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  #251  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:25 PM
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Was this in this episode? I don't remember seeing that.
Yes. Very first scene. She comes in as he is writing a message to someone revealing Jon's parentage and she tells him Danaerys isn't eating and that the soldiers are watching her. It wasn't absolutely obvious to me on first watching but on rewatching it's clear.

It's not exactly clear how Dany found out. She knows before Tyrion tells her who it was. Maybe she toasted the kitchen girl earlier to find out.

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  #252  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:28 PM
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HAHAHAHA oh God...the Burlington Bar reactions are everything I hoped they would be...

"YEEEEahhhh...hh...h...should I be cheering? Are we the baddies?? Am I a bad person for cheering all these years when she roasted people alive???"
  #253  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through.

I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn't happen, though.
  #254  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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Yes. Very first scene. She comes in as he is writing a message to someone revealing Jon's parentage and she tells him Danaerys isn't eating and that the soldiers are watching her. It wasn't absolutely obvious to me on first watching but on rewatching its clear.
Oh ok, I saw that. I thought she meant the soldiers were watching her spying on Danaerys.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:30 PM
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Was this in this episode? I don't remember seeing that.
Yes, first scene.
  #256  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:31 PM
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Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through.

I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn't happen, though.
I think he was just following her lead.
  #257  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:37 PM
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Oh ok, I saw that. I thought she meant the soldiers were watching her spying on Danaerys.
Yes, but the fact that she's working in the kitchen and Varys is perturbed by Danaerys not eating make it clear what's going on, knowing Varys' opinion.
  #258  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:42 PM
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Yes, but the fact that she's working in the kitchen and Varys is perturbed by Danaerys not eating make it clear what's going on, knowing Varys' opinion.
Maybe he had a special "I'm Sorry" cake that he wanted to present to Dani?
  #259  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:44 PM
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Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through.

I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn't happen, though.
She did tall Greyworm to go forward with his attack-- he'll know when. I think torching the people was a pretty good sign.

Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday's belt in the fire?
  #260  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:45 PM
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Yes. He had enlisted the kitchen girl to do it. That's why he was concerned that Danaerys wasn't eating. What I couldn't figure out was who he was writing the messages concerning Jon's parentage to, and how he was going to smuggle them out.
I assumed they would be sent by ravens to the main lords of Westeros.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:46 PM
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The cinematography in this episode was incredible, and the dragons some of the best fantastic creature cgi I've seen in anything. The actors were giving their all with the Hound and Arya as highlights. Too bad the writing and script couldn't be better or this episode could have been an all time great.
  #262  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Sexual frustration after being denied by her nephew.
Gal needs to learn to masturbate. A nice hitachi wand or ivory pleasure rod could have saved thousands of lives.
  #263  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:52 PM
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She did tall Greyworm to go forward with his attack-- he'll know when. I think torching the people was a pretty good sign.
Wasn't that referring to the doorway exploding all over the Golden-brown Company?

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Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday's belt in the fire?
That the collar was her only possession, the only thing she brought across the Narrow Sea.
  #264  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:52 PM
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I'm not sure she was sure in her own mind she was going to go all Blood and Fire before the battle. But I think that in the heat of the moment (pun intended) she snapped emotionally.

This was really laid out earlier in her conversation with Jon. She's given up hope that the Westerosi will ever love her, so she must rule by fear. And burning the city will certainly put fear into anyone who survives.

She's also realized, I think, that when this is all over she will have to eliminate Jon. When he doesn't reciprocate her kiss, she understands she's lost him. She no longer cares about his opinion. As long as he lives, he will be a threat to her rule, so if she takes the throne he's toast.
Was the pun in the last bit intended as well? I agree that Jon is a dead man walking. Tyrion might have the sense to slip away, but Jon doesn't have the sense that god gave a goose, so he'll walk straight up to her and tell her she needs to step down because she's crazy. And he'll probably be just as surprised the second time he is killed as he was the first time.
  #265  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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I assumed they would be sent by ravens to the main lords of Westeros.
I believe that the messenger ravens are trained and maintained by maesters. We've seen neither maesters nor ravens at Dragonstone.

