Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-31-2016, 09:59 PM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656

Anti-vaxxers are ignorant scumbags that kill children


Recently had an episode of this pop up on a friends Facebook, he was sensibly calling them idiots and some genuine anti-vaxxers popped up and tried and peddle their bullshit. Holy crap, the level of willfull ignorance and lack of understanding of basic science shocked me. No shit stain, this is not something you get to have an opinion on, first because you are endangering the health and life of your own child, second because you are also endangering the lives of other people around you.

One of these morons blithely claimed "herd immunity isn't a thing you know?" When I explained what that actually is and asked her to provide a cite of course she had no answer and just ran away. Before she did, she did however post a link to slimy conman Andrew Wakefields "Vaxxed" documentary and tell me to "educate myself". No thanks, why should I waste my time watching something from a Doctor that can no longer practise because he faked evidence?

So then the prince of turds showed up, a 911 truther idiot who has written a 1000 page "book" eg a free PDF which he claims is 1000 cites from peer reviewed papers on the dangers of vaccines. I wasted about two hours of my life looking through his PDF, basically he has just googled for any paper that mentions harmful effects of Mercury or Aluminium, copy pasted the Abstract and then included a scary sounding quote. Not one shred of an attempt to discern if the papers in question are actually relevant to the quantity or even the same compound as what is actually used in vaccines. Eg he including many papers on the toxicity of elemental mercury in vapor form. Hello dickhead, that has zero relevance to the toxicity of a Mercury compound. Perhaps you've heard of sodium and chlorine, they're pretty deadly to us, yet we need NaCl to survive. If you don't understand this level of high school chemistry then your opinion is worthless, yet anti vaxxers were genuinely quoting this guy and his "1000 peer reviewed papers" as a source in their arguments !

These entitled idiots are free to spread their baseless arguments while they sip mochacinos in Bondi only because the success of vaccines has provided their children herd immunity and almost entirely eliminated most deadly diseases in rich countries like Australia. Vaccines save the lives of 2-3 million children a year in developing countries from Diphtheria, MMR, Cholera and other preventable diseases (WHO statistics). If you're against vaccines you are for the death of 2-3 million children a year, that's actually more than Pol Pot achieved in one year, well done !

So here's the thing, if you don't want to vaccinate your children, you absolutely do not get to freeload off the herd immunity of the rest of us. You're a parasite and you should take full and absolute responsibility for those actions. In my opinion, children who are not vaccinated should not be able to attend public government subsidized schools, or travel on public transport. In countries with universal health care, they shouldn't be covered. So either home school your child or send them to a private full fee paying school especially for non-vaccinated children, it would be fun to see how that turns out except of course it's the children that would suffer,

If your child ends up dying from a preventable disease because you didn't vax, then you should be charged with manslaughter, and if your child ends up crippled from a preventable disease you should be charged with child abuse and your child taken away.

The same turd flavoured cumsack that wrote the 1000 page bullshit tract also believes that we never landed on the moon, that the government is covering up anti-gravity, free energy and contact with extra-terrestrials and a long list of other wacko conspiracies. You know I don't give a rat's ass about you peddling all that other stuff, it's harmless and only makes you look like an idiot. But spreading anti-vax lies is actually dangerous, it kills people both directly if someone is convinced by your bullshit to not vax, and indirectly by lowering herd immunity. There is no excuse and you are scum.

Last edited by coremelt; 08-31-2016 at 10:03 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-31-2016, 10:39 PM
samclem is offline
Graphite is a great
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 26,202
Quote:
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L.Mencken
  #3  
Old 08-31-2016, 10:56 PM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 15,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by coremelt View Post
believes that we never landed on the moon, that the government is covering up anti-gravity, free energy
Because if you have anti-gravity and free energy it wouldn't make sense to go to the moon for real?

If we had anti-gravity and free energy Moon resort vacations would be a thing. Hell, surfing vacations on Titan would be a thing.

