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  #101  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
deus ex Arya
I so hope this replaces the old version.

Worst battle plan ever.

"Hey, all the zombies are stopped staring at the lit trench"

"Think we should be killing them with flaming arrows or dragon's fire or something?"

"Nah, let's just stare at them back!"

The ridiculousness of nobody of importance dying despite being surrounded by tens of thousands of fast zombies with weapons made me honestly think Bran was gonna flick to the past or some other time travel crap.
  #102  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:51 PM
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Her job was done. Her only goal was to stop the Night King.
No, her mission was never to stop the Night King per se. The reason she came to Westeros was to find the Prince Who Was Promised. She first thought it was Stannis, then Jon Snow. She only wanted to stop the Night King in order to protect Jon Snow.

Melisandre and Beric were the two surprising deaths to me in this episode. I assumed that Melisandre would still want to help Jon Snow take the Iron Throne. So her abandoning her life here doesn't seem to make much sense.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-28-2019 at 10:51 PM.
  #103  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:56 PM
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And BTW, the HBO website gives the title as The Long Night.
So it is. Edited title.
  #104  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:57 PM
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Would it have killed them to have the sun rise toward the end so we could see stuff?
  #105  
Old 04-28-2019, 10:57 PM
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I do appreciate that Arya was the one who killed the night king.
I just watched a YouTube clip with the showrunners and they said they've had Arya killing the NK worked out 3 years ago.

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Arya's ninja move, dropping the knife to her other hand, then stabbing the Night King, made it all worthwhile.
The showrunners also said Arya stabbed the NK in the same location where the Children of the Forest stabbed him with dragonglass to create him, using the Valryian steel to uncreate him.
  #106  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:00 PM
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The only thing I expected but didn't see was any of the lesser White Walkers get taken out by Valerian steel or dragon glass. I guess they really wanted to go with the lost cause until the last moment.
Actually, the Night King and the Walkers employed the most sensible strategy, suggested by someone last week. They all hung back and used the Army of the Dead to breach the walls. They didn't expose themselves until the wights had mostly won.
  #107  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:00 PM
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The showrunners also said Arya stabbed the NK in the same location where the Children of the Forest stabbed him with dragonglass to create him, using the Valryian steel to uncreate him.
I just watched that. The speaker said it had to be Valryian steel to unmake the NK. Which makes little sense to me.
  #108  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:01 PM
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"Brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes".

Anyone else think that "green eyes" might be a misdirect now that everyone will think that green eyes = Cersei?

Is there anyone else in the show with green eyes?
  #109  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:03 PM
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No, her mission was never to stop the Night King per se. The reason she came to Westeros was to find the Prince Who Was Promised. She first thought it was Stannis, then Jon Snow. She only wanted to stop the Night King in order to protect Jon Snow.

Melisandre and Beric were the two surprising deaths to me in this episode. I assumed that Melisandre would still want to help Jon Snow take the Iron Throne. So her abandoning her life here doesn't seem to make much sense.
Jon did tell her he would execute her if she came north again. And you know Jon. So she could wait for that or just go out on her own terms.
  #110  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:19 PM
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I thought I would like this more than I actually did. My complaints about the show has mostly been able the story structure and the lack of good character scenes that the show was so amazing at doing for the first 4 seasons (and occasionally after that). They really lost the ball on subtle, well written, amazing character scenes recently. But they've been good at spectacle. Even as the character and politics and overall story of the slow declined, the big spectacular moments improved. The battle at the wall, hardhome, the battle of the bastards, the Sept of Baelor sequence, the wagon train battle - all the big events were better than ever. So when I heard that they shot one of the biggest battle sequences of all time, and it took like 90 days to shoot, I figured they were going to get that one right, that whatever was missing this season, that was going to be amazing.

But...... meh. I feel bad that I don't like it that much because I know they put a shitload of effort into it. But for a well-made, very expensive, very difficult battle scene, there were surprisingly few iconic moments or great shots or interesting battle tactics or any surprises of any sort.

