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Old 11-23-2019, 05:32 AM
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Tesla Cybertruck


It's popped up in a few threads, so I figured it deserved its own thread.

Tesla has announced a new product, the Cybertruck. In case you hadn't guessed, it's an electric truck with "cyberpunk" styling.

Musk has been tweeting about it for years now, saying they're working on a truck that's Blade Runner inspired. He wasn't wrong about that. Alternately, it looks like a DeLorean fucked an F-117 Nighthawk.

At any rate, the specs for the price look impressive: $40k for a 250 mile single-motor model, $50k for 300 mi dual-motor, and $70k for 500 mi tri-motor. Pulling capacity looks pretty good (EVs are good at that). All versions have 6 seats (two rows) and a Model 3 like interior.

The bed is... unusual. It's hard to tell, but there is a real 6.5 foot bed at the rear. The rear slope reduces side access somewhat, but it has controllable airbag suspension and can lower the rear for easier access. There's a roll-down cover for the bed that completely encloses it.

Opinions on the looks are... mixed, to say the least. I think everyone agrees that it's ugly. But is it future-ugly, or military-ugly, or badass-ugly? It certainly isn't generically ugly, whatever it is. Clearly, Tesla didn't build this for the mass market (Musk himself more or less admitted this was a pet project), but it would not shock me if they can sell a few tens of thousands per year. And maybe a lot more if enough people care more about specs than price (they seem to have gotten >100k deposits so far, though at only $100 each it's hard to say how meaningful that is).

Of note, this is very likely not a concept car--or rather, it is, but Tesla will almost certainly ship something very close to this. For better or worse, Tesla does have a history of shipping what they say they will--say, the Falcon Wing Doors on the Model X, or the minimalist interior of the Model 3. There'll be tweaks, of course (they'll have to lose the yoke-like steering wheel, maybe add some mirrors), but it's unlikely to be significant.

Motor Trend has a few articles on it:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...manufacturing/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...p-photos-info/
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...kup-reception/

The resident Tesla curmudgeon at Ars Technica, Jon Gitlin, seems to like it, which rather amuses me:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/11...la-cybertruck/

The Verge had some great photos of the truck and the event:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/22/...rice-elon-musk

Looks like a fun event: Tesla coils, a Blade Runneresque Asian noodle bar, and a bunch of movie props like the Blade Runner police car, the Total Recall Johnnycab, and the BttF DeLorean.

People generally liked the ride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-CWAZ9T30w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKX7mwWnygE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs86X_IQJJo

So, anyone put in a deposit yet? Trucks aren't my thing, but being an EV fan I'd certainly be looking at this if I was. More than anything, the specs for the price are significantly better than their two major competitors: Rivian and Bollinger.

Oh yeah, and there was an amusing event at the launch which will live in infamy alongside such product launch fuckups as the Windows 95 BSOD or Apple's Face ID fail.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:42 AM
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It looks like what a kid in the 1980s would have thought a truck would look like in 2020. Not sure who they had in mind as a customer when they designed this thing. Kind of looks like someone went off and designed something solely for himself.

Last edited by jz78817; 11-23-2019 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:57 AM
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That someone would be Musk, and he pretty much said exactly that. Not a bad thing, in and of itself (design by focus group does tend to produce bland designs). We'll see if this ends up being too extreme or not. I'm kinda getting used to it already.

One thing that does stick in my mind is that this doesn't need a stamping press. Those are humongous machines that could easily limit production capacity of a factory. Tesla probably doesn't want to take valuable stamping capacity from Model 3 or Y production. So folded flat sheets it is.

Doesn't need a paint shop, either.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:03 AM
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It's certainly ugly. After talking about it my wife and I decided it looks like the bat mobile from the Dark Knight. I'm sure that will appeal to some people of a post apocalyptic mindset. I'm completely shocked by the 100k preorders and my first guess is they are people who are expecting limited production runs so the resale market may be more expensive than through Tesla.

