Straight Dope Message Board

[running coach]

Originally Posted by Channing Idaho Banks

That's the problem with crying wolf!

Help! Help! Rabid wolf! 201

[dasmoocher]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

I understand Trump is worse but we have buried the fucking needle on demonizing the Republican candidates. What could we say about Trump that we haven't already said about McCain and Romney?

Do you doubt for a second that we would have seen wailing and gnashing of teeth on this board if Romney won in 2012? The partisans on this board have cried wolf so often that its just par for the course.

Really? I would say McCain is a patriot and so is Romney to a lesser extent. Trump? He's out to line his pockets and Putin probably has him by the balls. 202

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

Really? I would say McCain is a patriot and so is Romney to a lesser extent. Trump? He's out to line his pockets and Putin probably has him by the balls.

I would also call McCain a patriot. If he had been running against Gore in 2000, I would have voted for him. If he had been running against Hillary in 2016, I would have voted for him.

Even as I was voting against him in 2008, I respected the fact that he was trying to push back against the folks who were calling Obama a secret muslim, but a lot of people on this board was having none of it. McCain somehow became a sexual predator and loose cannon.

Same thing with Romney. We almost ran out of names to call him. We practically blamed him for the financial crisis and frankly, we engaged in more than a little bit of anti-Mormon bigotry.

Perhaps Trump is out to line his own pockets but I think it is more likely that running for President was a vanity project and he was as surprised as anyone that he won. This is not part of some grand master plan to fleece the country. He gained credibility within the Republican party by being a racist misogynistic xenophobe but that is a Republican problem, not a Trump problem, he just does it better than most Republicans because he just says what they are implying.

But, how in the world does Putin have him by the balls? Is there some imagined secret that Trump would be too embarrassed to have revealed? The man has no shame, wtf could you possibly hold over his head? 203

[dasmoocher]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

But, how in the world does Putin have him by the balls? Is there some imagined secret that Trump would be too embarrassed to have revealed? The man has no shame, wtf could you possibly hold over his head?

I imagine he's into hock to some Russian lenders. Are American banks even willing to lend to him? 204

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

I imagine he's into hock to some Russian lenders. Are American banks even willing to lend to him?

Yes but You're in a bubble, man. Got to get out from that bubble. It's so easy once you let go and enjoy it. 205

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

I would also call McCain a patriot. If he had been running against Gore in 2000, I would have voted for him. If he had been running against Hillary in 2016, I would have voted for him.

Even as I was voting against him in 2008, I respected the fact that he was trying to push back against the folks who were calling Obama a secret muslim, but a lot of people on this board was having none of it. McCain somehow became a sexual predator and loose cannon.

Same thing with Romney. We almost ran out of names to call him. We practically blamed him for the financial crisis and frankly, we engaged in more than a little bit of anti-Mormon bigotry.

I'm not quite sure about Romney but I don't remember any of that about McCain on this board. The only thing he got a lot of flak for here was his choice of running mate. You'd probably agree he didn't get as much flak as Palin did, and Palin and Trump got about the same amount, so therefore McCain did not get as much. 206

[Ravenman]

Originally Posted by Channing Idaho Banks

That's the problem with crying wolf!

Are you going to tell us with a straight face that Republicans did not cry wolf about our current President? 207

[elucidator]

Message board, can't see faces, straight or otherwise. Count your blessings. 208

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by Ravenman

Are you going to tell us with a straight face that Republicans did not cry wolf about our current President?

And now the Burger-master is the Wolf. The Republicans are now busy claiming that him appointing the fox to guard the hen house, the bull to the china shop, the vulture to organize the city and having the weasel and the magpie as advisors is peachy keen. 209

[dasmoocher]

Originally Posted by drad dog

Yes but You're in a bubble, man. Got to get out from that bubble. It's so easy once you let go and enjoy it.