It was pretty much paint by numbers, exactly what you'd expect, even fewer twists and turns that you would expect. I thought we'd get a cool scene of someone we know being a part of the army of the dead, or significant character deaths that weren't heroically perfect and telegraphed, or some sort of surprise, or something interesting, or someone coming up with a unique and interesting way to kill the night king, or Bran contributing in some unexpected way, or... something more than we got.

Bran, with all his pivotal importance as the three eyed raven, millenia long rival of the night king, didn't actually do anything at any point besides be bait, did he? He didn't warg into a dragon or a person or show us some sort of unexpected three eyed raven power or even serve some pivotal reconnaissance role.

The whole first hour had our heroes feeling like, safe, immortals surrounded by red shirts. They would absolutely swarm them over and over again with danger, situations they couldn't possibly survive... and then we'd go to another scene, and then back, and oh look, all our important characters survived. It made the battle feel safe and boring. Nothing was at stake. You knew how this was going to go. There was no chance of a big surprise, like the Night King winning, or having one of our important characters die when even the smaller ones are immune to danger.

But only a couple of our heroes die. They die in the most heroic, relevant, telegraphed, predictable, perfect ways. The Night King loses because of a predictable case of being stabbed to death. Nothing really changes or shakes up the game or unexpected happens. There was no mass slaughter of beloved characters. No one even got an ugly, unheroic, unexpected death.

To give a counter-example, in the movie Serenity:
SPOILER:
Wash was killed suddenly, without fanfare. Book had already died. Kaylee appeared to be fatally wounded. I'm sure the doctor would save her, except woops, the doctor just got poisoned and probably fatally wounded too. Firefly was only around for 13 episodes, and yet created some of the most memorable, beloved characters of all time. We loved those characters. When I sincerely thought that they were all going to die here, that this was the end of our beloved characters, I felt sick to my stomach, just watching their final moments, and possibly the failure of their mission. It was one of my most memorable movie experiences. The stakes felt real. It didn't feel like the day would be saved. We were just going to lose characters we loved, and they might fail.


... On the contrary, it never felt like the characters in this episode were ever in danger, or that the outcome was ever in doubt. The dramatic tension wasn't there. The feeling of being punched in the gut wasn't there. I wasn't invested, I was bored for most of it. Even though it had been created by an obviously huge amount of work, and it *should've* been really compelling, it just wasn't.
  #111  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:20 PM
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Jon did tell her he would execute her if she came north again. And you know Jon. So she could wait for that or just go out on her own terms.
Jon's not Robb, or Danaerys. He wouldn't have executed her.
  #112  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:27 PM
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Not afraid to admit that i teared up when Lady Mormont died taking down the giant (was that Wun Wun? Do we know?). Hard. Core.
The picture was so dark, I thought it was Arya.
  #113  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:31 PM
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Well, that was dark and it looked like white bits of fire extinguisher goop were sprayed everywhere just to ensure zero visibility. I also had to watch Arya vs NK three times to see whose hand stabbed NK.

I think the producers are watching uncompressed video on state of the art monitors. My TV is more than 10 years old and my Roku box is streaming video over wifi. They should have taken into account the capabilities of an average consumer TV setup.
  #114  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:31 PM
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I wasn't invested, I was bored for most of it. Even though it had been created by an obviously huge amount of work, and it *should've* been really compelling, it just wasn't.
I have to say, once it became obvious about an hour through that the only possible way to resolve the battle and still have three episodes left to go was to kill the Night King and destroy the whole army in one fell swoop I kept thinking "Get on with it, willya."
  #115  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:34 PM
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I didn't see these after the wight army was destroyed but assume their deaths would have been more prominent if they died.

...

Gilly/Little Sam
I just rewatched one of the final scenes and they are in the crypt with the others who survived there.
  #116  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:37 PM
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Really disappointing episode
1) The Northmen's plan was really stupid starting with the suicide charge of the Dothraki, waiting around staring at white walkers at the trench, completely ineffectual use of the dragons except for about 30 seconds, etc. And yes I'm including the White King not using his IceDragon earlier as part of this criticism.
2) Main characters being taken down by multiple zombies but of course surviving it. Really takes me out of the episode.
3) The complaint some raised last week. Hey this guy can raise the dead. Let's hide in the crypts.


