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  #51  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:13 PM
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I am ashamed to admit how naive and credulous I was when Barr was first appointed, but I'm going to do it anyway. . I read articles and heard commentary by people I at least semi-respected that said Barr is an institutionalist, he respects the norms of DOJ, he cares about his reputation, he's close personal friends with Bob Mueller, blah blah blah. I even harbored a wishful fantasy that he had deliberately bamboozled Trump into nominating him so he could come in and reveal himself to be a crusader for truth, justice and the American way.

Boy, was I wrong.

It's a complete waste of effort to suck up to someone you know does not make appointment decicions based on how far up his anus your tongue is. On the other hand, if you are guaranteed to be appointed by doing so and you believe the end justifies any means, then there's no surprise at the exquisite level of corruption in Trumpia. It's also no surprise what happens to someone who tires of the taste of Trump dung and tries to do something right, decent, and even honorable.

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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Anyone who at this point is willing to accept a major post from Donald Trump has an extreme dearth of either intelligence or personal character, at a very minimum.

Yeppers. Also don't forget Tan the Conman crowed about having acting officials, meaning, of course, he could populate his admin without Congress bothering him. Anyone, anyone at all, willing or wanting to be part of that is as craven as Tan himself.

Cry, the beloved country.

Last edited by Monty; 05-02-2019 at 08:14 PM.
  #52  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:15 PM
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How could any of you guys thought that Barr was a decent choice for AG? Where were you when he was orchestrating and coordinating the cover up of the Iran Contra scandal?

Last edited by Blank Slate; 05-02-2019 at 08:16 PM.
  #53  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:22 PM
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I don't know about the rest of the "you guys", but I was holding out for Jeanine Pirro.
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  #54  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:33 PM
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I was wondering why the lying sack of shit has not been charged with contempt of Congress. It turns out, according to CNN, that he might yet be, although it's a difficult and cumbersome process. There are now actually two reasons to do it: failing to show up for the House hearing, and failing to comply with the subpoena for the unredacted Mueller report.

Part of the problem is that such actions invariably involve the cooperation of the Executive Branch, the head of which at the moment is an even worse lying sack of shit.
  #55  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:19 PM
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If only we could trade him in for Bill Burr.
I'd be alright with Bill Cosby.
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  #56  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:55 PM
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Was Barr issued a subpoena to appear? If not, is there some legal bar to issuing a subpoena? If he did violate a subpoena, when will the House Sergeant-at-Arms attempt to arrest him?
  #57  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:24 PM
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I'm afraid (as the saying goes), you ain't seen nothin' yet.


The bar (barr?!) still has a long way to go down. For example, wait until the DOJ starts going after Trump's enemy list. Wait until political opponents are jailed on spurious charges.

Just wait. More to come.
Wait until we see what they do to Democratic candidates. It is already starting - Biden Faces Conflict of Interest Questions That Are Being Promoted by Trump and Allies.

Not just US investigations.

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The Trump teamís efforts to draw attention to the Bidensí work in Ukraine, which is already yielding coverage in conservative media, has been led partly by Rudolph W. Giuliani, who served as a lawyer for Mr. Trump in the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. Giulianiís involvement raises questions about whether Mr. Trump is endorsing an effort to push a foreign government to proceed with a case that could hurt a political opponent at home.
  #58  
Old 05-03-2019, 11:43 AM
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I'm afraid (as the saying goes), you ain't seen nothin' yet.


The bar (barr?!) still has a long way to go down. For example, wait until the DOJ starts going after Trump's enemy list. Wait until political opponents are jailed on spurious charges.

Just wait. More to come.
Obama: "When they go low, we go high!"

Republicans: "We can always go lower!"
  #59  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:37 PM
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How could any of you guys thought that Barr was a decent choice for AG? Where were you when he was orchestrating and coordinating the cover up of the Iran Contra scandal?
I was a small dot in my mother's ovaries at the time, we didn't get a lot of news coverage in there.
  #60  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:41 PM
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  #61  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:51 PM
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Yeeessss…Here's your parade, Mr. Trump. Your place of honor is right up there on the cart.
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  #62  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:59 PM
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Okay...I just need to get it off my chest and record it for posterity, so when the truth is told, you can say you heard it here first:

Barr claims that he has asked Mueller (3 times?) that if not for DOJ policy of not indicting a sitting President, would he have charged Trump with obstruction and Mueller has said NO. But, here's the thing: If you read the introduction to Volume II of the Mueller report (as I assume Barr has, although he has played dumb on comprehending it), you would know that Mueller can't possibly answer YES to that question without violating the principles he laid out there. He basically said that he can't indict the President and that it would be unfair to accuse someone of a crime and not give them their day in court, ergo he can't accuse the President of a crime.

