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  #201  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
Just as a matter of interest, how would any poster know the actual ethnicity of any other poster?
monstro has discussed her ethnicity on the board, and also has a photo in the picture thread in MPSIMS. I have no doubt that Zeke was aware of it, or he wouldn't have used that specific insult.
  #202  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:41 AM
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humans are primates though surely?
Now you're just being disingenuous. I don't think anyone is so ignorant to be unaware that using such an insult against a black person is especially pernicious.

Last edited by Colibri; 11-27-2019 at 10:43 AM.
  #203  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:47 AM
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Now you're just being disingenuous. I don't think anyone is so ignorant to be unaware that using such an insult against a black person is especially pernicious.
If you know they are black, sure. If you don't then no. I don't agree.
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  #204  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:55 AM
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monstro has discussed her ethnicity on the board, and also has a photo in the picture thread in MPSIMS. I have no doubt that Zeke was aware of it, or he wouldn't have used that specific insult.
If you are that certain then fine, have at it. My suggestion is that you should be sure about it rather than assuming everyone should know that and my original question was with that in mind.

I've personally never seen the picture thread (didn't know there was one) and had no idea of monstro's ethnicity or gender. You seem to have knowledge of motivations and personal information about posters that aren't apparent to me.
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  #205  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
If you are that certain then fine, have at it. My suggestion is that you should be sure about it rather than assuming everyone should know that and my original question was with that in mind.

I've personally never seen the picture thread (didn't know there was one) and had no idea of monstro's ethnicity or gender. You seem to have knowledge of motivations and personal information about posters that aren't apparent to me.
Since there is no burning need for monkey-based insults, I think I'm fine with the mods not giving much benefit of the doubt here.
  #206  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
If you are that certain then fine, have at it. My suggestion is that you should be sure about it rather than assuming everyone should know that and my original question was with that in mind.

I've personally never seen the picture thread (didn't know there was one) and had no idea of monstro's ethnicity or gender. You seem to have knowledge of motivations and personal information about posters that aren't apparent to me.
Yes, but you've been belaboring the point after having been informed differently.

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If you know they are black, sure. If you don't then no. I don't agree.
I said that it was pernicious if used against a black person. By beating this into the ground you just make yourself look ignorant. But suit yourself.

Last edited by Colibri; 11-27-2019 at 11:05 AM.
  #207  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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FWIW I had no idea monstro was black or a woman, but I will not miss Zeke very much.
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  #208  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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I said that it was pernicious if used against a black person. By belaboring this point you just make yourself look ignorant. But suit yourself.
I take that as a concession and leave you to it
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  #209  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:31 AM
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Well I don't know what to say. I don't keep track of individual poster's names so I can honestly say that I don't know monstro is either black or a woman and the preceding posts that I saw didn't suggest either to me.

Maybe you take a deeper interest in such things but I think it is unreasonable to expect that I should know.
Well, you posted 43 times, and monstro 38 times, in this thread from this February, in which she made it clear she was black.

If you are going to take it upon yourself to comment on such things, perhaps you should pay more attention to them.

Last edited by Colibri; 11-27-2019 at 11:32 AM.
  #210  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:33 AM
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Oh for God's sake. He went on a date. She didn't have a good time. He clearly deserves the fucking electric chair.
We had a lenghty discussion on this when it was fresh. Per her own admission, everytime she asked him to stop or slow down, he did. Everything she asked he complied.

He got crucified anyway. No wonder he is annoyed.

I never liked Louis CK and found Ansari cringeworthy. But anyone who places them in the same cohort is a lunatic.
She didn't have a good time? What I remember is he kept pressing and pressing and she kept thinking, "Where did that great guy I thought I was on a date with go?" His behavior was greatly at odds with the way he presented himself, so how was she to know how to deal with him?

And anybody who thinks they can whine that women don't say "no" bluntly enough or that men don't understand social cues need to stuff it, because for one, women get killed for saying no; this guy suddenly changed his behavior, so all bets are off, and strangely enough, men have no problem with social cues in any other situation where getting laid is not on the table. If guys were really this bad at reading cues, they'd be like that with everybody.

https://www.damemagazine.com/2017/10...ear-saying-no/

Also? Guys who keep asking and pushing and asking are the goddamned problem, not women. What's the point of saying "no" when guys just reject it or pretend they don't hear it?


https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.co...ke-the-answer/

There's more than a hint from the guys dismissing the Ansari situation that a good date for a guy means a bad date for the woman, and it's all on her to deal with it, but she better not complain, ever, in any way about it. Why not? That's an interesting question, isn't it?