Good points - the badass women: Arya and Lady Bear
  #117  
Old 04-28-2019, 11:46 PM
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But what was her job? She lit the Dothraki swords. To no purpose. She lit the wood in the trenches. To no purpose. She told Berin he filled his purpose. So?
The wood in the trenches was a good delaying tactic (why they didn't use dragon fire strafe the wights waiting is another story). But, basically her purpose was to be used to defeat the Night King. She helped the best she could (and tapped all of her power, apparently). Also her pep talk to Arya probably helped, who knows.

But once the Night King was dead there was no purpose to her life anymore. So she let herself die.

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No, her mission was never to stop the Night King per se. The reason she came to Westeros was to find the Prince Who Was Promised. She first thought it was Stannis, then Jon Snow. She only wanted to stop the Night King in order to protect Jon Snow.
What do you think the Prince was Promised For? "The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors" - to defeat those terrors.
  #118  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:02 AM
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But, basically her purpose was to be used to defeat the Night King.

But once the Night King was dead there was no purpose to her life anymore. So she let herself die.

What do you think the Prince was Promised For? "The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors" - to defeat those terrors.
Absolutely not. She had no idea the Night King even existed when she came from Essos to help Stannis. Defeating the Night King was just something that became necessary after the fact.
  #119  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:07 AM
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Incidentally, when Melisandre met Danaerys she tried to suggest that Danaerys might be the "Prince Was Promised." Missandei explains that in High Valyrian the word used is gender neutral, so it can mean "prince" or "princess." What we've just seen pretty strongly suggests that it's Arya and not Jon who is the Prince(ss) Who Was Promised. But then what is Jon's purpose in all this?
  #120  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:07 AM
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Absolutely not. She had no idea the Night King even existed when she came from Essos to help Stannis. Defeating the Night King was just something that became necessary after the fact.
Not true at all. She knew that the Long Winter was about to come and she needed the champion to defeat it. She doesn't give a damn about Westerosy politics. She does about defeating the darkness.

After you said it yourself, it made no sense to you that she let herself die rather than have Jon take the Iron Throne... unless the Iron Throne didn't matter to her at all except as a way to consolidate the armies of light to use against the armies of darkness.

If you'd like more evidence (because sometimes it's difficult to know what was said in what medium), I'd invite you to the other thread.

Last edited by ISiddiqui; 04-29-2019 at 12:09 AM.
  #121  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:19 AM
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Okay, I think I figured out the off-screen action:

The last time we see Arya, Melisandra tells Arya to kill the Night King ("and blue eyes"). Arya pauses, realizes she needs Valyrian steel, so runs off to the crypt to get it. The last thing we see is a shot of Melisandra and the Hound watching Arya run off.

The last time we see the dagger, Tyrion and Sansa have both just come out of hiding and are crouching next to an Alcove of Hiding +6 which is keeping all the main characters safe. (Varys, Missandei, Gilly, little Sam, etc...)

The next time we see either Arya or the dagger is when she kills the Night King. So I'm thinking the Hound (at least) and probably Melisandra as well followed Arya to the crypt. They stayed behind in the crypt to kill the wights down there, because otherwise it makes no sense.

No way does Arya pop into the crypt, grab the dagger from Sansa and then leave everyone in the crypts to be torn apart by wights. And I don't think it makes sense for her to singlehandedly kill all the wights before heading out. Too much time. The only way she grabs the dagger and leaves is if someone else is with her to stay behind and protect the useless.

The next time we see either the Hound or Melissandre is at the very end, where both of them walk outside together. So it seems to make sense that they stayed together. She then walks out to the battlefield, takes off her necklace, and crumbles.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 04-29-2019 at 12:21 AM.
  #122  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:27 AM
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I bought into the theory that Bran was being set up to warg into the past and possibly possess the Mad King and, similar to Hodor, somehow break his mind and have him think he was ordering all the white walkers to be burnt, not the people of King's landing. It felt like they laid the groundwork for some sort of clever reveal that way, and that Bran would play a critical role in doing some sort of three eyed raven shit to set up the defeat of the Night King that way.

So it was even more surprising that Bran's contribution to the battle was looking through some Raven eyes and not telling anyone anything or doing anything.

