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  #251  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:22 AM
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Maybe we should stop assuming that the guy who hedged for like a page on whether or not Heather Hayes was responsible for her own murder at the hand of neo-nazis has anything of value to say
Sadly, there are enough Dopers for whom that behavior would not be particularly out of character that I'm not sure whom you're referring to by this.
  #252  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:23 AM
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An Antifa guy tried blocking someone’s car, smacks the car with a bat or pipe. It did not end well for him.

https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/201...ell-seriously/
Redstate.Com again. My, oh my; it is to pity.
Attacked by car, antifa responds aggressively. My; what a scandal!

Redstate.Com — I can't get over the irony of the citation!


Are you and your ilk even vaguely self-aware? Your leader has called for right-wingers to be violent and you get constipated over one antifa??? My.

I know the right-wing and white nationalists hate a lot more types than just Muslims, but one Googles as one can:

Here's a list of Islamophobic incidents in the U.S.:
Quote:
... Shooting ...
... Shooting ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Arson ...
... Burning Qur'ans ...
... Stabbing ...
... Attempted car bombing ...
... Melee attack ...
... Shooting ...
... Vehicular attack ...
... Shooting ...
... Attempted attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Shooting ...
... Melee attack ...
... Shooting ...
... Shooting ...
... Stabbing ...
... Arson ...
... Attempted car bombing ...
... Vandalism ...
... Melee attack ...
... Vandalism ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Stabbing ...
... Vandalism ...
... Melee attack ...
... Vandalism ...
... Vandalism, attempted arson ...
... Melee attack ...
... Vandalism ...
... Vandalism ...
... Shooting ...
... Shooting ...
... Melee attack ...
... Attempted arson ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack, stabbing ...
... Melee attack, stabbing ...
... Bombing ...
... Melee attack ...
... Melee attack ...
... Arson ...
... Vehicular attack ...
But as long as your ilk has petite Yvette Falarca pushing a neo-Nazi to point to, you're happy with "Tu quoque. You too!"

Right-wing hypocrisy makes me sick.

And ... Redstate.Com No; I guess you really aren't even self-aware.
  #253  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:24 AM
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Sadly, there are enough Dopers for whom that behavior would not be particularly out of character that I'm not sure whom you're referring to by this.
Well it applies to all of 'em, so...
  #254  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:19 AM
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Maybe we should stop assuming that the guy who hedged for like a page on whether or not Heather Hayes was responsible for her own murder at the hand of neo-nazis has anything of value to say on...

...anything. At all. Seriously, just stop responding to him. He's a fucking tool and the sooner everyone stops reading and quoting what he says, the better.
Can we still laugh at/mock him?
  #255  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...you don't even know what fucking side I'm on. You don't fucking get it.



Is the video real? Was is staged? Was it an attempt at a viral prank? Russian propaganda? Road rage? An actual real protest? Where was it filmed? Who filmed it? What city?



No we fucking don't. We know nothing about the video except what the original twitter poster claimed (that it was Extinction Rebellion/Antifa) and what Red State speculated ("This is likely just a regular, Antifa anti-capitalist")

That is all we KNOW. Until you can show the provenance of the video all that it is is a video. It shows and demonstrates nothing.
What are we discussing? Are we discussing a video? What we aren't discussing is the validity of the video. I made no mention of Antifa. I mentioned what the threshold for "should face criminal charges" was.

Which you still haven't met.
  #256  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
If the pedestrian had instead been in a car and had blocked the road, should the other guy have used his vehicle to ram the car and push it out of the way?
What if it had been a tank. He wouldn't have hit it then! What if it was an airplane?
What if it was a squirrel?

We aren't talking about what ifs.
  #257  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:32 AM
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No, you don't. You really, really don't. For all we know this could have been performance art with all sides in on it and either Jaime Kennedy or Ashton Kutcher sliding their smarmy asses on out from the sidelines after yelling "cut".


