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  #51  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:07 PM
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It's starting to come scross, to me at least, as a tad passive-aggressive. But I'm usually wrong in my convictions, so take that as a good sign and keep on keeping on.
I agree, it might be a tad.
  #52  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:18 PM
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Their music is shit and their videos are shit, like all "k-pop." What's the surprise here?
  #53  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:27 PM
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I agree, it might be a tad.
Ok that time it was funny.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 05-03-2019 at 10:28 PM.
  #54  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:29 PM
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Ok that time it was funny.
*like

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  #55  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:29 PM
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Their music is shit and their videos are shit, like all "k-pop." What's the surprise here?
Only at discovering its existence in the first place.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 05-03-2019 at 10:30 PM.
  #56  
Old 05-04-2019, 01:10 AM
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I mean, I get it: it's just the boyband thing with the pretty boys, except crossing the language barrier. We already crossed to international with some other bands, but now it doesn't even have to be English.
I think that's a detail which can be shocking to someone living in an English-speaking country, but which many other people are already used to. Most of the fans of Metallica or of Justin Bieber have no. Fucking. Idea. What the lyrics say. I've had people ask me to translate one of their favorite songs: I always begin by asking repeatedly if they're sure, because the immense majority of the time they are shocked and disgusted to discover that "Rehab" is about wanting to go on drinking and doing drugs, or that the reason you're supposed to "Love yourself" is because nobody else will love you...
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2019, 05:41 AM
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Despite being in my mid-50s, I listen to K-pop all the time... while I work out. Nothing kills the urge to sing along like not knowing the words in the first place. :-) Aside from "Dope" and "Not Today," can't say I'm a big fan of BTS. I still listen to EXO and Big Bang more often. It seems to me that it's simply a matter of K-pop cresting in the US while they were the top Korean boy group, rather than anything outstanding about them. And while I like Blackpink more, I think they're benefiting from the same phenomenon. Which kinda sucks because I think 4Minute had just found their sound before they broke up and disappeared.

And note to the K-pop companies - I don't think any group with nearly 10 members or more will ever take off in the US. I could never keep all the members of Girls Generation straight and Twice is just as confusing; I never even tried to figure out EXO. I only know the nine members of Momoland because they started with seven and Nayun disappeared for a year, so I just had to add Daisy and Tae-Ha to the members I already knew.
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  #58  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:48 AM
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I don't think any group with nearly 10 members or more will ever take off in the US. I could never keep all the members of Girls Generation straight

Eight members? Eight members? Ha!


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  #59  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:50 AM
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There's nothing weirder in this BTS video than there was in Madonna's song at the Billboard Awards, and that was done live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2vt4YvwOQg

I have to accept now that musical acts will suddenly rise into my view regularly. I will assume that they apparently just got together yesterday, but then I will be told that they've been performing for years and that they are now the hottest thing around. That happens a lot now for the musical guest on Saturday Night Live. You can't be on that show unless you're relatively well known, but somehow I often find that the group or performer is new to me.
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Old 05-04-2019, 09:29 AM
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Despite being in my mid-50s, I listen to K-pop all the time... while I work out. Nothing kills the urge to sing along like not knowing the words in the first place. :-) Aside from "Dope" and "Not Today," can't say I'm a big fan of BTS. I still listen to EXO and Big Bang more often. It seems to me that it's simply a matter of K-pop cresting in the US while they were the top Korean boy group, rather than anything outstanding about them. And while I like Blackpink more, I think they're benefiting from the same phenomenon. Which kinda sucks because I think 4Minute had just found their sound before they broke up and disappeared.

And note to the K-pop companies - I don't think any group with nearly 10 members or more will ever take off in the US. I could never keep all the members of Girls Generation straight and Twice is just as confusing; I never even tried to figure out EXO. I only know the nine members of Momoland because they started with seven and Nayun disappeared for a year, so I just had to add Daisy and Tae-Ha to the members I already knew.
People all have different experiences. The first K-Pop song I ever heard was “Gee” by Girls’ Generation, and I was blown away. It was utterly different from anything going on in American pop music.
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  #61  
Old 05-04-2019, 02:38 PM
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People all have different experiences. The first K-Pop song I ever heard was “Gee” by Girls’ Generation, and I was blown away. It was utterly different from anything going on in American pop music.
It's different from American pop, but very simiilar to all the other Korean pop - pretty much unavoidable due to the assembly-line way k-pop is produced. There's a channel that runs down the top 100 songs every week with 5-second clips and it really runs together.