What is it with psychological projection in regards to Trump and his supporters? The people who voted for him are probably going to get the most fucked over from his administration. He's not in it for the little guy. 210

[Mind's Eye, Watering]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

What is it with psychological projection in regards to Trump and his supporters? The people who voted for him are probably going to get the most fucked over from his administration. He's not in it for the little guy.

His supporters are America's worst Americans, and profoundly stupid. 211

[Rick Kitchen]

Trump wants to name Sylvester Stallone as chair of the National Endowment for the Arts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arts-role.html

I guess it's better than the typical Republican goal of defunding the arts altogether. 212

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

What is it with psychological projection in regards to Trump and his supporters? The people who voted for him are probably going to get the most fucked over from his administration. He's not in it for the little guy.

I just started reading David Cay Johnstons "the making of donald trump" So far very enlightening and a quick read. I'll be back with stuff, but I have every faith that any argument is a straw in the wind compared with what amounts basically to russian trolling schemes. 213

[dasmoocher]

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen

Trump wants to name Sylvester Stallone as chair of the National Endowment for the Arts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arts-role.html

I guess it's better than the typical Republican goal of defunding the arts altogether.

I heard Putin is unhappy. He wanted Ivan Drago. 214

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

I imagine he's into hock to some Russian lenders. Are American banks even willing to lend to him?

No they are not. 215

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

What is it with psychological projection in regards to Trump and his supporters?

http://usuncut.com/wp-content/upload.../heiltrump.png 216

[jshore]

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Trump's pick for Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, who has said that left-wing Jews, like myself, are worse than Jews who worked with the Nazis:

Finally, are J Street supporters really as bad as kapos? The answer, actually, is no. They are far worse than kapos – Jews who turned in their fellow Jews in the Nazi death camps. The kapos faced extraordinary cruelty and who knows what any of us would have done under those circumstances to save a loved one? But J Street? They are just smug advocates of Israel’s destruction delivered from the comfort of their secure American sofas – it’s hard to imagine anyone worse.

(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...cle.aspx/18828)

Now that's a unifying figure if ever there was one! 217

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by jshore

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Trump's pick for Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, who has said that left-wing Jews, like myself, are worse than Jews who worked with the Nazis:


(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...cle.aspx/18828)

Now that's a unifying figure if ever there was one!

I mentioned it here (Trump's Cabinet of Curiosities):

Quote:
WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump on Thursday named David M. Friedman, a bankruptcy lawyer aligned with the Israeli far right, as his nominee for ambassador to Israel, elevating a campaign adviser who has questioned the need for a two-state solution and has likened left-leaning Jews in America to the Jews who aided the Nazis in the Holocaust.

Mr. Friedman, whose outspoken views stand in stark contrast to decades of American policy toward Israel, did not wait long on Thursday to signal his intention to upend the American approach. In a statement from the Trump transition team announcing his nomination, he said he looked forward to doing the job “from the U.S. embassy in Israel’s eternal capital, Jerusalem.”

... <snip> ...

Mr. Friedman, who has no diplomatic experience, has said that he does not believe it would be illegal for Israel to annex the occupied West Bank and he supports building new settlements there, which Washington has long condemned as illegitimate and an obstacle to peace.

Cite

218

[jshore]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

I mentioned it here (Trump's Cabinet of Curiosities):

It's hard to keep track...So many threads, so little time!

Just sayin... 219

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by Bridget Burke

You'd think our local Republicans would be full of joyous anticipation of the future that awaits. They should be regaling us with tales of The Greatness of The Donald & The Wisdom shown by his Cabinet Choices. Let's hear more about Rick Perry & Ben Carson!

Instead, they keep telling us that Hillary was "flawed." The more we learn about Trump, the better she looks. Well, more Americans did prefer her...

Seems to be "a thing" now. Since the fat orange puke has no good qualities (other than the ability to lie and screw people over and steal their money) all we hear is "derp hitlery bad". They simply have nothing to point to. 220

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by jshore

It's hard to keep track...So many threads, so little time!

Just sayin...