Also, 'she didn't say no' is pretty much like, 'well, it's not illegal' or 'he hasn't been arrested.' If those are valid arguments, then start applying them to Hillary Clinton, Christine Blasey-Ford, and any woman who guys call a false accuser for dropping charges.
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  #211  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:34 AM
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Well, you posted 43 times, and monstro 38 times, in this thread from this February, in which she made it clear she was black.

If you are going to take it upon yourself to comment on such things, perhaps you should pay more attention to them.
I take absolutely no notice of the names of posters or such personal information. Perhaps not everyone is like you?
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Last edited by Novelty Bobble; 11-27-2019 at 11:35 AM.
  #212  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:40 AM
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Well, you posted 43 times, and monstro 38 times, in this thread from this February, in which she made it clear she was black.

If you are going to take it upon yourself to comment on such things, perhaps you should pay more attention to them.
We shouldn’t have to act like an insane stalker or the CIA by keeping a database on each poster complete with picture, medical history, genealogy, and dna test. I mean if we are going to have a pit let’s have a pit.

There is more to pitting than ineffectual and boring cliches. Why are you folks trying to calibrate offensiveness and effectiveness of insults when the whole point of an insult is to be insulting? Seems pretentious.

Last edited by octopus; 11-27-2019 at 11:41 AM.
  #213  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:48 AM
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I take absolutely no notice of the names of posters or such personal information. Perhaps not everyone is like you?
I'm saying that if you are going to comment on whether or not another poster might be black, then you should pay attention to such things rather than displaying your obliviousness. You were the one who assumed that Zeke was like you.
  #214  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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We shouldn’t have to act like an insane stalker or the CIA by keeping a database on each poster complete with picture, medical history, genealogy, and dna test. I mean if we are going to have a pit let’s have a pit.

There is more to pitting than ineffectual and boring cliches. Why are you folks trying to calibrate offensiveness and effectiveness of insults when the whole point of an insult is to be insulting? Seems pretentious.
If you're going to use an insult that historically has been used specifically as hate speech against black people, you better make damn sure that that person isn't black. If you are going to use such a specific insult, then the onus is on you. There are plenty of insults available that don't have that baggage.

Last edited by Colibri; 11-27-2019 at 11:53 AM.
  #215  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:15 PM
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If you're going to use an insult that historically has been used specifically as hate speech against black people, you better make damn sure that that person isn't black. If you are going to use such a specific insult, then the onus is on you. There are plenty of insults available that don't have that baggage.
Can I call you crazy, dumb, simple minded? Or do I need to know your Stanford-Binet results?
  #216  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:18 PM
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Can I call you crazy, dumb, simple minded? Or do I need to know your Stanford-Binet results?
Those remarks are not considered hate speech. But go on trying to change the subject.
  #217  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:24 PM
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I take absolutely no notice of the names of posters or such personal information. Perhaps not everyone is like you?
But perhaps we don't need to worry about it. If you are in a racial discussion like the one Colibri linked and you don't notice a prolific poster in the same thread has made their race clear, why in the world should we extend you the benefit of the doubt that you choose to be clueless? Sorry, I mean "not notice personal information "? It really is safer to assume you are a lying troll.
  #218  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:29 PM
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Those remarks are not considered hate speech. But go on trying to change the subject.
But something similar was considered jerkish based upon the determination that personal information was known. I donít keep a spreadsheet of who is who. I donít even know whoís in the hive.
  #219  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:32 PM
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You sure talk about the hive a lot for someone who doesn't know who's in it.
  #220  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:24 PM
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But perhaps we don't need to worry about it. If you are in a racial discussion like the one Colibri linked and you don't notice a prolific poster in the same thread has made their race clear,
notice then, in that thread? or retain that knowledge now?

I clearly did the former and not the latter, That's just not what I do. Names, faces and personal info really do just drift out of my head once the immediate point has passed.

If you can't believe that then I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt I have the same debate with the same people multiple times and certainly have no recollection of that specific thread.

