Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:43 AM
purplehorseshoe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 9,851
When Jaime walked into the chamber and sees Cersei ...

... man, I really wanted that to be Arya wearing his face, about to assassinate the queen.
__________________
I can haz sig line?
  #102  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:46 AM
Fear Itself is offline
One of Cecil's six friends
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Flavortown
Posts: 35,737
You people don't seriously believe Jaime and Cersei are dead, do you?

Really?
  #103  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:49 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by robby View Post
Well, that was depressing.

I guess Ramsay Bolton had it right about the happy ending.
Would have been a damn better ruler than Mrs Drago, Mater Dracones.
  #104  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:57 AM
GreysonCarlisle's Avatar
GreysonCarlisle is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Take the black??What black? What would a new Nights Watch be watching for exactly?
Gotta have a place for the lords to send their unwanted sons.
  #105  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:05 AM
magnusblitz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
You people don't seriously believe Jaime and Cersei are dead, do you?

Really?
You really think they're NOT dead?
  #106  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:23 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnusblitz View Post
You really think they're NOT dead?
They're hanging out with Stannis.
  #107  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:32 AM
Sam Stone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 27,878
They are deader than doornails.

Bereft of life, they rest in peace. They are ex-Lannisters.

<Whap Whap>(Smacks Cercei's corpse)

Wakey Wakey, Mrs. Lannister! I have a nice cuttlefish for you! <Whap Whap>

"Now that's what I call an ex-Lannister."

If they find one of them groaning in the rubble, it will really cheapen what was actually a fairly touching and appropriate end to their lives. They both got their wish to die in the arms of the one they loved.

But Cercei deserved far worse. But you know what? Isn't Daeneris even more evil? I mean, Cercei didn't really care about the people, but Daeneris was actually killing innocent people with murderous intent. Hundreds of thousands of them. And since that's likely unacceptable to Jon Snow and Tyrion and Ser Davos and pretty much the entirety of Westeros, she has a real problem. She can rule by fear and become the thing she supposedly came to destroy, or she can... what? Kill herself? Just leave on her dragon? I suspect a more tragic end.

But before we think she was sweetness and light before, don't forget that she was perfectly happy to be married to a guy who pretty much made his living doing exactly what the Dothraki were doing in King's Landing - raping and pillaging. And taking slaves. The Dothraki are not a model of liberal morality, and Daeneris was totally okay with that.

But one of the best things about this episode were the visuals. I mean come on, when everyone was standing around the gate looking nervous and hearing dragon sounds over the city, wasn't it just amazing when the city walls blew out into the Golden Company? That was pretty shocking, and really well done.

The scenes of Drogon strafing King's Landing were just amazing. The animators really did a great job this season giving you a sense of the sheer mass and inertia of a dragon - something that's often missing in CGI. Some of those scenes were truly terrifying and got through the chaos that must have existed in that city.

CleganeBowl was some fan service, but man, what a setting for the fight - on crumbing stairs with flames from a dragon lighting up the background. It was very Mount Doom-ish. And it makes sense that the Hound couldn't kill FrankenMountain, because I'm guessing you'd need Valyrian steel or maybe DragonGlass, if Clyburn used the same magic to resurrect him that the Night King used. But of course, fire also works. I thought it was a clever way to also make the Hound and his brother die in a fire. Sure, it was fan service and pretty by-the-numbers, but really well done.

As a pure spectacle, the episode was amazing.
  #108  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:39 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,698
Hey Sam, Bran and Sansa....well fucking done (Slow clap) gooooood jawwwwwb.

Especially if I hear next ep that Bran watched the whole thing, and in THAT ep wargs into Drogan.
  #109  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:56 AM
gupwalla is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
You people don't seriously believe Jaime and Cersei are dead, do you?

Really?
"La fatal pietra sovra me si chiuse." Exactly as dead as that.
  #110  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:08 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,780
They are dead—or sure better be. It would definitely be really cheap to bring either of them back.

My son texted me his thoughts about the episode, but I think they are too interwoven with book knowledge to post. I can report that he did say it was the second best episode of the season after 2, but that this was a low bar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCube View Post
Stick around and watch The Wire, Deadwood Rome, and The Sopranos if you haven't already.

Chernobyl! Second episode premieres tomorrow night. The first was super intense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Bronn...we've decided to give you Kings Landing.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 05-13-2019 at 02:09 AM.
  #111  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:52 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
My son texted me his thoughts about the episode, but I think they are too interwoven with book knowledge to post.

