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  #51  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:29 PM
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Listen to Buddy on the trio recordings with Lester Young and Nat King Cole. In a small combo he doesn’t show off his chops so much. IMO, he was one of the top dozen drummers in jazz history.

Also, try on some more Benny Goodman. He wasn’t called the King of Swing because he preferred them to the slide and the monkey bars.
Rich was mainly a smash and crash drummer with incredible speed and almost no subtlety. I'd take Louis Bellson over Rich any day of the week. Here's his live solo on Skin Deep.
  #52  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:35 PM
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Some of the Graceland stuff was also overblown, as he had permission to use the material and was later accused by a member of Ladysmith who felt he should have gotten more money.
Are you including Steve Berlin's accusations in the same pile?
  #53  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:37 PM
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Ginger Baker

Brilliant drummer and a complete a-hole, then and now. I met him 30+ years ago at a breakfast radio show and he while he wasn't a complete jerk, but he was arrogant, joking about if I was going to pay for his and his groups breakfast . I got his autograph figuring he'd be the first to go from Cream. Well he fooled me...he's not only still alive, but he's still (arguably) the best drummer around!
A few months ago I stumbled across "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix. I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole. It's no wonder Cream didn't last very long. (Of course, Jack Bruce was no slouch either when it came to being an asshole.)
  #54  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:39 PM
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Rich was mainly a smash and crash drummer with incredible speed and almost no subtlety. I'd take Louis Bellson over Rich any day of the week. Here's his live solo on Skin Deep.
Bellson, Connie Kay, Max Roach, Sid Catlett, Philly Joe Jones I would put ahead of Buddy Rich. But Buddy is still in my top dozen.

Seriously, catch the 1945 sessions with Prez and Nat Cole if you think Buddy couldn’t do subtle.
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Last edited by Ukulele Ike; 05-04-2019 at 07:42 PM.
  #55  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:53 PM
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I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole.
This 2013 interview is an instant classic . In person he must be just about the most insufferably difficult person in the world, especially if you are a journalist. But at a distance his "it-goes-to-11" curmudgeonliness is hilarious.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 05-04-2019 at 07:56 PM.
  #56  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:34 PM
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Bellson, Connie Kay, Max Roach, Sid Catlett, Philly Joe Jones I would put ahead of Buddy Rich. But Buddy is still in my top dozen.

Seriously, catch the 1945 sessions with Prez and Nat Cole if you think Buddy couldn’t do subtle.
Maybe Buddy Rich could do subtle. But that wasn't his style.


Quote:
"He was a weird guy. He's the only musician I've ever played with who had to get himself angry to get himself in the mood to play. I remember one time we were playing a ballad at a high school, and he hit the crash cymbal with the butt of his brush so hard he knocked it over. In the middle of a ballad, man!"
  #57  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:53 PM
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"(Rumor has it that just before he passed away, Bruce called Baker on the phone, said “Fuck you, I’m dying,” and hung up.)"

https://musicenthusiast.net/2016/10/...nt-and-modern/

Last edited by lingyi; 05-04-2019 at 08:53 PM.
  #58  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:00 PM
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Another Buddy Rich story, this time illustrated by the great Drew Friedman. It includes the call to Rich's wife after his death:

https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/Sound...Flipside03.jpg

https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/Sound...Flipside07.jpg
  #59  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:06 PM
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You truly have to detest someone on the very nextists of levels to draw these things after the man's death.
  #60  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:07 PM
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Another Buddy Rich story, this time illustrated by the great Drew Friedman. It includes the call to Rich's wife after his death:

https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/Sound...Flipside03.jpg