Do you think I should be expected to remember such information from months ago?
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  #221  
Old 11-27-2019, 03:34 PM
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I disagree that primate is a frequently used slur against black people, maybe monkey is, do the mods know for a fact that Zeke knew she was black or are they just assuming that information. If you are going to make that argument, why not post some threads that they both post in and monstro states her ethnicity. Otherwise you're just guessing.
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Last edited by pool; 11-27-2019 at 03:35 PM.
  #222  
Old 11-27-2019, 03:52 PM
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I disagree that primate is a frequently used slur against black people, maybe monkey is, do the mods know for a fact that Zeke knew she was black or are they just assuming that information. If you are going to make that argument, why not post some threads that they both post in and monstro states her ethnicity. Otherwise you're just guessing.
You disagree? Your opinion does not determine what is real or not.

The choices for you here are that you are either lying or you have been living in a box for decades. Or you and the others protesting are just tedious fucking assholes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...s_by_ethnicity

Scroll down to "African."
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  #223  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:01 PM
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Apparently substituting "primate" for "monkey," "ape," or "gorilla" is some impenetrable code, because racists never try using language in that way.
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  #224  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:22 PM
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notice then, in that thread? or retain that knowledge now?

I clearly did the former and not the latter, That's just not what I do. Names, faces and personal info really do just drift out of my head once the immediate point has passed.

If you can't believe that then I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt I have the same debate with the same people multiple times and certainly have no recollection of that specific thread.
It's not that I can't believe it. I choose not to. Like it or not, racist trolls have abused the benefit of the doubt for the last decade or so. I have decided to seriously recalibrate how far that goes. You and Zeke fail the new standards. Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't owe you fuck all in this regard.
  #225  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:39 PM
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It's not that I can't believe it. I choose not to. Like it or not, racist trolls have abused the benefit of the doubt for the last decade or so. I have decided to seriously recalibrate how far that goes. You and Zeke fail the new standards. Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't owe you fuck all in this regard.
I haven't defended Zeke at all. Nor have I defended the use of racist language. I said that if you had good reason to believe that it was intended as a racist slur then fine, warn away.
I was just not convinced that the "reasonable" bar was cleared in that thread and I do worry that an unrealistic precedent is being set.
I'm happy to accept the fact that the warning in this case may be warranted.

You are free to react however you choose but I know for certain that I'm not a racist troll and so also know for certain how inaccurate your judgement is.
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  #226  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:45 PM
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It's not that I can't believe it. I choose not to. Like it or not, racist trolls have abused the benefit of the doubt for the last decade or so. I have decided to seriously recalibrate how far that goes. You and Zeke fail the new standards. Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't owe you fuck all in this regard.
It's the pit, _____. Fill in appropriate yet acceptable for your life circumstances insult.
  #227  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:01 PM
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You are free to react however you choose but I know for certain that I'm not a racist troll and so also know for certain how inaccurate your judgement is.
I didn't say you were a racist troll. I said lying troll but sorry, the racist trolls have fucked it up for woke lying trolls too.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-27-2019 at 05:01 PM.
  #228  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:15 PM
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I didn't say you were a racist troll. I said lying troll but sorry, the racist trolls have fucked it up for woke lying trolls too.
Well, sorry to dissappoint but I'm certainly not a lying troll either.
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  #229  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:24 PM
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Well, sorry to dissappoint but I'm certainly not a lying troll either.
You forgot the number 1 rule here. If you disagree with someone you are a lying, racist troll.
  #230  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:03 PM
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You forgot the number 1 rule here. If you disagree with someone you are a lying, racist troll.

Ah, the standard Trumpie whine.

The poster you're defending is whining that he didn't know "primate" was a racist slur, and also that he didn't know the poster he hurled it as was black. WHAT AN AMAZING COINCIDENCE. He and the other poster posted dozens of times in the same thread, in which she discussed her ethnicity.

How strange that this particular combination of self-selected ignorance and convenient information avoidance afflicts so many men on the rightwing! We need a telethon.

The first argument would require brain damage to believe and is typical of your basic reichwing troll.