No kidding. I didn't mean my post to sound reproachful. Sorry if it did. 221

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I'm not quite sure about Romney but I don't remember any of that about McCain on this board. The only thing he got a lot of flak for here was his choice of running mate. You'd probably agree he didn't get as much flak as Palin did, and Palin and Trump got about the same amount, so therefore McCain did not get as much.

At that time, there were some of us who would have been fine with McCain - and said so. The only fly in the ointment was Palin. She received a lot of ridicule (and deserved it). 222

[Fiveyearlurker]

Trump accused China of "unpresidented" behavior. Apparently his people have been explaining the concept of impeachment to him using the term. 223

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

Trump accused China of "unpresidented" behavior. Apparently his people have been explaining the concept of impeachment to him using the term.

We can only hope that this is the same kind of projection he uses for everything else he says. 224

[jshore]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

No kidding. I didn't mean my post to sound reproachful. Sorry if it did.

No problem! 225

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

Trump accused China of "unpresidented" behavior. Apparently his people have been explaining the concept of impeachment to him using the term.

I just read where it took his staff 87 minutes to notice that and correct it. 226

[Defensive Indifference]

So China picked up an unmanned underwater vehicle that the US Navy was operating near Chinese water. Things have been a little tense. This is the kind of delicate international incident requiring careful discussion.

Or, another option is a tweet. Like the one Trump sent:

Originally Posted by Twit of the US

We should tell China that we don’t want the drone they stole back.- let them keep it!

Now, that's diplomacy! 227

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by SteveG1

Seems to be "a thing" now. Since the fat orange puke has no good qualities (other than the ability to lie and screw people over and steal their money) all we hear is "derp hitlery bad". They simply have nothing to point to.

I voted for Hillary, but I don't recall ever pointing to anything good about her; I could easily name a number of things I disliked about her positions or her campaign -- one of which almost made me throw up in my mouth -- but the only selling point I ever really had in mind, when talking her up to others or myself, was derp trump bad. 228

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by dasmoocher

I imagine he's into hock to some Russian lenders. Are American banks even willing to lend to him?

Trump is not afraid of his creditors, his creditors are afraid of him. And now that he's president, if he is anything near the despot in making that some people think he is, then his creditors have no fucking hold over him at all.

The banks that lend money to Trump's real estate deals do not lend money on faith. Real estate loans are usually secured and based on a pretty solid business plan. I doubt Trump has trouble raising money for a good project and like it or not, Trump's name on a project adds value. His name represents the lion's share of his wealth. 229

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I'm not quite sure about Romney but I don't remember any of that about McCain on this board. The only thing he got a lot of flak for here was his choice of running mate. You'd probably agree he didn't get as much flak as Palin did, and Palin and Trump got about the same amount, so therefore McCain did not get as much.

I agree that Palin got more flak than McCain but only because most of the liberals on this board aren't partisan idiots but enough are.

I also agree he didn't get as much flak as Trump, in fact he got much less notice generally than Obama and Hillary that year. 230

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by SteveG1

No they are not.

cite? 231

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

Trump is not afraid of his creditors, his creditors are afraid of him. And now that he's president, if he is anything near the despot in making that some people think he is, then his creditors have no fucking hold over him at all.

The banks that lend money to Trump's real estate deals do not lend money on faith. Real estate loans are usually secured and based on a pretty solid business plan. I doubt Trump has trouble raising money for a good project and like it or not, Trump's name on a project adds value. His name represents the lion's share of his wealth.

If his name is his wealth then I have real doubts about his liquidity.

You don't know what his debt is, who it's to, how many times he's been sued, what his tax returns look like, where any of those suits are in progress, what the value of his name is, or what his motives are in what he says and how they are affected by this, how easy or difficult it is for him to borrow money from various sources, how wealthy he is... or anything really.

What you do know you ignore.

Given that, are you fighting ignorance or just being a donald mythifier, and apologist?

