Straight Dope Message Board

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian

At least you're acknowledging that black people are treated with a different standard by police than white people. That places you ahead of your peers here who remain racist as well as fascist. You want an iron fist of justice for all!

It is indeed a point in his favor that he's an equal-opportunity fascist. 251

[Algher]

We already listed Utah, but here is one of their shootings (white shot by police):

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58...-gill.html.csp

DA says Dillon Taylor officer-involved killing was justified

252

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by clairobscur

Still, presumably, *some* people the police interact with in the UK or Japan are armed. Including some that aren't 12 and actually dangerous. And somehow the British or Japanese police didn't kill *anybody* that year. Neither 12 yo nor hardened criminals.

Which means in my opinion that they're not just facing a less armed populace but also that they're much less trigger happy.

The whole video shows how insane the behaviour of the police was. First, to, my surprise, the kid actually looked like a kid. I was somehow expecting he wouldn't.

The police car drives right on him and stops just besides him. Which is insane if they were expecting a dangerous situation. And it doesn't look like a threatening situation at all. Maybe I'm mistaken about something, but I don't believe I would have felt threatened the slightest bit had I randomly passed by. But of course, it's obvious that the police doesn't take a second to assess the situation, as anybody sensible would have done.

And then of course, they shot him immediatly, and I can't see they could expect him to react appropriately in so short a time, *assuming* they were extremely clear in their instructions, which I doubt was possible from what I see.

Finally, even if the kid actually had the gun in hand and pointing it at them, I can't see that as a legitimate reason to open fire, given that...he was fucking 12! Again, I wasn't on the scene so I can't tell for certain, but I have a hard time conceiving doing something else than telling the kid to put his gun down in such a situation.


Those cops aren't below the standard I would expect for a trained cop, they're below the standard I would expect for a random, not very bright and easily panicked, civilian

Half the police force would be bagging your groceries at Walmart if it wasn't for the prospect of work in the government.

Incompetent and unprofessional is what you're going to get.

We need to make training a LOT better, testing on the field and off, very meticulous, re-training and continued training needs to be part of their career, and we need to pay them a hell of a lot better too.

We need to be training and employing police officers that aren't going to act like the douches in a lot of these threads, and we need tools that can quickly and efficiently eliminate any cops not competent enough to be police officers.

You also need some major shake up in the way police do their work and interact with their communities. Transparency and accountability need to be more than just words thrown around. 253

[monstro]

Charges dropped for cop who shot and killed a sleeping 7-year-old girl

The quote of the day:

Steve Fishman, Weekley’s attorney, claimed that even though he did not dispute that his client pulled the trigger and killed the girl, “there is absolutely no evidence, none, that’s in the least bit credible, that Officer Weekley knowingly created a danger or, more importantly, intended to cause injury.”

Why people aren't rioting over this, I don't know. I feel like tossing a garbage can into someone's storefront window my damn self. 254

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by monstro

Charges dropped for cop who shot and killed a sleeping 7-year-old girl

The quote of the day:



Why people aren't rioting over this, I don't know. I feel like tossing a garbage can into someone's storefront window my damn self.

It truly is appalling.

I'm sure the SDMB Police Defense Force will be along to explain how it's completely understandable though. 255

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Peremensoe

It truly is appalling.

I'm sure the SDMB Police Defense Force will be along to explain how it's completely understandable though.

It was her own fault for sleeping in the wrong place. 256

[mhendo]

In the case linked by monstro, there is apparently still a possibility that an appeals court will reinstate the felony charge. You can also count me dismayed that "careless discharge of a firearm causing death" is only a misdemeanor.

If you want the full background on the whole fucked-up story of Aiyana Stanley-Jones' killing, check out this Mother Jones article. 257

[RickJay]

Silence from the resident cop lovers on the killing of a little girl. How unsurprising. 258

[gigi]

Originally Posted by RickJay

One waits in vain for the people who say there's no problem with the way black people are generally treated by the police to explain this one.

