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Old 03-09-2011, 01:26 PM
aceplace57 is offline
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Did half the town Rape this girl?


Wow, this story keeps getting bigger and bigger. Cleveland Texas only has 7,600 people.

So far, they've arrested over 20 people for raping this 11 year old girl. It isn't over yet either. The police are still investigating. It's a mix of adult men and teen boys that are involved.
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As of Monday, 13 adults and five juveniles had been arrested as part of the investigation, authorities said. A defense attorney for one of the suspects told CNN affiliate KPRC that the number of suspects could increase.
Plus, the kids at the high school were passing the video around the school. No telling how many more could be arrested on child porn charges.

This is one hell of a mess. I can't believe no one came forward and reported this. The victim finally reported it days later.
Quote:
One woman, who said her nephew was among those arrested, said the community has been torn apart by the case.

"It's upsetting everybody," said the woman, who didn't want her name used. "It ain't nobody in this community not upset behind this. It's pitiful."
http://www.khou.com/home/More-arrest...116763099.html

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/08/...sts/index.html

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-09-2011 at 01:29 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-09-2011, 01:59 PM
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MsNbc's video has some good information. They were using an abandoned trailer. At least one guy had an on going sexual relationship with this 11 year old before & after the incident. They are estimating over 28 men may be involved.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...91272#41991272

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-09-2011 at 02:01 PM.
  #3  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:29 PM
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The affidavit said the assault started after a 19-year-old boy invited the victim to ride around in his car. He took her to a house on Travis Street where one of the other men charged, also 19, lived. There the girl was ordered to disrobe and was sexually assaulted by several boys in the bedroom and bathroom. She was told she would be beaten if she did not comply, the affidavit said.

New York Times


*stuffily* In my country a nineteen-yr-old who offered a ride to an eleven-yr-old would be considered odd.

Last edited by Claverhouse; 03-09-2011 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:20 PM
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I'd like to think that's odd in our country too... Of course, Texas wants to be a different country, maybe this is part of it.

Love this bit of classiness from the NYT story:
Quote:
Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands — known as the Quarters — said the victim had been visiting various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground, some said.

“Where was her mother? What was her mother thinking?” said Ms. Harrison, one of a handful of neighbors who would speak on the record. “How can you have an 11-year-old child missing down in the Quarters?”
And the story indicates that the victim herself didn't report the incident, that it was an elementary school student who saw the video who reported it to a teacher, who reported it to the administration, who determined it didn't take place on school grounds and who reported it to police.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:28 PM
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Jesus Christ. I'm going to go shower for a while to get the ick off. Do let me know when you've successfully nuked that place into a shallow, glassy bowl, though, OK?
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:33 PM
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Wow.............This makes me sad.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:35 PM
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This kind of thing makes me want to bring back mass crucifixion.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:41 PM
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I used to hear stories about gangbangers running trains on girls, some as many as 50 but I always thought it was a big of exaggeration. Not that they didn't run trains, just the number of guys willing to do it.

Another example of mob mentality, poor kid
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:42 PM
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Men are fucking scum.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
Men are fucking scum.
Some men (obviously) are, some men aren't. Given the gender balance in law enforcement, many, probably most of the people involved in going after the people responsible for this are men too, you know. So are most of the people who passed laws against such behavior. If men were all scum they wouldn't bother.

Last edited by Der Trihs; 03-09-2011 at 05:46 PM.
  #11  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:48 PM
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It just disgusts me whenever I get a glimpse at the percentage of men who are willing to do things like this.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:37 PM
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Having lived in east Texas, and hunted near Cleveland for several years, this story, though very sickening does not surprise me. Cleveland has been a hell hole for a long time, in highschool we used to hate having to play football games there. I hope they lock every single one of those sons of bitches up in Huntsville for a long, long, time.

An interesting side note, the place in town where the rapes occured is not now, nor ever has been known as "The Quarters". It's known locally as "The Hood". I suspect a Times reporter found that term to be politically insensitive.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:54 PM
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Nm. I'm not getting into it.