Not a major issue, since someone like Varys could probably find someone to smuggle them out. I'm going to bet that that scene meant that he did get some out, and in the final episode we'll see some of the kingdoms go over to Jon instead of Danaerys based on that information. But that might be superfluous since they would probably prefer him anyway regardless of ancestry.
  #266  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:55 PM
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She did tall Greyworm to go forward with his attack-- he'll know when. I think torching the people was a pretty good sign.

Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday's belt in the fire?
Was that some "burn it all down" foreshadowing there? Because Grey Worm sure seemed to be itching for some massacreing as well.
  #267  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:57 PM
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She did tall Greyworm to go forward with his attack-- he'll know when. I think torching the people was a pretty good sign.
That was to start the attack when she took down the walls from behind the Golden Company.

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Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday's belt in the fire?
"This is the only thing she brought from Essos" I believe.
  #268  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:58 PM
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Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday's belt in the fire?
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That the collar was her only possession, the only thing she brought across the Narrow Sea.
Right. It was her slave collar that Dany had freed her from.
  #269  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:59 PM
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Gal needs to learn to masturbate. A nice hitachi wand or ivory pleasure rod could have saved thousands of lives.
Only a "massager" made of dragonglass can satisfy the Queen of Dragons.
  #270  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:01 PM
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He said at the Trident.
Ah, I misremembered the line. However, it's the same place. The Ruby Ford is where the Kingsroad crosses the Trident, which based on the maps is further from King's Landing than The Wall is long, and The Wall is roughly 100 leagues long. I'm eyeballing it at around 1.3x longer, so 130 leagues which depending on exactly what a league is (3 nautical miles in our world, usually, but who knows in Westeros) is 400-450 miles.

For comparison, that's twice as far as Stamford Bridge to Hastings, and Harold took a lot longer than 2 days repositioning his army to face the invading Normans.
  #271  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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Early on, she wanted to be the king's wife, I think, more than she wanted to be queen. Of course, she has been thought a lot, and changed a lot.

Now, I am not so sure. She certainly seems comfortable being the queen of the North, who says she doesn't want the whole enchillada?
Sansa is not Queen in the North. She is standing as Lady of Winterfell in Bran's stead while he is busy being Three Eyed Raven. Technically, Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and Jon only held power when they thought that both Bran and Rickon were dead. Now Rickon is dead and Bran refuses to take his rightful place since he is all Raven-y. Jon remains King in the North in the eyes of the Northmen, that is why the North is particiapting in the war. They are following thier king, Jon, not Dani. Sansa even straight up told Dani that the North had no intention of bending the knee to her if she took the Iron Throne or not. Whoever wins, other than Jon, will have to still deal with the fact that the North has already seceded from the 7 Kingdoms and reasserted its independance from King's Landing.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:11 PM
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I believe that the messenger ravens are trained and maintained by maesters. We've seen neither maesters nor ravens at Dragonstone.

Not a major issue, since someone like Varys could probably find someone to smuggle them out. I'm going to bet that that scene meant that he did get some out, and in the final episode we'll see some of the kingdoms go over to Jon instead of Danaerys based on that information. But that might be superfluous since they would probably prefer him anyway regardless of ancestry.
Daenerys will likely be assassinated.
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  #273  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:15 PM
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Daenerys will likely be assassinated.
Tell me something I don't know.

But there will be some more dramatic tension built up before then with people flocking to Jon. Dany won't survive the final episode, but they're not going to kill her off in the first five minutes either.
  #274  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:21 PM
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Tell me something I don't know.