Now he has provided me a safe, redacted version:


Quote:
So that was a lot of things. Certainly the second best episode of the season so far after 2, but that's not a high bar, and there were certainly some massive problems:

1. Dany burning everyone. Letting her soldiers rape and pillage is one thing. Destroying the Red Keep and Cersei is one thing. These are the actions of vengeful conquerors throughout history, and Dany seems like she falls in line with these. But burning everyone in the city? That makes no sense. She just snapped, apparently. The buildup from the previous seasons shows her becoming vengeful and hardened, not insane. It's stupid how Jon not having sex with her made her go "well since I'm not loved by the people or by my lover and have lost the ones I loved, I guess I'll just kill everyone. I spent seasons upon seasons freeing slaves and liberating people, but yknow what? Fuck that shit".

2. The black and white morals. So Tyrion went from "I saved you. I saved all of you. I should have let Stannis kill you all. I wish I had enough poison for everyone in King's Landing" to "no Dany whatabout the GENEVA CONVENTION? You can't let people die in a war! Nevermind that this is clearly modern writers projecting modern morals on a medieval show!" And instead of just letting the city surrender what would be reasonable? Sieging the city? Storming the gates? Having Arya assassinate Cersei? Fly straight to Cersei and destroy the Red Keep, terrifying the rest of the city into submission, which was her goal to rule by fear? Nah, burn literally everyone alive. That makes sense. Gotta either kill no one or kill everyone, right?

3. So I guess Jaime's character arc was a circle, huh. What a fucking waste of time, jfc. Also "I don't care about the innocents of King's Landing", the fuck? You charged at Dany suicidally to try to end the war, you betrayed your oath and killed the Mad King to save the city. The fuck is this nonsense.

4. Varys being stupid as usual these days. The Varys of old would not have blabbed so openly about treason. So much for the master of whisperers.

5. Oh yeah didn't Varys literally save his life? What a bitch move to rat on him like that, Tyrion.

6. Euron Greyjoy. Just ugh. So he happens to wash up at the EXACT same hidden shore that Jaime was at, dueled and crippled man for no reason in the corniest way possible, and lost. Then bragged about how "I killed Jaime Lannister". Dude you killed a fucking dragon, I think that's more of an accomplishment. What a shit character. On that note...

7. The retconning of episodes 3 and 4 were quite amusing. So we saw literally nobody but the main characters alive by the end of episode 3, yet now she has hundreds if not thousands of unsullied and Dothraki left, lol okay. Plus now those super weapon ballistas actually somewhat make sense and are inaccurate and slow as fuck, made sense they were ineffective and got destroyed. Rhaegal shouldn't be dead...

9. So after all this buildup, it's just gonna go the nihilist route? Better than the cliche Hollywood ending I suppose, but it doesn't feel earned or very well foreshadowed. If they were gonna go the nihilist route they should have had Dany's descent done better or have the Night King win.

That's all for now but there's more, oh boy there's more.
  #112  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:57 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
I'm happy that Danaerys turned badly. I've never could see her as the good guy, since she burned alive Drogo's assassin in season 1. I hoped during all these years that she would turn into a tyran, not just because I didn't like her, but because it made for a much more interesting ending.

I was expecting a more progressive change, however. And not something as extreme as that. At first, I thought that such a sudden decision to "burn them all" wasn't believable. Then I thought that she was the daughter of her father. Crazy under the surface, and able to suddenly start a murderous rampage if put under pressure. I don't know what to think of it, but I still find this ending satisfying.

Regarding Cersei and Jaime, at the very end I was expecting a mercy killing that would have satisfied the prophecy. I assume they're actually dead. Especially since there's only one episode left, so they won't have time to give a second, different resolution to their story.

Noted like many others that characters, dragons, armies, ballistas, etc... can be one moment devastatingly efficient and the next episode totally useless depending on what is required by the scenario. Doesn't bother me too much anymore at this point, though.

Varys (contrarily to some, I had no issue with his death, contrarily to that of Littlefinger. Seemed in character and satisfying to me) said that Jon Snow would make a good king, but he appears to me even more useless than usual. I can't see him ruling Westeros.

Like most apparently I expect now that Arya will murder Danaerys (or maybe she'll commit suicide? Seems a posibility because she isn't evil at heart, and despite her "then it will be fear" statement, I think she won't forgive herself for what she has done). What will happen to Jon? I would guess the night watch (might be another Night King in one thousand years, who knows?) or turning widling.