The second? If he's that stupid and oblivious, how the fuck does he manage to get his underoos on every day, in which case, how is he even literate enough to form and type sentences? I mean, this is the standard reichwing defense, but you're defending this asshole, too.
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  #231  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:32 PM
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My opinion is that itís a bit weird and borderline creepy to have to maintain a spreadsheet of other posters to know what is acceptable when trying to hurt their feelings.
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Old 11-27-2019, 06:38 PM
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My opinion is that itís a bit weird and borderline creepy to have to maintain a spreadsheet of other posters to know what is acceptable when trying to hurt their feelings.
Well, if you don't like it you can avoid the difficulty by simply not trying to hurt other posters' feelings with personal insults.

I see nothing wrong with requiring people who want to use personal insults to maintain some awareness of their context. If you want to sling around personal insults without doing your due diligence about possible forbidden slurs, then you'd better be prepared to apologize and/or take the consequences if it turns out you insulted somebody worse than you meant to.
  #233  
Old 11-27-2019, 07:09 PM
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Oh, a baby proofed pit?
  #234  
Old 11-27-2019, 07:35 PM
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You forgot the number 1 rule here. If you disagree with someone you are a lying, racist troll.
You'll find that I actually don't do that. Without searching I bet it's been over a year since I called anyone a troll. I know that conflicts with your hive mind theory...
  #235  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:39 PM
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Nm
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Last edited by pool; 11-27-2019 at 08:42 PM.
  #236  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:53 PM
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Oh, a baby proofed pit?
I don't get this remark at all. Are you complaining that prohibiting insults to a particular poster's ethnicity etc. somehow makes the Pit too "safe" and bland for your tastes? You?! The guy who constantly whines about other people being "potty mouths" if they use even the most ordinary obscenities in the BBQ Pit where they're explicitly permitted?

No, that interpretation can't be right, but I'm at a loss how else to interpret your post.

Last edited by Kimstu; 11-27-2019 at 08:53 PM.
  #237  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:38 PM
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Nm
NM



eta: :-)

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  #238  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:04 PM
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My opinion is that itís a bit weird and borderline creepy to have to maintain a spreadsheet of other posters to know what is acceptable when trying to hurt their feelings.
Which is why, as I said, it is easier to simply avoid using monkey-insults if you don't know someone's race. If an insult is a common racist term when used toward a certain race, then don't use it.

It's not like the term Zeke used is somehow vital or necessary to convey his meaning. There were even other P-animals at his disposal.

It's just being a realist and being practical. If you wind up calling a black person a monkey, it will be perceived as a racist insult. It will both hurt the person, and get you labeled a racist. So it's up to you to decide if the risk is worth it.

I say it isn't. Ever since I was once surprised by a poster's race, I stopped using simian-based insults just to be sure. (I realized I was assuming everyone was white until shown otherwise, which is silly.) There are dumber animals to use if I want to imply the person is stupid, and wilder animals if I want to imply they are uncivilized.

You're the one who keeps lamenting that the Pit is too mean, so why do you object to attempts to make it less mean? Is it just because you'd rather have it removed entirely?
  #239  
Old 11-28-2019, 12:27 AM
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Which is why, as I said, it is easier to simply avoid using monkey-insults if you don't know someone's race. If an insult is a common racist term when used toward a certain race, then don't use it.

It's not like the term Zeke used is somehow vital or necessary to convey his meaning. There were even other P-animals at his disposal.

It's just being a realist and being practical. If you wind up calling a black person a monkey, it will be perceived as a racist insult. It will both hurt the person, and get you labeled a racist. So it's up to you to decide if the risk is worth it.

I say it isn't. Ever since I was once surprised by a poster's race, I stopped using simian-based insults just to be sure. (I realized I was assuming everyone was white until shown otherwise, which is silly.) There are dumber animals to use if I want to imply the person is stupid, and wilder animals if I want to imply they are uncivilized.

You're the one who keeps lamenting that the Pit is too mean, so why do you object to attempts to make it less mean? Is it just because you'd rather have it removed entirely?
That's a damn good question BigT and you know for the most part what you say makes sense when you aren't posting from a position of uncompromising and righteous anger.

The Pit is mean and the Pit I feel is a detriment to the board in the sense that I believe it's the extraordinarily rare individual who can not let Pit feuds spill over into sniping and even worse insidious behaviors elsewhere on this board. However, if we are to have a Pit I prefer a completely no holds barred, with the exceptions of calls to violence and doxxing.

