, made the list largely because the director broke cinematic conventions. That also goes for Citizen Kane and 8 1/2. Of course, directors are going to be impressed by different things than the viewing public.

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Yeah, I've seen four of the top 5, and I'm underimpressed by each of them.
I've seen all of them except Tokyo Story and Mirror, and I think they are all great movies. Whether they are the 10 best all time is a different issue.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:20 AM
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...

I've seen them all except for ... The Bicycle Thief (not Bicycle Thieves) .
So, you're not aware of the sequel? Even better than the original - Adam Sandler OWNS that role.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:45 AM
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I haven't seen "Mirror" and I thought "8 1/2" was lame and self-indulgent, but the rest of those movies were pretty good.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:16 AM
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So, you're not aware of the sequel? Even better than the original - Adam Sandler OWNS that role.
Shhh!!! He'll hear you!
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:36 AM
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1. Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu (1953) Never heard of it.
= 2. 2001: A Space Odyssey – Stanley Kubrick (1968) Still haven't been able to stay awake through the whole thing.
= 2. Citizen Kane – Orson Welles (1941) I agree with this one.
4. 8 ½ - Federico Fellini (1963) Nope.
5. Taxi Driver – Martin Scorsese (1976) Barely makes the list of the 10 best Scorsese films
6. Apocalypse Now – Francis Ford Coppola (1979) Nope also.
= 7. The Godfather – Francis Ford Coppola (1972) I agree with this one.
= 7. Vertigo – Alfred Hitchcock (1958) Barely makes the list of the 10 best Hitchcock films.
9. Mirror – Andrei Tarkovsky (1974) Never heard of it.
10. Bicycle Thieves – Vittorio De Sica (1949) What???
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:35 AM
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Well, these were the 10 films that filmmakers were most impressed by.

It may be that, to be really impressed by a film, you have to first see it when you're at the right age or stage in your life, and more recent films didn't have a chance to be encountered by many of those filmmakers when they were at their most impressionable.

Or it may be that that was the time period when the art/craft of filmmaking was ripe for groundbreaking, seminal work. Maybe it's not any harder to make good or even great movies nowadays, but it is harder to make great movies that do something new.

Or it may be that those are the movies that have had time to build up reputations as classics.
I think you're on the right track with these theories. Especially the third idea: a work of art has to stand the test of time before people are ready to declare them great works.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:05 AM
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I'd be more interested in a Straight Dopers' list of the all-time great movies. Mine would include:

My Life as a Dog
The Godfather, Part 2
Boogie Nights
Almost Famous
My Cousin Vinnie
The Nasty Girl
Robocop
Aria
Dr. Death
(Erroll Morris)
Raising Arizona
Broadcast News
Iron Man
Midnight in Paris

Last edited by Horatio Hellpop; 05-04-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:21 AM
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That list could have been titled The 10 most overrated movies in film history and it would have been believable.
I think that would make more sense as well. Whenever I hear an actor or director talking about their favorite movies, a lot of them tend to be much older movies that, IMO, a lot of people wouldn't put at the top of their list. I can't imagine director or actor that puts Citizen Kane or 2001 at the top of their list couldn't find a 'greater' movie than those.
What I think happens, at least in part, is that many of these movies are studied (and with good reason) in film school. After years of dissecting them and appreciating them, they feel much more connected to them than the average movie watcher. Also, especially when it comes to directors, it's more about new and innovative techniques than how good the movie is as a whole.
Orson Wells had a particular way of filming Citizen Kane, Vertigo introduced us to the dolly zoom, 2001 had all the special effects.
Most influential (or most studied in film school) sure, but I wouldn't pick them as the greatest movies ever. In fact, ask 358 actors and you'll probably get different answers.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:22 AM
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MortSahlFan, what point were you trying to make by posting the list in the first post in this thread? Were you trying to say that you agreed with the choices? Were you trying to say that you disagreed with the choices? Did you want to know our choices? What was your point? You've started 39 threads just this year already, most of them about choices in movies and music. What do you want to know? Do you want to know about other lists of great movies? There are hundreds of such lists that can be linked to. Do you want to get us to trash this list (or maybe praise this list)? That seems to be what a lot of us have done. What was your point in posting this list? Please, everyone else, don't try to guess what MortSahlFan meant to do. He/she hasn't posted anything to this thread since the first post. I want to get him/her to tell us what he/she meant in posting this list.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:24 AM
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I'd be more interested in a Straight Dopers' list of the all-time great movies. Mine would include:

My Life as a Dog
The Godfather, Part 2
Boogie Nights
Almost Famous
My Cousin Vinnie
The Nasty Girl
Robocop
Aria
Dr. Death
(Erroll Morris)
Raising Arizona
Broadcast News
Iron Man
Midnight in Paris
Fight Club, Pulp Fiction, The Third Man, Goodfellas, All About Eve...
  #27  
Old 05-04-2019, 12:16 PM
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If you have ever watched the CineFix channel on YouTube you will have heard of Mirror. I have not yet seen it but I want to see it. It is a very deep and layered work of art.
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:41 PM
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If you have ever watched the CineFix channel on YouTube you will have heard of Mirror. I have not yet seen it but I want to see it. It is a very deep and layered work of art.
I really like CineFix. They do a really good job of going far deeper into a movie, or even a specific scene of a specific movie than most other channels. IIRC, they're film students which gives them the ability to do a much better job than, say WatchMojo (which is also good, don't get me wrong).
Checking out their site and youtube channel for a Top 10 movies of all time proves difficult since they tend to break things into very specific categories. However, I did find "our 50 favorite movies of all time". The top 10 being:
10. Flowers of Shanghai, Hou Hsiao-Hsien (1998)
9. Hero, Zhang Yimou (2002)
8. The Conformist, Bernardo Bertolucci (1970)
7. City Lights, Charlie Chaplin (1931)
6. 2001: A Space Odyssey, Stanley Kubrick (1968)
5. Citizen Kane, Orson Welles (1941)
4. The Godfather, Francis Ford Coppola (1972)
3. The Godfather Part II, Francis Ford Coppola (1974)
2. Casablanca, Michael Curtiz (1942)
1. Chinatown, Roman Polanski (1974)

For those of you not familiar with Cinefix, many of their lists contain a lot of foreign (To North America) and/or art house movies. I know it's common, at least for me, to not know a handful of the movies they're discussing in any particular video.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:28 PM
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That list could have been titled The 10 most overrated movies in film history and it would have been believable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Yeah, I've seen four of the top 5, and I'm underimpressed by each of them.
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
1. Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu (1953) Never heard of it.
= 2. 2001: A Space Odyssey – Stanley Kubrick (1968) Still haven't been able to stay awake through the whole thing.
= 2. Citizen Kane – Orson Welles (1941) I agree with this one.
4. 8 ½ - Federico Fellini (1963) Nope.
5. Taxi Driver – Martin Scorsese (1976) Barely makes the list of the 10 best Scorsese films
6. Apocalypse Now – Francis Ford Coppola (1979) Nope also.
= 7. The Godfather – Francis Ford Coppola (1972) I agree with this one.
= 7. Vertigo – Alfred Hitchcock (1958) Barely makes the list of the 10 best Hitchcock films.
9. Mirror – Andrei Tarkovsky (1974) Never heard of it.
10. Bicycle Thieves – Vittorio De Sica (1949) What???
In any discussion of this kind, "overrated" usually means "something a lot of other people like that doesn't appeal to me personally."

Most of the movies listed in the OP are generally acknowledged to be among the greatest movies of all time not just by directors but also by critics as well as the movie going public (at least those who are more than casual movie goers). Maybe they're not in the top 10, but almost any list, from whatever source, will include most of them among the top 50 at least.

Personally, I don't particularly care for 8 1/2. I do think it's self-indulgent, and among Fellini movies I much prefer La Dolce Vida and La Strada. But I wouldn't deny it's a great movie. Among Scorcese movies, I personally enjoy Goodfellas the most, but I think Taxi Driver is a more significant movie.

Last edited by Colibri; 05-04-2019 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:44 PM
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This is the URL for Cinefix's Top 50 Movies of All Time