I'm not defending the cop either, but who the fuck calls the police to say they are unsettled by someone walking by with their hands in their pockets? The general population in that neighborhood has to take some of the blame for that one. 259

[bengangmo]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

It was her own fault for sleeping in the wrong place.

Exactly! Who the fuck sleeps on a sofa, in a dark room somewhere the police might be looking for a murderer? You do dangerous things, that make cops nervous and this is the probable outcome 260

[get lives]

Originally Posted by bengangmo

Exactly! Who the fuck sleeps on a sofa, in a dark room somewhere the police might be looking for a murderer? You do dangerous things, that make cops nervous and this is the probable outcome

This is a funny post, but it also makes me sad. 261

[bengangmo]

Originally Posted by get lives

This is a funny post, but it also makes me sad.

I'm not a 'Mercan,

But this is exactly the attitude that is expressed in almost every thread on police shootings I see here - it was in the 12 year old with the air pistol thread, so while I was aiming for satire - it's really not very far from the truth of how I see the attitude towards police in the US.

I could well imagine, if instead of sleeping the girl had stumbled out of the bedrooms in the aftermath of the "flash bang" she would have been shot, and it would have been considered ok because she seemed like a threat, or because she should have known that when the police come the first thing you do is lay supine on the floor. 262

[Snowboarder Bo]

Originally Posted by mhendo

In the case linked by monstro, there is apparently still a possibility that an appeals court will reinstate the felony charge. You can also count me dismayed that "careless discharge of a firearm causing death" is only a misdemeanor.

The article you link to is dated 3 October 2014, monstro's link is dated 30 November 2014, and includes this:

The trial was brought to an end while the Michigan Court of Appeals reviewed an emergency appeal of the ruling.

Presiding Judge Michael Talbot issued the order to deny the appeal and allow the judge’s dismal to stand.

“Although I find that the trial court erred in form and substance in granting defendant’s motion for directed verdict, we are barred from reviewing that decision,” Talbot wrote.

ISTM that the article itself is mostly to give that bit of news and to let people know that, haha!, Justice sometimes get fucked up too. 263

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Silence from the resident cop lovers on the killing of a little girl. How unsurprising.

Occasionally we do other things, like sleep and so forth.

Just reading the linked article, it appears the cop was blinded by a flash grenade and didn't see anyone there. That more or less rules out murder or manslaughter. BUT he still fired his submachine gun into a house he presumably expected to be occupied, with no idea who he may or may not have been hitting. There's no reasonable argument for self defence that I can see, and the level of recklessness that firing in that manner displays ought to be a serious crime in itself, and if it causes the death of someone it should be considered about as serious a crime as manslaughter.

This case, unlike many of the other cases mentioned, doesn't involve a situation where someone had the option to comply with the police, but chose not to. Those are the cases where us "resident cop lovers" tend to defend the police. 264

[BigAppleBucky]

Old incident, new story.

“Drop his f***** ass, drop his ass!!” one officer can be heard saying on the dashcam right before six cops put 23 bullets into a man who was lying on the ground.

In the aftermath of this case, it was discovered that police not only shot an innocent man 23 times while he was surrounded by a half dozen officers, but also that those officers attempted to plant evidence, tamper with the crime scene, make false statements and stage a massive cover up for a murder.

After the shooting, police can be seen pacing around the body and tampering with the crime scene. Later, it was revealed that the police officers there tried to plant multiple knives on his body and claim that he “had a knife.” However, the officers did such a poor job at covering their tracks while planting the weapon that they could not even enter it as evidence in the case.

One of the officers even went so far as to say that he was stabbed, although it was later found that he was not stabbed, and no knife belonging to Jones was actually found or entered as evidence.

The cover-up didnt stop there, when the police finally released the dash-cam footage it was obviously tampered with, large segments of audio and video were missing from the footage, and the time-stamps did not even match up. Even with the edits, the dash-cam footage does provide a number of clues into what actually took place, including one admission from an officer who said “he wasn’t “f****** doing nothing – so we all shot him”

As usual, the victim was black and the cops got off scott free.