It seems to me that now Sansa has a good shot at the throne (and she's basically the last woman standing, since I take as granted that Danaerys is a goner), and a new marriage with Tyrion wouldn't surprise me.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #113  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:10 AM
nate is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 875
Great episode if I hadn't seen the early seasons of GoT, but the tropes that continue to be rolled out just take me out of it:

1. Varys being dumbed down since the source material ran out.
2. BIG ONE: Dany's quick change from being really paranoid to just deciding to burn down the entire city
3. BIGGEST ONE: Euron showing up on the beach that Jamie wound up on, AND of course they fight to the death, AND of course Jamie received a mortal wound, AND of course, well it turns out it's not quite fatal, so he crawls to a sword while Euron watches and ends up killing Euron with it. And then gets up like nothing happened and walks up tons of stairs to magically run into Cersei.
4. Dany never burning the Red Keep castle.
5. No shots of Dany after she started burning the city.

I guess Jamie DID just pump and dump Briene.

I don't know why Arya waited until they were in the heart of the Keep for her to listen to Hound's advice.

Last edited by nate; 05-13-2019 at 03:11 AM.
  #114  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:21 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
By the way, what is the significance of the "pale horse"? It vaguely rings a bell, but nothing more...
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #115  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:24 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate View Post
I guess Jamie DID just pump and dump Briene.
I know interpret his fling with Brienne as an attempt to get over his obsession with Cersei. He tried, failed, and came back to Cersei.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #116  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:31 AM
Maserschmidt's Avatar
Maserschmidt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 5,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
By the way, what is the significance of the "pale horse"? It vaguely rings a bell, but nothing more...
“Death rides a pale horse....”
  #117  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:41 AM
by-tor's Avatar
by-tor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 978
Arya Stark: The Force
Plot Armour is strong with this one.
  #118  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:16 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
I know interpret his fling with Brienne as an attempt to get over his obsession with Cersei. He tried, failed, and came back to Cersei.
Somehow I couldn't finish my post. I expected that Jaime was going back to King's Landing to put Cersei out of her misery. I had expected during the whole series that Jaime would kill Cersei for the exact same reasons he had killed the mad king. But now I think that indeed this would have made no sense. He loved her all his life, and she has been pretty much the only thing he really cared about. So, him having such a massive change of heart and deciding to kill her, for any reason whatsoever, or switching to another woman, wouldn't have been plausible. It makes much more sense this way.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #119  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:19 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maserschmidt View Post
“Death rides a pale horse....”
I was unaware of this sentence, I had to google it. I thought the pale horse was some reference to something in GoT.

Well, that's an interesting image, then. Do you think that this was the meaning of this horse? They lingered a lot on it, as it had some peculiar sense, and I wondered why.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #120  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:21 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
She didn't kill the servants.
She had to kill some of them to get their faces.
  #121  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:22 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,044
Arya is a faceless man, who are trained assassins.
  #122  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:29 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
She had to kill some of them to get their faces.
We don't really know whose face she was wearing. Might have been a face she brought with her. Lord Frey at least doesn't identify her.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #123  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:45 AM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,043
I loved this episode. I found it so good that it erased much of my dissatisfaction with the past couple episodes. In retrospect, when looking at the season as a whole, I don't hate the storyboard:

8.1: Get all the characters to Winterfell
8.2: Let the audience make peace with all the deaths we know are coming
8.3: Resolve the night king
8.4: Kill a dragon by surprise (to us and Dany) and drive a wedge between Dany and Jon
8.5: Dany burns King's Landing

In retrospect, my main objection is the execution of 8.4. Specifically the ballistas, which were unstoppable in one episode and then inept the next. I like the story idea of a surprise attack killing a dragon. Quite a bit, actually. But the presentation of that story was patently absurd: Euron hid a dozen boats behind a rock and then hit the target at range before the dragons were even aware of them? Come on. Then the next episode one dragon kills all the ballistas?

I like the story idea of the surprise attack, and I like the story idea of a single full grown dragon annihilating a fleet and a city. In fact, I kind of love those story ideas. But the way they presented it in 8.4 was full of suck. I would much prefer it if Dany and both dragons saw the ships, started an attack run and then the ships manage to take out one dragon just as Dany's dragon burns them all, including Euron. Euron wasn't required in 8.5 at all; Jaime could have gotten hurt any number of ways before finding Cersei if he had to be mortally wounded in that scene.