So, now Barr goes and asks Mueller in essence, "Well, okay, but if you could accuse the President of a crime, would you have?" How could Mueller answer YES to such a question without then having, in essence, accused the President of a crime?

So, my conjecture is that Barr, being a smart lawyer, knows never to ask a question that he doesn't know how the witness will answer...i.e., that won't give him the answer that he wants (or close enough so that he can spin it as being that answer without technically perjuring himself). At best, Mueller would presumably give an answer such as "No, not necessarily, ..." and proceed to explain that he can't answer this or maybe that they decided not even to determine the answer to a question that is irrelevant because they wouldn't be able to reveal the answer to anyone. And, then, Barr has the answer that he wants - Mueller said NO.

So, that's my hypothesis of how it all went down and I am frustrated as hell that I haven't seen others come to this rather obvious conclusion.

-----

And, in a not unrelated note, a lot has been said about Barr playing dumb when he had been asked by the Congressman weeks ago if he knew why it might be that the Mueller team was reportedly unhappy with the summary he put out. However, less seems to be said about how Barr (and admittedly most of the Republican Party) continues to play dumb about why Mueller did not reach a prosecutorial judgement on obstruction of justice. I mean, I have another day job but still on the very day the Mueller report came out I managed to find and read the introduction to Volume II where Mueller lays all this out in about a page and a half in very clear prose (Okay, as a disclaimer, I'll admit that I had no classes to teach on Thursday, but still...). I mean...What the fuck!?! He's entitled to disagree with the reasoning but not to pretend he's ignorant of it.

On the other hand, I understand why he has to play dumb: If he admits to understanding it, then it undermines the fiction that his decision on obstruction was just filling in the vacuum left by Mueller's non-decision. I.e., he can continue to present the fiction that he did not contradict Mueller's conclusion but merely made a decision where Mueller had punted. Still, it is utterly disgusting to see this level of deception being promulgated by the Attorney General.

Last edited by jshore; 05-05-2019 at 12:59 PM.
  #63  
Old 05-05-2019, 03:35 PM
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Lawfare's Jack Goldsmith thinks that nothing Barr did is odd and very little was even a misstep.
  #64  
Old 05-05-2019, 05:13 PM
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Assuming my understanding of his position (toward the end of the article) is correct, it's interesting that the same Jack Goldsmith who apparently believes that there needs to be some investigation into the FISA process and how it was implemented by the FBI in 2016 appears to be the same Goldsmith who helped implement and defend warrantless wiretaps on American civilians in 2004. Didn't seem to have a problem with FISA and "spying" then.
  #65  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:53 PM
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Whoever this Jack Goldsmith is, he is completely out-to-lunch on the whole obstruction thing. He is another person who seems incapable of understanding why Mueller chose the path that he did. If you are going to criticize that path, you have to explain what Mueller's other option is. I.e., you have to engage Mueller's argument for doing what he did. He hasn't engaged it; like, Barr he is just pretending it isn't there (although I am willing to entertain more innocuous motives in his case, whereas in Barr's case it is pretty clear why he is pretending it isn't there).
  #66  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:58 PM
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Whoever this Jack Goldsmith is, he is completely out-to-lunch on the whole obstruction thing. He is another person who seems incapable of understanding why Mueller chose the path that he did. If you are going to criticize that path, you have to explain what Mueller's other option is. I.e., you have to engage Mueller's argument for doing what he did. He hasn't engaged it; like, Barr he is just pretending it isn't there (although I am willing to entertain more innocuous motives in his case, whereas in Barr's case it is pretty clear why he is pretending it isn't there).
I think Goldsmith, like Barr, is also playing dumb
  #67  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:03 PM
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I don't think this could or would happen, but I'd really like to see Mueller call Barr's bluff on this whole thing. "You want me to make a prosecutorial judgement in spite of the DOJ opinion, then hey, you are the attorney general so issue a new opinion overturning that one and we'll go back and render my prosecutorial judgement."

Fucking twit (Barr that is)!

Last edited by jshore; 05-05-2019 at 07:05 PM.
  #68  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:47 PM
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By the way, here is a short interview with someone (Renato Mariotti) who can read and intelligently discuss Mueller's decision in regards to obstruction and how Bill Barr distorted it. Restores my faith in humanity at least a little bit.