Of Girls Generation, only a couple of songs are on my playlist: "The Boys" and "I've Got A Boy." Everything else is too bubbly for me. :-)
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  #62  
Old 05-04-2019, 05:14 PM
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I just remembered Menudo, a Puerto Rican boy band who recorded their first album in 1977. Almost immediately they started changing members as they got past puberty. The lineup changed continually until 2015 until the band failed financially, broke up, and whoever it was who owned the rights to the name by that point said no one else could use it.

I don't know if any fans in any given year knew or cared who was in the band two years earlier, or even if they knew someone had been replaced since the last time they saw the band.
  #63  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:03 PM
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It's different from American pop, but very simiilar to all the other Korean pop - pretty much unavoidable due to the assembly-line way k-pop is produced. There's a channel that runs down the top 100 songs every week with 5-second clips and it really runs together.

Of Girls Generation, only a couple of songs are on my playlist: "The Boys" and "I've Got A Boy." Everything else is too bubbly for me. :-)
Those are very good songs.
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  #64  
Old 05-04-2019, 09:25 PM
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A while back the company Divx ran a video streaming site called Stage6 that provided much higher quality video than YouTube allowed at the time, and people uploaded vast numbers of music videos, which I enjoyed browsing to discover new (to me) material. Before the site closed down I downloaded several DVDs full of videos. I don't recall Kpop, but plenty of Jpop, some CantoPop, ThaiPop, etc. Some of them I can't find again, but some are available (but still in lower resolution) at current streaming sites. Those discussing stuff that they like may like some of these (I can't vouch for the quality of the lyrics, but I really like the sound of them.)





By Chara (Japanese) this and this.

By Twins (HK) this.

By Asian2 (Japanese) this.

By Every Little Thing (Japanese) this.

By Mika Nakashima (Japanese) this.



(Not discovered on Stage6, pretty much anything by Rie Fu.)



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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
I just remembered Menudo, a Puerto Rican boy band who recorded their first album in 1977. Almost immediately they started changing members as they got past puberty.

This is much like the long-running Japanese girl group Morning Musume, which "retires" members when they turn 20. Here is a sample video, chosen for its interesting choice of setting and cutting-edge special effects.
  #65  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:15 PM
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Hahaha

The singers in that video definitely have some sort of sexual orientation. I guarantee it!
This comment is pretty offensive.
  #66  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:18 PM
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Do the letters BTS stand for anything in particular?

ETA: (in answer to the question posed in the thread title: no.)
The letters are a Korean abbreviation. It stands for Bangtan Sonyeondan which is Korean for Bulletproof Boy Scouts.

Their most recent video had over 75 million views within the first 24 hours of its release on YouTube.
  #67  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:19 PM
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BTW, if you want to get a little ahead of the curve (or less behind, as the case may be), look up Blackpink. They're a KPop girl group that's following BTS and also trying to break into the western market.
They performed at Coachella recently. My bias is Rose'.
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:21 PM
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Other Kpop has some appeal, like baby metal
Baby Metal is Japanese, not Korean.
  #69  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:23 AM
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They performed at Coachella recently. My bias is Rose'.
I knew there had to be someone here who, like me, didn’t hate kpop!
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  #70  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:42 AM
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Just to throw this in...

IOI (Ideal Of Idols) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.O.I is rumored (possibly for real this time) to be be having a reunion this year. IOI is a girl group comprised of 11 members who were chosen by the public in 2016 though Produce 101, which is currently in its fourth incarnation, Produce X 101, which will produce another 11 member boy group.