***
I'll take this opportunity to add something personal here. I have contributed to this thread several times now. Never in my life have I personally witnessed police misbehavior. The few times (as the reporter of minor complaints) that I have interacted directly with the police, I have found the individual cops to be professional, competent and polite. It may be that's because I'm white and usually polite myself.

That may be why I find these reports of apparent police misconduct so shocking. I want my law enforcement officers to be paragons of obedience to the law, not thugs. 265

[gigi]

Originally Posted by bengangmo

she should have known that when the police come the first thing you do is lay supine on the floor.

Supine?! Are you kidding -- supine is aggressive. Prone, maggot, and don't look me in the eye. 266

[iiandyiiii]

The police officer who killed Eric Garner with a chokehold (this chokehold is apparently prohibited by the NYPD), caught on video, was not indicted for Garner's death.

Whether or not this police officer should have been indicted, why was force necessary in the first place? The man was unarmed, upset, and not engaged in any activity dangerous to those around him, and it seems like this is a prime example of retreat being the wisest option. 267

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

it seems like this is a prime example of retreat being the wisest option.

I'll revise this -- not necessarily "retreat", but de-escalation rather than escalation. 268

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBucky

Old incident, new story.

“Drop his f***** ass, drop his ass!!” one officer can be heard saying on the dashcam right before six cops put 23 bullets into a man who was lying on the ground.





As usual, the victim was black and the cops got off scott free.

***
I'll take this opportunity to add something personal here. I have contributed to this thread several times now. Never in my life have I personally witnessed police misbehavior. The few times (as the reporter of minor complaints) that I have interacted directly with the police, I have found the individual cops to be professional, competent and polite. It may be that's because I'm white and usually polite myself.

That may be why I find these reports of apparent police misconduct so shocking. I want my law enforcement officers to be paragons of obedience to the law, not thugs.

I don't understand. All of this came to light and yet they got away with murder? Hos does this happen? How does the federal government NOT get involved at this stage? 269

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

I don't understand. All of this came to light and yet they got away with murder? Hos does this happen?

It's funny how it works - all this is clear, obvious, and unmistakeable. Yet a grand jury refuses to indict, and the family's lawsuit is dismissed. It's almost as if there were more to the story than one would think.

Regards,
Shodan 270

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by Shodan

It's funny how it works - all this is clear, obvious, and unmistakeable. Yet a grand jury refuses to indict, and the family's lawsuit is dismissed. It's almost as if there were more to the story than one would think.

Regards,
Shodan

So is there?

In the current climate, and the willingness of local government to shield their police departments I wouldn't be surprised if there was a coverup. But I'd like to know if the article as presented above misleading. 271

[Kinthalis]

While trying to find more articles on this particular incident I found this little gem:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/06...ises-concerns/

Jeebus. Some ass-hat shoots a cop, and all the cops immediately turn into vigilantes. Not only do they murder two unarmed guys in a car they suspected the perp to be in, but where obviously wrong about, by basically shooting the car on sight, but they endangered an entire neighborhood in their revenge killing, sending hundreds of rounds through other cars, business and homes AND even their own officers, one was almost killed by a bullet that just missed his head and another was shot in the arm.

What is the point of police if they're all just all bunch of criminals? 272

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

So is there?

In the current climate, and the willingness of local government to shield their police departments I wouldn't be surprised if there was a coverup. But I'd like to know if the article as presented above misleading.

There would have to have been a sufficient cover-up to convince a supposedly independent grand jury not to indict, and then another cover-up to convince the federal court to dismiss the family's lawsuit.

"In sum, viewing all of the circumstances, the court finds that a reasonable officer in each of the officers' shoes would have concluded that Jones posed an immediate threat of serious physical harm to all of the officers. The officers' use of deadly force therefore was justified and reasonable," Groh's opinion reads.