It really felt like we were going to have some sort of clever solution, or to see things we knew in a different light, or something. But what we got was jumpy stabby. That is anticlimactic as fuck.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 04-29-2019 at 12:27 AM.
  #123  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:28 AM
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The last time we see Arya, Melisandra tells Arya to kill the Night King ("and blue eyes"). Arya pauses, realizes she needs Valyrian steel, so runs off to the crypt to get it. The last thing we see is a shot of Melisandra and the Hound watching Arya run off.

The last time we see the dagger, Tyrion and Sansa have both just come out of hiding and are crouching next to an Alcove of Hiding +6 which is keeping all the main characters safe. (Varys, Missandei, Gilly, little Sam, etc...)
The dagger Arya gives to Sansa before sending her to the crypt is dragonglass, not the Valyrian dagger. It's not obvious when she gives it to her, but when Sansa is seen holding it in the crypt the blade is dragonglass. Arya probably had the Valyrian dagger on her. She didn't need to go to the crypt to get it.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-29-2019 at 12:28 AM.
  #124  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:37 AM
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I so hope this replaces the old version.

Worst battle plan ever.

"Hey, all the zombies are stopped staring at the lit trench"

"Think we should be killing them with flaming arrows or dragon's fire or something?"

"Nah, let's just stare at them back!"

The ridiculousness of nobody of importance dying despite being surrounded by tens of thousands of fast zombies with weapons made me honestly think Bran was gonna flick to the past or some other time travel crap.
Danny was in the background straffing the dead with dragonfire.

That said their battle plan left a lot to be desired. Start the battle with a cavalry charge in the dark? Really? How about pelting them with trebuchets endlessly as long as they won't move?
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  #125  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:39 AM
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I'm so happy that the BiggsHound saved LukeArya, who finally got set straight by Obi-Wan Melisandre who told her to use the faceless force. Thus enwisened, LukeArya went right down that ventilation crypt shaft over the heads of the white walkers and attacked at just the moment the death king was about to clear the sword from his scabbard and blow up Bran.

I guess the big party will be next episode. They should give a medal to Drogon, who will roar amusingly. And then eat the band.
  #126  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:42 AM
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The dagger Arya gives to Sansa before sending her to the crypt is dragonglass, not the Valyrian dagger. It's not obvious when she gives it to her, but when Sansa is seen holding it in the crypt the blade is dragonglass. Arya probably had the Valyrian dagger on her. She didn't need to go to the crypt to get it.
Ah, okay, good. That's much better.
  #127  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:42 AM
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Gotta say I am amazed they knocked off the Night King this episode. Really seems they are clearing the decks ASAP.
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  #128  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:45 AM
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Massively disappointed by this episode. Like SenorBeef I felt that while the writing clearly dropped off since they moved past the books, at least they had the spectacles down pat... Battle of the Bastards was freaking amazing. So to end up with this wet fart of a battle was... ugh.

I figured they went with the night battle for budget reasons, but the combination of the darkness with the fog/smoke made the battle nearly impossible to follow at points. Throw in lots of close angles and quick cuts and it's even worse to the point you can't even tell if the person getting impaled is a live person or a wight. Couldn't tell the dragons apart in the air except for the blue flame.

And even when you can tell what's going on, it felt very by the numbers with no real exciting or shocking moments except for maybe the Lyanna Mormont scene. Things really dragged once Arya/Beric/the Hound started skulking about the interior. I was really hoping for a twist with the crypt, because it felt so obviously freaking stupid that it would be the 'safest place' against a necromancer, but nope, the corpses rise and start killing people. At least we'd surely get some interesting bit with Bran and the Night King, but nope, turns out Arya just stabs him and that's the end. Whoopie.

I guess maybe the Night King will just end up being the genesis for the Jon/Dany alliance and hopefully lead to more interesting things in the last three episodes. They've definitely laid the groundwork for a big crack in their relationship. To be honest I'll be hugely disappointed if it just ends up with Jon and Dany beating Cersei then happily ruling together as King and Queen.