Last edited by lingyi; 05-05-2019 at 02:44 AM.
  #71  
Old 05-05-2019, 04:12 AM
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They performed at Coachella recently. My bias is Rose'.
Watch their dance practice videos. For some reason, she really shines just wearing some gym clothes and dancing her little heart out, compared to the actual videos. It's rare that I like what BP wears during a music video - their stylist has issues, chief among them his/her desire to make Lisa wear crazier and crazier boots.
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  #72  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:12 PM
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Watch their dance practice videos. For some reason, she really shines just wearing some gym clothes and dancing her little heart out, compared to the actual videos. It's rare that I like what BP wears during a music video - their stylist has issues, chief among them his/her desire to make Lisa wear crazier and crazier boots.
Her boots in "Kill This Love" weren't so extreme.
  #73  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:58 AM
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I mean, I get it: it's just the boyband thing with the pretty boys, except crossing the language barrier. We already crossed to international with some other bands, but now it doesn't even have to be English. […]
Strange, I got the impression some of the lyrics were at least trying to be English. Not that I understood them at all, but that is the impression I got.
  #74  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:04 AM
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This comment is pretty offensive.
Sorry, I guess I shouldn't assume they are singing.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:22 AM
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People all have different experiences. The first K-Pop song I ever heard was “Gee” by Girls’ Generation, and I was blown away. It was utterly different from anything going on in American pop music.
The first KPop song I heard was "Can't Nobody" by 2NE1, only I didn't know it was Korean. I heard it on a music streaming app and thought it was catchy, so I looked it up and found two versions: "Can't Nobody" and "Can't Nobody (English Version)". It was the latter I had listened to.

Since music from other Asian countries has come up, I also listen to Mandopop. G.E.M. and Jackson Wang are my favorites.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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Strange, I got the impression some of the lyrics were at least trying to be English. Not that I understood them at all, but that is the impression I got.
Many Korean songs work some English lyrics in. Sometimes it's single words sprinkled here and there, other times it's the entire chorus. It's often just enough to make you think you can sing along, but then it's no, you can't.
  #77  
Old 05-07-2019, 10:13 AM
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I'd heard of them, but never seen / heard them until the SNL appearance. I'm certainly not their target market and I also realize that the cycle of life dictates that at some point most of us wonder at "that crap those young whippersnappers are listening to (on my lawn!)! That being said, I tried to view them as I would have when I was 12. My first thought was "no way in hell". There's no way to say for sure; when you're that age and everyone is into something, it's pretty hard not to get swept up also. But, I mean, are they supposed to be attractive to girls? Do Korean tastes in what makes a heartthrob differ from western tastes? Maybe a better question for those who like them or have kids who like them is are they perceived as "sex symbols"?
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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The first KPop song I heard was "Can't Nobody" by 2NE1, only I didn't know it was Korean. I heard it on a music streaming app and thought it was catchy, so I looked it up and found two versions: "Can't Nobody" and "Can't Nobody (English Version)". It was the latter I had listened to.

Since music from other Asian countries has come up, I also listen to Mandopop. G.E.M. and Jackson Wang are my favorites.
If we're going Asian bands, try Mongolian metal with The Hu Band.
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:36 PM
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The letters are a Korean abbreviation. It stands for Bangtan Sonyeondan which is Korean for Bulletproof Boy Scouts.
Bulletproof, eh? Anyone confirm this yet?
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:54 PM
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Ahh, yes, that special moment in every young person's life when they suddenly realize that a new generation has come up behind them and pop culture is no longer aimed at them.
Considering the average age of SDMB, I think most people here are a few generations past that.
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Old 05-07-2019, 04:45 PM
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I'd heard of them, but never seen / heard them until the SNL appearance. I'm certainly not their target market and I also realize that the cycle of life dictates that at some point most of us wonder at "that crap those young whippersnappers are listening to (on my lawn!)! That being said, I tried to view them as I would have when I was 12. My first thought was "no way in hell". There's no way to say for sure; when you're that age and everyone is into something, it's pretty hard not to get swept up also. But, I mean, are they supposed to be attractive to girls? Do Korean tastes in what makes a heartthrob differ from western tastes? Maybe a better question for those who like them or have kids who like them is are they perceived as "sex symbols"?
My son, age 9, loves them. They’re his favorite band now. That’s why I’ve heard so many of their songs. As I’ve said, I can take them or leave them. They have some good songs, but many mediocre.

He’s not into girls (or boys, in that way) yet, by way. He just think they look and sound cool.
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  #82  
Old 05-07-2019, 05:23 PM
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If we're going Asian bands, try Mongolian metal with The Hu Band.
I like the j-pop girl band Perfume.
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  #83  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:20 AM
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BTS-have you heard of them?


Not until this thread. I originally opened this thinking it was about a serial killer in the Midwest.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:47 AM
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I've heard of them and indeed heard them (on television). They're just the latest in a long line of generic, overproduced, overstyled, overmarketed heartthrob bands churning out immediately-forgettable music and a metric shit-ton of merch. They're the NKOTB of a new generation.