I'm not even acknowledging the stupidity of the anti-vax stuff. If only there were a way to slap some real science into these people.
  #4  
Old 08-31-2016, 11:11 PM
Emtar KronJonDerSohn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,422
You cannot reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into, but Bill Nye stands up and tries. Give it time.
  #5  
Old 08-31-2016, 11:45 PM
Guinastasia's Avatar
Guinastasia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 52,995
I hate anti-vaxxers so fucking much. I wish it were possible to infect every single one of these bastards with tetanus and leave them untreated.
  #6  
Old 09-01-2016, 12:06 AM
SeaDragonTattoo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago, Far Northsider
Posts: 7,813
I enjoyed this rant and would like to subscribe to your rant-letter.
  #7  
Old 09-01-2016, 12:35 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtar KronJonDerSohn View Post
Give it time.
Unfortunately the problem is getting worse not better. The generation that remembers children crippled for life by polio is definitely not anti-vax. And the deliberate lies by climate change deniers undermine trust in all scientists. For fucks sake we've even got cheeto face baboon Trump giving credibility to the anti-vax bullshit.

The trend of "we're sick of experts" peddled by Brexiters and Trump supporters directly contributes to this cancerous belief.
  #8  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:43 AM
Skywatcher's Avatar
Skywatcher is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Potomac
Posts: 35,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by coremelt View Post
The same turd flavoured cumsack that wrote the 1000 page bullshit tract also believes that we never landed on the moon, that the government is covering up anti-gravity, free energy and contact with extra-terrestrials and a long list of other wacko conspiracies.
Sounds like a nut who used to post on the IMDb boards.
  #9  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:52 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Sounds like a nut who used to post on the IMDb boards.
I'm not going to link the guy, but if you really want to see the sort of irrational tripe that is held up as a credible source in the anti-vax movement google "vaccination 1000 peer history". This guy even has the gall to talk down to you claiming he has read all 1000 papers in full and that he can't argue the topic with you unless you have similarly read his irrelevant bullshit. Anyone with the most basic science education can just skim his chapter headings and see that it's the same tired bullshit that's been endlessly debunked. He also tried to claim that the average price of a vaccine dose is $300, when I posted UNICEF and WHO's pricing showing most vaccines cost under $1 per dose he just ran away and stopped replying. I have to believe that this guy actually knows he's peddling bullshit but he seems to make a living off this stuff.

Last edited by coremelt; 09-01-2016 at 02:56 AM.
  #10  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:58 AM
Sitnam is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,136
This is nothing a severe Polio outbreak couldn't cure, and the scary thing is I think that will be the case.
  #11  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:02 AM
Sitnam is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
I hate anti-vaxxers so fucking much. I wish it were possible to infect every single one of these bastards with tetanus and leave them untreated.
"Well that escalated quickly."
  #12  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:09 AM
Balance is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitnam View Post
"Well that escalated quickly."
If by that you mean that it proceeded expeditiously to its logical conclusion. After all, they're the ones who claim that exposure makes them stronger.
  #13  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:51 AM
lilihob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 120
My husband had polio as a child. He now, at 58, goes incandescent with rage at anti vaxxers.
It may be history to them, but calipers were his childhood.
Our daughters had all the immunizations, no debate.
So, what those Wakefield morons are saying is, better a real risk of death than a non existent risk of autism.
It will need a real epidemic to stop these selfish taints, and sadly, there will be one.
  #14  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:54 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitnam View Post
"Well that escalated quickly."
I like my idea better. No government funded schooling, no travelling on public transport no universal healthcare (in countries that have it). Even better lets make it the law that unvaccinated people (unless for genuine medical reasons) have to wear facemasks all the time when they're in public and a biohazard symbol so sensible people can avoid them.

Yeah I realise that makes me sound like a Nazi. In this case it's justified, and they could get rid of the "discrimination" any time they wanted by getting vaccinated.
  #15  
Old 09-01-2016, 08:24 AM
Jackmannii's Avatar
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 32,483
There is an antivax flying monkey named Cia Parker who is well known for descending on comments sections of vaccine-related articles, books and so on. Yesterday she posted this gem on Skeptical Raptor:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cia Parker
My uncle fell asleep in the sun and woke up with schizophrenia. Heat pulls stored vaccine mercury from the bones and looses it to cause symptoms.
That one's hard to top.