Last edited by AClockworkMelon; 03-09-2011 at 06:54 PM.
  #14  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:12 PM
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My God that's horrifying. I hope all involved pay dearly for it and that little girl gets some much needed help.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:15 PM
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This kind of thing makes me want to bring back mass crucifixion.
*Warning: bad tangent*


Whilst vaguely sympathising with this desire, I rejected it as one does a lot of capital punishment, for inflicting pain, which is a different matter to merely executing people, and I mused it would be best if they were separately escorted on walks in the countryside by a small troop genially commanded by a trustworthy fellow, and none returned: 'Tragic accidents', 'No-one could foresee Mr. X's having suddenly thrown himself up a cliff, etc. etc.' 'Everyone declared blameless'. --- which led me to brood on the fact I have never read Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events, which I really should some day --- so I looked it up on Wikipedia, and there I found Texas once more.


The series has come under criticism from some school districts for its dark themes. Citing objections to the suggested incest (referring to Olaf's attempt to marry his distant niece Violet in The Bad Beginning, although his motivation was not sexual in nature, but rather an attempt to gain the Baudelaire fortune) and the word "damn" being said twice in The Reptile Room.

Access to the books was similarly restricted at Katy ISD Elementary School, Katy, Fort Bend County, Texas.


Good to know they are protecting the children so well.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:36 PM
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What a double-edged sword. Now that cellphone videos have circulated, they will exist, somewhere, forever. But if video evidence didn't exist there would likely never be any charges laid, or the rapes would be a case of they said/she said. Not that evidence is going to keep this girl from being called a liar (if she chooses to testify) and a slut, as in this gang rape case, or keep from perpetrators and their friends and family from continuing to claim their innocence, as in this gang rape case.

I guess, in the end, having people you trusted, and apathetic strangers, watch you get violated over and over then decide to broadcast the event to equally sadistic friends is a blessing in disguise. I do think these assholes should be charged with child pornography (and, according to the links, some have). Including the teenagers. Maybe especially the teenagers – they need a huge fucking wake-up call that their actions, even in fantasy internetland, have consequences.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:16 PM
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... snip
it was an elementary school student who saw the video who reported it to a teacher,
Well done kid.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:27 PM
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I do think these assholes should be charged with child pornography (and, according to the links, some have). Including the teenagers. Maybe especially the teenagers – they need a huge fucking wake-up call that their actions, even in fantasy internetland, have consequences.
I don't think that you are wrong, but I understand that child-porn is usually a Federal issue, and so if the teens are found guilty of child-porn charges, it will indeed be a "fucking wake-up call" in that for all intents and purposes, their lives will be essentially destroyed, permanently.

Of course, the teens were apparently complicit in destroying a little 11 year-old girl's life, so it's hard to feel too badly for any of the perps, teens and adults alike, but this won't likely be a slap on the hand in a juvie-court setting that the punk teens could laugh off.

An incredible vile situation, all the way around.

Last edited by MPB in Salt Lake; 03-09-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:17 PM
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I hope their lives are destroyed, but I fear they'll cop to some deal and get minimal sentences.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:26 PM
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I hope their lives are destroyed, but I fear they'll cop to some deal and get minimal sentences.
Maybe one or two of them in exchange for their testimony and then the rest can rot. I could live with that.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:38 PM
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This story is awful, and the NYTimes coverage is fucking garbage. What the fuck does it matter if she wears makeup? Does that make it ok to rape her? Who knows where her mother is? Maybe she was looking for her desperately, maybe she was strung out on crack. Does that make it ok for a group of men to gang rape an eleven year old? Why even fucking say that shit? The whole thing was, "Oh these poor boys, their lives will be ruined!"

So sick.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:53 PM
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This kind of thing makes me want to bring back mass crucifixion.
Sadly the Supreme Court has decided we can't even lethally inject any of this sickos. If ever there was a justification for capital rape laws.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:58 PM
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This story is awful, and the NYTimes coverage is fucking garbage.
Absolutely. You've pointed out the worst of it, obviously, but the story is just littered with ridiculous language more befitting a TV script a la Criminal Minds than a piece of journalism.