Regards,
Shodan 273

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by Shodan

There would have to have been a sufficient cover-up to convince a supposedly independent grand jury not to indict, and then another cover-up to convince the federal court to dismiss the family's lawsuit.

"In sum, viewing all of the circumstances, the court finds that a reasonable officer in each of the officers' shoes would have concluded that Jones posed an immediate threat of serious physical harm to all of the officers. The officers' use of deadly force therefore was justified and reasonable," Groh's opinion reads.

Regards,
Shodan

Well duh, he was obviously a threat. He was a big black guy. 274

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

Well duh, he was obviously a threat. He was a big black guy.

Who was schizophrenic and armed with a knife.

Wayne Arnold Jones, 50, of Stephens City, was shot 22 times, suffering 23 gunshot wounds, on March 13, 2013, following an incident that began in the vicinity of the 100 block of Queen Street. Jones, who suffered from schizophrenia and was homeless, was shot with a Taser twice after refusing police orders and later was fatally shot when police say he stabbed an officer with a knife during a scuffle with an officer on the ground.

...Jones' family has admitted the man had a knife, records show.

Regards,
Shodan 275

[Sicks Ate]

I've always thought it would be really heroic if a police officer died while using less-than-lethal force, on a person who had already injured him, because he was trying to preserve the life of the suspect.

I don't suppose that'll happen very often. 276

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

I've always thought it would be really heroic if a police officer died while using less-than-lethal force, on a person who had already injured him, because he was trying to preserve the life of the suspect.

I don't suppose that'll happen very often.

It's anecdotal and I don't have a cite. But Massad Ayoob, who was a police H2H consultant, tells the story of a rookie cop who confronted a man with a knife. The cop pulled his gun and demanded the knife wielder drop the weapon. Some onlooker taunted the cop with needing a gun to take one little knife away from a drunk. The cop holstered his pistol and attempted a knife disarm. He was stabbed to death.

I don't call that "heroic" so much as "stupid". I wouldn't do it, and I have practiced knife disarms at least as much as the average cop.

Regards,
Shodan 277

[you with the face]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

The police officer who killed Eric Garner with a chokehold (this chokehold is apparently prohibited by the NYPD), caught on video, was not indicted for Garner's death.

Whether or not this police officer should have been indicted, why was force necessary in the first place? The man was unarmed, upset, and not engaged in any activity dangerous to those around him, and it seems like this is a prime example of retreat being the wisest option.

This case is extra depressing. There's no valid justification for not indicting the officer who killed him. We have crystal clear evidence showing a non-aggressive guy being tackled by several men and being strangled to death. For a suspicion as lame as selling cigarettes.

I'm starting think body cams won't do shit. All the cameras will do is make the injustice harder to deny, but it won't stop the injustice. 278

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by you with the face

I'm starting think body cams won't do shit. All the cameras will do is make the injustice harder to deny, but it won't stop the injustice.

I think they can help, because enough incidents like this one would presumably cause a Selma-like critical mass of anger and disapproval nation-wide. If all the police shootings of black people in 2016 are on video, then we'll be able to determine much more accurately (if still not perfectly) which ones are legitimate and which ones aren't. 279

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

I think they can help, because enough incidents like this one would presumably cause a Selma-like critical mass of anger and disapproval nation-wide. If all the police shootings of black people in 2016 are on video, then we'll be able to determine much more accurately (if still not perfectly) which ones are legitimate and which ones aren't.

Maybe I'm a little bit cynical, but I'm guessing we're going to be hearing a lot of "Ooops, forgot to turn it on!" and "The camera failed! We swears!!" and "Our IT guy deleted the last year of video. Oops!". BUT only when ti comes to police killing black or hispanic men, and 7 year old little girls. On the other hand, there will be terabytes of cop saves the kitten and similar scenarios. Definitely not the cops go on a rampage and revenge lynching, videos, those will be scrutinize very closely, then burned. 280

[monstro]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

I think they can help, because enough incidents like this one would presumably cause a Selma-like critical mass of anger and disapproval nation-wide. If all the police shootings of black people in 2016 are on video, then we'll be able to determine much more accurately (if still not perfectly) which ones are legitimate and which ones aren't.