It's funny to me that this made Rivian better looking in my eyes. I initially wasn't thrilled by the Rivian look but the specs are good enough that I'm interested. The looks I dig are by Bollinger but those are more expensive than I could afford in the next decade. After looking at the Cyber truck the R1T looks like a super model. I prefer the 4 engine R1T for off roading particularly doing rock work. It also seems like the visibility and storage on the R1T are much better.

Finish is a bit hard to tell but it seems like the interior of the R1T will be nicer too and at least partially justify its price point. Though thirty grand is a lot of cost difference. I was amused by the pop up tent in the bed of the cyber truck photo since that seemed to be a pretty direct shot at some of the truck camping advertisements Rivian has run.

In the end I gave the cyber truck an opportunity to change my mind just like I'm going to give Ford a shot at my money but for now it looks like I'll be buying a R1T in 2021.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:37 AM
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It's the new Pontiac Aztek!

Needs some new window glass, too.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:52 AM
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I think it looks really freaking cool actually.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

One thing that does stick in my mind is that this doesn't need a stamping press.
i'm curious what leads you to that conclusion. The outer body panels being flat isn't evidence of that claim. what does the underlying structure look like? be kind of hard to build effective crumple zones with just flat pieces of metal.

more and more I think this is Tesla's actual first concept vehicle, and the actual truck will resemble it but be toned down for production.

and 3mm thick body panels? that's basically between 11 and 12 gauge, so about 5 lb./sq. ft. This thing going to weigh 10,000 lbs?

Last edited by jz78817; 11-23-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:42 AM
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I guess I don't understand who the market for this vehicle is. As far as consumer vehicles go, Pick up trucks are, on average, more likely to be owned by rural people who find environmentalism 'faggy' vs other vehicles like sedans or hatchbacks. Obviously not all are like that, but I mean who is his market supposed to be (I don't see the usual pickup truck market buying a $40k environmentally friendly concept car)? Granted, I guess he doesn't need a mainstream market for it which is good. There is going to be a niche market for it. That is how he started the tesla. He found a niche market, then created newer, cheaper, more mainstream markets. Maybe he's doing the same with the truck. Maybe this is the first generation, and by the third generation we will have more mainstream looking trucks for 20k.

https://nypost.com/2017/11/29/study-...you-voted-for/

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Stanford University researchers used a computer algorithm to determined whether a neighborhood leaned to the left or right by looking at vehicles in 50 millions of images from Google Street View in 200 American cities.

When sedans outnumbered pickup trucks, there was an 88 percent chance the city would vote Democratic.

In areas with more pickup trucks, the odds switched to 82 percent in favor of Republicans, the researchers concluded.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 11-23-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:40 AM
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I’m rooting for Tesla, and all other car companies in the EV business, but what a waste of R&D money. A refresh to the S & X models would have been such a better investment.
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:56 AM
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This is why you shouldn't smoke pot when designing cars.

I like it better than every Tesla model to date. I find the S, M-X and M-3 to be bulbous and bloated looking. This thing... it has character.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:10 AM
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I think it's a huge missed opportunity. Truck body-on-frame design is not, as Elon seems to think, the result of conservative engineering. It's the result of a decades of tuning the form to be as useful as possible. Body on frame allows for the endless commercial/industrial modifications of the ass end of the truck to something more utilitarian. Low box sides make accessing items in the box easier, and flat box sides allow stacking oversized loads.

This is more a car with a box than it is a truck. A really tall El Camino. Now granted, there are millions of pickup drivers out there who only ever use their trucks as cars with a little more cargo capacity. However, there are millions more pickups out there that are fleet vehicles, purchased by companies to do work, with the purchasing decision made by a bean-counter calculating lifetime TCO with zero brand loyalty. A more usable truck design might have made inroads into that vast fleet vehicle market, but this contraption is going to be pretty much restricted to people who use a pickup as a passenger vehicle, and those people as a rule are not likely to be Tesla fans.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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Found this interesting: Here's why the Tesla Cybertruck has its crazy look

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechCrunch

...the Cybertruck shares several key features with an unlikely pickup — the first-generation Honda Ridgeline.