Also, the whole deal about the make up and dressing older than her age makes it seem like it would be okay to hold an adult woman against her will and gang rape her. The story is, of course, more horrific because this is a middle school student we're talking about, but nothing makes it better or okay.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:06 AM
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I thought the part about the makeup and clothes was to point out the lack of parental care in this girl's life.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:23 AM
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I thought the part about the makeup and clothes was to point out the lack of parental care in this girl's life.
Maybe it was, but it doesn't fucking matter. She is the victim. I want to know where the mothers of sick fucking scum who raped her are. That's is a pertinent fucking question. The lack of parental care in the victim's life is neither here nor there. What is the point?
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:36 AM
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I want to know where the mothers of sick fucking scum who raped her are.
I would bet that in more than one or two cases, the mothers of the accused are busy getting 2nd mortgages or other loans taken out on their homes so they can use the money to bail their (allegedly) child raping teen-aged sons out of jail.

Dosen't make it right, but many parents stick by their kids, no matter how fucked-up the situation.

Finally, in my first post, I was most certainly NOT trying to advocate for a token, slap-on-the-wrist punishment for the teen attackers. I was pointing out that when it comes to kiddie porn, the justice system does not play around, at least around here. These teens have gotten themselves into a situation that will affect the rest of their lives, and of course God only knows how the 11 year-old victim will ever heal.

Last edited by MPB in Salt Lake; 03-10-2011 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:53 AM
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if it were my son, he could do the fucking time. not that it would be my son but you get my meaning. Freaken scumbags should be locked up for years.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:04 AM
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It just disgusts me whenever I get a glimpse at the percentage of men who are willing to do things like this.
Dio, I love men, and I think they are our friends, partners and allies. But I kind of agree with you. It is sickening, heartbreaking, terrifying and stunning the sheer percentage of men who will, with the tiniest gap in social controls. rape women.

Think about marauding soldiers taking a town. They rape. They rape in massive numbers. These are not evil people. They are ordinary soldiers, maybe even our own relatives. But when they have the opportunity to rape, they in overwhelming numbers rape.

I've been in places where men have access to underage girls- and I'm not talking 17 year olds. In large numbers, they are perfectly willing to try it. If an 11 year old prostitute shows up at your room, a lot of men will go through with it.

The one time I was subject to a rape attempt, it was purely opportunity. I was physically hurt in an isolated place with no way to help myself. Someone came along and saw that as the chance to do something that perhaps he always wanted to do- or perhaps something he never considered but suddenly decided to do. I was able to talk him out of it pretty easily. He ended up helping me get help. I don't think he was evil or even extraordinary. He just saw a chance.

I'm not sure how to process this thought. How do you reconcile the fact that most ordinary men (maybe ordinary people) will not only support but perpetuate great evil if they feel they can get away with it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:00 AM
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How do you reconcile the fact that most ordinary men (maybe ordinary people) will not only support but perpetuate great evil if they feel they can get away with it.
Most men are wannabe rapists? Bullshit.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:47 AM
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Maybe it was, but it doesn't fucking matter. She is the victim. I want to know where the mothers of sick fucking scum who raped her are. That's is a pertinent fucking question. The lack of parental care in the victim's life is neither here nor there. What is the point?
A lack of parental care may go far beyond simple negligence (which is pretty bad when it comes to children anyway). This could go as far as complicity in the crime. The point of the news coverage should be to report the whole story (and I'm not defending the coverage here, it does suck), and any information about the circumstances is relevant. Even if you don't like the news story, it is no more responsible for the crime than the girl is. You probably won't hear much about the mothers of the rapists. Their children are all good boys who were pressured into commiting a horrific act by those other mother's bad kids.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:32 AM
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This story certainly makes me shudder. To amplify that comment might just seem like trite opportunism.

But I hope I'm not accused of condoning such rape by objecting to this:

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Originally Posted by miss elizabeth View Post
This story is awful, and the NYTimes coverage is fucking garbage. What the fuck does it matter if she wears makeup? Does that make it ok to rape her? ... The whole thing was, "Oh these poor boys, their lives will be ruined!"
I'll agree the story raises interesting questions about Cleveland's citizens (one is quoted saying “I really wish that this could end in a better light.”) However I strongly disagree with miss elizabeth's take. I want my journalists to tell as complete a story as they can, not to choose selectively which facts best fit a "correct" perspective and which don't. For example, knowing the races of individuals in the story might add insight, but I don't think reporters are allowed to reveal that.