It's really curious tone for someone who voted against him. 232

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by drad dog

...
Given that, are you fighting ignorance or just being a donald mythifier, and apologist?
....

Hmmm... I guess you do know the correct usage of this word. I apologize for my note in another thread and silently slink away... 233

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

cite?

It’s already been well documented that American banks are no longer willing (source: Wall Street Journal) to loan money to Donald Trump due to his pattern of strategically not paying his bills or repaying his debts when he thinks he can get away with it. And yet he’s managed to nearly double his debt load (source: Bloomberg) over the past year by borrowing a flurry of funds from overseas investors. 234

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

I agree that Palin got more flak than McCain but only because most of the liberals on this board aren't partisan idiots but enough are.

I also agree he didn't get as much flak as Trump, in fact he got much less notice generally than Obama and Hillary that year.

McCain chose Palin. He is one fly hair above a trump voter. He deserved a lot of flak for that. 235

[Buck Godot]

If I remember correctly, pre-Palin, McCaine was mainly criticized on the board for walking back from his Maverick straight talk status and embracing the standard Republican Clap Trap. This was of course before the Party went off the deep end, back when we thought that GW Bush was the worst they had to offer. 236

[Mind's Eye, Watering]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

If I remember correctly, pre-Palin, McCaine was mainly criticized on the board for walking back from his Maverick straight talk status and embracing the standard Republican Clap Trap. This was of course before the Party went off the deep end, back when we thought that GW Bush was the worst they had to offer.

Man, those were great days, huh? When we though Bush was the bottom of the barrel? 237

[elucidator]

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."
- Bob Seegar 238

[running coach]

Originally Posted by elucidator

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."
- Bob Seegar

Or Toby Keith. 239

[elucidator]

"Against the Wind" came out in 1980. When whoever the hell Toby Keith is was 19. So, maybe, but I doubt it. 240

[ThelmaLou]

In Donald Trump’s Washington, corruption will be utterly shameless

In ordinary circumstances, an incoming administration is sensitive to political controversies that might distract it or derail its agenda. Once one emerges, everyone is on notice to be careful about keeping the controversy from turning into an outright scandal. You certainly don’t want to repeat the same behavior that drew negative attention in the first place. The only question is how to make the controversy go away as quickly and quietly as possible.

But that’s not how the Trump clan operates.

For example, one of the most difficult questions for the incoming administration concerns the president-elect’s apparent intention to use the highest office in the land as a moneymaking venture, leveraging his political power into greater wealth for himself and his family.

To that end, his new hotel in Washington has been encouraging foreign diplomats to give it their business, which the diplomats clearly understand as a way of currying favor with the president, or at least avoiding his displeasure. As one said in a story that The Post broke a month ago, “Why wouldn’t I stay at his hotel blocks from the White House, so I can tell the new president, ‘I love your new hotel!’ Isn’t it rude to come to his city and say, ‘I am staying at your competitor?'”...

Yeah, shameless is the word. Donald Trump just does (or doesn't do) whatever the fuck he wants, and we just stand back and look. There's no one to bell the cat. So this is now business as usual.


Under political pressure, Kuwait cancels major event at Four Seasons, switches to Trump’s D.C. hotel
After Election Day, everything changed.

The Embassy of Kuwait allegedly cancelled a contract with a Washington, D.C. hotel days after the presidential election, citing political pressure to hold its National Day celebration at the Trump International Hotel instead.

A source tells ThinkProgress that the Kuwaiti embassy, which has regularly held the event at the Four Seasons in Georgetown, abruptly canceled its reservation after members of the Trump Organization pressured the ambassador to hold the event at the hotel owned by the president-elect. The source, who has direct knowledge of the arrangements between the hotels and the embassy, spoke to ThinkProgress on the condition of anonymity because the individual was not authorized to speak publicly. ThinkProgress was also able to review documentary evidence confirming the source’s account.

