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Old 11-17-2019, 09:57 AM
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Who's the most Evil Disney villain?


In your considered opinion, that is.

At the bottom of the list I'd put Cinderella's stepmother (who's really only cruel to one person) and Sher Khan from The Jungle Book (who's desire for Mowgli's death is arguably self-defense). Captain Hook is too comical.

Cruella de Vil is much more Evil, killing puppy dogs to make a coat.

Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame deserves special mention.

Hades from Hercules is a consideration (or maybe he's just out for revenge).

and then there's Cernobog from Fantasia who spends his free time playing and tormenting the souls of the damned.

Who do YOU think?
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:14 AM
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2nd runner up: the Beagle Boys

1st runner up: Black Pete

Top: Gladstone Gander. He may not technically be Evil, but he is certainly a jerk.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:29 AM
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2nd runner up: the Beagle Boys

1st runner up: Black Pete

Top: Gladstone Gander. He may not technically be Evil, but he is certainly a jerk.
But what about... The Phantom Blot???
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:34 AM
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But what about... The Phantom Blot???
Small potatoes compared to Shadow Blot.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:24 AM
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I think Scar has to be up there - kill your brother, blame your nephew, establish a totalitarian fascist state.

BTW, I think that the suggestions should stick to original Disney properties and not acquired properties like Star Wars. Just a suggestion to the OP. Otherwise we will be up to our elbows in Sith.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:33 AM
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I think Scar has to be up there - kill your brother, blame your nephew, establish a totalitarian fascist state.

BTW, I think that the suggestions should stick to original Disney properties and not acquired properties like Star Wars. Just a suggestion to the OP. Otherwise we will be up to our elbows in Sith.
I agree, let's stick to original Disney and Pixar productions only.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:48 AM
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Scar is a good one to say because he's one of the few I can think of that straight up murdered someone...a family member no less.

Cruella gets props because while her crimes aren't the biggest...they're the most sadistic.

I think Ursula should get some thoughts too as she made purposely crooked deals to torture and keep souls. Killing someone is bad, but turning them into a brown goop fish thingy and holding them like that for (presumably) all eternity is just cruel.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:55 AM
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Walt.

Racist, misogynist, credit-stealing, McCarthy-ite, virulently anti-union, etc.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:23 AM
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Walt.

Racist, misogynist, credit-stealing, McCarthy-ite, virulently anti-union, etc.
Duly noted.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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Walt.

Racist, misogynist, credit-stealing, McCarthy-ite, virulently anti-union, etc.
Walt was not a racist, not a misogynist, nor credit stealing. He did hate Commies, but wasnt a McCarthy-ite. He hated only that one Union boss who was a admitted Commie and called a strike even tho Walts employees were better paid than others in the field.
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:51 AM
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Walt.

Racist, misogynist, credit-stealing, McCarthy-ite, virulently anti-union, etc.
Stole most of his content and then went to implement draconian copyright protection and extension.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:46 AM
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BTW, I think that the suggestions should stick to original Disney properties and not acquired properties like Star Wars. Just a suggestion to the OP. Otherwise we will be up to our elbows in Sith.
I was gonna go with Thanos :P I guess I'll go with the evil queen from snow white then. Killing a girl and having her heart brought to you in a box just because she's prettier? that's evil right there.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:31 AM
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Cruella de vil popped into my head as soon as I read the thread title. Puppies! Even her name is basically "Cruel devil"
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:16 PM
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Cruella de vil popped into my head as soon as I read the thread title. Puppies! Even her name is basically "Cruel devil"
Nasty but not evil.

Maleficent and Evil Queen are pretty up there, along with Jafar.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:53 AM
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Michael Eisner

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Old 11-17-2019, 10:59 AM
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Mother Gothel from Tangled. All the others are EEEEEE-vil and don't make any attempt to hide it. She spends 18 years pretending to love Rapunzel and to do what's best for her. And she has hides it from her with a nasty passive-aggressive personality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Gothel
[looking in the mirror with Rapunzel]
Mother Gothel: Rapunzel, look in that mirror. Do you know what I see? I see a strong, confident, beautiful young lady.
[Rapunzel smiles]
Mother Gothel: Oh look, you're here too!
And, of course, the repeated "I'm just teasing," when she says something particularly hurtful.