Oh, and pretty good rant, OP. Except that I don't think cholera vaccine is in very wide use anywhere yet (it has had some success in combating outbreaks, and the FDA recently approved a vaccine for adults visiting cholera-prone areas).
  #16  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:28 AM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by coremelt View Post
I like my idea better. No government funded schooling, no travelling on public transport no universal healthcare (in countries that have it). Even better lets make it the law that unvaccinated people (unless for genuine medical reasons) have to wear facemasks all the time when they're in public and a biohazard symbol so sensible people can avoid them.

Yeah I realise that makes me sound like a Nazi. In this case it's justified, and they could get rid of the "discrimination" any time they wanted by getting vaccinated.
If you're going to go Nazi, go full Nazi - the unvaccinated live and work in a separate area. Maybe we let them mask up and travel into vaccinated areas, not sure on that. No piggy-backing on non-existent herd immunity for you and your kids.
  #17  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:30 AM
TheStake is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 206
I do not know how I would top that one! It is crazy people believe in that crap!
  #18  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:44 AM
Amateur Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by coremelt View Post
I like my idea better. No government funded schooling, no travelling on public transport no universal healthcare (in countries that have it). Even better lets make it the law that unvaccinated people (unless for genuine medical reasons) have to wear facemasks all the time when they're in public and a biohazard symbol so sensible people can avoid them.
And ring a bell while regularly shouting out, "Unclean!" Don't forget that.
  #19  
Old 09-01-2016, 10:02 AM
Edward The Head is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 6,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitnam View Post
This is nothing a severe Polio outbreak couldn't cure, and the scary thing is I think that will be the case.
Doubt that, the whooping cough outbreak in California caught a lot of anti-vaxxers and they still don't believe. My cousin's kid got whooping cough and STILL will not vaccinate. Out of all the Facebook crap I see her's is some of the worst.
  #20  
Old 09-01-2016, 10:06 AM
Amateur Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,905
They're all a bit like idiots who want to slash military spending to nothing because they've never seen a foreign soldier in their hometown.
  #21  
Old 09-01-2016, 10:37 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Quote:
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L.Mencken

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie Dell
A man can kill from sunup to sunset, and still his work is never done.
There are too many of them.
  #22  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:13 PM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
If you're going to go Nazi, go full Nazi - the unvaccinated live and work in a separate area. Maybe we let them mask up and travel into vaccinated areas, not sure on that. No piggy-backing on non-existent herd immunity for you and your kids.
I do like the general direction of your thinking, but the thing is if we segregate them to unvaccinated ghetto's then they will never be challenged or shamed by those around them. I want them to live in the general public, but have to send their children to special private schools and to have to wear the facemask and biohazard symbol when in public. This will ensure they are actually publicly shamed every time they go outside, which is what I want.

And yeah the H L Mencken quote is good but I gotta say after reading about him that he was a bit of a racist cunt.
  #23  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:57 PM
Voyager's Avatar
Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 46,779
The good thing about the outbreak in Disneyland is that in California you can only use medical reasons to not get your kid vaccinated. Court challenges by the morons have gotten nowhere.
My wife is working on a book on Vaccines, which will have a chapter on the controversy - which will give lots of facts to use. I'll post a link when it gets published - she gets royalties.
  #24  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:37 PM
kayaker's Avatar
kayaker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rural Western PA
Posts: 33,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
I hate anti-vaxxers so fucking much. I wish it were possible to infect every single one of these bastards with tetanus and leave them untreated.
No argument from me. Other than the pedantic need to point out that the actual infection would be with Clostridium tetani, the bacterium that produces the toxin that causes tetanus.
  #25  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:47 PM
Baker is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Tottering-on-the-Brink
Posts: 20,516
I wish my maternal great-grandmother could meet some of these anti-vaxxers and slap the shit out of them. She bore six children, and if she'd done it when there were vaccines it's likely all six would have lived much longer lives.

Instead, one died the day after birth. She'd had measles while pregnant and while the baby appeared healthy when born, he upped and died the next day. Luckily his twin, while a tiny, sickly looking thing, grew up healthy to be my great-uncle George. Another brother died of diptheria when he was three, and a third son died at eighteen of the flu. A sister died in her thirties of something preventable, I can't remember for sure. So only George, and my maternal grandmother Esther lived long enough to see grandchildren.
  #26  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:57 PM
Quartz's Avatar
Quartz is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Where haggis roam free
Posts: 31,112
Would Wakefield have been caught if the anti-vaxxers had not been so vociferous?
  #27  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:21 PM
Guinastasia's Avatar
Guinastasia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 52,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post
I wish my maternal great-grandmother could meet some of these anti-vaxxers and slap the shit out of them. She bore six children, and if she'd done it when there were vaccines it's likely all six would have lived much longer lives.