I want to agree, but I can't. If a grand jury can't look at that video and say, "Yeah, this was very fucked up. Let's hold the cop accountable and make him stand trial", then I don't know what could possibly convince them. The opinions of the denizens of the internet don't matter. It always comes down to whomever gets picked to serve on grand juries.

We've got footage of Tamir Rice as well. That should be a slam-dunk case, but I have a sinking feeling no one's going to be going to be jail over it either. 281

[Leaper]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

Maybe I'm a little bit cynical, but I'm guessing we're going to be hearing a lot of "Ooops, forgot to turn it on!" and "The camera failed! We swears!!" and "Our IT guy deleted the last year of video. Oops!".

Usually there are some kind of accompanying rules addressing excuses like that. I don't know what they are (they may vary by region), but I definitely remember reading about them. 282

[Leaper]

Saw a CNN graphic that said that police related shooting fatalities for African Americans are almost 31 times that of Caucasians.

I know it's possible to be racist enough to "explain" that in a way that doesn't reflect poorly on the police (I'm thinking of one specific way here), but not many people are, relatively speaking. 283

[you with the face]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

I think they can help, because enough incidents like this one would presumably cause a Selma-like critical mass of anger and disapproval nation-wide. If all the police shootings of black people in 2016 are on video, then we'll be able to determine much more accurately (if still not perfectly) which ones are legitimate and which ones aren't.

What I fear is that people will get emotional burnout and turn their attention to other things, because what's the point of all of this indigation and outrage if nothing happens? I mean, we're out the point now that kids are getting executed on video and yet no one really believes anything is going to be done about it.

If things keep going as they are, we'll have cops shooting pregnant women in the belly to get at their gun-brandishing, reaching-into-their-waistband, demon-eyed fetuses. Maybe Key and Peele should do a sketch on this. 284

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by monstro

I want to agree, but I can't. If a grand jury can't look at that video and say, "Yeah, this was very fucked up. Let's hold the cop accountable and make him stand trial", then I don't know what could possibly convince them. The opinions of the denizens of the internet don't matter. It always comes down to whomever gets picked to serve on grand juries.

We've got footage of Tamir Rice as well. That should be a slam-dunk case, but I have a sinking feeling no one's going to be going to be jail over it either.

You might be right, but I'm hopeful (and optimistic) that more and more such videos will eventually catch on with people -- people who have never had bad personal experiences with police (most white people) -- in the same way that the videos of the Selma protest and police brutality did for people who had previously thought that black people had nothing to complain about.

Plus, it's an idea with pretty wide support, so I think it's a feasible next step. 285

[DinoR]

Ann Arbor officer got two complaints earlier this year where he offered to fix traffic tickets in exchange for sex. Definitely ranks as potentially controversial encounter... except he resigned while still under investigation, the case got turned over to the state police, and the Michigan State Police are currently waiting on prosecutor to authorize an indictment. I'd guess that could be a charge that lands him on the sex offender registry if convicted.

Controversial encounter becoming a non-controversial case of handling a fucked up officer. Nothing to see here. Move along. 286

[Chimera]

Absolutely fucking stellar...

I walk down to Arby's in downtown Minneapolis for lunch about 45 minutes ago. Part of the sidewalk nearby (about 40' long) is marked as closed by police tape for no obvious reason. Cop SUV parked next to it, no cop. I go in, get my lunch, am coming back and now there's a cop standing there on the street nearby. I stop to ask him why it is closed.

Me: "Do you know why this piece of sidewalk is closed?"
Cop: "Yes" (and then silence)
Me: "Ok, doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it"
(officer points up. There's someone working on the outside of the building about 20 floors up.)
Me: "Ah" (nodded my head, started to turn away)
Cop: (growls) "Stop shaking your head"
Me: (kept walking)

Oh fuck you, Officer Unstable. 287

[Shooby]

These killings have been going on forever, but it's finally in the age where everyone has a video camera on hand that we can finally muster sustained outrage. Rodney King was the proto-example, but for the most part, these killings have been he-said she-said, and who would not take that boy scout cop's word?