Now, I realize that for most publishers or platforms no holds barred is no good. I mean it really is no good. But you get to see people how they truly are when there are no constraints to their civility. It's one reason why I think those who initiate pittings are quite often far more contemptible as humans than those who are pitted or those who respond to a pitting.

So, yes, if we are to have a forum to air grievances and put the verbal smack down on other fools than a non baby proofed version is the best. That said, if there are to be rules I want them adjudicated consistently and I most definitely want what is stated to be acceptable to be acceptable.
  #240  
Old 11-28-2019, 06:13 AM
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You disagree? Your opinion does not determine what is real or not.

The choices for you here are that you are either lying or you have been living in a box for decades. Or you and the others protesting are just tedious fucking assholes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...s_by_ethnicity

Scroll down to "African."
You know, I'm with Novelty Bobble on this. I was going to thank you for the cite that proved us wrong, but when I followed it, I discovered the word "primate" does not appear on that page. So it doesn't help your argument. May I suggest that the source of the problem here is people thinking "primate" and "monkey" are synonymous, when they are not?

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I disagree that primate is a frequently used slur against black people, maybe monkey is, do the mods know for a fact that Zeke knew she was black or are they just assuming that information. If you are going to make that argument, why not post some threads that they both post in and monstro states her ethnicity. Otherwise you're just guessing.
Precisely. As I said before, I'm not against the banning per se, I just think it maybe hasn't been fully justified, perhaps due to the above misunderstanding. On the other hand, if Zeke has a history of borderline-racist behaviour on this board, maybe the assumption that "pestilential primate" was indeed intended as a racist insult is fair, especially as he did nothing to contradict this or apologise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Apparently substituting "primate" for "monkey," "ape," or "gorilla" is some impenetrable code, because racists never try using language in that way.
I accept that what you are insinuating here could be the case, I just haven't seen it proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
Ah, the standard Trumpie whine.

The poster you're defending is whining that he didn't know "primate" was a racist slur, and also that he didn't know the poster he hurled it as was black. WHAT AN AMAZING COINCIDENCE. He and the other poster posted dozens of times in the same thread, in which she discussed her ethnicity.

How strange that this particular combination of self-selected ignorance and convenient information avoidance afflicts so many men on the rightwing! We need a telethon.

The first argument would require brain damage to believe and is typical of your basic reichwing troll.

The second? If he's that stupid and oblivious, how the fuck does he manage to get his underoos on every day, in which case, how is he even literate enough to form and type sentences? I mean, this is the standard reichwing defense, but you're defending this asshole, too.
You are so wrong here it's laughable. Novelty Bobble and I are not defending racism. My position is that referring to a black person as a "monkey" is 100% a racist slur. Referring to someone as a "primate" is not necessarily so, though it is certainly possible, as I have acknowledged and as alluded to by Ascenray.

I find it quite easy to believe that Novelty Bobble does not recall from a discussion some months ago the gender/ethnicity of another poster, since I continually forget that monstro is female myself (despite having seen it referenced a number of times on the board over the years) and until this thread I was unaware of her ethnicity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Which is why, as I said, it is easier to simply avoid using monkey-insults if you don't know someone's race. If an insult is a common racist term when used toward a certain race, then don't use it.
I will be (and indeed, have already been, as far as I can remember) heeding this advice, but I maintain "primate" is not a "common racist term".
  #241  
Old 11-28-2019, 07:50 AM
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You are so wrong here it's laughable. Novelty Bobble and I are not defending racism. My position is that referring to a black person as a "monkey" is 100% a racist slur. Referring to someone as a "primate" is not necessarily so, though it is certainly possible, as I have acknowledged and as alluded to by Ascenray.

I find it quite easy to believe that Novelty Bobble does not recall from a discussion some months ago the gender/ethnicity of another poster, since I continually forget that monstro is female myself (despite having seen it referenced a number of times on the board over the years) and until this thread I was unaware of her ethnicity..
Couple of things worth mentioning.

I have a suspicion (but can't fully remember and can't find the post) that at some point in the past I have mentioned that I suffer from a degree of face/name blindness and personal info just doesn't stick. I can remember my sister's birthday because it is a week away from mine. My mother, father and two brother's birthdays are in December, October, October, April respectively but as for actual dates I'd be guessing, and that's the family that I know and love. Imagine how much brain-space I set aside for the minor details mentioned by posters.