Instead, one died the day after birth. She'd had measles while pregnant and while the baby appeared healthy when born, he upped and died the next day. Luckily his twin, while a tiny, sickly looking thing, grew up healthy to be my great-uncle George. Another brother died of diptheria when he was three, and a third son died at eighteen of the flu. A sister died in her thirties of something preventable, I can't remember for sure. So only George, and my maternal grandmother Esther lived long enough to see grandchildren.

Similiar to my great-grandmother. One of her sons died when he was three of whooping cough, another of tetanus when he was seven after stepping on a rusty nail. Disgusting, isn't it?
  #28  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:25 PM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by some moonbat
My uncle fell asleep in the sun and woke up with schizophrenia
I hate it when that happens.
  #29  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:31 PM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
But I don't.
  #30  
Old 09-01-2016, 06:41 PM
Guinastasia's Avatar
Guinastasia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 52,995
BTW, I know I mention this in every anti-vax thread. But this is just one of the things that pisses me off so bad -- my great-grandmother didn't have the option to have her kids vaccinated. Can you imagine how she would've reacted to these motherfuckers? Go to a cemetary some time and look at some of the older graves. Probably a good number of them are children. Nowadays, we think of a high child mortality rate as something that happens in other countries -- "oh, now we have better medicine and sanitation, that's only in poor countries!" But it used to be that way right here, in our own country as well. And you know why it stopped? VACCINES!!!
(My grandmother was probably only five years old when her brother died from tetanus. I'm not sure about her other brother)
  #31  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:06 PM
Dendarii Dame is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 15,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
BTW, Go to a cemetary some time and look at some of the older graves. Probably a good number of them are children.
I once saw a little girl with her mom in a cemetery. The litttle girl pointed to a grave. "Mommy, look. That grave is wrong. You said they tell when the person was born and when they died, but that says 1900-1905, so that can't be right."

Her mother bent down and whispered to her. Little girl: "WHAT?!"
  #32  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:14 PM
RivkahChaya's Avatar
RivkahChaya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilihob View Post
My husband had polio as a child. He now, at 58, goes incandescent with rage at anti vaxxers.
It may be history to them, but calipers were his childhood.
Our daughters had all the immunizations, no debate.
So, what those Wakefield morons are saying is, better a real risk of death than a non existent risk of autism.
It will need a real epidemic to stop these selfish taints, and sadly, there will be one.
I have an aunt I never met because she died when she was three. She had either the mumps or Hib, both now vaccine preventable.

My mother lived, but she suffered through both measles and mumps. She also had a second trimester miscarriage after having the flu when she was pregnant, back when pregnant women weren't given flu shots (neither were children).

I used to think that vaccines could, very rarely, in vulnerable people, cause a form of regressive retardation with seizures, because I have worked with people who carried a "vaccine-injured" diagnosis (from the DTP shot-- in fact, it's the reason it was changed to DTaP), and one even got an award from the vaccine injury fund. But I learned later that a gene was located for something called Dravet syndrome around 2000, and close to 100% of people with a vaccine-injured diagnosis who were tested for Dravet syndrome were positive for it. Now, it's true that febrile seizures from a vaccine may have actually triggered the first seizure in many Dravet patients, but because these people had Dravet, something would have triggered that first seizure. I do not know for sure, but I strongly suspect now that the people I worked with had Dravet syndrome.