In every case I can think of, my complaints are about poor presentation to enhance tension in an unearned way. After 8.4 it looked like dragons were useless, then in 8.5 dragons are invulnerable? The only explanation for 8.4 leaving that impression is so that the audience at home would think the siege of KL would at best be a fair fight, at worst Dany's forces wouldn't stand a chance.

But why can't the audience know going into 8.5 that KL doesn't stand a chance if Dany decides to rage out? That would still offer tension and anticipation, but not in such a ridiculous "mmo devs rebalanced a unit" way.

Similarly, the battle tactics in 8.3 were comically bad solely to provide cool visual shots. The dothraki charge looked cool enough to warrant it, but the rest of that battle should have been better executed. Seriously, there would have been no change if Team Living put their trebuchets inside the walls and just kept up a non-stop barrage on Team Dead for the entire battle. Maybe they kill an extra 10,000 wights that way, but it wouldn't be enough to change the battle significantly. Plus it would look cool and people wouldn't have been grousing so much about stupid tactics.

Given that many/most of my remaining complaints come down to showrunner decisions on how to present the story specifically as a tv show, I can't be overly critical. It is, after all, a tv show.

For example, Jon telling Dany before the battle in 8.3 feels 100% like a "make this a tv show" decision. Why couldn't that have happened after Dany sees all the love Jon gets at the start of 8.4? It would have been a great scene for the actors; imagine Dany fighting her insecurity about the people's love of Jon only to then hear Jon tell her he's the rightful heir to the throne. Ouch!
  #124  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:00 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Boy Qyburn's arc was stupid. Somehow this deceitful, emotionless character remains loyal to Cersei to the stupid, pointless end? Any vizier worth their salt would have abandoned Cersei and fled to pre-arranged safety (like Varys several seasons ago) at the first sign that the battle was lost.

I did like that he was killed for trying to stop Cleganebowl, though!

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-13-2019 at 05:01 AM.
  #125  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:08 AM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreysonCarlisle View Post
Loved the last bit from Previously, on Game of Thrones where Mad Dany had all those voices in her head. Recaps aren't usually that creative.
Agreed. That was an excellent moment.

In my previous post I talked about my complaints stemming from them applying tv show standards to the story, but in most cases I love their "make it a tv show" decisions. This was one example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
And what of Tyrion? His track record for good decision-making this season is just about zero.
Absolutely. Tyrion has become an intellectual Warf. (Warf, the super strong battle master klingon, got his ass kicked by every enemy who ever set foot on the bridge just to establish how badass the enemy was.) Tyrion is now outsmarted by everyone just to establish how smart they are, which is a terrible thing to do to the character of Tyrion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
if you want the plot to go there, you just need a scene where Bran at the end says, "It is not over. Even now, the forces of the dead begin to grow in the North. One day, they will come back."
That wouldn't work at all. We saw the Night King being made by the children of the forest, and we saw every single undead thing (except the Mountain!) die when the NK died.

The only way they come back is if the children make another NK, and there's no in-story way that can happen since the children have fought against them for millenia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
It's frustrating that we don't actually see them die, and I imagine Daernerys will be obsessed with finding Cersei's body.
Oh lord, not another week of the equivalent of "Brienne didn't kill Stannis because they didn't show it!" type speculation. Please, anything but that.
  #126  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:38 AM
Smid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 904
I was watching it on a train in the sunlight, and did not catch any specific death of Cersei and Jamie (and indeed Qyburn), and rules of GOT is that if not seen killed, then not dead...

Arya got buildings dropped on her multiple times, and involved in crushes, and survived. I expect C&J to have made it, despite a serious gutwound. Just the way of GOT. Escaped to Pentos, and still alive, and plotting their return.
  #127  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:47 AM
Go_Arachnid_Laser is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smid View Post
I expect C&J to have made it, despite a serious gutwound. Just the way of GOT. Escaped to Pentos, and still alive, and plotting their return.
We do see them die- The basement they're trapped in collapses and they're buried by the rubble.
  #128  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:58 AM
Smid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go_Arachnid_Laser View Post
We do see them die- The basement they're trapped in collapses and they're buried by the rubble.
I'm still not completely convinced, but will take it as read, I barely could see some of the episode. However, I'd not be surprised if they did make it. Arya looked a goner for the same reasons all through the last 30 minutes.
  #129  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:59 AM
Cheesesteak's Avatar
Cheesesteak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lovely Montclair, NJ
Posts: 13,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
Tyrion is now outsmarted by everyone just to establish how smart they are,
Tyrion has certainly failed, but I don't think anyone who "outsmarted" him is better off than they would have been by following his advice.