Last edited by jshore; 05-05-2019 at 07:48 PM.
  #69  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:35 PM
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I just discovered that Ben Wittes also has a very nice analysis of the Introduction to Volume II and Barr's distortion of what is said there. His statement that

Quote:
The two-page introduction to Volume II of the Mueller report is perhaps the part of the entire document that packs the most important material into the smallest space.
is no overstatement. I've seen people say that Mueller wanted the executive summaries released in that letter after Barr released his "summary" but Mueller's letter actual says "the introduction and executive summary of each volume". The key to Barr's deception on obstruction is not having Mueller's conclusion presented in the context of the Intro to Volume II.
  #70  
Old 05-05-2019, 10:25 PM
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I don't think this could or would happen, but I'd really like to see Mueller call Barr's bluff on this whole thing. "You want me to make a prosecutorial judgement in spite of the DOJ opinion, then hey, you are the attorney general so issue a new opinion overturning that one and we'll go back and render my prosecutorial judgement."

Fucking twit (Barr that is)!
"Twit"? You misspelled "lying sack of shit".
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By the way, here is a short interview with someone (Renato Mariotti) who can read and intelligently discuss Mueller's decision in regards to obstruction and how Bill Barr distorted it. Restores my faith in humanity at least a little bit.
My faith in humanity has been permanently undermined by the fact that the distortions of the above-mentioned lying sack of shit, aided and abetted by Fox News and the rest of the right-wing spin machine, have become the de facto reality for perhaps as many as half of American voters. And the reason it might only be half is that a significant percentage probably don't even understand the issues and don't give a shit, as long as a lunatic with an "R" after his name is president.
  #71  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:52 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/polit...arr/index.html
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House panel sets Wednesday vote to hold Barr in contempt after DOJ doesn't turn over Mueller report
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  #72  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:04 PM
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Robert Litt slams Jack Goldsmith's POV!

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 05-07-2019 at 08:04 PM.
  #73  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:45 PM
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Glad to see Litt basically make a point similar to what I did above when he says (rather understatedly), "It is not clear what Barr and Goldsmith believe Mueller should have done given these circumstances..."
  #74  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:42 AM
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Barr threatens to get Trump to exert Executive Privilege; House set to vote on citing Barr for contempt

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/willi...b0e4d7573933d6
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:08 AM
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Barr threatens to get Trump to exert Executive Privilege; House set to vote on citing Barr for contempt

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/willi...b0e4d7573933d6
Not sure what he's threatening. "We're stonewalling you, and if you cite me for contempt, we'll....we'll....we'll......stonewall you!"
  #76  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:13 AM
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Not sure what he's threatening. "We're stonewalling you, and if you cite me for contempt, we'll....we'll....we'll......stonewall you!"
Neither is anyone else. Trump seems to already be threatening to do those things.
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  #77  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:21 AM
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Barr contempt vote is live right now on MSNBC, CNN, FOX News, and maybe others.
Also streaming online: https://youtu.be/8hWmHcwNfxU
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Last edited by davidm; 05-08-2019 at 09:25 AM.
  #78  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:27 AM
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If I understood what I was watching, the Republicans tried unsuccessfully to block it with some sort of procedural vote.
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  #79  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:34 AM
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I misremember who Lawrence O'Donnell was quoting ó possibly Adam Schiff ó but the person described a couple of "tells" that indicate Barr's trying to evade a question (even more than usual). The first is that he asks to have the question repeated; the second is that his response will devolve into an ever-deeper parsing of one or two salient words.
Barr is just a terrible liar. I mean, this is How To Spot A Liar 101.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:41 AM
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Barr contempt vote is live right now on MSNBC, CNN, FOX News, and maybe others.
Also streaming online: https://youtu.be/8hWmHcwNfxU
Some Republican reps seem to be confused about the nature of this vote.
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Last edited by davidm; 05-08-2019 at 09:42 AM.
  #81  
Old 05-08-2019, 10:02 AM
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Some Republican reps seem to be confused about the nature of this vote.
I will fix this for you:

"Republican reps seem to be confused."
  #82  
Old 05-08-2019, 10:05 AM
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Has Barr reversed himself on Mueller testifying to Congress yet? He initially said he had no problem with Mueller testifying, but Trump says Mueller shouldn't/can't testify.

If Barr reverses himself, I can't think of any clearer evidence he's not acting as Attorney General for the people of this country, but as Trump's long-desired Roy Cohn, only he's running the DOJ and has all the power that comes with that position.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:06 AM
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Just wandered in to hear a bit of Louie Gohmert's confusion. What a bunch of shills. I suspect we're going to hear a lot of whataboutism from this cast of cretins.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:06 AM
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What's this "seems" baloney??
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:21 AM
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He is in a state of desperation. His "privilege" claim is balderdash and tommyrot, but it will move things to the courts where delay equals "winning!".