This too shall pass.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:42 AM
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BTW, as much as I love K-Pop, I'm sure this is just a fad that will be forgotten year from now. As mentioned upthread, while BTS (and Blackpink) are good, there's nothing that really makes them all that different from any number of other Korean acts, and they're not the first to attempt to crack the U.S. market. I remember seeing Girl's Generation appearing on Letterman, and CL on James Cordon, for example. (I don't count "Gangnam Style", since that was never really more than a novelty song that went viral.) BTS just happened to be the ones on top at the moment K-Pop finally stuck in the West.
  #86  
Old 05-08-2019, 07:12 PM
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Do Korean tastes in what makes a heartthrob differ from western tastes? Maybe a better question for those who like them or have kids who like them is are they perceived as "sex symbols"?
This whole thing is fucking stupid. (The OP, not your post.) They are obviously Asian men. Pretty boys, with some makeup but no worse than countless other popular singers. Prince, David Bowie, and Boy George, to name a few, were far more androgynous.

They are wearing male clothing. They have male haircuts. They look like young Asian adult males. The only thing is a bit of makeup, something that's been part of popular music only for the last 50 years.

I asked some of my students, middle school and high school age kids, if they looked androgynous. They looked at me like I was crazy. They are males. Period.

Here are a few voice actors from Japan as examples of Asian performers. https://honeysanime.com/top-5-seiyuu...ts-japan-poll/


I wouldn’t discount casual racism as a factor. By causal racism, I mean that the OP may not think himself as racist and possibly doesn’t intentionally look down on Asians.

However, I first lived in Asia almost 40 years ago so I’ve talked to or read thoughts concerning Asians from thousands and thousands of Westerners over the years, and I see lot of racism. Mostly mild, like this. Sometimes worse.

It’s pretty easy to mock Asians. They’re shorter, usually with smaller physiques. They don’t even have much facial or chest hair. I’m not surprised at all to see them thought of as not human. That’s pretty much the history of the interaction between the West and the “Orient” from the very beginnings of direct contact. At least this time we didn’t get the squinty eyes thing.

Unfortunately, while there has been a lot of progress in getting rid of racism, or at least driving it underground, some people get super defensive about it.

Unconscious bias is something which plagues us all. Hell, I grew up as a very conservative Mormon with the traditional beliefs in the superiority of white males. It takes a lot of work to identify and eliminate bias.

As far as the taste in music. I'm not into k-pop, j-jop or whatever-else-pop. I'm not really into recent pop music from America either. I'm just another middle-age man approaching becoming an old man. I'd tell you to get off my lawn, but we don't have lawns here.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:29 PM
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Jesus Christ. Look, I meant the OP to be in good fun. I had never seen the phenomenon of kpop before and i found it humorous. And I likened them to alien-like sentient beings, not to girls, boys or "androgynous males". I honestly meant no offense or mockery. If anything I mocked *myself* for becoming a old, has-been who doesn't "get-it" and wants these young'uns to turn that racket down!

Last edited by Ambivalid; 05-08-2019 at 07:32 PM.
  #88  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:04 PM
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Jesus Christ. Look, I meant the OP to be in good fun. I had never seen the phenomenon of kpop before and i found it humorous. And I likened them to alien-like sentient beings, not to girls, boys or "androgynous males". I honestly meant no offense or mockery. If anything I mocked *myself* for becoming a old, has-been who doesn't "get-it" and wants these young'uns to turn that racket down!
Clearly, the solution is for you to stop getting old.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:00 AM
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Jesus Christ. Look, I meant the OP to be in good fun. I had never seen the phenomenon of kpop before and i found it humorous. And I likened them to alien-like sentient beings, not to girls, boys or "androgynous males".
You say that, but...
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Watching that damn video, I had no fucking clue whether i was watching a boy band, a girl band or a clay band.
Look, I'm not going to beat you up about this but they're clearly boys. Horribly overstyled boys, but boys.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:46 AM
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You say that, but...
Look, I'm not going to beat you up about this but they're clearly boys. Horribly overstyled boys, but boys.
I didn't mean for that to imply that i thought they were "girly boys" but rather *neither* girls nor boys, hence my "smooth everywhere" remark. I was trying, and failing, to paint a comedic picture of genderless, sexless sentient advertisements that had evolved from normal ads that couldnt get past things like adblockers, tivo, etc.