Gothel is particularly evil because her villainy is real. You don't get many people making dalmatian coats, or stealing someone's voice, or murdering his brother to become king (not any more, at least). But there are real Mother Gothels out there and that makes her worse.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:24 PM
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Gothel is particularly evil because her villainy is real.
Completely agree. This is exactly what I was going to say. We all know people who do this, and it makes it so disconcerting and uncomfortable to watch.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:29 PM
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:20 PM
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Mother Gothel from Tangled. All the others are EEEEEE-vil and don't make any attempt to hide it. She spends 18 years pretending to love Rapunzel and to do what's best for her. And she has hides it from her with a nasty passive-aggressive personality.

And, of course, the repeated "I'm just teasing," when she says something particularly hurtful.

Gothel is particularly evil because her villainy is real. You don't get many people making dalmatian coats, or stealing someone's voice, or murdering his brother to become king (not any more, at least). But there are real Mother Gothels out there and that makes her worse.
Agreed. Gothel's song, "Mother Knows Best", is a horrifyingly real example of how parents can manipulate and destroy the self-esteem of young girls by undercutting their agency.

Quote:
Mother knows best
Take it from your mumsy
On your own, you won't survive
Sloppy, under-dressed
Immature, clumsy - please!
They'll eat you up alive
Gullible, naive
Positively grubby
Ditzy and a bit, well, hmm...vague
Plus, I believe
Gettin' kinda chubby
I'm just saying cause I wuv you
I KNOW mothers like that. My oldest has a bestie who essentially lived with us for her last two years after I met her mother. A horrifying woman who would do the 'I have a pacemaker, do what I say or I might die.' and 'You can't go away to college! Who's going to take care of the house?' Good God awmighty.

Yes, there are more over-the-top villains in the Disney catalog but Mother Gothel is truly terrible because of the ordinary mundanity of her villainy. Ursula and Maleficient are bad but unrealistic. Gothel is terrifying because she's on every street in America.

Ditto Frollo from Hunchback. Others might have more power but we've all known men who punish women for daring to 'tempt' them by being themselves.

Last edited by Jonathan Chance; 11-17-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:04 PM
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I KNOW mothers like that.
I know a song about that
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:24 AM
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Another one flying under the radar is the Coachman from Pinocchio who buys boys and takes them to Pleasure Island, where they turn themselves horrifically into donkeys, which the Coachman then sells (for a higher price one assumes).
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:20 PM
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Another one flying under the radar is the Coachman from Pinocchio who buys boys and takes them to Pleasure Island, where they turn themselves horrifically into donkeys, which the Coachman then sells (for a higher price one assumes).
Yep, that one is pretty evil. I can't figure out the economics of that one, honestly tho, donkeys are not that expensive.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:07 PM
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Sher Khan from The Jungle Book (who's desire for Mowgli's death is arguably self-defense).
I don't think he's the worst of the Disney lot but, to correct the record, his desire for Mowgli's death stemmed directly from breaking the Law of the Jungle by murdering Mowgli's parents and then demanded that the Pack hand the infant Mowgli over so he could eat him. Also, Sher Khan's actions threatened to bring the wrath of the village upon the jungle (thus the prohibition on killing men) and threatened all the inhabitants simply because Sher Khan was feeling too lazy to hunt proper prey.

Even as Mowgli got older, it wasn't self-defense in the "fight off muggers on the street" sense but "tie up loose ends from a crime" sense plus Sher Khan still feeling entitled to Mowgli as a prize from his hunt. There's not much grey area in Sher Khan's deeds.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:30 PM
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Is Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Disney-sufficient to count? If so, I nominate Judge Doom, who sadistically killed an innocent cartoon shoe. And Eddie Valiant's brother or whatever.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:44 PM
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Is Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Disney-sufficient to count? If so, I nominate Judge Doom, who sadistically killed an innocent cartoon shoe. And Eddie Valiant's brother or whatever.
Yes, that's Disney enough.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:18 PM
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Syndrome, from The Incredibles, is basically a serial killer.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:02 PM
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Syndrome possible has the largest confirmed deaths, maybe. Percival C. McLeach would be the closest, possibly even surpassing Syndrome, by dint of a huge plot hole that leaves his hoard of prisoners dead by desertion.
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:23 PM
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In your considered opinion, that is.