The Eric Garner case in particular is ridiculous. Getting killed after already being taken down, strangled to death, over possibly selling cigarettes on the street? If I was in New York, I'd be right there with the protesters.

Sometimes I think peaceful protests don't actually do anything. People usually hunker down, deal with a little bad PR, and wait for it to blow over. It's only when normal disinterested people are actually scared for their safety or property that there's enough political will to make meaningful change. So I guess I'm kinda hoping that things burn, because that's the only way we seem to learn. 288

[PastTense]

The deadly shooting of a black, unarmed drug suspect by a white Phoenix police officer who mistook a pill bottle for a gun demonstrates the challenges law enforcement agencies face at a time of unrest over police tactics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6273278.html 289

[Measure for Measure]

Originally Posted by Kinthalis

What is the point of police if they're all just all bunch of criminals?

In many third world countries, it's commonly understood that the cops and crims are recruited from similar demographics and indeed act in not incomparable ways. In the West, police are more professional, relatively speaking. Well functioning police forces protect and serve. The other types exist to defend a regime.
-----


Rand Paul provides us with a wider perspective. He thinks there's a bigger story behind the police inflicted choking death of Eric Garner, and I have to say I agree. Rand Paul:

I think it's hard not to watch that video, of him saying "I can't breathe I can't breathe" and not be horrified by it. But I think there's something bigger than just the individual circumstances. Obviously the individual circumstances are important, but I think it's also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes, so they've driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive. But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, ‘Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette.' And for someone to die over breaking that law, there really is no excuse for it. But I do blame the politicians. We've put our police in a difficult situation with bad laws."

Yeah, we really have to reconsider our policies on, wait what? Cigarette taxes?? That's the bigger picture?? 290

[crowmanyclouds]

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure

{...} Yeah, we really have to reconsider our policies on, wait what? Cigarette taxes?? That's the bigger picture??

Gotta pimp that libertarian philosophy at every opportunity!

He just might want to talk to the guy that actually did say "Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette",

{...} The sale of loosies had been on Chief of Department Philip Banks’ radar since at least March, when it was discussed at a meeting at Police Headquarters about quality-of-life issues, a police source said.

Banks’ office also conducted surveillance on Bay St. and took pictures, one of which shows three men believed to be involved in an illegal cigarette sale. The News reviewed the photograph and Garner is not in it.

At around the same time, on March 27, a caller to the city’s 311 hotline complained about the issue, saying a group of men had been selling untaxed cigarettes, and sometimes marijuana, on Bay St. every day for the past three years, a second source said.

The caller identified one of the sellers as “a man named Eric.” {...}

CITE

'Cause he doesn't appear to be concerned about uncollected taxes at all.

CMC fnord! 291

[septimus]

Originally Posted by RickJay

[ Black man stopped for walking in the cold with his hands in his pockets - ]
One waits in vain for the people who say there's no problem with the way black people are generally treated by the police to explain this one.

Race is irrelevant; that's not what citizens were reacting to. The video posted doesn't even show his race, but I can tell just from his accent that he probably looked brutish and had ape-like physiognomy. 292

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBucky

Old incident, new story.

“Drop his f***** ass, drop his ass!!” one officer can be heard saying on the dashcam right before six cops put 23 bullets into a man who was lying on the ground.





As usual, the victim was black and the cops got off scott free.

***
I'll take this opportunity to add something personal here. I have contributed to this thread several times now. Never in my life have I personally witnessed police misbehavior. The few times (as the reporter of minor complaints) that I have interacted directly with the police, I have found the individual cops to be professional, competent and polite. It may be that's because I'm white and usually polite myself.

That may be why I find these reports of apparent police misconduct so shocking. I want my law enforcement officers to be paragons of obedience to the law, not thugs.