Both the Cybertruck and Honda Ridgeline are built differently from standard pickups. They employ a unibody design, much like what’s used in most passenger vehicles. Instead of a body sitting on a frame, the Cybertruck and Ridgeline are built around what is essentially a metal cage. A unibody truck makes sense for Tesla, which doesn’t want a large, bulky frame under the body. Tesla wants batteries under the vehicle and uses the body to protect them.

Because of the unibody pickup design, the vehicle has to employ a key design element to enable high-capacity towing: a sail pillar.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:50 AM
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the old Jeep Comanche pickup was like this, as well as the full size Ford Transit van. no separate frame. The Comanche and Transit chassis-cab/cutaway don't seem to need extended sail pillar.

edit: and the 2nd-gen Ridgeline lacks it as well.

Last edited by jz78817; 11-23-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:55 AM
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Honestly, if I could get a loan for that, I would pick it up. The range is good enough for most anything I would use it for here, and the price is not wildly out of line with most trucks purchased around here. And I really like the look!

I don't follow much with electrical vehicles- does a Tesla require any special equipment for charging at home?
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I guess I don't understand who the market for this vehicle is. As far as consumer vehicles go, Pick up trucks are, on average, more likely to be owned by rural people who find environmentalism 'faggy' vs other vehicles like sedans or hatchbacks. Obviously not all are like that, but I mean who is his market supposed to be (I don't see the usual pickup truck market buying a $40k environmentally friendly concept car)?
About 50% of the market for pickups is fleet sales. Government agencies, big construction companies, etc. I could absolutely see them going after electric pickups with this price tag, especially given the lower maintenance cost for EVs.

But it certainly is....unique looking.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:09 PM
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About 50% of the market for pickups is fleet sales. Government agencies, big construction companies, etc. I could absolutely see them going after electric pickups with this price tag, especially given the lower maintenance cost for EVs.

But it certainly is....unique looking.
Big construction companies often buy chassis cab trucks and have upfitters install custom stuff like utility boxes, flat/stake beds, booms/buckets, etc. on them. Impossible to do with a design like the Cybertruck.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
The resident Tesla curmudgeon at Ars Technica, Jon Gitlin, seems to like it, which rather amuses me:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/11...la-cybertruck/
That article quotes another writer, "My opinion on whether the Cybertruck is ugly: aesthetic standards are arbitrary. Also it doesn't matter if your car is ugly because when you're driving it you can't see the outside." OK, aesthetic standards might be arbitrary, but pickups are utilitarian vehicles. More so than passenger cars. And this thing seems poorly designed for the work purposes of most pickups. Really, the Bollinger electric pickup (which has another thread devoted to it) is more useful, even if it's also ugly.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:43 PM
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Big construction companies often buy chassis cab trucks and have upfitters install custom stuff like utility boxes, flat/stake beds, booms/buckets, etc. on them.
They sure do, but they also buy plenty of ordinary pickups. That's a completely different category of vehicle.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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They sure do, but they also buy plenty of ordinary pickups. That's a completely different category of vehicle.
which might make this a hard sell what with an electric F-150 arriving at about the same time.
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:02 PM
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Totes. I think there is a market for electric pickups but most of em are probably gonna end up looking a lot like a F-150 looks today.
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:53 PM
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I think it’s pretty ugly, but I also know that styles change.
I remember the first time I saw the new BMW 300 series sports cars in 2000 or so - I laughed out loud! It looked like someone had kicked it in the ass.
But, that style soon became “normal,” and it didn’t look ridiculous anymore.
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Old 11-23-2019, 02:42 PM
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It's the new Pontiac Aztek!
I don't really get this comparison. Sure, the Aztek was ugly, too. But it was ugly in a generic, mundane, way--like if you took a normal car and gave it weird proportions, three different styling themes, and slapped a bunch of plastic on it. It's just ugly-ugly.