Show me a name. Show me a police report. Show me Verifiable Facts or get lost.
Again. The entire discussion revolves around this video. We are discussing THIS video.
  #258  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:49 AM
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Again. The entire discussion revolves around this video. We are discussing THIS video.
We talked about the video. Unless you can come up with more factual information about that video, it is more interesting to talk about your obsessive need to latch onto dubious ficts to support your beliefs.
  #259  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:00 AM
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Can we still laugh at/mock him?
I just don't see the point, because he's looking for a reaction. Mocking is a reaction. Silence is not.
  #260  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:06 AM
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I just don't see the point, because he's looking for a reaction. Mocking is a reaction. Silence is not.
Fair enough. But many people "looking for a reaction" get angry when you simply point and laugh at them instead.
  #261  
Old 11-27-2019, 09:37 AM
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What if it had been a tank. He wouldn't have hit it then! What if it was an airplane?
What if it was a squirrel?

We aren't talking about what ifs.
If someone in a car/on a motorbike/bicycle blocked the path of another vehicle for less than two seconds, I think any reasonable person would conclude that the driver in the blocked vehicle would not have the right to drive into the car/motorbike/bicycle in order to push it out of the way. I think any reasonable person would think this course of action unjustifiable and more than a bit crazy*. Why is it different if the person is not in a vehicle, but rather on foot?

From the video, the person "blocking the road" for the longest period of time is the driver, who isn't even in his vehicle at the start of the video, while it sits driverless in the middle of the road.

* I would consider it unjustifiable to drive a vehicle into and push a pedestrian backwards for several yards in any circumstances, unless in clear physical danger from that person, but we are talking about this video in which the path of the vehicle is blocked for less than two seconds. From the video, there is no indication that the driver is in clear and imminent danger of physical harm.
  #262  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:00 AM
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If he felt threatened, it seems a bit silly to get out of the car, doesn't it?
No. Already discussed this. It's a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that.
  #263  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:02 AM
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No. Already discussed this. It's a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that.
If you get out of your car, seems like a tactical error not to immediately run away.
  #264  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
If someone in a car/on a motorbike/bicycle blocked the path of another vehicle for less than two seconds, I think any reasonable person would conclude that the driver in the blocked vehicle would not have the right to drive into the car/motorbike/bicycle in order to push it out of the way. I think any reasonable person would think this course of action unjustifiable and more than a bit crazy*. Why is it different if the person is not in a vehicle, but rather on foot?

From the video, the person "blocking the road" for the longest period of time is the driver, who isn't even in his vehicle at the start of the video, while it sits driverless in the middle of the road.

* I would consider it unjustifiable to drive a vehicle into and push a pedestrian backwards for several yards in any circumstances, unless in clear physical danger from that person, but we are talking about this video in which the path of the vehicle is blocked for less than two seconds. From the video, there is no indication that the driver is in clear and imminent danger of physical harm.
Woah,woah,woah... The pedestrian was clearly blocking the drivers Constitutional Right to Liberty of Movement on a Public Roadway. Also, he was being very scary with the mask and stick. Of course you barge at him with your 4500lb vehicle and provoke him further. In doing so, you become fully justified in getting out of your car and beating the snot out of him. Which he had coming, no doubt. But you must make sure to provoke him first, so you can stand your ground after.
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  #265  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:14 AM
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No. Already discussed this. It's a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that.
He was really scary with his white little backpack. Full of gluten free snacks and smart water, no doubt. Might have even had some nuts in there. People with allergies can't take any chances.

What does your tactical theory say about diffusing a situation rather than taking aggressive action to make it worse?
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  #266  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:22 AM
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No. Already discussed this. It's a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that.
On a scale from one to ten, how incredibly, debilitatingly paranoid are you on a day-to-day basis?
  #267  
Old 11-27-2019, 10:23 AM
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Again. The entire discussion revolves around this video. We are discussing THIS video.

This video... is inconclusive.
  #268  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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We talked about the video. Unless you can come up with more factual information about that video, it is more interesting to talk about your obsessive need to latch onto dubious ficts to support your beliefs.
I perceive someone wearing a mask while yelling at me and blocking my way as a threat. That's a fact.

Regardless of the circumstances behind the video this is how such behavior will be viewed by many people. When discussing this in legal context it's judged from the perspective of "the average man".

there are 2 different discussions going on and they're getting interwoven in this thread. One is an internet trial of the video. The other is human behavior. You can't use the argument that there is not enough information in the video against a discussion of how people react in a confrontation. I plead guilty of the reverse.

So to be clear, as a theoretical point, what the masked person did appears threatening regardless of the events leading up to it. The driver may have just run over his favorite parrot and thus triggered the sudden need to put on a mask and act crazy.