Last edited by magnusblitz; 04-29-2019 at 12:47 AM.
  #129  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:47 AM
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The dagger Arya gives to Sansa before sending her to the crypt is dragonglass, not the Valyrian dagger. It's not obvious when she gives it to her, but when Sansa is seen holding it in the crypt the blade is dragonglass. Arya probably had the Valyrian dagger on her. She didn't need to go to the crypt to get it.
She absolutely does carry one, shows it to Gendry in one of the last two episodes when they were flirting in the forge. I don't think she's one to leave any of her weapons behind. Ever. Goddamned murder genie.

Last edited by SmartAleq; 04-29-2019 at 12:48 AM.
  #130  
Old 04-29-2019, 12:48 AM
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Ah, okay, good. That's much better.
In season 6, when the sisters seemed to be at odds, Arya gave Sansa the Valyrian dagger to prove she trusted her. But she must have gotten it back before the battle. She would never have given such a special weapon to Sansa when she couldn't use it.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-29-2019 at 12:49 AM.
  #131  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:02 AM
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Massively disappointed by this episode. Like SenorBeef I felt that while the writing clearly dropped off since they moved past the books, at least they had the spectacles down pat... Battle of the Bastards was freaking amazing. So to end up with this wet fart of a battle was... ugh.

I figured they went with the night battle for budget reasons, but the combination of the darkness with the fog/smoke made the battle nearly impossible to follow at points. Throw in lots of close angles and quick cuts and it's even worse to the point you can't even tell if the person getting impaled is a live person or a wight. Couldn't tell the dragons apart in the air except for the blue flame.

And even when you can tell what's going on, it felt very by the numbers with no real exciting or shocking moments except for maybe the Lyanna Mormont scene. Things really dragged once Arya/Beric/the Hound started skulking about the interior. I was really hoping for a twist with the crypt, because it felt so obviously freaking stupid that it would be the 'safest place' against a necromancer, but nope, the corpses rise and start killing people. At least we'd surely get some interesting bit with Bran and the Night King, but nope, turns out Arya just stabs him and that's the end. Whoopie.
I agree on most points.

But they supposedly filmed for 11 weeks to make this so they were not doing night scenes for budget reasons. They spent a fortune on it but yeah...the whole thing was in the dark, in the fog and pretty much a waste of time. The quick cuts...ugh...how does anyone let that happen these days? Everyone hates it.

Not to mention their battle plan was farcical. I am no general but I am certain I could have done better. Why send your cavalry into the enemy, in the dark, when you have no idea of their deployment? Let your artilklery go to town for awhile rather than for two minutes. On it goes.

And yeah, Arya killing NK was a Deus Ex moment. How did she get past all the other WWs on her way in? And we spend eight seasons to have NK killed by a minor(ish) stab? (Yes, I know...valerian steel...still...)
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 04-29-2019 at 01:06 AM.
  #132  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:04 AM
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That cavalry could've been pretty useful if held off in reserve. When they lit the trench, the cavalry could've hit them from the side and flanks and forced them into the fire.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:39 AM
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So I didn't mind Arya being the one to kill the guy. It's sort of been what she's been training for since Ned died. It seemed almost fated that a trained assassin Stark with a Valyrian steel dagger would be in Winterfell when death came calling.

But the rest of it.. Yuck. It was just so.. by the numbers. Of course Ser Jorah happens to arrive just as Daeneris is about to be killed. Of course Brienne arrives just as Jamie is being swarmed. Of course the Hound arrives just as Arya is about to be killed. Of course Edd dies saving Sam, and not just being hacked down by a random dead guy. Of course Beric Donderrian dies saving Arya - he was on her list, so it's poetic.

And as it turns out that the Crypt was a really bad place to be, it seems everyone overlooked the simple fact that they were going down where all the dead people are. On the other hand, things were no better on the outside, so maybe it still was the safest place to be...

Anyway, this is not the battle George R.R. Martin would have written - at least back when he was writing the first books. I'm not so sure about now. There was too much fan-service, too much writing in the service of cool visuals. A dragon battle in the moonlight? That sounds cool, and SFX says we can do it in budget because it'll all be in silhouette. Call the script guys and tell them to make sure there's a moonlight dragon battle.