Anyway, even when I thought the DTP shot presented a slim chance of a serious problem, I was never an anti-vaxxer, because cripes, D or P or T all alone could do way more damage than the potential damage of the vaccine. Some people are very bad at risk assessment. Heck, even the parents of one of the people I worked with still vaccinated their other child, they just took special precautions. His DTP shot was delayed a few months, and he got a dose of Tylenol 1 hr. before, and then was kept at the doctor's office for an hour afterwards. Probably all totally unnecessary, but care done with the best knowledge at the time.
  #33  
Old 09-01-2016, 11:18 PM
Vicsage is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 388
I'll be attacked, but that's OK. I believe in getting all the needed vaccines, but I don't believe its healthy to get them all in a brief period of time. I think they should be spaces out more. I hear the reason they don't do this is not because they are trying to protect the child as quickly as possible, but they think parents are more likely to get them all if its only a few trips to the doctor. Don't think the human immune system evolved to produce 5 different antibodies in 1 day.
  #34  
Old 09-01-2016, 11:22 PM
Trinopus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 22,861
Vicsage: What you're suggesting isn't screamingly irrational. It may be correct. It's something that can be tested scientifically.

At present, is there any useful evidence that getting a bunch of immunizations in one day is counter-productive? Are you only speculating, or has this been studied?
  #35  
Old 09-01-2016, 11:42 PM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Oh, and pretty good rant, OP. Except that I don't think cholera vaccine is in very wide use anywhere yet (it has had some success in combating outbreaks, and the FDA recently approved a vaccine for adults visiting cholera-prone areas).
You are entirely correct, I should have said Tetanus instead of Cholera: Tetanus is a big killer in developing countries and easily vaccinated against. The cholera vaccine has been available for many decades (maybe just not approved in the US). I had it about 20 years ago when I was travelling for an extended period in remote areas of Indonesia, Thailand and Cambodia. It only lasts six months so yes it's usually only given to people where an outbreak happens or to travellers who ask for it.

Vicsage I don't anyone will attack you for saying that, its a reasonable question to ask if combined vaccinations are the best way. But it's not some devious plot by big pharma, rather a matter of best use of limited resources. Combined vaccines save money and take less health resources to deliver. Cheaper vaccines are a good thing, since it means more people in developing countries ( and poorer people in rich countries) can afford them. Coming back for each individual shot will cost you more money, because you're taking more of a nurses time delivering them all individually and paying more to buy separate doses. Unless there is good evidence that combined vaccines are dangerous in some way it would be foolish to legislate that they all be given separately, and it would directly lead to more people dying in developing countries since the costs would go up of delivering them.

But if you want to space out vaccines for your own child and pay the extra, go right ahead.

Last edited by coremelt; 09-01-2016 at 11:44 PM.
  #36  
Old 09-01-2016, 11:45 PM
Vicsage is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 388
Being called "not screamingly irrational" is one of the nicest things I've been called. Just speculation, although I had a dog once get some sort of auto-immune disease shortly after being given a large # of vaccines. Dog recovered, but the Vet suggested spacing them the next time and not giving him ones that were he was unlikely to need. Until you know for sure a little caution with no risk isn't always a bad idea.
  #37  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:05 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
Until you know for sure a little caution with no risk isn't always a bad idea.
Doctor's / Immunologists who work out suggested vaccine courses for large scale health programs have to make risk / reward choices, and they don't have unlimited resources and no vaccine is 100 percent reliable or 100 percent guaranteed to be free of side effects. Made up example: If the combined doses cause a 1 in 10,000 increase of cases of an auto immune disorder but cost 3 times less, they are justified in recommending the combined doses. Far more harm would be done by recommending the individual doses since less people would be covered with the same budget.

Last edited by coremelt; 09-02-2016 at 12:05 AM.
  #38  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:13 AM
Vicsage is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 388
I understand the economics and the numbers, but as you said earlier, I'm willing to spend the extra money and time to be cautious. And I have been severely criticized in the past for mot toeing the timeline that they want you to do. And I don't know if there are any studies about safety issues of cramming lots of vaccines in a short period of time, but if there aren't, there should be.
  #39  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:19 AM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
The "I'm not anti-vax, I just think it's too much at one time" thing is a position that started to come out after it started to become clear - post-Wakefield takedown - that the basic anti-vax position was BS. These things are like fashions. A few years ago it was "MMR causes autism". Now its "I'm not against vaccines as such but..."