Last edited by Magiver; 11-27-2019 at 11:10 AM.
  #269  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:10 AM
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I perceive someone wearing a mask while yelling at me and blocking my way as a threat. That's a fact.

Regardless of the circumstances behind the video this is how such behavior will be viewed.

there are 2 different discussions going on and they're getting interwoven in this thread. One is an internet trial of the video. The other is human behavior. You can't use the argument that there is not enough information in the video against a discussion of how people react in a confrontation. I plead guilty of the reverse.

So to be clear, as a theoretical point, what the masked person did appears threatening regardless of the events leading up to it. The driver may have just run over his favorite parrot and thus triggered the sudden need to put on a mask and act crazy.
What a vivid imagination. You should write fan fiction.
  #270  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:15 AM
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On a scale from one to ten, how incredibly, debilitatingly paranoid are you on a day-to-day basis?
I don't know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten?
  #271  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:16 AM
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It really does seem like conservatives are incredibly paranoid about everything, doesn't it?
  #272  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:18 AM
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Do you really not understand the difference between the claims "This is a deliberate effort to encourage the attitude that violently assaulting protestors blocking traffic is normal and reasonable, in order to exert a repressive effect on acts of civil protest", and "I personally am presently being repressed"?

Or was that just a consciously desperate attempt at further goalpost-shifting?
No. I have no problem with people peacefully and legally protesting on the sidewalk or in a park. Stay off the roads unless you have permit. Definitely keep your hands off of people and their property.

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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Maybe we should stop assuming that the guy who hedged for like a page on whether or not Heather Hayes was responsible for her own murder at the hand of neo-nazis has anything of value to say on...

...anything. At all. Seriously, just stop responding to him. He's a fucking tool and the sooner everyone stops reading and quoting what he says, the better.
I’m not sure you’re in a position to lecture on morality.

Last edited by octopus; 11-27-2019 at 11:19 AM.
  #273  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:18 AM
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What a vivid imagination. You should write fan fiction.
how so? What's highly imaginative about it? Did I imagine the mask? It looked like he was yelling at the driver. Be specific.

Last edited by Magiver; 11-27-2019 at 11:20 AM.
  #274  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:21 AM
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I don't know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten?
From inside a 4500 lb battering ram, I see a harmless nut.
ETA:Which direction does the scale run?

Last edited by running coach; 11-27-2019 at 11:21 AM.
  #275  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:21 AM
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Redstate.Com again. My, oh my; it is to pity.
Attacked by car, antifa responds aggressively. My; what a scandal!

Redstate.Com — I can't get over the irony of the citation!


Are you and your ilk even vaguely self-aware? Your leader has called for right-wingers to be violent and you get constipated over one antifa??? My.

I know the right-wing and white nationalists hate a lot more types than just Muslims, but one Googles as one can:

Here's a list of Islamophobic incidents in the U.S.:


But as long as your ilk has petite Yvette Falarca pushing a neo-Nazi to point to, you're happy with "Tu quoque. You too!"

Right-wing hypocrisy makes me sick.

And ... Redstate.Com No; I guess you really aren't even self-aware.
I notice you were careful enough to clarify that it is specifically right wing hypocrisy that makes you sick. A bit of honesty! So rare.
  #276  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:22 AM
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I don't know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten?
It happens so rarely that it's usually quite dependent on context. Of which we have none we can trust (a random polish neo-nazi on Twitter and a right-wing propaganda blog that makes its headline up out of whole cloth). Everything else is pretty much fan fiction.

But y'know what I wouldn't do in most circumstances? Escalate. I wouldn't try to run them over, provoke them, or get out of the car and try to beat the shit out of them. That'd be stupid, pointless, and only raise the odds that someone gets hurt. It's this bizarre chest-fluffing "warrior" mentality that we really need to stop teaching to our cops that I just don't get.
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  #277  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:25 AM
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I look at that little video as a rightwing Rorschach Test, where they project like a motherfucker, half taking what is there and twisting it and half seeing what isn't really there at all.
Is there a word that means both "pathetic" and "entertaining"?
  #278  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:28 AM
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I notice you were careful enough to clarify that it is specifically right wing hypocrisy that makes you sick. A bit of honesty! So rare.
I notice that you were duplicitous enough to insert the word "specifically" where it never existed before. How...boringly predictable.
  #279  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:38 AM
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From inside a 4500 lb battering ram, I see a harmless nut.
ETA:Which direction does the scale run?
OK, you admitted he appears crazy. Now explain how you were able to ascertain he was harmless? Because we just had a crazy person, a left wing wackjob, kill 8 people. His politics aren't the issue but his mental state is. If you have a skill the rest of us don't have then tell me how you know a person wearing a mask while blocking someone and yelling hat them is harmless. I would genuinely like to know.

