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  #51  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:47 PM
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... and conservatives then to the problem as, "We keep introducing all these new education approaches which make things worse, when what we really need is to get back to teaching the basics." I suspect a significant portion of the Republicans polled who said "No" were reacting more from that bias, then from a specifically anti-Arab, or even a broader anti-multiculturalism, bias.
But the former isn't much better than the latter, it just lacks the racist element. What if this number system that they obviously have never heard of had really important educational value because it gave kids unique insights into mathematics?

Basically the latter explanation reflects the attitude, "I don't want my kids learnin' no Mooslem number system", while the former reflects the attitude "I don't want my kids learnin' no newfangled stuff that I don't understand". I'm convinced that many people vote the same way they answer polls, so one might laughingly dismiss this poll as silliness, but it's a lot harder to dismiss where the country is today politically.

Last edited by wolfpup; 05-15-2019 at 12:47 PM. Reason: typo
  #52  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:48 PM
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Particularly in the case of this poll, which is setup as a gotcha. They're not going to tell anyone what "Arabic numbers" are when the entire point of the poll is to show how many people don't know what "Arabic numbers" are.
I greatly doubt that. Basically, who cares. And why would anyone pay for a poll about it.

I'm sure they were aware that most people don't remember what Arabic numbers are. Which does not make them stupid, since being good at math without remembering that is not a hindrance to life. I doubt even Paulos would call someone who could do long division easily and not know this innumerate.

The proper answer would be "I don't know." But the pollsters knew that most people don't want to admit that they don't know something in public, and so would not take that as an answer. Or seeing Arabic meant that they thought they did know what it was.

I doubt many people are against teaching math in general, so without bias, and focusing on "numeral" you'd expect the don't knows to split evenly each way - or even be in favor of teaching something math related. But they clearly saw Arabic more than they saw Numeral. And Arabic is bad, which is where the bias is shown.

Redo the poll with "American Numerals" and see what happens. Probably 80% yes.
  #53  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:57 PM
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Also, as far as people answering with an opinion despite not understanding what Arabic numbers are, I can’t even really fault that, since I would argue that those people likely believed that Arabic numbers were exactly what they sound like they are, and didn’t feel the need for clarification, or “no opinion”. Again, all this is just laughing at people who don’t remember that our numbers are called Arabic. If the question was, “should the Arabic language be part of the curriculum”, answering no to that doesn’t equal prejudice, any more than saying Hungarian shouldn’t be part of the high school curriculum. And of course some people are answering no due purely to bigotry, but there’s no way to get any meaningful distinction of that from this poll
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:28 PM
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The proper answer would be "I don't know." But the pollsters knew that most people don't want to admit that they don't know something in public, and so would not take that as an answer. Or seeing Arabic meant that they thought they did know what it was.
I just got a robocall a day or two ago with a "one question poll". The question was "Do you favor [some state issue]? Press 1 for, yes press 2 for no." There was no "I don't know" or "No opinion" option.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:08 PM
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...asking a clarifying question would result in your answer being recorded as "Don't know" or "Don't care", as the pollster was required to word the question exactly as written without embellishment.
Well, then that's a fault of the poll (not this one, but in general). If someone polled me and asked if mystilology should be taught in high school, asking the pollster what mystilology is doesn't mean "don't know/don't care" reflects my feelings. Maybe I have strong opinions on the subject, but just know it by another term. They should start out, "are you familiar with mystilology?" before continuing. So in that sense, this "gotchya" poll is flawed as a poll.

Still, no one is forcing people to answer poll questions. Just say no.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:10 PM
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Seems very probable, but more to the point, every such person is spectacularly uninformed. I would worry about them having the right to vote. They might elect someone just like themselves.
So that's 71% of the people at a minimum, according to this poll, who are spectacularly uninformed. Guess we should consider revoking the right to vote from these people based on this one bit of trivia knowledge, since their voting is so worrying. Awesome!

Let's create some arbitrary tests full of facts that people "should" know in order to prove they're smart enough to vote. That'll keep the spectacularly uninformed from messing up representative Democracy. What's better, let's just fill the test with random and irrelevant cultural tidbits that the test designers have decided are the kind of random bits of info that the "right sort of people" are likely to know.