If I had intended to make fun of their "girliness", it would have been an entirely different thread. I was making fun at what i perceived as their "genderlessness". If this in and of itself *is* actually the problem, then I apologize and maybe I do have some unconscious bias that I'm not in touch with.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:33 AM
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That's true of pretty much any band, though. Heck, some of the Beatles work was mediocre, and they filled basically the same niche. K-Pop is just generally popular these days, as parts of the world that have only recently had the ability to reach large audiences start developing their own musical traditions and phenomena. This isn't my cup of tea, but even I can recognize that it's light-years better than, say, "Gangnam Style" or that weird Chinese Apple Tree song.
The only meaningful difference is that the Boomers (aka TPTB) have declared their own crappy boyband "special".

"But, but, this is really awful" is what every generation ever said about the next generations taste in music.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:06 AM
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I wish Led Zeppelin would go back on tour (w/Bohnam's son). THAT would teach these damned fool kids what real music is. :: pulls on grumpy shirt and cranky pants ::

You could substitute Van Halen. Hell, I'd even take a KISS or even the Ramones.

Anything but this "BTS" dischord, cacophany, and din.

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  #93  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
[...]
As far as the taste in music. I'm not into k-pop, j-jop or whatever-else-pop. I'm not really into recent pop music from America either. I'm just another middle-age man approaching becoming an old man. I'd tell you to get off my lawn, but we don't have lawns here.
I would love it if you told us all to get off of your lawn to this tune.
I hope this does not come across as ageism
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB View Post
I'd heard of them, but never seen / heard them until the SNL appearance. I'm certainly not their target market and I also realize that the cycle of life dictates that at some point most of us wonder at "that crap those young whippersnappers are listening to (on my lawn!)! That being said, I tried to view them as I would have when I was 12. My first thought was "no way in hell". There's no way to say for sure; when you're that age and everyone is into something, it's pretty hard not to get swept up also. But, I mean, are they supposed to be attractive to girls? Do Korean tastes in what makes a heartthrob differ from western tastes? Maybe a better question for those who like them or have kids who like them is are they perceived as "sex symbols"?
That's the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member.

I mean, look at BTS here, versus NSYNC here.

Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there's just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tripler View Post
You could substitute Van Halen. Hell, I'd even take a KISS or even the Ramones.
KISS is touring this year, as are The Who and Queen. The Rollings Stones would have toured except for Mick Jagger's surgery. You may be getting AC/DC and Def Leppard as well.
  #96  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's the perplexing thing to me (a 46 year old man)- these guys not only look young, but they look girly and effeminate. Most Western boy bands just have young, not overly masculine, but not overly feminine looking members, and usually that one older, more masculine looking member.

I mean, look at BTS here, versus NSYNC here.

Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there's just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs.
I don’t completely understand it myself, but believe me: They are considered huge sex symbols among the teen girl crowd. Times have changed.
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Last edited by suranyi; 05-09-2019 at 12:43 PM.
  #97  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:53 PM
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Keep in mind, they're from Korea. It's a very different culture with a different aesthetic. Now I'm not in their target market, but it seems that part of the appeal of the current K-Pop wave is that they aren't trying to mold their image to adapt to the U.S. market. And really, I'm not so sure it's all that different to the glam rock and hair metal styles I grew up listening to.

Last edited by Jet Jaguar; 05-09-2019 at 05:54 PM.
  #98  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:49 PM
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Of course there is an earlier Asian band that managed a hit in the US. Sadly, they were a one-hit wonder.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Jaguar View Post
Keep in mind, they're from Korea. It's a very different culture with a different aesthetic.

Kkonminam seems to be the proper term.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:29 PM
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I don’t completely understand it myself, but believe me: They are considered huge sex symbols among the teen girl crowd. Times have changed.
The aesthetics may have changed, but teen heart-throbs have always been less than overtly masculine. There were complaints about Elvis' big eyes and wavy hair (there's a reference to that in Moore's "Watchmen" series), and that continued through the long-haired, tight-jeaned 70s and onward. The K-pop guys have worn some (to me) laugh-out-loud get-ups in their videos (watch "Fantastic Baby"), sure, but so did Prince and Michael Jackson.
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  #100  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
Neither band is going to be confused with a biker gang or squad of Marines, but there's just something more fundamentally girly about BTS that baffles me as to how they could be considered sex symbols or heartthrobs.
I, for one, am shocked that your taste in men differs from that of a teenage Korean girl
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