Kill Jamie? Are you kidding? Our Game of Thrones Christmas merch would drop 10%. The golden hand was a good idea, though. The Jamie with detachable hand was our best seller at Comic-Con.
  #134  
Old 04-29-2019, 02:56 AM
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Oh and was I was the only one worried that Jon Snow was going to become a member of the NK's army after he raised the dead? Because Jon WAS murdered by the Night's Watch. Although Iíd have screamed at the loss of Jon, it would have been a great twist.

One thing thatís always bothered me was that there were no obvious repercussions for being re-animated. Makes even less sense when his body sat on that table for countless hours. I appreciate that itís a fantasy, and that logically the cold could have offered some protection against, I donít know, brain rot, but come on. He didnít even return with an eye twitch.
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  #135  
Old 04-29-2019, 03:30 AM
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Stick 'em with the pointy end.

And yeah, the overall strategy sucked.
  #136  
Old 04-29-2019, 03:45 AM
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I thought the episode was entertaining, as I've already accepted that the GoT I loved is no more. I watched the little "making of" documentary after this episode and it didn't do anything to make me think the rest of the season will be any better. Not that they divulged any information about it, but just from the showrunners' views about the current episode, I realize they just don't get it. They had an opportunity to complete one of the greatest series of all time, but I guess that's what happens when the source material runs out and you're left with your pumped-up confidence. You decide to to visit tvtropes.org and write your episodes on what you find.
  #137  
Old 04-29-2019, 05:02 AM
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I could not see jackshit.
I **think** Arya killed the Night King. Or Lyanna Mormont? One of the two.

Episode and this season sucks donkey ass.
  #138  
Old 04-29-2019, 05:14 AM
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If Tormund is among the living then everyone in the room when Tyrion said, "I think we'll live" actually lived.
  #139  
Old 04-29-2019, 05:24 AM
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I thought it was great. My only criticism is that they made the army of the dead look so impressive and overwhelming from time to time and then other times the threat would appear manageable, with their attacks much less focused and their numbers much less. When the Dothraki charged, my thought was, "They are going to cut through the dead with ease". Seeing them annihilated in two minutes was a shock and recalibrated my expectations about how dangerous the dead actually were. I guess I've watched too much Walking Dead. Dothraki would ride through hordes of those zombies and enjoy the sport immensely. These dead guys wield weapons and move much quicker and with more organization. Yikes. Another scene that was amazing was seeing it basically raining dead people as they came over the walls. But then when the major characters needed time to breathe, they got it.

I get people's disappointment, but I don't think the books are going to be any better, even assuming Martin ever actually writes them. I'm betting he's slowed down because it's just not fun anymore. It's easy to upend fantasy tropes and foil your expectations in the beginning and middle of the story. But if you're going to have a satisfying ending then those tropes are likely to reassert themselves and they have. The trick Martin used was to kill off major characters because he knew he didn't need them anymore, even though you the reader didn't know that at the time. Once he only had characters he needed, they had to be constantly saved from peril at the last minute. Their crazy poorly thought out plans had to start working. So while the story subverted fantasy tropes through most of it's run, at the end, those tropes are going to be necessary to get to the ending he wants. I suppose you COULD screw with us by having the Night King on the Iron Throne, or Cersei, but it's just not going to happen that way. It's either going to be Jon or Danaerys or Jon and Danaerys or they both die and the survivors decide to stop playing the Game of Thrones and do something different. That latter ending is about as reasonably subversive as we're going to be able to get.
  #140  
Old 04-29-2019, 05:50 AM
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Mad props, though, that after 8 seasons, this is the episode where someone dies of old age.
  #141  
Old 04-29-2019, 06:26 AM
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I hope there is a lot of pressure on HBO to reissue this episode with clearer visuals.

Did anyone get the feeling that D&D were not enthusiastic about this episode in the making of segment?
  #142  
Old 04-29-2019, 06:36 AM
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darkness hides a lot of stuff , you never got too many closeup looks at the wights. Probably because it takes a lot of effort to use makeup or CGI for them.
  #143  
Old 04-29-2019, 06:37 AM
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Mad props, though, that after 8 seasons, this is the episode where someone dies of old age.
Maester Aemon died of old age seasons ago!
  #144  
Old 04-29-2019, 06:49 AM
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Very disappointed in this episode. I thought "Hardhome" was done so much better.