But there will be some more dramatic tension built up before then with people flocking to Jon. Dany won't survive the final episode, but they're not going to kill her off in the first five minutes either.
I actually think it will be fairly early, because while it might feel that her death should be conclusion what happens after is what's really important.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:28 PM
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A moment that I thought was unintentionally funny was when The Mountain put the kibosh on Qyburn and Cercei was all suddenly, 'You smell that? I think I left the stove on. 'Scuse me. . ." and scampered around The Hound.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:29 PM
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Sansa is not Queen in the North. She is standing as Lady of Winterfell in Bran's stead while he is busy being Three Eyed Raven. Technically, Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and Jon only held power when they thought that both Bran and Rickon were dead. Now Rickon is dead and Bran refuses to take his rightful place since he is all Raven-y. Jon remains King in the North in the eyes of the Northmen, that is why the North is particiapting in the war. They are following thier king, Jon, not Dani. Sansa even straight up told Dani that the North had no intention of bending the knee to her if she took the Iron Throne or not. Whoever wins, other than Jon, will have to still deal with the fact that the North has already seceded from the 7 Kingdoms and reasserted its independance from King's Landing.
Jon renounced being King in the North when he took the knee. I believe he is now Warden of the North.

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Daenerys will likely be assassinated.
Daenerys will climb up on Drogon to burn Jon, Tyrion and anyone else we care about when suddenly Drogon pulls off his face and itís Arya.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:30 PM
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Daenerys will likely be assassinated.
I don't think it will be that easy. I almost am certain Bran will warg Drogan to remove him from the equation....who knows maybe he runs her and him into a mountain....or has him fly as high as he can (Maybe Dany even knows whats happening and says "Bran?....do it." as she realizes all she's done)

My biggest worry is how Clarke will play mad Dany without it being tropish. It's not easy. She did great in the little we saw her in that mode last night.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:33 PM
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I think there's a possibility that Daeneris will die of her own hubris. For example, she could decide that Winterfell has to be destroyed because it's the seat of power in the North and the North won't bend the knee. So against everyone's pleas she gets on Drogon and heads north bent on destruction - only Bran and the old gods have a say, and she doesn't come out alive.

That way, none of the 'good' people have to murder someone who has been beloved on the show until now, and it follows the greek tragedy of hubris leading to nemesis.

But I still think Arya will kill her in some surprising way.
  #279  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:38 PM
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My biggest worry is how Clarke will play mad Dany without it being tropish. It's not easy. She did great in the little we saw her in that mode last night.
She does have really good crazy eyes. So wounded and wrathful and long-suffering at the same time.
  #280  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:38 PM
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But I still think Arya will kill her in some surprising way.
Arya's whole experience in King's Landing certainly sets it up that she will try.
  #281  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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Since they have pretty much described the broadcast events as the occurred.
Moderating

This is a thread about the show. Let's refrain from discussing leaks or information not from the show itself as it is broadcast.

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  #282  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:48 PM
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It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point?

The letters Varys was writing were, in my opinion, aimed at the power brokers back in Pentos - the same ones Varys has been allied with, and the ones who protected Daeneris as a child and helped marry her off to a powerful man, give her dragon eggs, etc. And what if those guys were affiliated with the Iron Bank? They all wanted a Targaryan on the throne because they thought it would restore peace and prosperity to Westeros - needed for them to get their money back.

We could have a scene where Daeneris begins to rule, and she's going to kill Jon Snow when suddenly forces from the Iron Bank arrive and inform her she is not the rightful ruler, and they kill her and install Jon Snow, who inherits a destroyed kingdom deeply in debt and the real power players in his new regime are owned by the bank.

For that matter, what if the faceless men trained Arya under contract to the Iron Bank? I think it's been established that the Iron Bank uses the Faceless men as muscle, so maybe planting one in Westeros - one who really hates the person who borrowed all the money - was a good pre-emptive move.

Maybe Arya will be ready to give up and go home, and Jaqen appears and says, 'a girl's tasks are not finished...'.
  #283  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:51 PM
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It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point?
The Iron Bank has backed loser after loser in this war, they've got no one to collect from and at this point I would be shocked if they had much of anything left to collect with.
  #284  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:52 PM
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It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point?

The letters Varys was writing were, in my opinion, aimed at the power brokers back in Pentos - the same ones Varys has been allied with, and the ones who protected Daeneris as a child and helped marry her off to a powerful man, give her dragon eggs, etc. And what if those guys were affiliated with the Iron Bank? They all wanted a Targaryan on the throne because they thought it would restore peace and prosperity to Westeros - needed for them to get their money back.