Secondly I posted in another thread on religious indoctrination and over the course of that discussion I posted that the person I was responding to, and me, and everyone had "monkey brains" and were "stupid shaved apes". Now, I have no idea whether that poster I responded to is black or whatever and even after being involved in this thread it didn't cross my mind to worry about it until I read it back to myself after pressing "submit". I immediately considered editing but thought, fuck it, I can defend the use and it is definitely non-racist regardless of any other ethnicity involved.

What to make of that? I was definitely insulting myself and the other posters equally, was I wrong to use those terms? what other terms could I have used to get across the point of restricted cognitive abilities?
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  #242  
Old 11-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Cat View Post
You know, I'm with Novelty Bobble on this. I was going to thank you for the cite that proved us wrong, but when I followed it, I discovered the word "primate" does not appear on that page. So it doesn't help your argument. May I suggest that the source of the problem here is people thinking "primate" and "monkey" are synonymous, when they are not?



Precisely. As I said before, I'm not against the banning per se, I just think it maybe hasn't been fully justified, perhaps due to the above misunderstanding. On the other hand, if Zeke has a history of borderline-racist behaviour on this board, maybe the assumption that "pestilential primate" was indeed intended as a racist insult is fair, especially as he did nothing to contradict this or apologise.



I accept that what you are insinuating here could be the case, I just haven't seen it proven.



You are so wrong here it's laughable. Novelty Bobble and I are not defending racism. My position is that referring to a black person as a "monkey" is 100% a racist slur. Referring to someone as a "primate" is not necessarily so, though it is certainly possible, as I have acknowledged and as alluded to by Ascenray.

I find it quite easy to believe that Novelty Bobble does not recall from a discussion some months ago the gender/ethnicity of another poster, since I continually forget that monstro is female myself (despite having seen it referenced a number of times on the board over the years) and until this thread I was unaware of her ethnicity.



I will be (and indeed, have already been, as far as I can remember) heeding this advice, but I maintain "primate" is not a "common racist term".
So.....you're saying that despite the fact THAT all the other simian-adjacent terms are racist insults, you're going to daintily exclude THIS one on some technical basis?

Yeah, SO convincing.
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  #243  
Old 11-28-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
Couple of things worth mentioning.

I have a suspicion (but can't fully remember and can't find the post) that at some point in the past I have mentioned that I suffer from a degree of face/name blindness and personal info just doesn't stick. I can remember my sister's birthday because it is a week away from mine. My mother, father and two brother's birthdays are in December, October, October, April respectively but as for actual dates I'd be guessing, and that's the family that I know and love. Imagine how much brain-space I set aside for the minor details mentioned by posters.

Secondly I posted in another thread on religious indoctrination and over the course of that discussion I posted that the person I was responding to, and me, and everyone had "monkey brains" and were "stupid shaved apes". Now, I have no idea whether that poster I responded to is black or whatever and even after being involved in this thread it didn't cross my mind to worry about it until I read it back to myself after pressing "submit". I immediately considered editing but thought, fuck it, I can defend the use and it is definitely non-racist regardless of any other ethnicity involved.

What to make of that? I was definitely insulting myself and the other posters equally, was I wrong to use those terms? what other terms could I have used to get across the point of restricted cognitive abilities?

If you are white and male and the poster you are addressing is anything but, it impossible for you to insult everybody equally. Insults are the cherry on top of centuries of assholes insulting, murdering, raping, enslaving, and disenfranchising black people, women, LGBTQ folks, immigrants, Muslims, -------not to mention shaping the culture so the bigotry's built and mixed in, like eggs in a cake, and only white dudes, for example, never get accused of lying across the board or being hysterical, like the women who are being accused of just having "bad dates." Religion, culture, law enforcement, justice, all make white men the human against which all others are judged.