As for the 4500 lb battering ram the driver didn't run over the masked person. He slowly inched a screaming masked loon back. He didn't hurt him but used a minimal amount of force to back him up. It's literally comparable to my personal example posted earlier of a large muscled man getting into my face. I shoulder butted him back. This was this minimum amount of force needed to maintain my safety because I had no way of knowing how fucked up the guy was.
  #280  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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Watching you try to justify vehicular assault isn't a bad way to spend my morning. Please continue.
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  #281  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:53 AM
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It happens so rarely that it's usually quite dependent on context.
that's not an answer to the question I asked. If you can explain the context of crazy that would be helpful. Either you find a screaming masked person blocking your path a potential threat or you don't.

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But y'know what I wouldn't do in most circumstances? Escalate. I wouldn't try to run them over, provoke them, or get out of the car and try to beat the shit out of them. That'd be stupid, pointless, and only raise the odds that someone gets hurt. It's this bizarre chest-fluffing "warrior" mentality that we really need to stop teaching to our cops that I just don't get.
what I wouldn't do in ALL cases is wear a mask and scream at someone while blocking their path. That IS the escalation. As for the driver in the video he didn't try to run him over. So he's with you on that.
  #282  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:55 AM
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OK, you admitted he appears crazy. Now explain how you were able to ascertain he was harmless? Because we just had a crazy person, a left wing wackjob, kill 8 people. His politics aren't the issue but his mental state is. If you have a skill the rest of us don't have then tell me how you know a person wearing a mask while blocking someone and yelling hat them is harmless. I would genuinely like to know.

As for the 4500 lb battering ram the driver didn't run over the masked person. He slowly inched a screaming masked loon back. He didn't hurt him but used a minimal amount of force to back him up. It's literally comparable to my personal example posted earlier of a large muscled man getting into my face. I shoulder butted him back. This was this minimum amount of force needed to maintain my safety because I had no way of knowing how fucked up the guy was.
A search of recent killings of 8 people turned up nothing of a political bent. Link?

The truck owner got in his truck without interference. All he had to do was drive away and call the police.
The raving lunatic took no action until he was struck by the right wing vigilante. I can hyperbole as well as you can.
  #283  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:03 PM
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I don't know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten?
Less than zero. Seriously, you're in a vehicle. Drive the fuck away.
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  #284  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:04 PM
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Less than zero. Seriously, you're in a vehicle. Drive the fuck away.
He's blocking your forward movement. Explain how you know he isn't armed given his erratic behavior.
  #285  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:08 PM
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He's blocking your forward movement. Explain how you know he isn't armed given his erratic behavior.
Explain how we know you aren't a blithering idiot.
  #286  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:17 PM
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  #287  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:19 PM
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A search of recent killings of 8 people turned up nothing of a political bent. Link?
sorry, 9, I left out his sister. Link. Now explain why you think his political affiliation is important.

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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
The truck owner got in his truck without interference. All he had to do was drive away and call the police.
The raving lunatic took no action until he was struck by the right wing vigilante. I can hyperbole as well as you can.
I specifically said his politics weren't the issue. I only inserted it as an example of the narrative of this thread.

I missed the proof of the truck driver's political affiliations and I haven't tried to tar and feather the masked man as a liberal. It has no bearing on the issue even though it appears liberals are trying to make it political.
  #288  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:20 PM
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Explain how we know you aren't a blithering idiot.
Well for starters I haven't been attacking posters with insults.
  #289  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:20 PM
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He's blocking your forward movement. Explain how you know he isn't armed given his erratic behavior.
Yeah, a True American wouldn't use the (R)etreat position in the gear shift.
  #290  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:26 PM
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Because we just had a crazy person, a left wing wackjob, kill 8 people. His politics aren't the issue but his mental state is.
I saw the link you later provided. If his politics weren't the issue why did you outright lie about his political affiliation?
  #291  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:30 PM
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Yeah, a True American wouldn't use the (R)etreat position in the gear shift.
Well most Americans know that a screaming masked man blocking them is acting irrationally.. Nobody has answered the question as to how they are able to ascertain he is unarmed.
  #292  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:32 PM
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I saw the link you later provided. If his politics weren't the issue why did you outright lie about his political affiliation?
what are you talking about? from my cite: In addition, a Twitter account that appears to belong to Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters.