At the bottom of the list I'd put Cinderella's stepmother (who's really only cruel to one person) and Sher Khan from The Jungle Book (who's desire for Mowgli's death is arguably self-defense). Captain Hook is too comical.

Cruella de Vil is much more Evil, killing puppy dogs to make a coat.

Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame deserves special mention.

Hades from Hercules is a consideration (or maybe he's just out for revenge).

and then there's Cernobog from Fantasia who spends his free time playing and tormenting the souls of the damned.

Who do YOU think?
SHERE Khan.

That is all. Carry on.
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Old 11-17-2019, 05:13 PM
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Miller beat me to Syndrome. He's straight-up evil. I'll go with him and Cruella.
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:06 PM
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Scar had reason to be the way he was. His mother named him Garbage because she liked Mufasa so much better. Syndrome was cast aside as a child. Judge Doom has a deep self-hatred. But Cruella? She was evil just for evil's sake. Because she liked causing pain and suffering. She gets my vote.
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:46 PM
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Malificent is pretty much defined as being the manifestation of evil, and her reaction to not being invited to a party is to condemn an infant child to death (mitigated to sleep by one of the other faeries)
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:47 PM
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Maoi, for convincing everybody he's a hero even though he CAUSED the story and the exile of Moana's people from their home by stealing the heart of the sea in the first place.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:06 PM
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Cruela wanted to kill some puppies to make a coat. Who cares? Small animals get made into fashion products all the time by people. Call it evil if you want, but itís hardly deviant behavior (which I believe is part of what distinguishes certain behaviors not just as evil or wrong in and of themselves, but indicative of what makes a person evil).

So Iíd have to go with Scar, Judge Doom, Ursula, or maybe Bambi's mom (for bringing a child into this world, with so much evil in it).
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:21 PM
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Cruela wanted to kill some puppies to make a coat. Who cares? Small animals get made into fashion products all the time by people. Call it evil if you want, but itís hardly deviant behavior (which I believe is part of what distinguishes certain behaviors not just as evil or wrong in and of themselves, but indicative of what makes a person evil).

So Iíd have to go with Scar, Judge Doom, Ursula, or maybe Bambi's mom (for bringing a child into this world, with so much evil in it).
Cruella did steal the 15 puppies from the Dearlys (or Radcliffes in the animated film), but that was the only actual crime she committed.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:54 AM
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If we're going by "evil is more evil when it is the same as real world evil" then Frollo, since murderous Incel weirdos are a real-world danger too.

Looking at all Disney properties, Bill Cipher is up there as outright evil.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:29 AM
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Sid, the toy breaker in Toy Story. Bad seed.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:40 AM
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The Horned King was an evil necromancer, that's got to count for something beyond General Audiences.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:10 PM
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Technically speaking, the bad guys from The Crow.

(But another vote for the Horned King. The man had style.)
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:16 PM
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Technically speaking, the bad guys from The Crow.

(But another vote for the Horned King. The man had style.)
If we're counting Miramax, then I vote Harvey Weinstein as the real villain.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:48 PM
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If we're counting Miramax ...
if we're counting Miramax - Pinhead for the win.

(quote shortened by me - I assume we're talking fictional villains here, the above sidetrack about Walt notwithstanding)
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:58 AM
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Maximillian the robot in the black hole ... could give the original t-800 a run for its money..... tuens out he was the real villain and not the doc although the wasn't evil.. just mentally ill

Last edited by nightshadea; 11-18-2019 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:05 AM
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ok it was supposed to say turns out he was the real villain and not the doc although the doc wasn't evil.. just mentally ill
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:07 AM
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Ethrilist:

Quote:
Maoi, for convincing everybody he's a hero even though he CAUSED the story and the exile of Moana's people from their home by stealing the heart of the sea in the first place.
Maui had no idea that his theft of the Heart had that effect. His motivations were good; his actions (and specifically that one, he did plenty of actions that totally benefited mankind) had unintended consequences.