I didn't see it noted by anyone else, but the backstory for the Hound and the Mountain is that the Hound's face was half burned off because his big brother, the Mountain, shoved his head in a fire when they were kids.
  #130  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:21 AM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,263
This episode was brutal but I enjoyed it and feel it was very much in character for everyone. Some thoughts.

Varys died as he lived: jumping from side to side. You only can do that so many times.

Tyrion and Jaime's hug was wonderful.

The image of the Dragon's shadow over King's Landing goes all the way back to a vision Bran had like four seasons ago.

The theme of this episode was vengeance. The Hound literally died for his but not before he was able to teach Arya how empty it is to live your life that way. And Dany finally said, "Fuck this entire place for what you did to me and my family. A Targearyan built it and one will now tear it to the ground!". She aways wanted to give into her worst impulses but usually had Jorah or Tyrion to hold her back. No longer. Maybe Jon will reel her back. Maybe not.

It's interesting that Cersei (and Jaime) died in such a way that people within the show will never be fully sure they died. Even though she is awful, if Dany is worse I could see her become some sort of folk hero to the Smallfolk, "Maybe Cersei will come back some day to save us. I hears she's in Pentos gathering an army".

It is also right in line with this show that Cersei never had a reckoning for the terrible things she did and she got to be in her lover's arms when she died.
  #131  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:30 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,916
I guess they need to figure out how to quickly reunite the people at Winterfell with the Kings Landing group. But traveling a long way in a short time has not been an issue in the past .
  #132  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:36 AM
N9IWP is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southeast MN
Posts: 6,182
It is not a comic book show but close -- but the rule is if you do not see someone actually die, they can return alive. (Shrödinger's character)
So for sure dead: Varys, Sandor, The Mountain.
Did we actually see Qyburn die?
We did NOT see Euron nor Jaime/Cersei actually die, though I wouldn't bet on them being alive.

Oh, and Happy Mother of Dragon's day! (it just occurred to me)

Brian
  #133  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:39 AM
Snarky_Kong is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,170
Yes, Qyburn had his brains splattered all over the rubble, he's gone.
  #134  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:40 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,916
but even really dead people can come back like Jon Snow and the guy with the flaming sword
  #135  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:42 AM
Shakester's Avatar
Shakester is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,071
About the Dothraki - we didn't see it two weeks ago because it was too dark, but I watched some YouTube videos where people had upped the brightness and contrast in parts of ep 8.3 and quite a few of the Dothraki can be seen retreating back through the lines as Jorah and Ghost returned. They were decimated, but not wiped out.

I expect that when this season comes out on DVD, that ep will be a lot lighter.
  #136  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:52 AM
N9IWP is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southeast MN
Posts: 6,182
Remember the Hound? Granted his wound wasn't as bad as Euron's, but he lived.
I'm not sure there are any Red Priest(ese)s available, (though there certainly could get one) and can/would they resurrect someone now that the Night King is dead?

Brian
  #137  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:54 AM
Snarky_Kong is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,170
I don't think the Red God would bring anyone back now that the Night King is dead.
  #138  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:11 AM
Hellestal is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Storyland
Posts: 2,025
Well that was a helluva thing to see. Never seen anything quite like that before.



Where they shit the bed for the set-up to this was Season 7. Burning to death Sam's family was NOT sufficient narrative prep work. This spectacle would have been a lot less jarring if there had been a small city/fortress/castle that was genuinely fighting to the last man in Season 7, or at least thought they wanted to do that. No civvies, all soldiers -- and therefore fewer moral concerns about the attack. And she was all like, fuck it, I want to preserve my army, not waste my time on these twerps. So she does a strafing run just like she did here. Burns them all out, no quarter, burns the whole castle down. Everyone is ash.

If she had done something kinda-sorta-similar-ish before, but on much smaller scale, then it would have been easier to imagine her choice.

I had no idea what the "choice" she was making at the time. It literally did not occur to me that she might do that, until it was already done. Like... there was just no rational point to it. Whatsoever. I knew they were building up to something, my wife was all "this is weird, when is the other shoe going to drop?" We just didn't know it was indiscriminate mass murder coming up. Narratively, it would have been much easier to see her flip her lid if she'd done something "similar" before. If she was just doing something that had worked for her before on smaller scale. "Burn out all the defenders and spare my army". Except she was mis-applying the lesson because of the tension, resorting to previous successes because she is now insane.