As a Nixon survivor, I am experiencing waves of deja voodoo....
  #86  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:16 PM
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Marco Rubio made a strong statement against Barr (for real, not sarcastic).

https://twitter.com/billkristol/stat...448165888?s=21
  #87  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:28 PM
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Marco Rubio made a strong statement against Barr (for real, not sarcastic).

https://twitter.com/billkristol/stat...448165888?s=21
No he didn't. Unless I'm missing something, that was a strong statement against Eric Holder from several years ago.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:28 PM
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Marco Rubio made a strong statement against Barr (for real, not sarcastic).

https://twitter.com/billkristol/stat...448165888?s=21
He made that statement in 2012.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:31 PM
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Marco Rubio made a strong statement against Barr (for real, not sarcastic).

https://twitter.com/billkristol/stat...448165888?s=21
You prolly should have listened to the video more closely at :56, eh.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:44 PM
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You prolly should have listened to the video more closely at :56, eh.
Wow! That shows just how amazingly hypocritical he is that I completely had no idea that he wasn't talking about the current situation!

(And apologies!)
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:59 PM
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He is in a state of desperation. His "privilege" claim is balderdash and tommyrot, but it will move things to the courts where delay equals "winning!".

As a Nixon survivor, I am experiencing waves of deja voodoo....
Quote:
"I don't see any legitimate ground for the executive to be pushing back against Mueller testimony," she explained. "Again, to do that, they'd also perhaps support it with this unitary executive theory that all members of the executive branch are under the president's authority and therefore he can order [Muellser] not to testify..."
Georgetown University legal scholar Victoria Nourse
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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As a side issue, Donald Trump Jr. has been subpoenaed by the Republican led Senate intelligence committee.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:34 PM
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You prolly should have listened to the video more closely at :56, eh.
I'll have to give Marco the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to a slip of the tongue.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:38 PM
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That's pretty much what I wanted to say, so I will add a big "fuck you" to all the Republicans who think this administration's behavior and practices are acceptable. They are not, Fuck You.
Thank you. That's pretty much my exact sentiment towards Angry Lid'l' Donny, every single member of his "administration," every single Republican who lies and covers for him, every single member of his family (yes, including Barron - what kind of a STUPID name is that to give a kid, BTW?), every single person whom he THINKS is his "friend," and, MOST of all, to every single lizard brain in this country who voted for him for Prez. I will NEVER forgive any of those people for what they have done to this country by voting that "person" into the W.H. N-E-V-E-R.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:53 PM
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Thank you. That's pretty much my exact sentiment towards Angry Lid'l' Donny, every single member of his "administration," every single Republican who lies and covers for him, every single member of his family (yes, including Barron - what kind of a STUPID name is that to give a kid, BTW?), every single person whom he THINKS is his "friend," and, MOST of all, to every single lizard brain in this country who voted for him for Prez. I will NEVER forgive any of those people for what they have done to this country by voting that "person" into the W.H. N-E-V-E-R.
Yeah, well you gotta stop them first. What are you gonna doooo?
  #96  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:55 PM
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As a side issue, Donald Trump Jr. has been subpoenaed by the Republican led Senate intelligence committee.
They don't care. They are more interested in debasing women, blacks, and Latinos. They are at war with progress and diversity, and they are willing to kill people and put others in jail for it.

What are you gonna do about it?
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:05 PM
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What are you gonna do about it?
I dunno about you, but I'm gonna sit around on message boards and pester people about what they're gonna do about it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:15 PM
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Call your congressman!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6H5ZDUwVSI
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:39 PM
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Marco Rubio made a strong statement against Barr (for real, not sarcastic).

https://twitter.com/billkristol/stat...448165888?s=21
Good God, man... for a second there I thought I was going to have to respect Marco Rubio for something. Don't ever scare me like that again!
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
As a side issue, Donald Trump Jr. has been subpoenaed by the Republican led Senate intelligence committee.
What's up with this? There is SO much going on everything is focused on the super big things and the just regular big things are getting overlooked. Is this something I should be getting happy for in my desire for JUSTICE? Or is it some GOP trickery?

And a third, much more distant possibility... is Trump throwing Jr to the wolves to save himself?

If anyone's reading this right now (9pm EDT), Nadler's going to be on Maddow this hour.
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