The Cybertruck is more like Brutalism. Probably most will still say it's ugly. But you can't accuse it of having no underlying design theme. Tesla decided on bare stainless and flat polygons, and we definitely got that, not something designed by committee. It also shares the "be true to your materials" theme with Brutalism.
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Old 11-23-2019, 02:52 PM
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i'm curious what leads you to that conclusion. The outer body panels being flat isn't evidence of that claim. what does the underlying structure look like? be kind of hard to build effective crumple zones with just flat pieces of metal.
Fair enough. Let's just say that they should be able to reduce the load on their stamping presses. There must be some mild steel internals for the crumple zones, though maybe they can oragami up a few of the less complicated ones.

Mass-wise--let's say it's roughly an ellipsoid, which has an area about half of the enclosing box. The truck is 5.9x1.9x2 m, or a 53.6 m^2 box, or a 26.8 m^2 ellipsoid. 3 mm steel makes 0.08 m^3 of stainless. 8000 kg/m^3 for stainless makes 640 kg for the body.

Well, that's not so bad, and wouldn't make it 10 tons by itself, even if the approximation is wrong by 2x. In principle, the monocoque construction should reduce the internal components needed by a lot. The bigass battery is going to dominate here.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:07 PM
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Body on frame allows for the endless commercial/industrial modifications of the ass end of the truck to something more utilitarian.
Right, but that's an advantage to the manufacturer and to fleet customers--not so much typical end users. I think it's very clear that Tesla isn't going after the center of the F-150 market. They may have decided that Ford is almost certainly going to do that on their own, and that even with a time advantage they wouldn't have much hope of catching up.

But a relatively simple truck that targets a few niche areas? Maybe they can succeed there. The market is big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsnak View Post
A more usable truck design might have made inroads into that vast fleet vehicle market, but this contraption is going to be pretty much restricted to people who use a pickup as a passenger vehicle, and those people as a rule are not likely to be Tesla fans.
It's not like there's zero overlap, though. There are definitely people that need a truck for practical needs but would also like an EV.

A friend of mine would be getting one if he was in the market. He drives a pickup for exactly one reason: hauling dirt bikes around. Side access is irrelevant, but the adjustable air bags and tailgate ramp would be handy. And he likes EVs in general, but there's nothing that would handle his application.

As far as commercial use goes, the 240v plugs in the bed are going to come in handy for a number of applications. Anyone currently hauling around a generator to power a worksite could use one of these. They haven't specced it out yet, but I'd bet that it supports 240v @ 50A. It could power a beefy welder all day with the big battery.

So who knows. I'd be shocked if they sold as many as 100k in a year. I think 25k is more likely. But that's probably enough if they kept development costs down (likely, since many of the components are reused from other vehicles).
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:37 PM
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I’d buy one precisely because of its looks. Now, my wife currently says that’s a hell no.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:14 PM
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I absolutely love the way it looks. But the cool looking sloped bed negates any 5th wheel towing (I think).

I like the concept of EVs and really want one, but the range (and tow capacity) is still not there for me. I realize I'm not the market for this particular one, but I still think it's a fantastic idea. The apparently large number of deposits doesn't surprise me in the least.

Does anyone know if he classifies this as a half-ton? three-quarter? Didn't see that in the specs.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:33 PM
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That depends on the GVWR, and until they say what it is who knows.
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:06 PM
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So much for letting Homer Musk design it.
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:36 PM
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Ugliest thing I've ever seen. Doesn't even look like a pickup, and I hate pickups, so if it looked like one, I might hate it even more. I trust that makes my opinion clear!

P.S.- I always thought the Model S was quite elegant, but it's starting to get a little long in the tooth. Probably it or its successor needs a revamp.
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:52 PM
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I haven't been able to find good pictures that show what the bed is like, especially in terms of how the design affects anything practically.

Isn't a shape like that bad for aerodynamism? Is it well-suited ergonomically? Is it Musk mainly proving that he can do something out-of-the-ordinary-to-the-point-of-being-weird and have it be successful anyway? I can see how that would appeal to him.
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:54 PM
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Earlier today, I read somewhere there were 200,000-300,000 reservations. This was based on the reservation numbers given out. Someone apparently figured out what part of it was the sequence number.