https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/Sound...Flipside07.jpg
Well, there's a username-post combo if I've ever seen one.
  #61  
Old 05-04-2019, 11:13 PM
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A few months ago I stumbled across "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix. I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole. It's no wonder Cream didn't last very long. (Of course, Jack Bruce was no slouch either when it came to being an asshole.)
I did watch it all the way to the end, and I felt like taking a decontamination-level shower afterwards.
  #62  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:16 AM
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I agree with this thread. And nominate Roger Waters to be a part of it.
  #63  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:19 AM
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It honestly would be more difficult for me to come up with a list of 10 musicians I like from the 60s.
  #64  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:25 AM
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Joan Baez. Can't stand that constant vibrato in her voice. She sounds like a soprano Dalek.
  #65  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:04 AM
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It honestly would be more difficult for me to come up with a list of 10 musicians I like from the 60s.
Got any nasty anecdotes about Tommy and Dickie Smothers? If not, two is a good start...
  #66  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:17 AM
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Got any nasty anecdotes about Tommy and Dickie Smothers? If not, two is a good start...
Tommy Smothers has a reputation for being egotistical and overbearing and has gotten on the nerves of more than a few people in the industry. One incident that seems especially noteworthy 43 years later is in 1976 when he ended up on the losing end of a brawl with Bill Cosby at the Playboy Mansion that started when Smothers kept taunting Cosby over the failure of his variety show on ABC.
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  #67  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:47 AM
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Joan Baez. Can't stand that constant vibrato in her voice. She sounds like a soprano Dalek.
OK, that made me laugh out loud. You win the internet quote of the day.
  #68  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:52 AM
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Tommy Smothers has a reputation for being egotistical and overbearing and has gotten on the nerves of more than a few people in the industry. One incident that seems especially noteworthy 43 years later is in 1976 when he ended up on the losing end of a brawl with Bill Cosby at the Playboy Mansion that started when Smothers kept taunting Cosby over the failure of his variety show on ABC.
I heard it was a sucker-punch, and I also heard that Clint Eastwood told Cosby, "You wanna try that on me?"
  #69  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:00 AM
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It honestly would be more difficult for me to come up with a list of 10 musicians I like from the 60s.
Melanie seems sweet.
  #70  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:14 AM
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A few months ago I stumbled across "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix. I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole. It's no wonder Cream didn't last very long. (Of course, Jack Bruce was no slouch either when it came to being an asshole.)
We watched Eric Clapton: Life in 12 Bars a while back. It went on about how it was Bruce that caused the most problems in Cream. To outdo Baker really takes effort.
  #71  
Old 05-05-2019, 10:08 AM
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ETA II: (Missed the edit deadline) Page has ONE adopted stepchild, and two biological children with that child's mother.
He has 3 daughters and 2 sons. His daughter Scarlet (who was in the wreck you mentioned) and his 2 sons are very obviously (by facial appearance) biologicaly his. Don't know about the other 2.
  #72  
Old 05-06-2019, 03:31 PM
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I confess I never really cared for the Monkees, the Doors, Blood Sweat & Tears, the Byrds, the Grateful Dead or Jefferson Airplane.
  #73  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:34 PM
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I confess I never really cared for the Monkees, the Doors, Blood Sweat & Tears, the Byrds, the Grateful Dead or Jefferson Airplane.
Anything wrong with them personally, or you just don’t like their music?

Incidentally, music-wise, you are right about the first three, wrong about the second three.
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  #74  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:54 PM
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Monkees had some great songs. (They may not have written most of them, but they -- or whoever -- recorded some great stuff. Not interested in getting into the nitty gritty of who wrote and played what, but a lot of "Monkees" work was fantastic, IMHO.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 05-06-2019 at 08:58 PM.
  #75  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:13 PM
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The Doors, as well. I’m just sick and tired of it through force-feeding from “classic rock” radio stations.

I also love early The Who, but the next time I hear Who’s Next I’m going the jam it up the DJ’s bunghole. The LP, not the CD.
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  #76  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:16 PM
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Anything wrong with them personally, or you just don’t like their music?....
I kind of resent and disrespect the Monkees for being faux-Beatles, but I like hardly any of the music of the groups I named.
  #77  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:24 PM
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So, not to be a nudge or a phoney moderator, but the OP was asking about disliking musicians personally, not whether you liked their music.

I was worried you were gonna reveal that Bob Weir was a secret masturbator, or that Jack Casady shook his naked wiener at little girls in Golden Gate Park, or that Roger McGuinn ordered his steak well-done.
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  #78  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:37 PM
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The Doors, as well.
Honestly, I like many more Monkees songs than Doors songs. I think the only Doors songs I really enjoy are "Peace Frog" and "Five To One."

But, yeah, I'm not sure I have anything really strong against Jim Morrison, as per this thread's title. I mean, he seems like a pretentious douche to me, but I never met him and don't know that to be a fact. And with the Monkees, they all seemed rather approachable and pleasant, no?
  #79  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:49 PM
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Never approach a Monkee.

https://www.straightdope.com/columns...ull-grown-man/
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  #80  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:07 AM
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Roy Estrada.
  #81  
Old 05-07-2019, 05:24 AM
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Honestly, I like many more Monkees songs than Doors songs. I think the only Doors songs I really enjoy are "Peace Frog" and "Five To One."