That was a bloody amazing thing to see, tho. WOW. Fuckin incredible.
  #139  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:16 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,916
reminded me of the Braveheart scene where the king said it was OK to fire arrows into the battle even though his own troops were also getting killed by the arrows. He made some comment that the troops were cheap to get.
  #140  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:19 AM
msmith537 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii
Boy Qyburn's arc was stupid. Somehow this deceitful, emotionless character remains loyal to Cersei to the stupid, pointless end? Any vizier worth their salt would have abandoned Cersei and fled to pre-arranged safety (like Varys several seasons ago) at the first sign that the battle was lost.

I did like that he was killed for trying to stop Cleganebowl, though!
I liked how Cercei kind of just scooted past the Clegane Brothers once she realized that The Hound wasn't actually there for her.




Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
I was unaware of this sentence, I had to google it. I thought the pale horse was some reference to something in GoT.

Well, that's an interesting image, then. Do you think that this was the meaning of this horse? They lingered a lot on it, as it had some peculiar sense, and I wondered why.
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."
Revelations 6:8

It references the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I'm surprised you've never heard it. The line is referenced a lot in film and tv.
  #141  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:24 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellestal View Post

If she had done something kinda-sorta-similar-ish before, but on much smaller scale, then it would have been easier to imagine her choice.

I had no idea what the "choice" she was making at the time. It literally did not occur to me that she might do that, until it was already done. Like... there was just no rational point to it.
That's not a rational choice, that's a psychotic break. She's demented, like her father was. It was just bubbling under the surface until now.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #142  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:26 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
That's not a rational choice, that's a psychotic break. She's demented, like her father was. It was just bubbling under the surface until now.
That seems to be how it was presented, but IMO that's not particularly interesting, narratively speaking. Much more interesting would be some long, slow process in which someone susceptible to madness was driven so by a combination of their own decisions and outside events. I blame the writers.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-13-2019 at 07:26 AM.
  #143  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:11 AM
AK84 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,044
Lots of angst on Twitter, since apparently Dany is a feminist icon.
I mean, the women who had been burning people alive since season 1, might not be stable, who’d have thought.
  #144  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:13 AM
gupwalla is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
I don't think the Red God would bring anyone back now that the Night King is dead.
Could he ever?
  #145  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:21 AM
Smid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 904
Wot, no kingsguard?

Well, apart from Frankengregor.
  #146  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:22 AM
Isosleepy's Avatar
Isosleepy is offline
Friend of Cecil
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,496
Danny girl’s turn to the crazy makes perfectly fine sense to me. We’re told over and over that this runs in the family. Her dad wanted to “Burn them all” before being persuaded not to by being made dead by Jamie. The in-story characters know this: “fortune flips a coin every time a Targaryen is born”. It’s not unheard of in real life either: Caligula was apparently a fine emperor before diving head-first into the crazy, and (maybe less convincingly) similar is true for Nero.

As to who sits the iron throne in the end: first off, it doesn’t really matter. The seven kingdoms are in ruin, the social infrastructure is shattered, a significant portion of the working-age population is dead. First concerns will be getting agriculture started back up, and for families to pick up the pieces of what’s left, with whom is left. Second, the notion of birthright is out the window. For centuries nobility was a thin veneer of civility overlaying the naked power grab of the first Targaryen king, and the noble houses ditto. So the throne belongs to whomever can take it and keep it from being taken.

Pretty sure right now in Westeros, if you control a dragon, you control everything. If there’s no one controlling a dragon, it’s open season, and a united seven kingdoms becomes very unlikely.
  #147  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:26 AM
Isosleepy's Avatar
Isosleepy is offline
Friend of Cecil
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,496
Also lol Golden Company. Much talked about, finally seen (disappointingly sans elephants) only to be toast before ever seeing action. Bit of a hot mess.
  #148  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:31 AM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 10,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smid View Post
Wot, no kingsguard?

Well, apart from Frankengregor.
They were very prominently there. Sandor cut through them like tissue paper.
  #149  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:34 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,916
Since Dany getting killed is now expected I would not bet on it happening.
  #150  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:36 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,698
(Sigh) So many people with Targaryen tattoos. So many kids named Dany or Khalessi....gotta watch til the end people!!
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017