We could have a scene where Daeneris begins to rule, and she's going to kill Jon Snow when suddenly forces from the Iron Bank arrive and inform her she is not the rightful ruler, and they kill her and install Jon Snow, who inherits a destroyed kingdom deeply in debt and the real power players in his new regime are owned by the bank.

For that matter, what if the faceless men trained Arya under contract to the Iron Bank? I think it's been established that the Iron Bank uses the Faceless men as muscle, so maybe planting one in Westeros - one who really hates the person who borrowed all the money - was a good pre-emptive move.

Maybe Arya will be ready to give up and go home, and Jaqen appears and says, 'a girl's tasks are not finished...'.
Not just the Iron Bank, but its also possible we see Jon stating his intention to take his men north...Dany says no, then Yara and her fleet show up along with the Dornish and maybe some other forces and Dany has to either kill them all or leave.

THAT to me would be a happy ending so I dont see it happening.
  #285  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:52 PM
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It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank.
I actually proposed this a week or two ago - that the Iron Bank would put Westeros into receivership and institute a sensible for-profit corporate management.

But I was joking. I think this would be about as popular as having the basic conflict in The Phantom Menace be a trade war.
  #286  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:54 PM
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Moderating

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Q: That brings up a point I'll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar...how does DVD features and 'after the show' bits figure under the rules?
  #287  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:57 PM
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Q: That brings up a point I'll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar...how does DVD features and 'after the show' bits figure under the rules?
This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else.
  #288  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:59 PM
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One thing we haven't really talked much about is the Daeneris/Jon Snow love angle - which I have found totally unbelievable from the beginning. First, there is zero chemistry between the actors. None of their romantic scenes felt really right. Second, for all the complaining about Daeneris's 'sudden' turn to the dark side (which has actually been foreshadowed throughout the entire series), the 'sudden turn' that really was unbelievable was this sudden undying love between Jon Snow and Daeneris. She's not even the type of person Jon Snow would like. She's a high-born woman seeking power. The opposite of Snow. And Jon Snow isn't the kind of man she's been attracted to either - he's more the Ser Jorah Type, destined to be Friendzoned. She likes the dashing, swashbuckling, aggressive men like Khal Drogo and Dario Neharis.

In terms of the show, they've barely been together on screen. Their whole love interest arc didn't work for me at all. But it's not a particular fault of writing or acting - just a good idea for the story, but that really didn't work for me.

Anyone else feel the same way?
100% and always have since they slammed it into last year's final episode(s). Dude, no way. He and she have very little in common and while she was somewhat impressive, she definitely would not impress people as much as the show pretends she does.

I mean, everyone just thinks this girl is some kind of amazing person and true leader.

I think the show just proved that every single person was ridiculously wrong and she never deserved to be seen that way.

I hope Jon kills her and Gendry becomes king or something.
  #289  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:07 PM
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This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else.
I wouldn't take AK84's pronouncements as worth much.
And yes, y'all, it was pretty obvious Varys was trying to get the kitchen urchin to poison Dany.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:17 PM
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100% and always have since they slammed it into last year's final episode(s). Dude, no way. He and she have very little in common and while she was somewhat impressive, she definitely would not impress people as much as the show pretends she does.
Daenerys / Emilia Clarke is exceptionally beautiful. So in terms of engaging in a little bit of gland-to-gland combat, she'd impress a lot of guys.

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I mean, everyone just thinks this girl is some kind of amazing person and true leader.
But she indisputably is. Daenerys was a beggar who was sold off as a teenaged sex toy for Khal Drogo, and even her position as Khaleesi was taken from her. From that she conquered cities, brokered agreements, freed slaves, raised armies. I mean, say what you will, but she has a natural talent for leadership.

Where Tyrion and Jon were wrong is the assumption she was going to use her charisma for good. Both men were engaging in wishful thinking; Jon because he needed her to wage his own war, and also because he loved her, Tyrion because he was desperate to find some kind of redemption and purpose. They were able to project upon Daenerys what they wanted her to be and what she SAID she was, even as the signs mounted that she was another tyrant.