https://www.listchallenges.com/cinef...es-of-all-time

As I said, there are hundreds of interesting lists of best movies. If you include every list from everybody on the Internet, there are ten of thousands of such lists, at least. You can never, no matter how hard you try, see all movies. You can't even see all interesting movies
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:16 PM
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MortSahlFan, what point were you trying to make by posting the list in the first post in this thread? Were you trying to say that you agreed with the choices? Were you trying to say that you disagreed with the choices? Did you want to know our choices? What was your point? You've started 39 threads just this year already, most of them about choices in movies and music. What do you want to know? Do you want to know about other lists of great movies? There are hundreds of such lists that can be linked to. Do you want to get us to trash this list (or maybe praise this list)? That seems to be what a lot of us have done. What was your point in posting this list? Please, everyone else, don't try to guess what MortSahlFan meant to do. He/she hasn't posted anything to this thread since the first post. I want to get him/her to tell us what he/she meant in posting this list.
Good luck. Do a little searching, and you’ll find a whole army of people named MortSahlFan on message boards, doing the same thing.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:22 PM
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Good luck. Do a little searching, and you’ll find a whole army of people named MortSahlFan on message boards, doing the same thing.
Another internet detective. Call the FBI or Halliburton immediately!
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:55 PM
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Another internet detective. Call the FBI or Halliburton immediately!
It would be better if you would put a little effort into your OPs. Occasionally you will post a few sentences, but all too often they are just a list, a link, or a few words. If you are so interested in these subjects, you might at least give us your own take on them. And you haven't even participated or responded to any posts in this thread until now.
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Old 05-04-2019, 06:27 PM
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For those who haven't heard of/seen Tokyo Story, it is on archive.org.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:54 AM
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I've seen them all except for Tokyo Story, Mirror and The Bicycle Thief (not Bicycle Thieves) all of which are going on my list. Can't argue with any of them.
It is Bicycle Thieves. It's been incorrectly called The Bicycle Thief (which makes more sense, really, in the context of the movie) in the US, but everywhere else in the world knows it and has always known it as Bicycle Thieves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_Thieves

I've seen them all except Mirror and think it's a great list. I don't agree with all the choices but I believe they're all great movies. I understand why those filmmakers would choose those movies.

I'm happy that Tokyo Story came in at number one. Even though it's not as well-known as most of the others, it really does deserve to be there, IMO of course. It's crushingly sad though, devastatingly depressing. Emotionally, it makes everything else look like a Saturday morning cartoon.
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:38 AM
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http://www.openculture.com/2019/04/t...ilmmakers.html

1. Tokyo Story - Yasujiro Ozu (1953)
= 2. 2001: A Space Odyssey – Stanley Kubrick (1968)
= 2. Citizen Kane – Orson Welles (1941)
4. 8 ½ - Federico Fellini (1963)
5. Taxi Driver – Martin Scorsese (1976)
6. Apocalypse Now – Francis Ford Coppola (1979)
= 7. The Godfather – Francis Ford Coppola (1972)
= 7. Vertigo – Alfred Hitchcock (1958)
9. Mirror – Andrei Tarkovsky (1974)
10. Bicycle Thieves – Vittorio De Sica (1949)
1) Haven't heard of it
2a) Eh, it's filmed pretty, but sort of boring/silly.
2b) Good film.
4) Thought it was just softporn?
5) Not a horrible character study, but there are better - more interesting / more meaningful.
6) Boring and way too long to have no real point. The book was a character study, this doesn't even have that. And it is painfully obvious that the director just filmed a bunch of random scenes and cut down to the ones he liked most. That's piss-poor directing in my book, not exquisite.
7a) Not horrible, but has been outdone by later films in the genre.
7b) Haven't seen it.
9) Never heard of it.
10) Never heard of it.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:19 AM
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4) Thought it was just softporn?
Are you maybe thinking of 9 1/2 Weeks?
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:30 PM
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4) Thought it was just softporn?
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Are you maybe thinking of 9 1/2 Weeks?
Yeah, I can hardly think of a more bizarre thing to say about 8 1/2. I have to assume Sage Rat has never seen it and is unfamiliar with Fellini in general.

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1) Haven't heard of it
7b) Haven't seen it.
9) Never heard of it.
10) Never heard of it.
Clearly a cinephile.
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:14 PM
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I'm surprised that filmmakers didn't see fit to include a say, Spielberg film on their list. If the list is admiring the craft of filmmaking as much as the materiel of the movie itself, surely one of his movies should have made this list.
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:57 PM
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Before any of us make any statement about what the directors liked in this poll (which, again, was done in 2011 and published in 2012), it would be a good idea to look at the complete list of the top 100 films as chosen by the directors in the poll. The films in the complete list were made in years up to 2007. Looking at just a small part of the poll is deceptive. That's like looking at the top film in the poll and saying, "Well, I guess you think that all great films were made before 1954." And note that one Spielberg film is in the list. Each of the directors polled had seen thousands of films in their life. Trying to characterize the tastes of these people by just the films in their overall average top ten is ridiculous. Here's the complete list of the top 100:

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-peop...2012/directors
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:34 PM
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It is Bicycle Thieves. It's been incorrectly called The Bicycle Thief (which makes more sense, really, in the context of the movie) in the US, but everywhere else in the world knows it and has always known it as Bicycle Thieves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_Thieves
Ladri di biciclette if you're going to be picky. 1001 movies notes the translation as Bicycle Thieves. All English references to it I've seen in reviews and the like are to The Bicycle Thief, which I suppose it is released under.