I agree with all the obvious criticisms mentioned by others. (Half the time we couldn't see what was being shown on the black mirror screen because here in western Australia it shows at 9 am Monday morning. And there is lots of incidental lighting from all the windows. Arrrgggh.)

The little things don't bother me so much. What bothers me the most is that the arc of the series was that the political game of thrones doesn't really matter. What matters is the great battle of ice and fire. The battle of the living against the dead.

Pfffft. Not true apparently.

Seven seasons building up the threat of winter coming is wiped out with one lucky stab. I like Arya and all, but c'mon. The Night King couldn't sense her behind him like he did Jon?

Very disappointed indeed.
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  #145  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:01 AM
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He **did** sense her coming, that cartoonish leap.
Turned around and caught her by the neck. Her dagger fell. She caught it and stabbed.

Here someone made a GIF of it.
  #146  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:07 AM
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I think the entire next episode will be how a few hundred living people can dispose of 100,000+ dead, decaying bodies.
They should call in Gary to help out.
  #147  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:11 AM
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Anyone else thbought for a second that Theon was going to get up and charge the Night King again?
  #148  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:31 AM
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Oh and was I was the only one worried that Jon Snow was going to become a member of the NK's army after he raised the dead? Because Jon WAS murdered by the Night's Watch. Although Iíd have screamed at the loss of Jon, it would have been a great twist.
I thought perhaps the greyscale that Jorah had but was healed of might grant him some special protection.
  #149  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:37 AM
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After 7-1/2 seasons and 69 episodes of build-up, I felt like the defeat of the Night King was rather anticlimatic.
Agree, though I'm not sure how they could have done it better. The Night King had to die this season; would it have been better to draw it out? I don't know the answer, but I'm with you in thinking that the Night King and thus the entire threat of White Walkers and zombies are just gone seems somehow anticlimactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adaher View Post
I get people's disappointment, but I don't think the books are going to be any better, even assuming Martin ever actually writes them.
It occurred to me last week that maybe, just maybe, the whole "GRRM doesn't finish the books before the show ends" was on purpose. It definitely would have cut into the excitement of these last few episodes if a significant number of the viewers knew the ending, right? I could totally see there being an agreement that he'd not finish the series, at least not until the show is over.

I guess we'll see in the next few months if the next book appears as if by magic.
  #150  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:42 AM
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I came here this morning really excited to read other's reactions to the episode and I have to say I am shocked that it is so overwhelmingly negative. I loved this episode and although I agree sections of it were too dark I didn't think it was that bad. I spent the entire episode on the edge of my seat. The Dothraki charge was an early punch in the gut watching the lights blink out. By the last few minutes of the battle, my mind was reeling that I could not believe the writers were going to have the Night King win. If the combined forces of Daenery's and the North plus dragons couldn't beat the Night King... there was almost no one left and the Night King was going to roll over Kings Landing. Then came Arya's attack and when the Night King caught her by the throat I thought this is it, this is where they kill a major character and fan favorite.

Other things I really liked:

The detail of the dragon's throat being ripped out in the earlier fight coming back in the end when it was doing it's ice version of shooting flames out it's mouth. Having that jetting out the neck wound was a nice touch.
How they kept the "mass" of the Night King's army in the dark, it created a tremendous sense of dread. I felt Mormont's fear watching the army swallowed by the darkness.
The whole visual of the lighting of the Dothraki army's weapons was stunning.
The tactic of the Night King to raise up the winter storm to (somewhat) neutralize Daenery's dragons.
Theon's ass kicking and redemption. I think that was an exceptionally strong moment of Theon with tears in his eyes receiving forgiveness.
I also thought the moment with Sansa and Tyrion hiding behind the crypt was just full of emotion. So much was said by their faces without a word being spoken.
"Not today".

Ah well, I'm still on a bit of a high over the episode. I do agree with the earlier comments about subverting tropes only works in the beginning to middle. You can't do it through-out else you end up with chaos and no way to complete the story. I do suspect we will see one or two twists or at the least some satisfying ends to certain character's story - Mountain vs. The Hound anyone?
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