My take: First reaction, like most everyone, I thought it ugly. Second reaction, I looked at the specs and some of the videos of people taking a ride and other things. Hey, if I were in the market for a new vehicle, it'd go on my list. Probably wouldn't be my final selection, but not rejected outright.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:08 PM
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Earlier today, I read somewhere there were 200,000-300,000 reservations. This was based on the reservation numbers given out. Someone apparently figured out what part of it was the sequence number.

My take: First reaction, like most everyone, I thought it ugly. Second reaction, I looked at the specs and some of the videos of people taking a ride and other things. Hey, if I were in the market for a new vehicle, it'd go on my list. Probably wouldn't be my final selection, but not rejected outright.
Reservations on this are $100. That’s so low risk as to be trivial.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:11 PM
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I kind of suspect that Tesla likes Ford, and did this merely to take away the bad press that the Mustang name for the Mustang Mach-E is getting.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:13 PM
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I haven't been able to find good pictures that show what the bed is like, especially in terms of how the design affects anything practically.
The main negative appears to be the high sides. But that's kinda crucial to get any kind of aerodynamics out of it. Trucks are not great in this regard.

Aside from that, it appears to be reasonable. It has a 6.5' bed, which is pretty average these days with crew cabs. The air suspension allows the tail to squat, for ease in loading a dirt bike or ATV. It also has a built in ramp. It has a roll-down cover. There are no wheelwell cutouts.

So, applications involving loading stuff from the sides looks to be out, but aside from that it looks pretty typical.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:20 PM
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As far as consumer vehicles go, Pick up trucks are, on average, more likely to be owned by rural people who find environmentalism 'faggy' vs other vehicles...
I think "rugged," "reliable," and "usable" outweigh "faggy". There's a reason Subaru Outbacks infest the mountains, plains, and deserts I've traversed. I'll know EVs are mainstream when eOutbacks arrive.

The Cybertruck will show acceptance when it grows campershells.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:59 PM
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...When an F-117 and a pickup truck love each other *very much*….
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:08 PM
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...When an F-117 and a pickup truck love each other *very much*….
Looks more like it was a hate-fuck.

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Old 11-23-2019, 09:52 PM
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I don't really get this comparison. Sure, the Aztek was ugly, too.
Both are two of the ugliest vehicles ever made, & just like the Aztek lovers club, I'm sure I'm sure there will be a small subset of the population that loves it.

There's also there's some similarity between their profile in side view. Sure, the Aztek was flatter on top but it had a slope up in the front & slope down in the back.
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:12 PM
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After watching the intro, I have the following observations...

Tesla fans seem more cult-like (especially in the beginning) than even the most rabid Apple fanatic (I'm a mac TECHNICIAN, I fix the things, but i'm not a cultist)

does it seem like the guy doing the sledgehammer demo was kinda' pulling his hits on the CT?, it also seemed like he really didn't get a good first couple hits on the F-150 door (also, was that the door from an aluminum F-150, or is it just the truck bed that's aluminum on those)

Speaking of Aluminum... the "transparent metal" glass, ?Transparent Aluminum perhaps? is it possible Elon has a time machine and he was able to employ Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott?

The ball drop test was inconclusive, a sheet of Lexan/Polycarbonate would react the same way the "glass" did in the demo, how do we know they were truly using "Transparent Aluminum" and not a sheet of polycarb/Lexan?

The "Ball Test" on the CT was *hilarious*, I was fully expecting it to do exactly what it did, I was also wondering why they would want to risk the ball ricocheting off the glass and potentially into the audience, all the energy in the throw would have to be redirected somewhere if it was truly impact resistant, I loved how that little mess up kinda' took the wind out of the sails there...

I was pretty 'Meh about the whole truck thing, yes it's cool and impressive, but it's also seriously overhyped right now

I loved the "one last thing" reference, seems that Tesla fans and Apple fans have a lot of commonalities...