I mean really . . . folks are off the rails on this subject.

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But they clearly saw Arabic more than they saw Numeral. And Arabic is bad, which is where the bias is shown.
This is possibly true for some respondents, but again, the only way to state that as a "clear" or "likely" cause of the results is to bring your own suppositions, that most Americans (50-70%) are biased against Arabs, and those anti-Arab-inspired votes represent an overwhelming percentage of the responses.

You just can't know that.

You say: "people think Arabic is bad, so voted no."

Why not: "people feel that curriculums are already overwhelmed with unnecessary requirements, so voted against adding a subject that they had never heard of until they took this poll."

Or: "people have been lead to believe in recent decades that a focus on STEM subject is the most vital part of public education, and so adding an arbitrary foreign language/culture component to already struggling schools seems like a bad idea."



Did more people answer "no" to this question than did 10, 20, 30, or 40 years ago?

What are the differences between the responses to this question and similarly phrased questions about other seemingly specialized subjects of questionable recognizability?

If you don't have comparable data, you can't really draw any defensible conclusions from this poll question.

Or, let me ask, if America was less biased against Arabs, but still had the same relative ignorance about what Arab numerals are, how do you think that would affect this question? What would the numbers look like, and on what data do you base those numbers?
  #57  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:16 PM
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But the former isn't much better than the latter, it just lacks the racist element.
I'd say just lacking the racist element makes it much better.

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I greatly doubt that. Basically, who cares. And why would anyone pay for a poll about it.
I'm not sure what it is about that part of my post that you "greatly doubt."
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:22 PM
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So that's 71% of the people at a minimum, according to this poll, who are spectacularly uninformed.
I'm not sure where you're getting that number. According to the breakdown the "no" answer came from 72% of Republicans, and just 34% of Democrats. Which seems about right.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:30 PM
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Drilling a bit deeper into that poll:

Question: Should schools in America teach Arabic Numerals as part of the curriculum?

Politically, do you consider yourself more of a:

Republican:
17% Yes, 72% No, 11% No Opinion

Democrat:
40% Yes, 34% No, 26%

Independent:
31% Yes, 57% No, 12% No Opinion
I'm disappointed that so many Democrats and Independents are unaware of basic terminology. Though I suppose the poll does track with the notion that those who are better educated lean liberal.

Also it occurs to me that "no opinion" might include responses on the order of "take your stupid trick question and shove it up your butt", which gives us margin to cast all three groups in a better light (and also would suggest that more Democrats 'got it').
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:12 PM
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I'm not sure where you're getting that number. According to the breakdown the "no" answer came from 72% of Republicans, and just 34% of Democrats. Which seems about right.
The total number of respondents who voted no or no opinion. All of whom must not understand what Arabic numerals are, and therefore, in your own opinion are dangerous at the polls.

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  #61  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:40 PM
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The total number of respondents who voted no or no opinion. All of whom must not understand what Arabic numerals are, and therefore, in your own opinion are dangerous at the polls.
OK, but you're making assumptions about what "no opinion" means; some might be objecting to a perceived trick question, others might be confused as to what new teaching is being implied even if they know what Arabic numerals are. Who knows. But as I clarified later, the interesting and most pertinent thing is the "no" answers. The "no" answers in my view actually have political implications, because they're essentially saying, "I don't know what this is, but I just don't like the sound of it, so I'm agin' it".

This is consistent with the fact that Republicans overwhelmingly favored that choice compared to either of the other groups. How much of it is bigotry and how much is rejection of a perceived new unknown I don't know, but they (and quite a few independents) are happy to make a decision based on ignorance and zero evidence. This does have voting implications. I think it helps explain why the Oval Office is currently occupied by an orange marmoset.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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OK, but you're making assumptions about what "no opinion" means; some might be objecting to a perceived trick question, others might be confused as to what new teaching is being implied even if they know what Arabic numerals are.
There's good reasons for not taking any of the responses to this poll at face value, but I don't think its fair to take one set of numbers at face value, and start throwing out suppositions for what the responders "really" meant for the other sets.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:20 PM
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There's good reasons for not taking any of the responses to this poll at face value, but I don't think its fair to take one set of numbers at face value, and start throwing out suppositions for what the responders "really" meant for the other sets.
I suppose I'm swayed by having seen the results of so many ballot initiatives where morons vote against their own interests because of well-financed propaganda campaigns, and then get all upset when their public school systems or highway systems go to shit. Or, of course, the ascension of the aforementioned orange marmoset. But the epidemic of ignorant voters who don't understand the issues is particularly apparent in direct voting on policies, as in ballot initiatives, who then stare in slack-jawed surprise at the unintended consequences.