In the early fall, the Kuwaiti Embassy signed a contract with the Four Seasons. But after the election, members of the Trump Organization contacted the Ambassador of Kuwait, Salem Al-Sabah, and encouraged him to move his event to Trump’s D.C. hotel, the source said....

This is probably just one of those "fake news" things, right? Even the Hypocrite-Elect Trump wouldn't be this blatant about "pay for play," would he? Wait... yes, he would. 241

[Mind's Eye, Watering]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

In Donald Trump’s Washington, corruption will be utterly shameless

Yeah, shameless is the word. Donald Trump just does (or doesn't do) whatever the fuck he wants, and we just stand back and look. There's no one to bell the cat. So this is now business as usual.


Under political pressure, Kuwait cancels major event at Four Seasons, switches to Trump’s D.C. hotel
After Election Day, everything changed.


This is probably just one of those "fake news" things, right? Even the Hypocrite-Elect Trump wouldn't be this blatant about "pay for play," would he? Wait... yes, he would.

Unfortunately, corruption like this will probably be the least of America's problems during Der Führer's reign. 242

[Rick Kitchen]

And Newt Gingrich says that corruption laws shouldn't apply to the Trump administration because all of his cabinet picks are too rich. And if Congress doesn't change the laws, Trump should just pardon all of them who run afoul of the laws. 243

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen

Trump wants to name Sylvester Stallone as chair of the National Endowment for the Arts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arts-role.html

I guess it's better than the typical Republican goal of defunding the arts altogether.

Stallone said "not interested". 244

[dasmoocher]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

Trump is not afraid of his creditors, his creditors are afraid of him. And now that he's president, if he is anything near the despot in making that some people think he is, then his creditors have no fucking hold over him at all.

The banks that lend money to Trump's real estate deals do not lend money on faith. Real estate loans are usually secured and based on a pretty solid business plan. I doubt Trump has trouble raising money for a good project and like it or not, Trump's name on a project adds value. His name represents the lion's share of his wealth.

Originally Posted by drad dog

If his name is his wealth then I have real doubts about his liquidity.

You don't know what his debt is, who it's to, how many times he's been sued, what his tax returns look like, where any of those suits are in progress, what the value of his name is, or what his motives are in what he says and how they are affected by this, how easy or difficult it is for him to borrow money from various sources, how wealthy he is... or anything really.

What you do know you ignore.

Given that, are you fighting ignorance or just being a donald mythifier, and apologist?

It's really curious tone for someone who voted against him.

Well, let me go off in Breitbart-type journalism:

Trump owes millions to Russians overseas and the Russian mob is there to enforce collection, if they are not the lenders directly. New York City construction? I'm sure he had interactions on some level. Maybe Trump is afraid of his creditors when it's the Russian mob and they tell him they'll be putting bullets in his children's heads if he doesn't make good.

How does he make good? By getting elected and by being Putin's bitch and getting the Syrian economic sanctions removed so ExxonMobile and Russia can make billions together.

And, as a bonus, appointing anti-global warming deniers to key positions will just open the Arctic to drilling as fast as possible!

See!

That's how easy it is to come up with some wackadoole conspiracy theory to explain what the people you disagree with are doing!

Connect the dot. Sheeple! (Parody of Trump supporters was intended; purchase of cape does not allow user to fly). 245

[running coach]

Trump demands 50 ft. tree for his last rally stop. City employee cuts one down in city park.

An Alabama mayor’s chief of staff has apologized for cutting down a giant tree from a city park in Mobile so it could be used as a backdrop for President-elect Donald Trump’s “thank you” rally at a nearby football stadium.

Colby Cooper, Mobile Mayor Sandy Stimpson’s top aide, admitted he was “overzealous” in fulfilling a request from Trump’s advance team ahead of Saturday’s event.

The 50-foot cedar tree was cut down at the city’s Public Safety Memorial Park on Friday and taken to Ladd-Peebles Stadium, placed behind the podium was decorated with Christmas ornaments.