(I score as Briggs-Meyer INTP-Perceptive while many Dopers are INTJ-Judgmental. That difference shows up over and over in some of these threads.)

Last edited by septimus; 03-10-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:34 AM
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This story is awful, and the NYTimes coverage is fucking garbage.
There is a petition going to get the NYTimes to print an apology for the victim-blaming rhetoric that the story is littered with. Putting any focus on what the victim of a sex crime is wearing or doing is bad enough, but when it's a child, and a gang rape, it's just beyond the pale. Journalistic integrity went right out the window on this story.
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Even if you don't like the news story, it is no more responsible for the crime than the girl is.
No, it's just responsible for reinforcing and propping up the rape culture in which we live.
  #33  
Old 03-10-2011, 03:35 AM
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God, what an awful tragedy =(
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:35 AM
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I too think it's important to know all of the facts and the backgrounds of the players in this terrible tragedy. It is not condoning the actions of the men and boys who violated the little girl to understand that she may have been at the time a willing participant in the activity. If anything that makes it sadder, that a young girl was familiar with the rites of sexual activity, and agreed to be used in such a dehumanising way, speaks volumes for the family background, the community and the society in which she lives.

Now if I need to make it clearer, again, the animals who abused this little girl need to go away for a long, long time. They need to be shown the error of their ways, forcibly if necessary. But it is also incumbent upon the 'victims' (the girl, her family and her community) to look within themselves as to how to prevent this sort of shit happening in the future.

This was not a child snatched from a bedroom and taken away to be gang-raped by strangers: this was a child who engaged with her abusers voluntarily, and suffered the worst possible consequences. And at some point, she and her family are going to have to face some pretty challenging issues......I hope sooner rather than later.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:56 AM
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Most men are wannabe rapists? Bullshit.
Most people, in very standard situations (a bit of mob mentality, for example) are at risk of making the bad choice. Even for normal people, evil may be a step away. We've seen this time after time. Remember in Rwanda how ordinary people, egged on by something as slight as radio broadcasts, quickly turned to their neighbors and systematically slaughtered them.

Being a good person means nothing. Good is a choice we have to make, every single day without cease.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:35 AM
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I too think it's important to know all of the facts and the backgrounds of the players in this terrible tragedy. It is not condoning the actions of the men and boys who violated the little girl to understand that she may have been at the time a willing participant in the activity.
I agree that it's important to know all the facts in the case. Here are some facts:

1. The men started out by threatening the little girl with a beating if she didn't take off her clothes.

2. They also threatened to beat her if she didn't comply with their sexual requests.

3. Wearing makeup and grown up clothes does not imply automatic consent for sex with twenty partners.

4. She was in middle school. She still liked stuffed animals.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:45 AM
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Most people, in very standard situations (a bit of mob mentality, for example) are at risk of making the bad choice. Even for normal people, evil may be a step away. We've seen this time after time. Remember in Rwanda how ordinary people, egged on by something as slight as radio broadcasts, quickly turned to their neighbors and systematically slaughtered them.

Being a good person means nothing. Good is a choice we have to make, every single day without cease.
Backpeddling much?

Being good is not an active struggle. In most situations I don't even think about doing the "wrong" thing. It isn't a consideration or a factor. In fact I'd argue that it's more the other way around. It's far easier to do the right thing, or nothing, than to willingly choose to engage in bad behaviour. If someone's default setting is on "evil" and they have to remind themselves to be good at all times, there is something wrong with them.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:33 AM
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For example, knowing the races of individuals in the story might add insight, but I don't think reporters are allowed to reveal that.
I am unaware of any legal restriction concerning the identification of the race of the accused in a story about crime (or anything else). There may be ethical concerns that I can see, like only mentioning it if it is germane to the crime somehow, but it's not like identifying rape victims where there are legal restrictions (in some states) that forbid it.