I was actually *MORE* interested in the Tesla Quad than the truck, Elon, forget the ugly truck, go after the ATV market!
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  #40  
Old 11-23-2019, 10:19 PM
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Speaking of Aluminum... the "transparent metal" glass, ?Transparent Aluminum perhaps? is it possible Elon has a time machine and he was able to employ Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott?
Sorta transparent aluminum.
Quote:
Aluminium oxynitride or ALON is a ceramic composed of aluminium, oxygen and nitrogen. It is marketed under the name ALON by Surmet Corporation.[3] ALON is optically transparent (≥80%) in the near-ultraviolet, visible and midwave-infrared regions of the electromagnetic spectrum.
  #41  
Old 11-24-2019, 12:26 AM
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I'm surprised Tesla hasn't come out with a motorcycle yet, if that was priced affordably I'm sure a lot of people would kill to have one.
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  #42  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:20 AM
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This Tesla pickup truck is either an elaborate joke of some kind or the next New Coke.
  #43  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:25 AM
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I'm surprised Tesla hasn't come out with a motorcycle yet, if that was priced affordably I'm sure a lot of people would kill to have one.
Musk has said he'll never do a motorcycle--he almost died on one while young and has had an aversion to them ever since. The ATV appears to be happening, though.
  #44  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:27 AM
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Reservations on this are $100. That’s so low risk as to be trivial.
Yes, and it's refundable. So some people1 are going to say that most of those are going to cancel before the trucks are delivered. But they said the same about the Model 3 yet it turned out that the vast majority of those orders stuck it out and got their car. So it's hard to say with the Tesla cult. My guess is most will stick with their orders.

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I'm surprised Tesla hasn't come out with a motorcycle yet, if that was priced affordably I'm sure a lot of people would kill to have one.
Word is that Elon doesn't like motorbikes. That 4-wheel e-ATV (optional with the Cybertruck) is probably the closest they'll ever get to one. But really, there must be at least a couple dozen electric motorcycles on the market or close to it. Why jump into such a crowded market?



1 All those people that are always claiming the Tesla is one step from declaring bankruptcy. Ignore those people. They have big bets that Tesla is going broke, so it's in their interest to make it look like the company is doing poorly.
  #45  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:32 AM
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I'm surprised Tesla hasn't come out with a motorcycle yet, if that was priced affordably I'm sure a lot of people would kill to have one.
They're going to sell an electric ATV to go with the truck.
  #46  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:33 AM
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i'm curious what leads you to that conclusion. The outer body panels being flat isn't evidence of that claim.
This is pretty interesting. I don't recommend actually watching the video unless you like to hear two old dudes ramble on for a couple of hours, but someone did a partial transcript. And apparently, this idea has been around for a long time but no one's had the guts to do it yet:
Quote:
Richard’s first impression was the outer skin, the XY design and stainless steel which eliminated paint.

“This is something that’s been kicked around, and you’ve heard conversations for 20 or 30 years”

“They always talked about if they made something out of sheeting, they wouldn’t have the molding, forming, stamping machines etc.. Those things get out of variance fairly quick, so you have a huge (tooling? towing?) cost”

“This truck has a huge (tooling? towing?) advantage”

“Several observers were kinda tongue-in-cheek calling it an origami design, which is not far off. This idea is not original, but no one has had the balls to do it”

“It’s called the XY design”

“You get a huge sheet of stainless steel, and score it (draw out the design), then cut out the corners and edges with a laser cutter or water jet”

“What he’s done is taken a 3mm sheet of 301 stainless steel, which he would have you believe was specially designed for spacex - not quite”

“301 is about 17% chromium, about 7% nickel, maybe 2% manganese, a little silicon mixed in, about 1% with steel”

“It comes in 4 basic hardness - quarter hard, half hard, 3 quarters hard, and full hard, and this is a function of how it is annealed in the process of forming it, and the cold rolled process is how they get full hard”