There's no more evidence for the sub-trends that have split off from the "MMR causes autism" trend than for the "MMR causes autism" trend itself. It's just that the people who were fully anti-vax are beating a face saving retreat. If it's not "they are too much at once" it's "they are administered too young" or some other thing.
  #40  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:19 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
. And I don't know if there are any studies about safety issues of cramming lots of vaccines in a short period of time, but if there aren't, there should be.
There are many many papers about combined vaccines. According to this in order to be approved for usage "New combinations cannot be less immunogenic, less efficacious, or more reactogenic than the previously licensed uncombined vaccines." So yes they study the safety in depth before combination vaccines are approved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068581/
  #41  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:22 AM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
And I don't know if there are any studies about safety issues of cramming lots of vaccines in a short period of time, but if there aren't, there should be.
Why don't you know? Do you have an internet connection by any chance?

You're more interesting in whining about the draft than in shutting the window, aren't you?
  #42  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:27 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
I'll be attacked, but that's OK. I believe in getting all the needed vaccines, but I don't believe its healthy to get them all in a brief period of time. I think they should be spaces out more. I hear the reason they don't do this is not because they are trying to protect the child as quickly as possible, but they think parents are more likely to get them all if its only a few trips to the doctor. Don't think the human immune system evolved to produce 5 different antibodies in 1 day.
Uh, evolution has done that and more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6607026.html
Quote:
Bad argument #5: Vaccines can “overload” a child’s immune system. That’s simply not true. From the moment babies are born, they’re exposed to all sorts of illness-causing viruses. So most doctors — and even the CDC and the Institute of Medicine — agree that a child’s immune system can handle the immune-stimulating antigens in multiple vaccines. In fact, as San Francisco-based pediatrician Dr. Laurel Schultz wrote in a recent article, children are exposed to more antigens in the environment every day than to those in all of their vaccinations combined.
  #43  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:35 AM
Vicsage is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 388
There you go. I get my kids vaccinated. It takes 2 years longer. Not good enough. Your way or the highway. Got to toe the line.
  #44  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:37 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
There you go. I get my kids vaccinated. It takes 2 years longer. Not good enough. Your way or the highway. Got to toe the line.
I did not mention anything about your choice, but thank you for showing all that you are proud of not being willing to learn anything that can shake your faith.
  #45  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:38 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
There you go. I get my kids vaccinated. It takes 2 years longer. Not good enough. Your way or the highway. Got to toe the line.
There's no problem with what you're doing in my opinion, but do you have any evidence that you are getting any benefit from paying the extra and doing it this way? I'd be genuinely interested in reading papers showing more side effects from combined vaccines if you have any.
  #46  
Old 09-02-2016, 12:39 AM
ENugent is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 3,854
Do you quarantine them for two years?
  #47  
Old 09-02-2016, 01:01 AM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicsage View Post
There you go. I get my kids vaccinated. It takes 2 years longer. Not good enough. Your way or the highway. Got to toe the line.
Oh I see, you're Fighting the Man. How noble. You exposed your own children to risk of serious disease, you exposed the children who had contact with your children to risk of serious disease, and you achieved nothing of practical value.

But you sure showed those assholes who recommended to you a good and effective way to protect your family and friends! You made it clear who's boss!

What a fuckin' hero.
  #48  
Old 09-02-2016, 01:01 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENugent View Post
Do you quarantine them for two years?
Let's not be facetious, in western developed countries the incidence of deadly diseases is pretty low. Statistically it's very likely herd immunity will protect them over the two year period. Just as long as they do eventually get vaccinated it seems harmless to me. A waste of time and money, but harmless.
  #49  
Old 09-02-2016, 01:13 AM
Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 14,259
Yeah, let's all do that. Oh, wait. Then it won't work.

OK, let's just give Special Snowflakes a pass. The rest of us will do the heavy lifting while they show what admirable rebels they are by not toeing the line.
  #50  
Old 09-02-2016, 01:34 AM
coremelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princhester View Post
Yeah, let's all do that. Oh, wait. Then it won't work.
You're really grasping at straws here. If everybody spread out infant immunisations over a longer period it would still work, because they'd still get herd immunity from the rest of the population over 2 years old which is 98% of people. And anyway they're not giving them no vaccinations for two years, they can give the most at risk ones first, then others every 2 months or every month. It would cost more money, and there's no evidence that it has any benefit, and it might lead to small increase in some diseases but not a huge epidemic.

There's plenty of genuine reasons to fight anti-vaxxers but personally I'm willing to let this one slide. Pick your battles.

Last edited by coremelt; 09-02-2016 at 01:35 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017