For the story in the NYT I can see the reporters problem straightaway. He's got a horrific crime and little to no facts. The only ones who are talking who know anything are the people related in some way to the accused. It's clear from the reporting that he had little info from the police and NO access to the victim or her family. Therefore the story that comes out is going to have things about the victim that are unflattering because that's a basic way people gossip.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
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Finally, in my first post, I was most certainly NOT trying to advocate for a token, slap-on-the-wrist punishment for the teen attackers. I was pointing out that when it comes to kiddie porn, the justice system does not play around, at least around here. These teens have gotten themselves into a situation that will affect the rest of their lives, and of course God only knows how the 11 year-old victim will ever heal.
I am not at all concerned that the teens will be permanently affected. They actively did something that was horrendously harmful. If they knew it was wrong, and did it anyway, then they need to be locked up forever. If they DIDN'T know it was wrong, then they should be locked up forever, because they are broken.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:49 AM
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Since the accused like to do things together, if they are convicted I'd be in favor of them all sharing a mass, anonymous grave.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:51 AM
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If anything that makes it sadder, that a young girl was familiar with the rites of sexual activity, and agreed to be used in such a dehumanising way, speaks volumes for the family background, the community and the society in which she lives.
I agree. It seems from some of the stories that the young victim had an ongoing sexual relationship with at least one of the men charged. I'm inclined to suppose that the girl discovered at her early age through various messages (parenting, siblings, media, music, etc.) that her female wiles might get her attention and perhaps even popularity. The first tragedy was her familiarity. The second was not having an inkling that she was being dehumanized. (Again, I suppose, but my supposition is based on someone else reporting the rape/videos).

Men have been fascinated and repelled by their own fascination of "young girls" in our society since we established the values that set the age of consent - think Lolita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita. Finding an 11 year-old attractive as an appropriate sexual partner is not beyond the realm of understanding. What is difficult to comprehend is the lack of values and mores of the men who raped her and the families of those men. It would seem they are confused by the difference between 'having sex with' and 'rape'.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:55 AM
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An interesting side note, the place in town where the rapes occured is not now, nor ever has been known as "The Quarters". It's known locally as "The Hood". I suspect a Times reporter found that term to be politically insensitive.
Maybe they should have compromised and called it 3/5ths Place?
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:57 AM
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I agree. It seems from some of the stories that the young victim had an ongoing sexual relationship with at least one of the men charged. I'm inclined to suppose that the girl discovered at her early age through various messages (parenting, siblings, media, music, etc.) that her female wiles might get her attention and perhaps even popularity.
her "female wiles?" She was eleven. That us is sick. She didn't have a "sexual relationship," she was being sexually abused (and probably from an earlier age than eleven, I doubt that guy was the first). Trying to make her in any way complicit or suggest that she wanted any of this is offensive.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:58 AM
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For the record, I don't see how either the victim's clothes or the races of anyone involved has any journalistic relevance.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
Dio
I'm not sure how to process this thought. How do you reconcile the fact that most ordinary men (maybe ordinary people) will not only support but perpetuate great evil if they feel they can get away with it.
"Great evil" is a bit of a catch-all term. I think its true that most men (and women) would rob another blind if they thought they could get away with it.

Violent rape is another thing altogether, and I don't think most men support it or are capable of perpetrating it. Just my opinion though.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
her "female wiles?" She was eleven. That us is sick. She didn't have a "sexual relationship," she was being sexually abused (and probably from an earlier age than eleven, I doubt that guy was the first). Trying to make her in any way complicit or suggest that she wanted any of this is offensive.
I didn't in any way intend to cast any blame on the victim with my use of "wiles". It was intended to be commentary on the many messages to which she's likely been exposed - watch any reality show aimed at teens; look at a magazine aimed at young women; listen to lyrics. To me it is apparent that she is not getting the kind of parental guidance that would help her sort out those messages - or even make them age-appropriate.