You're right that we don't know the reasons behind selecting "no opinion" on the poll, and we don't know the reasons for selecting "no", either. But given that it was a very stupid question to which even an elementary school student should have known that the answer was "yes", or just "this is stupid", the fact that so many seemed to confidently answer "no" -- a group heavily dominated by Republicans -- seems to me to suggest a pattern of uninformed decision-making among voters. Recall that a great many Republicans were highly opposed to Obamacare when it was being formulated, but were quite in favor of the Affordable Care Act when it was described to them. I believe one of the major differences was that Obamacare was the one with the Death Panelsô.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:26 PM
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I donít remember I ever being taught in school that our numbers are specifically called Arabic numbers, certainly not in a way that stressed that terminology in the way ďRoman numeralsĒ were
This. I learned by reading history books on my own time.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:52 PM
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I've known about the Arabic number system referring to our common positional base-10 system since I was a small child, so I suppose I must have learned it in school, but I don't know for sure. It's possible that the terminology may be more obscure than I thought, but there is absolutely nothing that can justify a response of "no" from someone who doesn't even know what it means!

Nor can I shake the idea that so many "no" responses, especially from Republicans, is disturbing. Suppose for a moment that this wasn't just a poll, but a ballot initiative. And suppose that the question wasn't this stupid one, but about some hypothetical "Arabic math" that educators had found to be a very effective teaching aid for helping students understand basic concepts in, say, number theory and geometry. How would you feel as a parent in a Republican district where Republican loons had voted "no" because ... well, whatever their irrational motivations were, despite knowing nothing about what it meant. Thus depriving your child of a better education, because it had the word "Arab" in it, or maybe just because the voters didn't understand what it was, but voted it down anyway. This is what I think the "no" polling is symptomatic of.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:43 PM
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I just got a robocall a day or two ago with a "one question poll". The question was "Do you favor [some state issue]? Press 1 for, yes press 2 for no." There was no "I don't know" or "No opinion" option.
Honest pollsters, I mean. Was your question loaded? I used to be on the Republican mailing list, and I'd get polls all the time like "Do you support Obama selling our country out to the Godless atheists: Yes or No."
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:51 PM
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So that's 71% of the people at a minimum, according to this poll, who are spectacularly uninformed. Guess we should consider revoking the right to vote from these people based on this one bit of trivia knowledge, since their voting is so worrying. Awesome!
I never said that everyone who voted no was biased. You'd need a baseline where the question did not involve a loaded group to see who would vote no on anything.
However, why do you think the poll was done? I really don't think that the teaching of standard numerals is a hot button issue. Bias is. And we know that you need to be a bit subtle to detect bias. Even people who hate Arabs aren't going to tell a pollster that, in general.
This is the same kind of reason they do those tests measuring reaction time to good and bad things when they are shown in conjunction with black people and white people. It is a measure of implicit bias.
And a pretty clever one, I think. I'd have to see the paper to see if they did do a baseline - that wouldn't make it into a newspaper story, probably.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:52 PM
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I'm not sure what it is about that part of my post that you "greatly doubt."
That the reason for the poll was a gotcha. See my previous post for what I think the real reason was.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:02 PM
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That the reason for the poll was a gotcha. See my previous post for what I think the real reason was.
Your post describing what you think was the real reason for the question does not appear to differ substantially from mine.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:33 AM
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I wonder what their opinion is on teaching the Latin alphabet.
  #71  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:24 AM
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Just curious, how many of you are aware that in some Arabic countries, they do use a different set of Arabic numerals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabic_numerals

A while back, I saw an Egyptian market trader using Eastern Arabic numerals on a scratchpad, so I can confirm (well, one data point) that they're actually in use.
And just to confuse matters further -- in a generally well-informed source, which I respect: I've seen the Eastern Arabic numerals, as above, referred to as "Semitic numerals" -- as distinct from [Western] Arabic numerals, our standard system. There was in the reference, an element of "go figure": but after all, both Jews and Arabs are Semitic peoples.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:58 AM
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OK, but you're making assumptions about what "no opinion" means; some might be objecting to a perceived trick question, others might be confused as to what new teaching is being implied even if they know what Arabic numerals are. Who knows.
Well, fine. Which people are the "spectacularly uninformed" people whom who you worry "having the right to vote"? How did they vote?