And the point is that he was a wack job.

Last edited by Magiver; 11-27-2019 at 12:33 PM.
  #293  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
He slowly inched a screaming masked loon back.
There is no evidence from the video that the footperson is screaming at the driver. Or that he is a "loon".
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
He didn't hurt him but used a minimal amount of force to back him up.
I disagree. The driver offered no warning to the footperson that he was about to advance his vehicle, such as through use of the horn. He got into his vehicle and immediately drove into the footperson. He gave footperson no opportunity to get out of the way. Instead, he pushed him with his vehicle at a speed such that the footperson could only walk backwards (i.e. not to the side), lest he get pushed over by the vehicle.
  #294  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:43 PM
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what are you talking about? from my cite: In addition, a Twitter account that appears to belong to Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters.

And the point is that he was a wack job.
He was also very anti-immigrant.
The point is that you thought you could slip one by, and you failed. If you really just wanted to point out that he was a "wack job", you could have just called him a "wack job".
  #295  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:52 PM
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He was also very anti-immigrant.
The point is that you thought you could slip one by, and you failed. If you really just wanted to point out that he was a "wack job", you could have just called him a "wack job".
Sorry no, he was an antifa supporter. Prior to the massacre he had recently shown up to confront the KKK when they were in town. He was absolutely a left winger.

The whole point of listing it was to show how it looks when people in this thread inject politics into it. That just sailed over your head even when I specifically pointed out that politics wasn't the issue.
  #296  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:55 PM
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Sorry no, he was an antifa supporter. Prior to the massacre he had recently shown up to confront the KKK when they were in town. He was absolutely a left winger.

The whole point of listing it was to show how it looks when people in this thread inject politics into it. That just sailed over your head even when I specifically pointed out that politics wasn't the issue.
So...you are saying that right-wingers do not confront the KKK?
  #297  
Old 11-27-2019, 12:56 PM
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The whole point of listing it was to show how it looks when people in this thread inject politics into it. That just sailed over your head even when I specifically pointed out that politics wasn't the issue.
I remind you of the title of the thread:

This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering
  #298  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:11 PM
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There is no evidence from the video that the footperson is screaming at the driver. Or that he is a "loon".
You can hear him in the video. And we'll just have to disagree on his behavior.

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Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
I disagree. The driver offered no warning to the footperson that he was about to advance his vehicle, such as through use of the horn. He got into his vehicle and immediately drove into the footperson. He gave footperson no opportunity to get out of the way. Instead, he pushed him with his vehicle at a speed such that the footperson could only walk backwards (i.e. not to the side), lest he get pushed over by the vehicle.
He wasn't rooted to the spot. The person had every opportunity to get out of the way. And he went to the side of the vehicle so clearly he wasn't pushed over by it.
  #299  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:27 PM
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You can hear him in the video.
I disagree. I have listened to the video through studio-quality headphones. There is no compelling evidence that the low-audibility voices at the beginning of the video are coming from the footperson or the driver.
Quote:
And he went to the side of the vehicle so clearly he wasn't pushed over by it.
The reason footperson ended up at the side of the vehicle is because the vehicle is moving in a curve to the right, not because footperson was able to maneuver himself out of the way.
  #300  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:28 PM
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So...you are saying that right-wingers do not confront the KKK?
No. Are you saying left wingers don't object to illegal immigrants?

the person in question posted against ICE agents and retweeted antifa material. His politics were to the left. But somehow you don't have the capacity to understand it doesn't matter and will argue this point for the sake of arguing.

But by all means, continue to argue with someone who lives in the city it took place in and frequented the bar district he shot up. I've followed it closely because it literally struck close to home.

I mentioned it to show you how pointless it is to the argument. And yet here you are, trying to prove a leftist wack job was really not a leftist. He was. it doesn't matter. get over it.
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