Likewise a 'sexual relationship' in this case IS abuse - but not perhaps a distinction SHE made. Which is why I stated this:
Quote:
The second was not having an inkling that she was being dehumanized. (Again, I suppose, but my supposition is based on someone else reporting the rape/videos).
I'm coming from this angle from my own personal history. I started getting male attention when I was about 11 myself. I dressed incredibly inappropriately (after sneaking out of the house) until my mother caught me. I was getting positive attention that made me feel good - and that's why I did it. I had been fairly unpopular with boys to that point - but suddenly I made myself look a little more grown up (sexual) and lots of boys wanted to be my friend. Would I have had the maturity to NOT follow through with any invitation to sex at that time? I doubt it. The fact is I lost my virginity at 12. To a 14 year-old. But it could have been much, much, worse had I not lived with a watchful mother.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:14 AM
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When I was 14 and my little sister was 12, we were involved with some local volunteer organizations. A "side effect" of this involvement is that we were spending a lot of time with adults and attending a lot of parties, fundraiser things with open bars -- as well as after-work get togethers.

While no one tried to forcibly rape us, we got seriously hit on...............A LOT. Mostly by guys with wives and young children.

I never went for it. My sister, who had some psychological issues, did. Frequently. Sometimes she would decide she wanted to sleep with one of these guys and would make it happen for whatever reason ( once she did it becasue she thought the guy's wife was a bitch ). I only saw her fail once, with a handsome local actor that refused to see her as anything but a child and finally told her to cut it out.

She probably had sex with 20 or so men ------------- not trailer park types but "pillar of the community" types before she was 13.

So, I believe most men have it in them to be scum if they think they won't get caught.

This was back in the early '70's when stuff like this wasn't really as criminal as it would be now. These days it would probably be considered odd for young teens to be attending open bar parties that ran well past midnight without their parents.................of course my parents thought we were being sufficiently "supervised" by the upstanding older folks.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 03-10-2011 at 09:19 AM.
  #48  
Old 03-10-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
She probably had sex with 20 or so men ------------- not trailer park types but "pillar of the community" types before she was 13.

So, I believe most men have it in them to be scum if they think they won't get caught.
So, I take it you and your sister interacted with 40 or less men in total?
  #49  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
her "female wiles?" She was eleven. That us is sick.
I used to work in a residential facility in Oklahoma for emotionally disturbed children. These were the hard cases who had nowhere else to go. I remember one 7 year old girl. She was cute in a 7-year-old-girl way, but I remember that she made me very uncomfortable. For instance, one of the things that she would do when I spoke with her was make eye contact, learn forward, and place her hand on my arm. It's hard to describe, but it was exactly the same behavior that adults use that can communicate sexual attraction.

The point is that she was definitely NOT sexually attracted to me. Instead, she was sexually abused by her father starting at an early age (3 or 4, I think). One survival mechanism that some sexually abused children learn to get "love" from men is to encourage the sick behavior that they equate with love. Some become very good at it. It's the only love they know. Luckily, the staff met with a therapist each week and he helped identify where my discomfort was coming from. It was the dissonance I felt between the girl and her surprisingly sophisticated "come hither" behavior.

I have absolutely no idea if this is what was going on with the poor girl in the article, but it does happen, and I wouldn't be surprised in this case. Also, before anyone jumps in, this in no way absolves the animals who raped her. People with a modicum of decency recognize that an 11 year old girl sending sexual signals (if that is what she was doing) doesn't mean an invitation; it means that something isn't right.

One of our goals with this girl was to ignore this behavior, but show our real love and affection for her otherwise. This is a long process. I worked there for about 2 years and she was still there when I left.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
Dio, I love men, and I think they are our friends, partners and allies. But I kind of agree with you. It is sickening, heartbreaking, terrifying and stunning the sheer percentage of men who will, with the tiniest gap in social controls. rape women.

Think about marauding soldiers taking a town. They rape. They rape in massive numbers. These are not evil people. They are ordinary soldiers, maybe even our own relatives. But when they have the opportunity to rape, they in overwhelming numbers rape.

...

I'm not sure how to process this thought. How do you reconcile the fact that most ordinary men (maybe ordinary people) will not only support but perpetuate great evil if they feel they can get away with it.
Didn't you pit a guy earlier this week for chatting shat about women and dating? And now you're here trying to claim that most men are potential rapists? What the fuck?
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