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But as I clarified later, the interesting and most pertinent thing is the "no" answers. The "no" answers in my view actually have political implications, because they're essentially saying, "I don't know what this is, but I just don't like the sound of it, so I'm agin' it".
Well, I'm confused. Just above you literally said we have no way of knowing why the "no opinion" people voted "no opinion". But you absolutely know why the "no" people voted "no"? You suggest that these two possibilities I posed:

Quote:
Why not: "people feel that curriculums are already overwhelmed with unnecessary requirements, so voted against adding a subject that they had never heard of until they took this poll."

Or: "people have been lead to believe in recent decades that a focus on STEM subject is the most vital part of public education, and so adding an arbitrary foreign language/culture component to already struggling schools seems like a bad idea."
. . . are not reasons why anyone would vote "no"?
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:07 AM
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I don't think the Civic'Science' pollsters asked a loaded question. I mean it's just plain stupid. I think the pollsters where so stupid to not know what the heck they where talking about.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:19 AM
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However, why do you think the poll was done? I really don't think that the teaching of standard numerals is a hot button issue. Bias is. And we know that you need to be a bit subtle to detect bias. Even people who hate Arabs aren't going to tell a pollster that, in general.
This is the same kind of reason they do those tests measuring reaction time to good and bad things when they are shown in conjunction with black people and white people. It is a measure of implicit bias.
And a pretty clever one, I think. I'd have to see the paper to see if they did do a baseline - that wouldn't make it into a newspaper story, probably.
I think the poll was taken to "prove" that people are biased, but I think it fails/was poorly designed, because it assumes without proof that the word "Arabic" in a phrase is the cause of a "no" vote.

I think that there's some slightly more valid inferences to be made from the political breakdown, but still a lot of room for supposition (maybe more Dems vote "Yes" because even though they don't know what it is they're anxious about seeming bigoted) and debate.

But the OP and the linked article began by stating "Majority Opposed to teaching Arabic Numerals". I feel like this shift to "well, it's about how Republicans suck" is an attempt to dodge or redirect attention from the failure of the premise of this thread. Even 60% of Democrats did not vote "Yes".

Bottom line, there are numerous reasonable reasons why a person might vote "No" that don't involve bias. I'm sure bias plays some part in the difference between Dem and Rep responses, but how much we're not really able to say. Using the poll as "proof" of some underlying bias requires too many assumptions about the reasoning behind the responses and the exact nature of the supposed bias that it's no proof at all.

(And, I'll just add, in case anyone is curious; I'm generally as left as left can get, and don't usually find myself in debate with the posters I'm engaging in this thread. I just get frustrated when essentially meaningless data gets shoehorned in as a foundation for justifying one's preexisting assumptions about other people's motivation. I don't argue about it on Facebook, but I will do so here ).
  #75  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:21 AM
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If a similar poll shows 90% are in favor of banning the dangerous substance dihydrogen monoxide, it's the same thing.
No itís not. The vast majority of us were taught that the numbers we use are Arabic. Unless as a joke, Iím guessing a almost no one was taught that dihydrogen monoxide is another name for water.

The poll illustrates how a lack of literacy can lead to misplaced fears.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:40 AM
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No itís not. The vast majority of us were taught that the numbers we use are Arabic. Unless as a joke, Iím guessing a almost no one was taught that dihydrogen monoxide is another name for water.

The poll illustrates how a lack of literacy can lead to misplaced fears.
Iím actually not entirely sure we ever were taught the number system we use is Arabic. Itís certainly something I picked up along the way, but I couldnít state with any degree of confidence that we were explicitly taught this in school. And if we were taught, it was a one-off and rarely referred to again, as I simply cannot remember ever using the phrase in school.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:04 AM
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No itís not. The vast majority of us were taught that the numbers we use are Arabic.
Cite?