But, yeah, I'm not sure I have anything really strong against Jim Morrison, as per this thread's title. I mean, he seems like a pretentious douche to me, but I never met him and don't know that to be a fact. And with the Monkees, they all seemed rather approachable and pleasant, no?
Davy Jones was said to be a douchebag.
  #82  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:53 AM
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This 2013 interview is an instant classic . In person he must be just about the most insufferably difficult person in the world, especially if you are a journalist. But at a distance his "it-goes-to-11" curmudgeonliness is hilarious.
Wow, Baker is a real peach. How in the world is he married?
  #83  
Old 05-07-2019, 09:15 AM
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The power of money and fame cannot be over-emphasize.

I understand Bob Dylan has always been who he is, but that's part of his person. If I ever met him, I'm not sure I would like him.
  #84  
Old 05-07-2019, 09:40 AM
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Melanie seems sweet.
Melanie. She was on my old man's eclectic playlist and part of the soundtrack of my childhood (along with Leon Redbone and Leadbelly and Townes Van Zandt and Herb Alpert & his Marijuana Grass). I may as well have spent the 60s-70s on a different planet because I never meet anyone even familiar with the names, my age or even older. So with that, a Melanie cover, just for you! You're welcome.
  #85  
Old 05-07-2019, 09:50 AM
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Got any nasty anecdotes about Tommy and Dickie Smothers? If not, two is a good start...
I remember reading on the JREF website that Tommy is a huge believer in paranormal woo crap, and that he is friends with Uri Geller.

As for Jim Morrison, I always imagined that, had he lived, his personal and career arc would be very similar to Axl Rose's.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:59 AM
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Dickie Smothers used to race Formula One cars. I find that a lot weirder that the paranormal woo crap.
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  #87  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:07 AM
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Deep Purple weren't successful until the early 70s but they were formed in'68 so I must mention Richie Blackmore. What a twat. I saw a "where are they now" type of show that I think was done recently.

He seemed the most miserable, self aggrandizing prick, with nothing good to say about anyone. He's still got that ridiculous shag hairdo that he now slathers with shoe black and does some kind of . . musical theatre(?) with his much younger wife. Not that couples with large age differences is grounds for disdain or anything, but he just seems so old and cranky and unaware how he comes off and she "seems" (can't really tell by the short time she was featured) like a (beautiful) flake.
  #88  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:58 AM
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The Doors, as well. I’m just sick and tired of it through force-feeding from “classic rock” radio stations.

I also love early The Who, but the next time I hear Who’s Next I’m going the jam it up the DJ’s bunghole. The LP, not the CD.
Good choice - the LP will break up into shards on the way in.

Seriously, that's why I stopped listening to classic rock stations. Who's Next is a fucking awesome record, but I found myself pushing the button to change the station whenever a song from that album came on. And that was just one example of many.
  #89  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:03 PM
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Who's Next is a fucking awesome record, but...
The shortened version of Won't Get Fooled makes me want to die. The Who had a few songs of real consequence that also never age. It hurts my soul to hear one chopped up because commercialism.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:08 PM
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So, not to be a nudge or a phoney moderator, but the OP was asking about disliking musicians personally, not whether you liked their music.
Tru dat. But I'm gonna do the music part anyway, because frankly I've never learned much about musicians' personalities - it just isn't important to me.

Also, before I opened the thread, I figured I'd come up with a list before I was influenced by others'. So I Googled the Billboard Top 100 songs of 1966-1969, and I've got a bunch of names that have mostly been overlooked here:

Tom Jones
Bobby Goldsboro
Gary Puckett
Bee Gees
Barry Sadler
Engelbert Humperdinck
Frankie Valli
Lou Christie
Oliver
Bobby Vee

FWIW, I agree with the prevailing sentiments about David Crosby: I figured out back in 1971 that if a CSN or CSN&Y song really dragged, it was almost surely written by Crosby: "Almost Cut My Hair," "Triad," "Long Time Gone" - zzzzz. But the guys on my list make Crosby look good.
  #91  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:12 PM
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And if George Harrison is to be believed, McCartney was just as big an asshole.
I never heard this, and it sounds interesting. Can somebody direct me to where I can read about it?
  #92  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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I never heard this, and it sounds interesting. Can somebody direct me to where I can read about it?
I don't know for sure, but it may be about the tension between McCartney and Harrison in the studio. From All The Songs: The Story Behind Every Beatles Release:
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The production of Sgt. Pepper must not have been easy for George. Paul assumed more and more dominance over the group and he became more authoritarian. He took away many guitar solos from George, too often reducing his participation to shaking maracas.
and (describing the recording of the song "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"):
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George then added solo guitar. After numerous failed attempts, Paul grabbed the guitar with no consideration for poor George and performed a superb solo
And here's Paul, looking back on those years (quoted in Conversations with McCartney):
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I got on George’s wick, particularly. There’d been a few little things. The kind of thing that happened would be like in ‘Hey Jude’ [made the previous summer]. I had the idea to make it very simple and build towards the end. So I wanted, ‘Hey Jude, don’t make it bad, duh-duh-duh,’ just very simple.