Oh, and here, for people who scoff at how women react to mens' actions so cautiously: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...nored-catcalls
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Last edited by margin; 11-28-2019 at 08:34 AM. Reason: link
  #244  
Old 11-28-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
If you are white and male and the poster you are addressing is anything but, it impossible for you to insult everybody equally. Insults are the cherry on top of centuries of assholes insulting, murdering, raping, enslaving, and disenfranchising black people, women, LGBTQ folks, immigrants, Muslims, -------not to mention shaping the culture so the bigotry's built and mixed in, like eggs in a cake, and only white dudes, for example, never get accused of lying across the board or being hysterical, like the women who are being accused of just having "bad dates." Religion, culture, law enforcement, justice, all make white men the human against which all others are judged.

so.........are they "anything but"? did I use hate speech? are you going to report me?
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  #245  
Old 11-28-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
So.....you're saying that despite the fact THAT all the other simian-adjacent terms are racist insults, you're going to daintily exclude THIS one on some technical basis?

Yeah, SO convincing.
You can drop the sarcasm, it doesn't work well when you've got the completely wrong idea about me. Obviously I haven't been clear enough, let me try again. What I am trying to say is that while "primate" could be intended as a racist insult, there is also the possibility that it is not. Specifically, I think there are two possibilities here:

1. Zeke used "pestilential primate" as a colourful insult towards someone whose ethnicity he was unaware of, intending "primate" in its literal sense as an unusual, alliterative way to describe a fellow human.

2. Zeke was aware of the ethnicity of the target of his insult and used "pestilential primate" as a 'clever' way to insinuate they were racially inferior.

Note the absence of the possibility that Zeke knew the ethnicity of the target but didn't intend or can be excused possible racism.

While I suspect number 2 is more likely, I am merely pointing out that I haven't seen much evidence pointing one way or the other.

Novelty Bobble, meanwhile, is concerned that words used with no racist intent could be perceived differently by those who have a better knowledge/memory of the ethnicity of others on this message board, which seems a fair concern. Neither of us is suggesting that hate speech or racism is in any way acceptable.
  #246  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Well, if you don't like it you can avoid the difficulty by simply not trying to hurt other posters' feelings with personal insults.

I see nothing wrong with requiring people who want to use personal insults to maintain some awareness of their context. If you want to sling around personal insults without doing your due diligence about possible forbidden slurs, then you'd better be prepared to apologize and/or take the consequences if it turns out you insulted somebody worse than you meant to.
Anyone who tosses around insults had better be prepared to receive insults. So, "fuck their feelings" anyway. We see who the real snowflakes are.
  #247  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
If you are white and male and the poster you are addressing is anything but, it impossible for you to insult everybody equally. Insults are the cherry on top of centuries of assholes insulting, murdering, raping, enslaving, and disenfranchising black people, women, LGBTQ folks, immigrants, Muslims, -------not to mention shaping the culture so the bigotry's built and mixed in, like eggs in a cake, and only white dudes, for example, never get accused of lying across the board or being hysterical, like the women who are being accused of just having "bad dates." Religion, culture, law enforcement, justice, all make white men the human against which all others are judged.

Oh, and here, for people who scoff at how women react to mens' actions so cautiously: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...nored-catcalls
Thatís a very poor and misleading representation of history. Not only is it obviously not true itís borderline sexist and racist. Boo.
  #248  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:06 AM
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Anyone who tosses around insults had better be prepared to receive insults. So, "fuck their feelings" anyway. We see who the real snowflakes are.
Damn it steveg Iím agreeing with you and BigT in the same thread. The pit has frozen over.
  #249  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:30 AM
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I would like to request that the discussion of ďprimateĒ be taken to some other thread.
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  #250  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:55 AM
Novelty Bobble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margin View Post
If you are white and male and the poster you are addressing is anything but, it impossible for you to insult everybody equally. Insults are the cherry on top of centuries of assholes insulting, murdering, raping, enslaving, and disenfranchising black people, women, LGBTQ folks, immigrants, Muslims, -------not to mention shaping the culture so the bigotry's built and mixed in, like eggs in a cake, and only white dudes, for example, never get accused of lying across the board or being hysterical, like the women who are being accused of just having "bad dates." Religion, culture, law enforcement, justice, all make white men the human against which all others are judged.

Oh, and here, for people who scoff at how women react to mens' actions so cautiously: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...nored-catcalls
"sins of our fathers" eh?

What a confused, hateful, bigoted, prejudiced, blinkered, small-minded view of humanity. Try dealing with people based on what they do rather than the historical sins or imagined characteristics of the group you choose to put them in.
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