“I suspect the spacex and this might be some sort of super pressure cold rolled where they get it even harder than what the full hard would imply”

“So you lay it out flat, score it flat and cut it flat, and you do fold it up sort of like origami, and then you weld it”

“They do use 301 stainless for aircraft, but also subway cars, and even appliances”

“The reason this has been kicked around for so long is it eliminates stamping machines. It lends itself very well to robot laser assembly on the line. You basically take one or two sheets and fold them up into a truck, which is a huge cost savings”

Richard: “I think that’s probably what detroit is talking about today”

“No one has ever pulled the trigger because it winds up looking like japanese origami, and then drilling a hole in 301 stainless is a hard day’s work”

“So you vastly reduce the work and equipment required to assemble the truck, and no paint shop required”
Never heard about this "XY design", but it's not a surprise that this isn't really a new idea.
  #47  
Old 11-24-2019, 06:12 AM
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So I've been wondering how much of this design isn't really just cleverly dressing up making a virtue out of necessity. There isn't time/budget/expertise to do anything fancy with regards to design, so they went with flat pieces of metal stuck together, and are now dressing it up as some kind of 'retro-futurist' design commitment. (After all, one suspects that many of the futurist designs of past movies are similarly influenced by having to stay on a budget and nevertheless coming up with something 'different'.) I've wondered the same about the Starship.
  #48  
Old 11-24-2019, 06:32 AM
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The whole narrative of “simple to assemble” is a canard until someone actually sees any detail of the body design. Just because the outer surfaces are flat doesn’t mean there are no stampings. They aren’t just going to be butt welding flat sheets of stainless together; the edges of panels are going to have to have some sort of interfacing features stamped in so they can locate to other panels with some semblance of consistency. And as far as dumb crap like 3mm thick outer body panels and “armor” glass no one is asking for, well, if that’s what they think is important.

I really hope this is just a concept vehicle. ‘Cos it looks like something Elon cooked up because he still believes his fantasy of living on Mars, and his stans are just far too credulous.
  #49  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:57 AM
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Based on my intellectual capacity and my vast knowledge, tactically and tentatively, right from the beginning of times especially in the light of Ecclesiastes Devolution, I have come to a concrete, definite and profound conclusion that I have nothing to say about this oddly polygonal pickup truck.

Last edited by MaverocK; 11-24-2019 at 08:59 AM.
  #50  
Old 11-24-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post
The whole narrative of “simple to assemble” is a canard until someone actually sees any detail of the body design. Just because the outer surfaces are flat doesn’t mean there are no stampings. They aren’t just going to be butt welding flat sheets of stainless together; the edges of panels are going to have to have some sort of interfacing features stamped in so they can locate to other panels with some semblance of consistency. And as far as dumb crap like 3mm thick outer body panels and “armor” glass no one is asking for, well, if that’s what they think is important.

I really hope this is just a concept vehicle. ‘Cos it looks like something Elon cooked up because he still believes his fantasy of living on Mars, and his stans are just far too credulous.
100%. Saying "then you fold it up like origami" sorta glosses over the fact that you need a giant hydraulic machine to "fold up" 3mm stainless. And if you're doing a bunch of panels like, say, a big assembly line to mass produce trucks, you'll want some jigs to hold your panels while you fold them up. And the jigs need to be real sturdy. Like, as sturdy as stamping dies. And then you can take a negative jig and press the panel in between the first jig and.... oh, we're just stamping panels, aren't we.

I've read the stainless is a bitch to stamp, especially 3mm thick stainless, which is why the Delorean had simple stamping dies and likely why the design of this is so angular. But, and I cannot stress this enough, this is not a money saving endeavor. Every automaker on the planet can crank out stamped steal panels, have them painted, and slap them on a $18,000 vehicle while still making a profit. Any problem caused by using 3mm stainless that needed an angular design to be solved could also have been solved at much less expense but just not using a stupid material for the body skin in the first place. Nobody needs their vehicle skin to take an impact with a sledgehammer.
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