George, when we were rehearsing it, was going ‘Hey Jude,’ [big guitar riff] dang-diddle-da-da, ‘don’t make it bad,’ dang-diddle-da-da … ‘George, do us a favour, man. Don’t play it. We’ll have a solo later or something, but don’t answer every phrase, it’s gonna get boring very soon.’ [Sullen] ‘OK. Fuckin’ won’t do it then.’ It was getting like that.

Locked horns. Young males was what it was. Now, knowing animals, stallions and rams, I know they’re all at it. If they come of age, locked horns, it’s what they do....

So there we were, mature males locking horns. And George, one day [10 January 1969] he just wasn’t there after lunch. It was like: ‘Mee-ting! Shit, what have we done?’ ‘Well, he’s real offended man, you’ve been over the top, bossing him around, and he’s just as important as you are.’ This is true, I needed telling off, I suppose.
  #93  
Old 05-07-2019, 01:04 PM
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For a vain, egotistical, arrogant piece of shit like Paul McCartney to be only the SECOND biggest asshole in The Beatles really says what a truly nasty thing John Lennon was.

(and for the record, I think McCartney and Lennon, together and in their solo careers, both wrote some of the most iconic, important songs of the 20th Century. Two legendary creative artists, two small, ugly, vile little men)

Last edited by Royal Nonesutch; 05-07-2019 at 01:06 PM.
  #94  
Old 05-07-2019, 01:27 PM
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Thudlow @92:. Paul grabbed George’s guitar and proceeded to play an excellent solo?

Did Paul suddenly become right-handed, or did he play the guitar upside-down? Sounds like something Mozart would do on the fortepiano to impress the other boozers.

Mozart was supposed to be somewhat of a dick, also.
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  #95  
Old 05-07-2019, 02:31 PM
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Melanie. She was on my old man's eclectic playlist and part of the soundtrack of my childhood (along with Leon Redbone and Leadbelly and Townes Van Zandt and Herb Alpert & his Marijuana Grass). I may as well have spent the 60s-70s on a different planet because I never meet anyone even familiar with the names, my age or even older. So with that, a Melanie cover, just for you! You're welcome.
I thought it was going to be Miley....and I would have been fine with it.
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:08 PM
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My ten and why:
Bobby Beausoleil - Manson Family member and convicted murderer
Ray Collins - Convicted pedophile/child rapist
Gary Glitter - Convicted pedophile
Lou Reed - Asshole who spent way too much time and energy dissing other artists
Glen Frye - General asshole. Held his grudge against Don Felder far too long over far too little
John Lennon - Insufferably egotistical asshole, child neglecter (the first one anyway), and occasional wife beater
Paul Simon - Egotistical douche bag
John Fogarty - Asshole totally dismissive of the contributions and importance of his band mates
Mark Farner - You have to see the VH1 Behind the Music episode on GFRR to appreciate what a dumb douche this guy is
Joan Jett - Made a career out of an act she swiped from Suzy Quatro.
  #97  
Old 05-07-2019, 03:27 PM
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Oops, my apology to Ray Collins. I meant Roy Estrada. Wrong mother.
  #98  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:06 PM
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My ten and why:
...
Joan Jett - Made a career out of an act she swiped from Suzy Quatro.
I have no idea if this is true, and I have no problem believing it.
  #99  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:11 PM
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I was horrified to read the story behind the making of Trout Mask Replica and to learn how evilly Captain Beefheart abused the members of his Magic Band: keeping them confined, not paying them, starving them, and subjecting them to emotional and physical abuse until they broke down in tears and were subjugated to his paranoid schizophrenia. It sounds like an absolute destructive-cult nightmare.
  #100  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:19 AM
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We watched Eric Clapton: Life in 12 Bars a while back. It went on about how it was Bruce that caused the most problems in Cream. To outdo Baker really takes effort.
I haven't seen the movie, but Baker has Bruce beat because he was a a-hole before and after Cream!

Hate the man, love his music!

Last edited by lingyi; 05-08-2019 at 02:19 AM.
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