I just don't know that that's true, and I don't know that an informal collection of "well, I know I was" data points from self-styled smarty pants members of a smarty pants message board is going to give you an accurate understanding of what the "vast majority of us" were or were not taught.

And how many things that a teacher or book might or might not have mentioned one time in one class somewhere (which I guess qualifies as a thing "having been taught") that is never used or revisited again do we expect "the vast majority" of people to retain and be able to recall decades later?

You know something I learned in 4th grade that for some reason I remember? What the names are for the parts of the shadow that the Earth casts. "The vast majority" (all) of the kids who went through my school were taught this. So, I can only assume that all kids everywhere were taught this, because it's, like, so fundamental, and plus my experience must be representative of all experiences.

Wanna take a bet on how many random "people on the street" would be able to answer the question "what's an umbra" correctly? I bet the number is vanishingly small.

Just as this poll obviously indicates that, despite your and others' insistence that people "should" know what Arabic numerals are because we were "all taught it", that most people don't know they are, and there's no evidence that we were "all taught it" at any point.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:31 AM
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Your post describing what you think was the real reason for the question does not appear to differ substantially from mine.
So, you think the poll was to examine implicit bias? I didn't get that at all from your post, my apologies.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:38 AM
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I don't think the Civic'Science' pollsters asked a loaded question. I mean it's just plain stupid. I think the pollsters where so stupid to not know what the heck they where talking about.
In my experience when laypeople say that what something an expert does is stupid, it is because the laypeople don't understand it.

See Senator Proxmire for example.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:40 AM
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No itís not. The vast majority of us were taught that the numbers we use are Arabic. Unless as a joke, Iím guessing a almost no one was taught that dihydrogen monoxide is another name for water.

The poll illustrates how a lack of literacy can lead to misplaced fears.
I got taught that they were called Arabic numerals, but that was decades ago. I know it, but then I read a book about the history of zero.
I suspect that most people were taught it but forgot it, and I bet the pollsters were expecting that most people did not remember what Arabic numerals were.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:14 PM
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That would be funny if it was worded right. Numbers written in Arabic would be confusing.

If you wanted to point out that people don't know the history of math that's fine but I seriously doubt they were any wiser in non-Trump years.

But you did manage to blame Trump so.... bless your heart?
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:56 PM
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It to laugh, but it exposes ignorance only, not prejudice per se. But I would like to see the result of a similar poll asking about Hindi numerals.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:59 PM
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FWIW:

I would also vote against any modern American school curriculum including that Egyptian (Phoenician) Ox-House pseudo-graphical system# of writing.

Our kids have better things* to do!












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#Then again, I can read Japanese Kana -- and even some Kanji
*Like stringing colored beads....
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:34 PM
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I got taught that they were called Arabic numerals, but that was decades ago. I know it, but then I read a book about the history of zero.
I suspect that most people were taught it but forgot it, and I bet the pollsters were expecting that most people did not remember what Arabic numerals were.
My point was to refute JAQís assertion that knowing that we use Arabic numbers is the same level of knowledge as knowing that dihydrogen monoxide is water. Itís not.


In other news, Arabic numerals vs Roman numerals was a Jeopardy answer today!
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:55 PM
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Just curious, how many of you are aware that in some Arabic countries, they do use a different set of Arabic numerals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabic_numerals

A while back, I saw an Egyptian market trader using Eastern Arabic numerals on a scratchpad, so I can confirm (well, one data point) that they're actually in use.
Until I read this it didn't really occur to me the irony of an Arabic country using what appear to be non-Arabic numbers.
Iranian paper money:
http://www.iranchamber.com/currency/...otes_coins.php
Third image down.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:27 PM
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I knew our number system is credited to the ancient arab civilization.

I haven't heard the term Arabic numerals before.

9 words in math from arab culture
https://stepfeed.com/9-words-that-sh...ly-arabic-2979

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-17-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:08 PM
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Until I read this it didn't really occur to me the irony of an Arabic country using what appear to be non-Arabic numbers.
Iranian paper money:
http://www.iranchamber.com/currency/...otes_coins.php
Third image down.
Uh... Iran is not an Arabic country. It's Persian. My Persian friend would kick your butt for that.