I think there was a thread once about mis- and odd translations of movie titles.
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:35 PM
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Are you maybe thinking of 9 1/2 Weeks?
Or maybe the porn version, 8 1/2 inches?
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:44 PM
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Looking at just a small part of the poll is deceptive.
Thanks. It's a very eclectic set of movies, ranging from blockbusters like Jaws to completely obscure art house movies.

There's definitely a lot of movies on that list that I wasn't aware of and would like to see.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
It is Bicycle Thieves. It's been incorrectly called The Bicycle Thief (which makes more sense, really, in the context of the movie) in the US, but everywhere else in the world knows it and has always known it as Bicycle Thieves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_Thieves
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Ladri di biciclette if you're going to be picky. 1001 movies notes the translation as Bicycle Thieves. All English references to it I've seen in reviews and the like are to The Bicycle Thief, which I suppose it is released under.
I believe it was released in the US as The Bicycle Thief. The title Bicycle Thieves is actually kind of a spoiler since

SPOILER:
you hardly see the first bicycle thief, who steals the protagonists bicycle. It isn't until the end that you find out the protagonist himself becomes a bicycle thief in desperation.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:46 AM
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Many posters here are ignoring the context, the time, when these films were made. I have seen them all except for Tokyo Story and can say what they have in common is that for their era they were groundbreaking.

Look what Citizen Kane introduced. Stuff we now take for granted in films. But before CK? Wasn't done.

2001? Sure it can drag, but NOTHING like it had ever been done. Again, we now take for granted things it introduced.

Taxi Driver may not have been pioneering in the sense of cinematic technique, but no film has captured its era any better.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:23 PM
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Look what Citizen Kane introduced. Stuff we now take for granted in films. But before CK? Wasn't done.
From the link: "Ingmar Bergman disliked the film and called it 'a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie has is absolutely unbelievable!'"

Just goes to show even a great director can be a misguided jackass when it comes to assessing the films of other directors.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:54 PM
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For those who haven't heard of/seen Tokyo Story, it is on archive.org.
I'll check it out, but if it takes place in Paris, I'll be plenty pissed!
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:40 PM
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Clearly a cinephile.
In terms of total number of films watched over my lifetime, I'm probably in the top 0.001% of movie watchers and very little of that is popcorn flicks. But I never felt any particular desire to hunt out watch lists or to try and model my opinions on the opinions of professionals or reviewers. I just watched lots of films - enough so that I still ended up watching half of ten films that each independently very few (modern) people have seen.

For some reason, people - even famous people - tend to flock to the person who first did something as an inspiration. And while I appreciate that it takes inspiration to be the first person to do something, rarely is the first person the one who perfected the technique. It's later generations who get things down to a precise art. I'd rather watch those than the earlier iterations.

Similarly, when I look at cave paintings or ancient literature I generally think that they're poorly done, where others marvel at their ancient beauty. To be sure, as an example, it's no fault of our ancestors that they had no understanding of perspective, let alone how to translate it from 3D to 2D in a way that made sense. But, factually, the inability to do perspective is just being a bad artist in modern day (even if you choose to not use it) and you'll learn more about perspective by looking at the works of MC Escher or analyzing stereoscopic images than by spending years and years trying to recreate the lost works of Filippo Brunelleschi or looking at the works of the early Renaissance painters.

By all means, the works that served as the major milestones deserve accolades. But those accolades should be in the form of "historic notability" not "everlasting bestness". No one would hold up the Wright Flyer as the best airplane ever. While impressive for its time, a recreation would be a really crappy airplane and you would do well to avoid flying in it if you don't want to get hurt.

In the technical realm, we're more reasonable about the difference between milestones and quality. In artistry, most people don't separate the two. Personally, I'm more technically minded.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:34 PM
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Many posters here are ignoring the context, the time, when these films were made. I have seen them all except for Tokyo Story and can say what they have in common is that for their era they were groundbreaking.
Well if you are going to talk about groundbreaking then you need to include movies before 1941. For example like the Jazz Singer:
Quote:
The Jazz Singer is a 1927 American musical drama film directed by Alan Crosland. It is the first feature-length motion picture with not only a synchronized recorded music score but also lip-synchronous singing and speech in several isolated sequences. Its release heralded the commercial ascendance of sound films and ended the silent film era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jazz_Singer
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:40 PM
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Well if you are going to talk about groundbreaking then you need to include movies before 1941. For example like the Jazz Singer:
It was technologically groundbreaking. It wasn't groundbreaking in terms of plot, acting, filming techniques, or direction.
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