Cooper, who served as a longtime aide to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, initially touted the city’s ability to do “the impossible”: Locate and decorate a giant Christmas tree for Trump on short notice.

246

[drad dog]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
"Trump is not afraid of his creditors, his creditors are afraid of him. And now that he's president, if he is anything near the despot in making that some people think he is, then his creditors have no fucking hold over him at all.

The banks that lend money to Trump's real estate deals do not lend money on faith. Real estate loans are usually secured and based on a pretty solid business plan. I doubt Trump has trouble raising money for a good project and like it or not, Trump's name on a project adds value. His name represents the lion's share of his wealth."

Yes I knew there was something really off here. Thanks Moocher.

The idea that trump is not vulnerable to threats of violence (or financial threats for that matter) is part of the same strong man meme we've seen, that's not going to end well. It's really nervy to come on like someone who voted against him and then spout this childish nonsense. 247

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by drad dog

If his name is his wealth then I have real doubts about his liquidity.

His brand is worth more than you or I will ever be. Just because he is not qualified to be president doesn't mean he isn't rich or that his brand doesn't mean anything.

You don't know what his debt is, who it's to, how many times he's been sued, what his tax returns look like, where any of those suits are in progress, what the value of his name is, or what his motives are in what he says and how they are affected by this, how easy or difficult it is for him to borrow money from various sources, how wealthy he is... or anything really.

He hasn't disclosed his financials to me but any reasonable estimate of his wealth is close to or over a billion dollars.

What you do know you ignore.

What am I ignoring? Or are you another one of those posters who think that if I'm not with you, I'm against you?

Given that, are you fighting ignorance or just being a donald mythifier, and apologist?

In what way am I a Donald apologist. IIRC You are responding to the notion that Donald Trump the POTUS-elect is going to do the bidding of Russia because he might owe money to some Russian banks. Do you seriously think that notion deserves serious consideration or do you think that it is inappropriate for me to point out the dangers of crying wolf and being fucking wrong, again.

What are you going to say in 2 or 3 years when it turns out that Trump ISN'T actually a Manchurian candidate in thrall to Putin? The Liberal hyperventilation just makes it easier to dismiss any actual concerns we might have about Trump.

It's really curious tone for someone who voted against him.

That's because I have more loyalty to my country and the truth than partisan politics. Do I think Trump will be a good President? Nope. Do I think that he is going to hand our country over to Russia because some Russian banks lent him some money (do we know this for a fact?). Nope. And I think that anyone that pushes this line of thinking is an idiot who will do more harm to the efforts to defeat Trump in 2020 than Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley did to racial justice issues. If we hurl baseless allegation after baseless allegation at him for the next four years, then we simply lose credibility. Sure it fires up the left wing idiots but we don't have as many idiots as the other side and we will lose if it becomes a battle of the idiots. 248

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by SteveG1

It’s already been well documented that American banks are no longer willing (source: Wall Street Journal) to loan money to Donald Trump due to his pattern of strategically not paying his bills or repaying his debts when he thinks he can get away with it. And yet he’s managed to nearly double his debt load (source: Bloomberg) over the past year by borrowing a flurry of funds from overseas investors.

I thought those were links but they're not.

I know for a fact that some of his projects are financed by Chinese banks. Is he going to be in thrall to China as well because his rhetoric about trade deals and his conversation with Taiwan makes me think he is not THEIR puppet. Why would he be Russia's puppet?

So do you have any actual cites or just vague memories of Trump being unable to borrow domestically? Because I'm pretty sure that a significant portion of the financing for his development projects are from domestic sources. 249

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye, Watering

Man, those were great days, huh? When we though Bush was the bottom of the barrel?

Baby Bush started the fucking war in Iraq that we are still fighting 15 fucking years later. A war that escalated the middle east conflict to global dimensions. Its hard to imagine Donald Trump fucking up as badly without Dick Cheney and the neo-cons telling him what to do. AFAICT, there aren't any PNAC folks in his cabinet. 250