Not a neutral cite, but shocking nonetheless if remotely true:

At a point after the officers stated that they saw a knife – each officer, in unison, slowly backed away from Wayne, who lay motionless on his stomach after being horrifically brutalized. As an Officer Neely backed away, he instantaneously fired his weapon into the head of Wayne Jones and the other (4) officers followed suit. Totaling twenty-three shots, every bullet went into Wayne Jones body from the (5) officers. The Police Report clearly stated that Wayne was 5’9 and weighed 130lbs yet (5) officers who probably weighed 900-1000lbs could not subdue one 130lb individual without filling him full of holes equivalent to Swiss Cheese.

In the reports – each officer made a scripted statement that included “knife”, “fear”, and “noncompliance” summarizing that they felt in fear of their lives; however – the video tells a much different story. In fact, in Officer Staub’s video at around 23:30 he specifically stated that “He wouldn’t fucking do nothing so we all shot him” Additionally, Staub was the officer that was purportedly stabbed by the “phantom-throwdown” knife that multiplied into two knives underneath Wayne’s body after he was killed. Four different officers made materially false statements about the existence, location and the fact that they altered the crime scene and moved the knives[sic] which were never found to have any fingerprints, dna or other forensic evidence that would conclude that Wayne, in fact, possessed a knife or stabbed an officer. No knife was ever produced.

A little 50 year old man who is lying on the sidewalk after being beaten and tazed is shot 23 times. The cops planted knives on him and try to alter the recordings. Where is the outrage over this? 293

[Shodan]

The lack of outrage may be due to the fact that objective sources - the grand jurors and federal judge - who examined the case found the allegations of your "cite" were not remotely true.

Regards,
Shodan 294

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by Shodan

The lack of outrage may be due to the fact that objective sources - the grand jurors and federal judge - who examined the case found the allegations of your "cite" were not remotely true.

Regards,
Shodan

Funny how the videos seems to suggest that they are, indeed, true. Even one of the cops was heard to say he was doing nothing and they shot him. 295

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

Funny how the videos seems to suggest that they are, indeed, true. Even one of the cops was heard to say he was doing nothing and they shot him.

Funny how the people actually qualified to make that decision completely disagree with you. 296

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by Steophan

Funny how the people actually qualified to make that decision completely disagree with you.

Perhaps the grand jury was misled by a system whereby the prosecutors are chummy with the cops and present half-assed cases when they pretend to make a case for indictment. 297

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

Perhaps the grand jury was misled by a system whereby the prosecutors are chummy with the cops and present half-assed cases when they pretend to make a case for indictment.

So your theory is that there was, quite literally, a conspiracy. A conspiracy that involved 12 members of the public. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

No, that didn't happen. What happened is that, like in many other cases, there's little or no evidence the police actually did something wrong - the determination of "wrong" being made by the people's elected representatives and codified into law, rather than by ignorant fools on message boards, of course. 298

[BobLibDem]

Originally Posted by Steophan

So your theory is that there was, quite literally, a conspiracy. A conspiracy that involved 12 members of the public. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

No, that didn't happen. What happened is that, like in many other cases, there's little or no evidence the police actually did something wrong - the determination of "wrong" being made by the people's elected representatives and codified into law, rather than by ignorant fools on message boards, of course.

The grand jurors themselves were just pawns being played by a prosecutor who just went through the motions in presenting his case. A conspiracy of one.

I'd say shooting a guy who has been tazed and beaten and lying on the ground to be something wrong. Shooting him 23 times is obscenely wrong. Then planting evidence on his body and doctoring the videos is just icing on the cake. 299

[Shodan]

That federal judge who dismissed the case, saying

In sum, viewing all of the circumstances, the court finds that a reasonable officer in each of the officers' shoes would have concluded that Jones posed an immediate threat of serious physical harm to all of the officers. The officers' use of deadly force therefore was justified and reasonable.

Just a pawn, right? Or part of a deeper conspiracy?

Regards,
Shodan 300