Who else was fooled? Jorah, I guess, but he was in love with her and, like Tyrion, was a lost soul. No one else was. Varys sure as hell wasn't, and Sansa wasn't, and so on. Grey Worm, Missandei and the rest were really quite fine with her burning and killing. Grey Worm and Missandei were freed slaves; they were on her side because she liberated them and killed their enemies. It wasn't any sort of moral position.
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  #291  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:18 PM
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I wouldn't take AK84's pronouncements as worth much.
And yes, y'all, it was pretty obvious Varys was trying to get the kitchen urchin to poison Dany.
I thought he was joking at first, but now he's defending them here and has posted them to the finale prediction thread.
  #292  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:28 PM
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Who else was fooled? Jorah, I guess, but he was in love with her and, like Tyrion, was a lost soul. No one else was.
Most of the audience was.
  #293  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:29 PM
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Q: That brings up a point I'll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar...how does DVD features and 'after the show' bits figure under the rules?
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else.
[Moderating]

Personally, I'm inclined to allow the "Inside the Episode" interviews and such on HBO's own website, since they are not posted until after the episode airs. In my experience they only discuss up to the present episode, and don't give spoilers about the next one. They can clarify motivations and what has actually happened in the episode. Information from "Next Week On" is allowed, but should be spoilered for those (like me) who avoid the previews.

I would avoid information from DVD features on earlier seasons unless it can be established that the information is from the show only, and isn't drawing on the books. The DVDs are not available to all viewers.

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  #294  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GreysonCarlisle View Post
I thought he was joking at first, but now he's defending them here and has posted them to the finale prediction thread.
I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke.
  #295  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:33 PM
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I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke.
I did. They may still be a joke--we won't know until next week--but this shit's beyond the pale.
  #296  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:34 PM
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...I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn't happen, though.
Maybe she forgot about them?

God, it's just so bad. If they wanted to get an early starting on screwing up the remainder of the star Wars franchise, I'd have been cool with the showrunners leaving before Season 8, and handing it off to someone else to finish.

Beautiful though, in the same way de Gaulle said it while watching the mushroom cloud rise after a nuclear test.
  #297  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke.
I did. I just assumed it would say "Hot Pie" or "Ser Pounce" or something like that, not casually be a real spoiler.

Genuine discussion of the spoiler follows in this spoiler box

SPOILER:
This was the same name as the surprising to me clear front runner in Sky Bet's "Who will rule Westeros" market from before the first episode aired
  #298  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:45 PM
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I wasn't at all surprised that Danaerys went Mad Queen given the way that this season and the last one have been taking her character - and actually all the way back to the first season. (As has been said, anyone who thinks this wasn't a potential end to her character arc hasn't been paying attention.) I was a little surprised at just how far they took it. I thought she might trigger a conflagration partially by accident in the course of trying to get at Cersei. But multiple strafing runs at the civilian population before she even tried to get at Cersei, and the graphic depiction of the incineration of a mother and child, were intended to put her absolutely beyond the pale.

I was also somewhat surprised in that they showed almost all of the supposed "good guy" forces engaging in atrocities - killing opposing soldiers after they had surrendered, the Dothraki hacking down fleeing civilians for no reason, the Northern soldier trying to rape. For me it did harken back to the earlier seasons when even the characters whose side we were supposed to be on committed despicable acts.
  #299  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:45 PM
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I'm out. See you Sunday night.
  #300  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreysonCarlisle View Post
I did. They may still be a joke--we won't know until next week--but this shit's beyond the pale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Shine View Post
I did. I just assumed it would say "Hot Pie" or "Ser Pounce" or something like that, not casually be a real spoiler.

Genuine discussion of the spoiler follows in this spoiler box

SPOILER:
This was the same name as the surprising to me clear front runner in Sky Bet's "Who will rule Westeros" market from before the first episode aired
Moderating

Let's stop going on and on about the supposed spoiler. Drop the subject now, even if you're joking.

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