(He's not Muslim either; he's Zoroastrian...)
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:33 AM
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When you have a poorly designed question, you're going to get really bad data.

You could have a bunch of people who actual know Eastern Arabic numerals like this: ١.٢.٣.٤.٥.٦.٧.٨.٩ Zero is represented by a dot. So if that's the case then what does your data show?

I wonder what the data would have shown if they asked about the Hindu-Arabic numerals, or Western Arabic numbers?

Really the data doesn't show anything, without a bunch of follow up questions asking the same thing in different ways it's a meaningless result.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:47 PM
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How can someone be unaware that the term for the numerals used in English today is Arabic numerals? I seriously doubt that bit of info was "some obscure tidbit in a lesson long ago". I heard it plenty of times from grade school all the way until I graduated university and even after.
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Old 05-19-2019, 11:15 PM
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It could be the neurological effects of dihydrogen monoxide exposure.
Wait, what is dihydrogen monoxide?

Oh, duh.

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Old 05-19-2019, 11:41 PM
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How can someone be unaware that the term for the numerals used in English today is Arabic numerals? I seriously doubt that bit of info was "some obscure tidbit in a lesson long ago". I heard it plenty of times from grade school all the way until I graduated university and even after.
I'm sure there are plenty of Americans that are unaware of such. I knew they were Arabic numerals but I can't recall specifically when I learned that in school, it was mentioned once or twice maybe. I'm a college graduate but I'm sure a lot of college graduates even may not recall that if they were say on a game show or something.

I mean what's the alternative that most people know they are Arabic numerals but want to switch to some other number system because it's Arabic in origin, that seems pretty far fetched in my opinion.

The American school system is not all that great anyway. Have you ever seen some of those polls or tonight show type interviews where they ask Americans geography or basic science questions and they are completely unbelievably ignorant?

As an American I'll admit too that I'm not that well-versed in geography.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:00 AM
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How can someone be unaware that the term for the numerals used in English today is Arabic numerals? I seriously doubt that bit of info was "some obscure tidbit in a lesson long ago". I heard it plenty of times from grade school all the way until I graduated university and even after.
Oddly, I haven't. I know the term. I can't think of a single time I have heard it in conversation. There's little reason to refer to it, since it's the normal number system we use. It makes sense if you're using it to contrast to another number system but what other number system would we have to contrast it against typically? I mean, Roman numerals, I guess, but then most people just call them "numbers" vs "Roman numerals" not "Arabic numerals" vs "Roman numerals."

I'm not trying to be anti-intellectual here. I just don't see why the average person would know or remember this. This is not a point of fact, at least in my experience, that is drilled into our brains from grammar school onward.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:17 AM
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How can someone be unaware that the term for the numerals used in English today is Arabic numerals? I seriously doubt that bit of info was "some obscure tidbit in a lesson long ago". I heard it plenty of times from grade school all the way until I graduated university and even after.
Graduated from university, eh? You elitist, you.

Americans don't know a lot of things more important and less obscure than the term Arabic numbers.
I think you are spoiled from hanging around here. Note that people have already nitpicked their true origin.
In a country with such a high percentage of people who are creationists, Arabic numbers are the least of our problems.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:38 PM
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How can someone be unaware that the term for the numerals used in English today is Arabic numerals? I seriously doubt that bit of info was "some obscure tidbit in a lesson long ago". I heard it plenty of times from grade school all the way until I graduated university and even after.
I learned Arabic vs. Roman numerals in primary school (right around when we learned to read clocks), and then again in secondary school during world history.

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Old 05-20-2019, 12:46 PM
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I learned Arabic vs. Roman numerals in primary school (right around when we learned to read clocks)
You were explicitly taught at that age that they were Arabic numerals? That would be like first or second grade, right? We just called them "numbers." I mean, I guess I'm somewhat surprised that people were taught the name of the number system that early on. Perhaps that is the norm, but I really don't think I learned it in primary school; secondary school it's possible that it was mentioned in world history class or something of that nature. But, once again, something mentioned a couple of times and forgotten about.
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