Surprised that I have yet to see any votes for Jafar, from Aladdin. He strikes me as purely power-hungry and selfishly evil, without any mitigating circumstances or beneficent impulses. He was the second-most powerful person in the kingdom, but wasn't satisfied with that. I don't see any reason for him to be harboring resentment, like Scar (who was my first instinct, until I thought about it for a while) or Yzma (whose story is very similar, but with the twist that she was fired from her job).
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:07 AM
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Surprised that I have yet to see any votes for Jafar, from Aladdin. He strikes me as purely power-hungry and selfishly evil, without any mitigating circumstances or beneficent impulses.
I guess it's because he's too much the walking mustache-twirling stereotype. That tends to be a bit comical - See: Iznogoud.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:37 PM
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I guess it's because he's too much the walking mustache-twirling stereotype. That tends to be a bit comical - See: Iznogoud.
Meant to mention this earlier, but...

Iznogoud! I loved those books as a kid. Always wondered if they held up at all, or if they'd come across as cringingly racist nowadays.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:38 AM
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...Yzma (whose story is very similar, but with the twist that she was fired from her job).
Now, let's be honest. Before his epiphany, Kuzco was both a terrible ruler and person.

Yzma taking a shot at the big chair was, frankly, not a villain's action. An argument could be made that she was attempting a coup that might have resulted in the betterment of all in the kingdom. She didn't seem to rule for evil, she just wanted competence - herself over bad Kuzco - in the decision-making position.
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:44 AM
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Yzma taking a shot at the big chair was, frankly, not a villain's action. An argument could be made that she was attempting a coup that might have resulted in the betterment of all in the kingdom. She didn't seem to rule for evil, she just wanted competence - herself over bad Kuzco - in the decision-making position.
You could say the same about Jafar, couldn't you? IIRC, Jasmin's dad was fairly useless.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:39 PM
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You could say the same about Jafar, couldn't you? IIRC, Jasmin's dad was fairly useless.
Tough to say, really. We only see him after Jafar is clearly influencing him with the Snake Staff of Doom. The two times we see him actively having agency the first time he's wondering about Jasmine and Jafar hexes him and at the end he shakes it off and declares that she can marry the kid with the pants.

So the jury has to be out on the Sultan. Sure, he ain't exactly Sweden in terms of enlightenment, but we don't know he's actively incompetent or dangerous.

Kuzco, on the other hand, is actively neglectful and disdainful of his subjects to the point of making them homeless and even having one toss off a building simply for interrupting his dance. Prior to his enlightenment, Kuzco is, simply, a self-absorbed dick.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:51 AM
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Surprised that I have yet to see any votes for Jafar, from Aladdin. He strikes me as purely power-hungry and selfishly evil, without any mitigating circumstances or beneficent impulses. He was the second-most powerful person in the kingdom, but wasn't satisfied with that. I don't see any reason for him to be harboring resentment, like Scar (who was my first instinct, until I thought about it for a while) or Yzma (whose story is very similar, but with the twist that she was fired from her job).
Part of what undercuts Jafar's villainy is that a lot of his evil actions are at least partially mirrored by other characters in the film. His big plan is to use the lamp to force Jasmine to marry him, thereby gaining control of the kingdom - which is basically Aladdin's plot after he gets out of the cave, except Aladdin uses the lamp to appear noble to win the girl, while Jafar wants to use the lamp to marry the girl to make him noble. And Jasmine's own dad is trying to marry her off to someone for political advantage anyway, so Jafar's action aren't that heinous, and IIRC, he's pretty much only interested in her for her political connections. He's not (IIRC - it's been a while since I've seen it) drooling over her like Frollo does over Esmerelda in Hunchback.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:13 PM
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I consider myself fairly well Disney-educated, but wow. This thread is amazing!

We are watching all the Disney animated classics on Disney+.
So far just Snow White for us, but damn, that Queen is messed up. I guess real people do terrible things to be the prettiest in real life, which is kind of depressing.

As an aside, the creepy Prince kissing wasn't quite as creepy as I was expecting it to be. They meet early in the film and had already fallen in love.

Last edited by sachertorte; 11-18-2019 at 01:17 PM.
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